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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation  (Read 10622 times)

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greybirdofprey

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Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
I dunno.  It's pretty sweet in the curse battle to dole a curse out immediately without having to cycle through your deck to do so. REally same with any attack. Also great with gainers etc.  Plus since its on first buy, if instead of witch you played militia, you'd get 2 more coins to buy with and the attack.

So far i think innovation is pretty strong.

The way I read it I think it should not cost an action.

Same with for example Throne Room or Cultist.
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GendoIkari

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+1

Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
I dunno.  It's pretty sweet in the curse battle to dole a curse out immediately without having to cycle through your deck to do so. REally same with any attack. Also great with gainers etc.  Plus since its on first buy, if instead of witch you played militia, you'd get 2 more coins to buy with and the attack.

So far i think innovation is pretty strong.

The way I read it I think it should not cost an action.

Same with for example Throne Room or Cultist.

Not sure what you're responding to; the thing you quoted didn't imply that it would cost an action. But you are correct, any time an effect instructs you to play a card; playing that card does not require spending an action to do so.
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greybirdofprey

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Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
I dunno.  It's pretty sweet in the curse battle to dole a curse out immediately without having to cycle through your deck to do so. REally same with any attack. Also great with gainers etc.  Plus since its on first buy, if instead of witch you played militia, you'd get 2 more coins to buy with and the attack.

So far i think innovation is pretty strong.

The way I read it I think it should not cost an action.

Same with for example Throne Room or Cultist.

Not sure what you're responding to; the thing you quoted didn't imply that it would cost an action. But you are correct, any time an effect instructs you to play a card; playing that card does not require spending an action to do so.

"Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw."
I don't like breaking quote trains.
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GendoIkari

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Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.
I dunno.  It's pretty sweet in the curse battle to dole a curse out immediately without having to cycle through your deck to do so. REally same with any attack. Also great with gainers etc.  Plus since its on first buy, if instead of witch you played militia, you'd get 2 more coins to buy with and the attack.

So far i think innovation is pretty strong.

The way I read it I think it should not cost an action.

Same with for example Throne Room or Cultist.

Not sure what you're responding to; the thing you quoted didn't imply that it would cost an action. But you are correct, any time an effect instructs you to play a card; playing that card does not require spending an action to do so.

"Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw."
I don't like breaking quote trains.

cmb wasn't saying anything about the Witch needing an action either though. He was wondering why he couldn't play a card after he played the Witch.
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Asper

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+1

Is Innovation working properly in the preview? If I gain a Witch, it will draw two cards and deal a curse, but then - even if I have extra actions and buys - I can't play actions or treasures that I draw.

That seems to make some amount of sense, but it's far more limited of an effect than I guessed for $6.

The answer is that you can only play Actions during your Action phase, and can only play Treasures at the start of your buy phase. Unless you gained that Witch during your Action phase with e.g. Artificer, you shouldn't be able to play other Actions or Treasures. Same when you gain it using Horn of Plenty, which should allow you to play other Treasures you drew.

faust

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+6

No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.
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greybirdofprey

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No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.

Also Silos, like Cellar, Storeroom, Secret Chamber, Warehouse and Vault, is a storage location.
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ackmondual

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I guess Sewers will make a huge difference to boards which only have weak trashing.
It will be interesting to see if someone would gain curses, estates or ruins voluntarilly just to keep Jack-of-all-Trades (as the only trasher) churning through the coppers.
I'm already considering buying Copper to trigger Sewers with Ducat!

If I have Star Craft Chart and play Patrol with 6 cards left in my deck, then according the the changed reshuffle rule I will have to shuffle before drawing any and can put a card on top and draw it with Patrol, correct? So we now have a case where the revised shuffle rule really does make a difference?
As a Star Craft Chart fan, it beats the alternative... War Craft Chart ;)

So, Fair, you pay your $4, you put a cube on Fair, every turn from now on you have +1 Buy. Get it?

Sounds fair.
And unlike the Traveling Fair, this Fair is quite the Project, but stays put and is here to stay.
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

infangthief

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No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.
I don't know how international it is, but in the UK, "Minstrels" are a brand of chocolates that resemble black Go stones.

So if we do get Minstrel as a project giving you +1 action, then I would be tempted to put a bag of Minstrels on it. Each turn you may take a Minstrel from the bag and use it as a Villager, for the duration of that turn only. During clean-up you eat the Minstrel if you haven't used it.
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Awaclus

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No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.
I don't know how international it is, but in the UK, "Minstrels" are a brand of chocolates that resemble black Go stones.

So if we do get Minstrel as a project giving you +1 action, then I would be tempted to put a bag of Minstrels on it. Each turn you may take a Minstrel from the bag and use it as a Villager, for the duration of that turn only. During clean-up you eat the Minstrel if you haven't used it.

>eating chocolate while playing card games

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infangthief

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No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.
I don't know how international it is, but in the UK, "Minstrels" are a brand of chocolates that resemble black Go stones.

So if we do get Minstrel as a project giving you +1 action, then I would be tempted to put a bag of Minstrels on it. Each turn you may take a Minstrel from the bag and use it as a Villager, for the duration of that turn only. During clean-up you eat the Minstrel if you haven't used it.

>eating chocolate while playing card games


Maybe we should start to interpret 'clean-up' more literally.
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ackmondual

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No comment yet about how Fair is a Travelling Fair that doesn't travel? Such great flavor choices. Makes me hope that there is a project called "Minstrel" that just gives you +1 action.
I don't know how international it is, but in the UK, "Minstrels" are a brand of chocolates that resemble black Go stones.

So if we do get Minstrel as a project giving you +1 action, then I would be tempted to put a bag of Minstrels on it. Each turn you may take a Minstrel from the bag and use it as a Villager, for the duration of that turn only. During clean-up you eat the Minstrel if you haven't used it.

>eating chocolate while playing card games


Maybe we should start to interpret 'clean-up' more literally.
Sounds like a promo set opportunity to me...

Moist Towelette | $2 | Action
During your cleanup phase, if you have at least one Moist Towelette in play, gain +1 VP token per Chocolate card you have in play, but not more than 3 VP tokens.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 11:29:27 pm by ackmondual »
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Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

crj

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Sticky fingers - Action, Attack
Put chocolate on your fingers
Each other player reveals their hand and you may make a distinguishing mark on the back of one of the cards.
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arflutter

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Further up thread there was a discussion about the mechanics of Star Chart and whether it makes the new shuffling rule (if you can't fulfill the entire draw instruction then shuffle before you draw any cards) genuinely different from the old one. The conclusion seemed to be that it didn't, but I slightly disagree.

Sticking with the example of Patrol, I play Patrol with six cards left in my deck. First I draw three cards (no problem there). Now I don't have enough left in my deck to fulfill the next instruction so I shuffle my discards, using Star Chart to choose what to put on top, and put the newly shuffled deck under the three cards left in my old draw deck. Finally I draw four cards (guaranteeing to draw what I put on top). Under the old rule it would have been identical except that I would have drawn those extra three cards before shuffling, meaning I would have been able to examine what they were before I chose which card to put on top of my deck. Granted I theoretically knew what those cards were anyway, but in practice maybe I don't remember whether I have one or two more terminals and hence whether I should be top decking my Village.

I'm not saying whether I prefer the old rule or the new one, merely that here for the first time the difference does actually change the game.
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GendoIkari

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Further up thread there was a discussion about the mechanics of Star Chart and whether it makes the new shuffling rule (if you can't fulfill the entire draw instruction then shuffle before you draw any cards) genuinely different from the old one. The conclusion seemed to be that it didn't, but I slightly disagree.

Sticking with the example of Patrol, I play Patrol with six cards left in my deck. First I draw three cards (no problem there). Now I don't have enough left in my deck to fulfill the next instruction so I shuffle my discards, using Star Chart to choose what to put on top, and put the newly shuffled deck under the three cards left in my old draw deck. Finally I draw four cards (guaranteeing to draw what I put on top). Under the old rule it would have been identical except that I would have drawn those extra three cards before shuffling, meaning I would have been able to examine what they were before I chose which card to put on top of my deck. Granted I theoretically knew what those cards were anyway, but in practice maybe I don't remember whether I have one or two more terminals and hence whether I should be top decking my Village.

I'm not saying whether I prefer the old rule or the new one, merely that here for the first time the difference does actually change the game.

It seems clear to me that Star Chart would mean each shuffle rule is different... when the new Shuffle Rule was introduced, Stash became different, and eventually Stash got new wording to make it work the same. Star Chart has the same wording as old Stash. You don't need complex Patrol examples for this... just playing a Smithy with 1 card left in your draw pile is enough. Under the old rules, you would get to see what that last card is before you shuffle. Under the new rules, you don't get to see that information. Which card you want to put on top could depend on that information.
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Jeebus

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Star Chart has the same wording as old Stash.

Interestingly (and just as an aside), the two cards still seem to have different timing. Stash tells you to place it after you've shuffled, which is consistent with the "when shuffle" wording. But Star Chart tells you to pick a card and place it as the top card before you shuffle.

Jeebus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #166 on: November 10, 2018, 09:50:22 pm »
+2

Regarding Innovation: Will Villa and Ironworks lose track if you use Innovation's effect?

Ironworks: Ironworks doesn't try to move the card after it is gained, so loose track doesn't really apply. All it does is determining the card's type(s), which should not normally be a problem, but I assume there might be edge cases where it is. So if it is a Band of Misfits that Innovation plays as a Mill, Ironworks will see it as Victory-Action; same if it copies an Island.

If you play BoM as Island, it's set aside and reverts to Bom before Ironworks checks it, right?

Ingix

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Re: Renaissance Previews #5: Fair, Silos, Citadel, Star Chart, Sewers, Innovation
« Reply #167 on: November 11, 2018, 07:36:19 am »
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Yes, that comment about BoM as Island from me was incorrect. Didn't think it through.
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