Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: CSM and Ducat  (Read 8494 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Mic Qsenoch

  • 2015 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1709
  • Respect: +4329
    • View Profile
CSM and Ducat
« on: September 26, 2018, 02:12:35 pm »
+15

I recruited discord to help make a list of:

Cards (and card-shaped things) which make Candlestick Maker and Ducat play differently:

Draw to X and related: Library, JoAT, Watchtower, Minion, Menagerie, Scholar, Tactician, Cursed Village, Diplomat
Action Thrones: TR, KC, Procession, Crown, Disciple, Ghost, Royal Carriage
Drawing/Playing Actions: Scrying Pool, City Quarter, Herald, Golem, Ghost, Wandering Minstrel, Prince, Imp, Conclave, Vassal, Library, Shanty Town
Actions Played/In-play/In-discard: Peddler, Conspirator, Leprechaun, Emporium, Enchantress, Scheme, Coin of the Realm, Champion (Diadem), Magic Lamp*, Walled Village, Inn
Tokens: Teacher, Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Seaway, Training, Ferry, Plan, Inheritance
Type check bonuses: Ironmonger, Ironworks, Sacrifice, Sculptor, Magpie, Vineyard, Transmute, Haunted Mirror
Action Gaining/Buying: University, Lurker, Stonemason, Quarry, Summon
Impersonation: BoM, Overlord, Necromancer
Landmarks: Keep, Arena, Colonnade, Obelisk, Orchard, Triumphal Arch, Defiled Shrine, Tomb
Action Trashing: Graverobber, Death Cart, Advance, Zombie Apprentice, Lurker
Variety: Fairgrounds, Museum, Gladiator, Menagerie, Harvest
Possession (because always Possession?)
Hexes: Locusts, Delusion
Butcher (easier to use CSM Coffers)
Ducat’s cool ability which also interacts with: Priest, Tomb, Market Square, Sewers, Watchtower
Treasure things: Terminal Draw (not listing all these), Stables, Venture, Bank, Earth’s Gift, Mandarin**, Storyteller, Black Market***, Catapult, Herbalist, Poor House, Forager, Hero, Tragic Hero, Alms, Crown, Crypt, Plaza, Haunted Woods (CSM can be dead in hand)
Can/Can’t trash Treasures: Counterfeit, Loan, Bandit, Noble Brigand (affects junking), Pirate Ship, Taxman, Mint, Mine, JoAT, Spice Merchant, Hermit, Pooka

Clarifications:
* Ducat favorer because you can play multiple Ducats (some after Lamp) and still activate.
** Ducat enables Mandarin/HoP golden deck.
*** Storyteller/Black Market require some additional interactions to make meaningful differences.

All the action leading to this treasure happened here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EE3Jj3W_8-WuDXX4IM74sJxe9qpNbdkL7RtioH-IWv8/edit?usp=sharing
Feel free to add anything we missed.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 11:16:31 pm by Mic Qsenoch »
Logged

Orange

  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 277
  • Shuffle iT Username: Orange
  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2018, 02:38:17 pm »
0

Not sure Crown belongs on this list.
Logged

Uiteindelijk

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 02:43:55 pm »
+1

Not sure Crown belongs on this list.

The +2 actions from CSM differs from what you'd get with Ducat.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 03:05:31 pm »
+2

Not sure Crown belongs on this list.

The +2 actions from CSM differs from what you'd get with Ducat.

Yeah. A hand of Crown+CM+Goons+Goons is better than Crown+Ducat+Goons+Goons by a lot.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

trivialknot

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 757
  • Respect: +1171
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 04:16:07 pm »
+6

You missed Copper.
Logged

silvern

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
  • Respect: +170
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 05:45:53 pm »
+1

One test I've been doing is, randomizing a kingdom, replacing the first two cards with CM and Ducat, and seeing how often you want Candlestick Maker at all.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 05:58:19 pm »
0

One test I've been doing is, randomizing a kingdom, replacing the first two cards with CM and Ducat, and seeing how often you want Candlestick Maker at all.

How often do you want Candlestick Maker at all?
Logged

Orange

  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 277
  • Shuffle iT Username: Orange
  • 2012 WBC Champion
  • Respect: +278
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 06:37:53 pm »
+1

Not sure Crown belongs on this list.

The +2 actions from CSM differs from what you'd get with Ducat.

Ah yes of course!
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 01:03:15 am »
+3

The cards in the "Variety" section do not really make them play differently though, they just make it so when both are in the kingdom, you are incentivized to get both. But since that holds for both Ducat and CSM, they won't play differently.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

arflutter

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
  • Shuffle iT Username: arflutter
  • Respect: +5
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 01:38:40 am »
0

The cards in the "Variety" section do not really make them play differently though, they just make it so when both are in the kingdom, you are incentivized to get both.
Menagerie plays differently because when you have multiple CSMs in hand you can play some to get rid of the duplicates.
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 02:01:49 am »
+2

The cards in the "Variety" section do not really make them play differently though, they just make it so when both are in the kingdom, you are incentivized to get both.
Menagerie plays differently because when you have multiple CSMs in hand you can play some to get rid of the duplicates.
Yes, but Mengerie already makes an appearance in the "draw to X and related" section for that reason.
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Honkeyfresh

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 617
  • DSF lowest ratio upvotes-posts 14 yrs & counting
  • Respect: +228
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 12:51:01 am »
0

One test I've been doing is, randomizing a kingdom, replacing the first two cards with CM and Ducat, and seeing how often you want Candlestick Maker at all.

How often do you want Candlestick Maker at all?

when it's the only buy, advance games, procession, Cursed Village

but yeah I am with you. 

And while this thread is mildly interesting, it's not that relevant unless both are on the board as the above interactions would become clear in it's own board.

That said I'd go Ducat over CSM every time unless some board interaction swayed me.  Can't be drawn dead, and can trash coppers.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 12:55:04 am by Honkeyfresh »
Logged
"Rap game Julio Franco, Chuck Norris, Texas Ranger/ Ice on my fingers look like I slap-boxed a penguin." -- Riff Raff Proverbs 4:20

"Sometimes I say some things people may think are just outlandish, but I'm going to have the last laugh." -- Riff Raff  Exodus 6:66

-Stef-

  • 2012 & 2016 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1574
  • Respect: +4419
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2018, 05:53:24 am »
+2

I see Watchtower is on the list, but only as a draw-to-X.
It seems to merit a special entry though, allowing you to thin coppers when you trash the Ducat you buy/gain.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

markus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Shuffle iT Username: markus
  • Respect: +434
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2018, 07:29:46 am »
+1

If I remember correctly, Mic didn't want anything related to the on-gain effect on the list, as this is the obvious thing that the two cards differ.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6357
  • Respect: +25671
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2018, 08:21:04 am »
+1

If I remember correctly, Mic didn't want anything related to the on-gain effect on the list, as this is the obvious thing that the two cards differ.
Surely it goes in the section "Ducat’s cool ability which also interacts with: Priest, Tomb, Market Square"
Logged

markus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 291
  • Shuffle iT Username: markus
  • Respect: +434
    • View Profile
Re: CSM and Ducat
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2018, 09:02:58 am »
+1

If I remember correctly, Mic didn't want anything related to the on-gain effect on the list, as this is the obvious thing that the two cards differ.
Surely it goes in the section "Ducat’s cool ability which also interacts with: Priest, Tomb, Market Square"
Yes.  8)
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.051 seconds with 21 queries.