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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter  (Read 55008 times)

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scolapasta

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2018, 04:41:13 pm »
+1

I am guessing there will be some cards that hand out coffers and villagers; hence, the villagers being shown before coffers tomorrow even though we already know about coffers.

Also, dual functionability of tokens would make even more sense because you only need one set of tokens when using those cards. Simplicity and efficiency seems to be a theme in this set, which is welcome after Nocturne (a great set, but it can be fiddly IRL).

I wonder if one of the reasons for using the same tokens is that there will be Diadem-like cards that convert Villagers to Coffers (or vice versa). In that way, you just have to slide the token over. 

(a clever solution could have been to use differently sided tokens that you flip; but then you are already using coin token from Guilds, so need to change that rule)

That's another potential reason to be previewing Villagers before Coffers, and provides the new design space that explains why Coffers are being revisited.
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markus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2018, 05:34:22 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.

In a multiplayer game, you could probably make some case that you signal something to the player to your left by using a Villager. Then, they take the better decision and can attack the 3rd player better, who is your fiercest opponent for first place,...
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ehunt

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2018, 05:41:04 pm »
+3

acting troupe <3 <3 <3
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2018, 06:00:59 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2018, 06:01:52 pm »
+2

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the lack of a specific timing in this context. Because it's really hard to think of situations where it matters.

It is something I really dislike in other games though... Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time. And it's to your advantage if a different opponent challenges it instead of you, so you wait and hope that another opponent will instead. But then everyone is doing that same thing. It sucks.

But I don't see that being an issue here. No one is going to complain that they didn't get to reveal their Moat before their opponent spent a Villager.
In general "any time" is bad to do. It opens you up to timing problems and confusing situations. Sometimes it's safe though and this is one of those cases. Only one player can use villagers at once. It's moot that they have the +1 Action, except for when it comes time for them to play another card (yes or end the phase, for Possession). But saying "when it's a time when it would be okay for you to play a card" is way less simple for no benefit here.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2018, 06:03:57 pm »
+12

I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.
Don't miss the VIDEO THAT ASPER CAN'T WATCH!!!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2018, 06:06:13 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.


Unless you are bluffing... make your opponent think you have another Torturer when you don't. But then, your opponent should be smart enough to realize that if you really did have another Torturer, it would be better to wait to spend the Villager until after they've made their choice. So it really just comes down to a mind game.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2018, 06:08:00 pm »
+3

All the more reason to use meeples (or VP tokens, or Embargo tokens, or the Guilds 2E Coffers-mat, if you want to use things already in the box), to avoid an issue if you accidentally knock the mat and can't remember whether you had 3 Coffers and 2 Villagers or the other way around in those few setups where it will matter.
I have played many games with Villagers and Coffers, with Coffers and VP tokens, with Villagers and VP tokens, and some with all three. It is so great not having to reach for a different kind of token. It's clear immediately. No regrets there. Yes there is also, this way there get to be 35 tokens in the box, without charging more.

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2018, 06:08:46 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...

Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.
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markus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2018, 06:09:02 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.


Unless you are bluffing... make your opponent think you have another Torturer when you don't. But then, your opponent should be smart enough to realize that if you really did have another Torturer, it would be better to wait to spend the Villager until after they've made their choice. So it really just comes down to a mind game.
Ok that could work if you also play with an alt that still has a lower level.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2018, 06:41:53 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...

Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.

I've never had this problem in my play group. If someone thinks an action should be challenged, they go for it. I guess it's the difference between playing for fun vs being competitive.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2018, 07:46:42 pm »
0

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.

GUYS I FOUND A USE FOR EMBARGO TOKENS!!

Also Pirate Tokens.
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2018, 08:42:47 pm »
0

[Coup sidetrack]
Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.
If you're claiming Assassin, Contessa or Captain, it's obvious who ought to be doing the challenging. If you're claiming Duke, there are probably only a couple of people in a position to be truly suspicious, and thanks to Ambassador, etc. some will be more suspicious than others. It's only really Ambassador that's a suspicion free-for-all.

In practice, at any given moment, just assume you're the only person thinking of challenging and you won't go far wrong.
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2018, 03:36:07 am »
+5

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.

So this edition doesn't come with hidden spy cameras that report unorthodox token methods to HQ for corrective action.  Good to know.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #89 on: September 26, 2018, 04:58:20 am »
+7

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.

So this edition doesn't come with hidden spy cameras that report unorthodox token methods to HQ for corrective action.  Good to know.
Freedom is the freedom to use meeples as villager tokens.
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Cuzz

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2018, 09:38:31 am »
+5

Recruiter is the game-warping card of the set so far.
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2018, 09:55:26 am »
0

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

It feels to me as though the main benefit of Villagers will be consistency that enables otherwise awkward strategies. Two Labs are better than a Village and a Smithy, but Smithies plus a way to start each turn with a Villager or two in hand could be better still.
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Cuzz

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2018, 10:23:01 am »
+2

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2018, 11:11:01 am »
+4

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.
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Cuzz

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2018, 12:08:15 pm »
+1

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.

Sure. My point is it’s very very good.
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2018, 04:21:57 pm »
+2

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.

Sure. My point is it’s very very good.
Totally agree, the card is totally crazy, trashes and yields a zillion Villagers.
Just buy a couple of them to get a non-terminal Masquerade on steroids. Once you are thin you can trash the superfluous Recruiters and feed the last one stuff to run your engine. You need no villages at all, just some draw and payload.

I don't think it is necessarily Cultist/Rebuild level overpowered though, just very strong and flexible. And most importantly, at least to me, the most unique and fun card so far.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2018, 06:29:07 pm »
0

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2018, 06:39:02 pm »
0

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think it’s a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant don’t.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2018, 07:57:51 pm »
+2

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think it’s a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant don’t.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #99 on: September 26, 2018, 08:53:49 pm »
+4

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think it’s a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant don’t.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.
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