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Author Topic: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play  (Read 310 times)

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BlastFurnace

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Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« on: October 02, 2018, 09:42:04 am »
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Hi all,

Has anyone ever tried to sell fan made expansions. What's Vaccarino's thoughts on this. IE creating clearly unauthorised sets but with the same card backs, perhaps even paying some licensing fee.

Secondly has there ever been suggestions of putting the fan made expansions on one of the online portals or creating an online portal capable of having fan made cards.

Sorry if these questions have been asked before.

Thanks for your time.
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ben_king

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 10:33:07 am »
+1

You're likely to run into trouble with this.  Donald X. and Rio Grande Games typically don't mind if you make these sorts of things for your own entertainment, but if you were to try to monetize them, I'd imagine things would be quite different.  It's in Rio Grande's best interest to ensure that its customers can clearly tell the difference between its own thoroughly tested and quality-controlled products and completely unverified fan products.  You could ask about a licensing fee, but don't hold your breath.

Online Dominion implementations other than the official one have been shut down.  If you wanted to make your own online version, it would need to avoid any copyright infringement. This includes, art, card text, card names, etc.  So don't plan on having any official cards available on the platform.  And even Estate, Duchy, Silver, Gold, etc. would probably need to be called something different with different art.  The platform you're building now is not sounding very much like Dominion anymore (at least to me).

But if you wanted to do any of these for your own personal, non-commercial enjoyment, those projects have typically been allowed.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 11:57:22 am »
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Ben is quite right about monetising your fan expansions, but if you're looking to play them online, may I suggest Tabletop Simulator? It's a physics sandbox so it's a little clunky, but it makes it pretty easy to play games online with fan cards. I've done a game or two before with Asper and Co0kiel0rd. I'm pretty sure you can even upload your fan expansion to the workshop if you want to.
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BlastFurnace

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2018, 11:07:49 am »
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Thanks both.

Theta, do you enjoy it enough that you would actually play it on there? If not surely you can see there is a huge resource in creativity and design just crying out to be simply represented on the web?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2018, 12:49:51 pm »
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Theta, do you enjoy it enough that you would actually play it on there? If not surely you can see there is a huge resource in creativity and design just crying out to be simply represented on the web?

It's pretty fun? There isn't any real other option, so it's hard to compare. Another avenue for fan cards would be nice, and some kind of implementation on ShIT would be phenomenal, but that's really unlikely.
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BlastFurnace

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2018, 03:40:18 pm »
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I mean how unlikely is it actually, if everyone on here would pay anything like what they pay for SI then you could easily afford it. There is a certain ethical issue I that genuinely concerns me - that I don't want to screw over a game I like, but since loads of games are dominion rip offs anyway, I don't see that this would be that different, except that it would have room for everyone's created cards.

I certainly think there is scope.
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2018, 12:00:20 am »
+1

As soon as Renaissance ships so I can see the whole card list, I'll be printing my fan expansion (I'll report back how satisfied I am) and a version will appear on TTS.
That said I won't be pursuing a license (I think DXV has been clear on that) and I certainly don't want to chain the rest of my life to attempting to sell it. It's taken far to much of my life already in the past two years! If I wanted to sell board games for a living (which, honestly, I kinda do) I'd prefer to have invented them myself and also prefer that I don't get sued.
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BlastFurnace

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2018, 02:44:39 am »
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Though there surely ought to be some middle ground. The concepts of gold siver copper buys actions cards 1vp 3vp 6vp are present in many games and uncopyrightable. There should be some good electronic forum for your personal set. Right?

I get the objection "we don't want to". But I struggle to beleive "it's impossivble"
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Chris is me

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2018, 06:21:38 am »
+1

Though there surely ought to be some middle ground. The concepts of gold siver copper buys actions cards 1vp 3vp 6vp are present in many games and uncopyrightable. There should be some good electronic forum for your personal set. Right?

I get the objection "we don't want to". But I struggle to beleive "it's impossivble"

That they are present in many games doesn't make them "uncopyrightable" - you do realize all of these other games copied Dominion, right? Not saying they are definitely subject to copyright either, but I don't think anyone here is interested in exploring the limits of a legally safe Dominion knockoff. We know the people that make it and it's kinda rude.

You alluded to this point above, and then decided it was okay because a lot of other people were doing it. What does that have to do with the morality of knocking off this game? It just means some other people aren't ascribing to that moral value, it doesn't actually make anything okay.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 06:22:56 am by Chris is me »
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BlastFurnace

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Re: Printing Fan Made Expansions and Online Play
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2018, 06:38:12 am »
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Though there surely ought to be some middle ground. The concepts of gold siver copper buys actions cards 1vp 3vp 6vp are present in many games and uncopyrightable. There should be some good electronic forum for your personal set. Right?

I get the objection "we don't want to". But I struggle to beleive "it's impossivble"

That they are present in many games doesn't make them "uncopyrightable" - you do realize all of these other games copied Dominion, right? Not saying they are definitely subject to copyright either, but I don't think anyone here is interested in exploring the limits of a legally safe Dominion knockoff. We know the people that make it and it's kinda rude.

You alluded to this point above, and then decided it was okay because a lot of other people were doing it. What does that have to do with the morality of knocking off this game? It just means some other people aren't ascribing to that moral value, it doesn't actually make anything okay.

Hi Chris. As I say, the ethical dimension matters to me. I'm sorry for being unclear. I don't think that "just because someone else does it is ethically fine". However, there seems to be an understanding within the board game market that some degree of imitation is okay. Many games now use some set of actions, buys, coins, trashing, etc.

I'm up for a discussion as to whether these other games are ethical, but it seems to be that it is an accepted part of the board game industry that games can take mechanics from one another. I think the main point is, does the existence of dominion mean that no similar game can exist with different cards? I think the answer should be no.

I don't know the people who make it, but if I made a game, I wouldn't want it to be copied and hawked online. However, I wouldn't think it right that all similar games shouldn't exist because mine does, they just couldn't be exactly the same.

I'll consider whether this would be, but I would argue that the main thing that now sets dominion apart from many similar games is it's actual cards. It's core mechanics are copied everwhere. I suggest that a game without any dominion cards but the same core mechanics (decks actions buys coins trashind drawing) would be a different game.

I don't know, though, and I could be wrong.

An obvious counterpoint is that many cards on here go beyond that - they use the framework of what is clearly solely dominion (attacks, debt, reactions etc etc) and to copy that would be to copy dominion, not to build another deckbuilder with space for community generated cards.

I don't seek to upset, this is a reasonable and sincere discussion and I respect being told "this is wrong".
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 05:06:07 am by BlastFurnace »
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