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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation  (Read 10614 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2018, 04:12:32 am »
+1

Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.

You can't play Actions or Treasures after you've bought a card.


Innovation makes the Protoplasm copypasta a lot more trivial because any card is ALSO PROMPT (as long as you have Innovation).
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infangthief

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2018, 04:13:53 am »
+2

Does sewers not give a +2 after playing priest?
The extra trashing from Sewers is triggered before you get to the part of Priest which says "for the rest of your turn when you trash a card..."
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2018, 04:17:35 am »
0

Is there a mistake in the Silos wording shown? It doesn't make sense.
By default when you discard a bunch of cards together, you don't have to reveal them.  So for accountability reasons, Silo tells you to reveal the copper.

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but the wording doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 04:25:57 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2018, 04:22:20 am »
0

Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
You can gain cards during your Action phase. So with gainers or Remodelers Innovation is quite good. Play a Workshop, gain a lousy Pearl Diver and retroactively cantrip-ify that Workshop.

I think Projects could have been more complicated, like having to build them over several turns or whatever.

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Awaclus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2018, 04:23:47 am »
0

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2018, 04:29:32 am »
0

Is there a mistake in the Silos wording shown? It doesn't make sense.
By default when you discard a bunch of cards together, you don't have to reveal them.  So for accountability reasons, Silo tells you to reveal the copper.

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but the wording doesn't make sense.
Shepherd's wording with a verb might be clearer as it tells you what to do but it is not as if Silos is worded wrongly or imprecisely.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2018, 04:32:57 am »
+2

You can't buy the same project twice, right?
You can't.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2018, 04:33:21 am »
0

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.

You discard the coppers, revealed? But no coppers were revealed. There's nothing that says to reveal your hand. It doesn't say to reveal the coppers like it's supposed to. The syntax is messed up. How does that make sense?

Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2018, 04:33:27 am »
+1

So, although Inheritance is an Event, Projects work basically the same way as it does, right? Buy it once, and you have a special ability for the rest of the game?
You buy it once and then have a special ability for the rest of the game.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 04:34:47 am »
+10

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.

You discard the coppers, revealed? But no coppers were revealed. There's nothing that says to reveal your hand. The syntax is messed up. How does that make sense?
"Revealed" means "also, reveal those coppers, so that we know they are coppers. By the way sorry for saying this so tersely but there's only so much room on the cards and if it had ever confused anyone in playtesting man I would have changed it."
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mameluke

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2018, 04:35:59 am »
0

Also I just noticed that Citadel doesn't have a Duration clause even though the set will have Duration cards. No worries about tracking issues this time around?

Citadel / Hireling is kind of crazy and probably has tracking issues.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2018, 04:36:50 am »
+3

I think Projects could have been more complicated, like having to build them over several turns or whatever.
They were more complicated, as will be explained in the Secret History. And I thought, these could be simpler.

As usual I named the mechanic I had, I didn't make a mechanic for the name.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2018, 04:38:55 am »
+1

Also I just noticed that Citadel doesn't have a Duration clause even though the set will have Duration cards. No worries about tracking issues this time around?
We didn't have trouble there. "Non-duration" was considered.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2018, 04:46:15 am »
0

So with Star Chart you don't get to look at your deck after shuffling, right? You set aside the card you want first, then shuffle the rest?
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2018, 04:53:16 am »
+2

So with Star Chart you don't get to look at your deck after shuffling, right? You set aside the card you want first, then shuffle the rest?
You take just the cards being shuffled, look through them, pick one, shuffle the rest, put the one you picked on top... then put the pile under the left-to-draw cards if any and then do your drawing or whatever you were doing.
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samath

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2018, 04:56:21 am »
0

My final previews video is up! Featuring three games with markus (we got lucky to see all six).

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2018, 04:57:42 am »
0

After thinking about it for a bit, I'm wondering about the decision-making process regarding these. Since you can only buy these once, it seems like it will be a no-brainer to get them every game. The effects are either never harmful or optional, and you don't have to pick a good "target" like inheritance. I suppose there's decisions in when to get them, but I think even there the answer is usually "as soon as possible." I guess the main exception would be Fair, which you should probably wait on. And you don't need Silos if there's premium trashing, or Sewers if there's no trashing. But what about the others? In the end, are projects a little too simple?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 05:02:34 am by Commodore Chuckles »
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2018, 05:02:14 am »
+1

After thinking about it for a bit, I'm wondering about the decision-making process regarding these. Since you can only buy these once, it seems like it will be a no-brainer to get them every game (Except Sewer with no trashing and other obvious exceptions). The effects are either never harmful or optional, and you don't have to pick a good "target" like inheritance. I suppose there's decisions in when to get them, but I think even there the answer is usually "as soon as possible." In the end, are they a little too simple?
I don't think so. Of course something like Silos is a no-brainer in a game without Copper trashing but what if there is moderate trashing or sifting? Then it is not that simple.
I agree that the Projects are simple, too simple for my irrelevant preferences, but this doesn't imply that they don't lead to tricky decisions.
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santamonica811

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2018, 05:04:58 am »
0

Citadel seems, so far, too powerful of a card.  I've only played a small handful of game with it so far, but getting it (against Lord Rat) has led to a decisive win each time.  And that's without Kings Court in the kingdom...it would be an almost sure resignation if you got that combo going in a game, other than at the very end.  In my first game with Citadel, travelers were there, and Cit + Disciple was crazy-powerful, of course.
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Awaclus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2018, 05:20:45 am »
+1

I get that's what it's supposed to be, but wording doesn't make sense.

How does it not make sense? You discard the Coppers, revealed. And then you draw that many cards.

You discard the coppers, revealed? But no coppers were revealed. There's nothing that says to reveal your hand. It doesn't say to reveal the coppers like it's supposed to. The syntax is messed up. How does that make sense?

It doesn't say "discard the revealed coppers", it says "discard the coppers, [in such a way that they become] revealed".
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Asper

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2018, 05:29:20 am »
+4

Logical next step. Guess you could have done this with Events and one unique token per Event, but man, who needs all the tokens. Similar to how the Artifacts re-implement Fool's "Lost in the Woods" but make it feel cleaner.

Citadel seems, so far, too powerful of a card.

Aren't you glad it isn't a card?

crlundy

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2018, 06:02:47 am »
+1

I'm guessing you can't buy a Project while in Debt?
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2018, 06:06:34 am »
+2

I'm guessing you can't buy a Project while in Debt?
you can't
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ossiangrr

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2018, 06:15:10 am »
0

I'm wondering if I figured out part of the Teaser:
If I have Innovation, and I buy the last copy of Outpost which is the third pile to be emptied (endgame trigger), then can I play Outpost, and then take an additional turn after the game is technically over?
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Ingix

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2018, 06:25:20 am »
+1

The game end conditions are checked once a turn is over, not any other time. Playing Outpost the way you described is in no significant way different from playing Outpost 'normally' and then emptying a 3rd pile (Outpost or otherwise). If it worked the way you described it, using mid-turn gainers to empty 3 piles and playing Outpost afterwards would have worked a long time already.
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