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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation  (Read 18655 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #125 on: September 29, 2018, 08:00:38 pm »
+6

Is using more than 2 sideways cards considered a variant; or simply outside a recommendation?
I checked the Empires rulebook for you; it says "for normal play we recommend..." Feel free to interpret those words as you wish.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #126 on: September 29, 2018, 08:09:34 pm »
+5

Was “reveal and discard” considered? It should be basically the same character count.
This isn't the kind of thing my brain felt I would need to know later. There are threads I could look through for discussion about this particular wording. It's work to do that and sure seems moot. Again we weren't confused.

I am looking at the image. Possibly "revealing them" would fit if I changed "that many" to "as many." That sounds plausible and, given people's comments, probably better. Another classic trick is to change "any number" to e.g. "up to 5"; I'm not sure that does it. When it came time to do the layout, the expansion symbol got in the way on Innovation and it ended up three lines, so you could argue, just give up on sticking to two lines, how is that worth more than clarity. And if I spoke up with a rant about complexity and how man this one set was sticking to two lines on these cards, well there's always not doing Silos.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #127 on: September 29, 2018, 10:05:05 pm »
0

Is using more than 2 sideways cards considered a variant; or simply outside a recommendation?
I checked the Empires rulebook for you; it says "for normal play we recommend..." Feel free to interpret those words as you wish.

I guess my question was actually if Renaissance rules were a change to the Empire rules here; and I’m taking your reference to Empires as a “no”.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #128 on: September 29, 2018, 11:38:09 pm »
0

Man, these projects range from very minor minor (fair, star chart) to totally game warping (innovation, citadel). Idk how I feel about that
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2018, 12:54:48 am »
+1

I guess my question was actually if Renaissance rules were a change to the Empire rules here; and I’m taking your reference to Empires as a “no”.
The rulebook for Renaissance hasn't been posted yet, so I looked in the Empires rulebook. I've said a bunch of stuff about Renaissance, so I can understand thinking, who knows, maybe he'll answer this; what does it matter if people know this anyway? OTOH at the point at which this information will be useful, you will be able to find out the answer without me. So the question doesn't leave me feeling particularly generous.
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TheOthin

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2018, 08:28:38 am »
0

Man, these projects range from very minor minor (fair, star chart) to totally game warping (innovation, citadel). Idk how I feel about that
I wouldn't call any of them minor. Fair, in particular, is game-changing on a board without other good +Buy. Star Chart can be irrelevant on sufficiently thin decks, but it can also make a big increase in the odds of an engine firing.
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ospond

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #131 on: September 30, 2018, 08:35:04 am »
+2

I guess my question was actually if Renaissance rules were a change to the Empire rules here; and I’m taking your reference to Empires as a “no”.
The rulebook for Renaissance hasn't been posted yet, so I looked in the Empires rulebook. I've said a bunch of stuff about Renaissance, so I can understand thinking, who knows, maybe he'll answer this; what does it matter if people know this anyway? OTOH at the point at which this information will be useful, you will be able to find out the answer without me. So the question doesn't leave me feeling particularly generous.

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.


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pacovf

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2018, 10:40:38 am »
+10

Let’s just not go there.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2018, 12:25:26 pm »
+8

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?
My mother always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, say this little speech."

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.
It turns out that ignoring someone's question is also rude.

The question didn't say "hey Donald X." but was implicitly directed at me. Hey, I'm here, I don't need to act like, why are you bothering the game designer. I have long established that when people say "hey tell me this about the new set" I will say something like "the blurb doesn't seem to answer that." Those questions get answered when the rulebook is posted, and it hasn't been. This question had an answer separate from Renaissance, so I gave that answer. He could have dug up that answer himself, so yes, "for you." I did in fact go look in the rulebook to see what it said; I wouldn't have otherwise, and he could have done that himself.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.
If I am saying a "your mom" joke, it's to be hilarious, not to actually insult anybody. I do not see how you can actually insult someone with a "your mom" joke in 2018.

I am always going to be that rude guy. I have no ability to put on some fake persona for you. If it ever seems like a real problem I can just not post in the forums.
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werothegreat

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2018, 12:27:34 pm »
+2

I guess my question was actually if Renaissance rules were a change to the Empire rules here; and I’m taking your reference to Empires as a “no”.
The rulebook for Renaissance hasn't been posted yet, so I looked in the Empires rulebook. I've said a bunch of stuff about Renaissance, so I can understand thinking, who knows, maybe he'll answer this; what does it matter if people know this anyway? OTOH at the point at which this information will be useful, you will be able to find out the answer without me. So the question doesn't leave me feeling particularly generous.

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.

Just be glad we have Donald X and not sirlin
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2018, 01:03:50 pm »
+4

Part of this was just me not being clear in my question... I knew quite well what the Empires rulebook had to say about this, and my intent was specifically to ask for clarification about this line from the blurb: "You only play with 2 max between these and Events and Landmarks, unless you prefer to have more, I can't stop you." Was trying to ask if that line was intended as a rules change to Empires, where it says it's a recommendation and not a rule. This line makes it sound more like a rule, but with the clarification that house-rules are always allowed if you feel like it.

But I failed to clarify that I knew the Empires rule already, probably I even should have quoted it in my question along with the quote from the blurb.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2018, 01:54:27 pm »
+3

Man, these projects range from very minor minor (fair, star chart) to totally game warping (innovation, citadel). Idk how I feel about that

Silos seems the most niche to me so far.

Star Chart is really good.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2018, 01:57:41 pm »
+3

Part of this was just me not being clear in my question... I knew quite well what the Empires rulebook had to say about this, and my intent was specifically to ask for clarification about this line from the blurb: "You only play with 2 max between these and Events and Landmarks, unless you prefer to have more, I can't stop you." Was trying to ask if that line was intended as a rules change to Empires, where it says it's a recommendation and not a rule. This line makes it sound more like a rule, but with the clarification that house-rules are always allowed if you feel like it.
Oh I see. That line was just echoing the previous rulebooks.
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Robz888

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2018, 02:09:49 pm »
+1

Star Chart seems really good, especially given how affordable it is in the early game.
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ospond

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2018, 03:00:11 pm »
+8

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?
My mother always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, say this little speech."

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.
It turns out that ignoring someone's question is also rude.

The question didn't say "hey Donald X." but was implicitly directed at me. Hey, I'm here, I don't need to act like, why are you bothering the game designer. I have long established that when people say "hey tell me this about the new set" I will say something like "the blurb doesn't seem to answer that." Those questions get answered when the rulebook is posted, and it hasn't been. This question had an answer separate from Renaissance, so I gave that answer. He could have dug up that answer himself, so yes, "for you." I did in fact go look in the rulebook to see what it said; I wouldn't have otherwise, and he could have done that himself.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.
If I am saying a "your mom" joke, it's to be hilarious, not to actually insult anybody. I do not see how you can actually insult someone with a "your mom" joke in 2018.

I am always going to be that rude guy. I have no ability to put on some fake persona for you. If it ever seems like a real problem I can just not post in the forums.

All right, I'm impressed with the politeness of your response. I may have misjudged the tone of your comments. Thank you for frequenting the forums and answering people's questions.

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Doom_Shark

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #140 on: September 30, 2018, 05:35:33 pm »
+1

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?
My mother always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, say this little speech."

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.
It turns out that ignoring someone's question is also rude.

The question didn't say "hey Donald X." but was implicitly directed at me. Hey, I'm here, I don't need to act like, why are you bothering the game designer. I have long established that when people say "hey tell me this about the new set" I will say something like "the blurb doesn't seem to answer that." Those questions get answered when the rulebook is posted, and it hasn't been. This question had an answer separate from Renaissance, so I gave that answer. He could have dug up that answer himself, so yes, "for you." I did in fact go look in the rulebook to see what it said; I wouldn't have otherwise, and he could have done that himself.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.
If I am saying a "your mom" joke, it's to be hilarious, not to actually insult anybody. I do not see how you can actually insult someone with a "your mom" joke in 2018.

I am always going to be that rude guy. I have no ability to put on some fake persona for you. If it ever seems like a real problem I can just not post in the forums.

All right, I'm impressed with the politeness of your response. I may have misjudged the tone of your comments. Thank you for frequenting the forums and answering people's questions.

Is this what civility looks like?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #141 on: September 30, 2018, 05:37:39 pm »
+11

You know that old wisdom: "if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"?
My mother always told me, "If you can't say anything nice, say this little speech."

Although the question was not particularly consequential, you didn't have to answer it. Instead, you answered a question about Renaissance by saying "I checked the Empires rulebook for you", which doesn't even make sense, and the "for you" just makes it slightly rude.
It turns out that ignoring someone's question is also rude.

The question didn't say "hey Donald X." but was implicitly directed at me. Hey, I'm here, I don't need to act like, why are you bothering the game designer. I have long established that when people say "hey tell me this about the new set" I will say something like "the blurb doesn't seem to answer that." Those questions get answered when the rulebook is posted, and it hasn't been. This question had an answer separate from Renaissance, so I gave that answer. He could have dug up that answer himself, so yes, "for you." I did in fact go look in the rulebook to see what it said; I wouldn't have otherwise, and he could have done that himself.

Recently on the forums I saw some posts back and forth where you kept using "your mom" insults. Being the creator of the game we all love gives you status. We're the customers. You should use your status to take the higher ground and set an example for everyone else.
If I am saying a "your mom" joke, it's to be hilarious, not to actually insult anybody. I do not see how you can actually insult someone with a "your mom" joke in 2018.

I am always going to be that rude guy. I have no ability to put on some fake persona for you. If it ever seems like a real problem I can just not post in the forums.

All right, I'm impressed with the politeness of your response. I may have misjudged the tone of your comments. Thank you for frequenting the forums and answering people's questions.

Is this what civility looks like?

I can't define civility, but I know it when there's a decline of it on Isotropic.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #142 on: September 30, 2018, 07:43:54 pm »
+1

All right, I'm impressed with the politeness of your response. I may have misjudged the tone of your comments. Thank you for frequenting the forums and answering people's questions.
Thanks, excellent, the system works.

When I read GendoIkari's post, I was just thinking "why do I have to answer this" and didn't realize he was seeing if something I'd said in the preview represented a change of policy or just the conversational tone of the preview. Then when he clarified, I forgot we were talking about something mentioned in the preview and thus already public knowledge.
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Minotaur

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+1

All right, I'm impressed with the politeness of your response. I may have misjudged the tone of your comments. Thank you for frequenting the forums and answering people's questions.

Eh, I sort of got where you were coming from.  I think if there were three layers of PR between DXV and his responses, they may have taken a different form.  But it strikes me as casual and glib, and he doesn't really expect anyone to give a damn I guess?  The comment that got you concerned did sort of look like a "lmgtfy.com" sort of thing.  But basically, he replies when he feels like it, and it's hard to forecast, and in the 98% of cases where he doesn't reply, there's a pretty good chance someone else will have good info or relevant speculations based on some other precedent.  It's sort of like he doesn't really have to reply unless it's to give a ruling on a rules interpretation that is truly, unresolvably ambiguous.
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ipofanes

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+6

I like how Sewer amplifies weak trashing, I mean really weak trashing as in Acting Troupe and Embargo.
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kieranmillar

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I like how Sewer amplifies weak trashing, I mean really weak trashing as in Acting Troupe and Embargo.
With Sewer, Embargo is the Bomb!
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pst

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+12

So now with Innovation there is a part of Dominion that you still can play on Isotropic!
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Honkeyfresh

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0

Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
I dunno.  It's pretty sweet in the curse battle to dole a curse out immediately without having to cycle through your deck to do so. REally same with any attack. Also great with gainers etc.  Plus since its on first buy, if instead of witch you played militia, you'd get 2 more coins to buy with and the attack.

So far i think innovation is pretty strong.
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ipofanes

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It depends on the kingdom.

It's sweet to get the gold gainer with gold, but you could have gotten the gold with the $6 in the first place, so one gold gainer in the kingdom might not tip the balance towards a commtment to Innovation. One more potentially useful cards might. Also, consider the propensity of those situational buys, like Death Cart with Ruins in hand or Courtiers with Werewolf.

Obviously, Innovation is much stronger with Action gaining in the Action phase. Workshop is an instant Cobbler. 
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grrgrrgrr

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+1

Do you know what Nocturne and Renaissance have in common?

a) They both came out after Feast has been cut.
b) They both feature a card that synergizes with Feast.

Is Donald going to continue this trend?
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