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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter  (Read 6469 times)

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Robz888

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2018, 11:34:14 am »
+4

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.
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ipofanes

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2018, 11:34:45 am »
0

How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?
Donald made it sound like it was one mat divided in half, with a side for coffers and a side for villagers.
Correct, it's the size of the Seaside mats but divided into a top and bottom. The idea here is, you only want so much of your table space taken up with mats.
So when I want to access Villagers but the mat has its coffer side up, I have to flip it over?
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crj

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2018, 11:36:53 am »
+2

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2018, 11:37:14 am »
+2

I don't think it's top and bottom as in flipping the mat, I think it's just divided into two sections on the same side. But I haven't seen it so I don't know for sure.

LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2018, 11:53:38 am »
+1

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
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SuperHans

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2018, 12:03:51 pm »
0

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2018, 12:22:03 pm »
0

Also, if the box only includes coins to represent Villagers, I'm sure I won't be the only one to grab a pile of meeples from another game and use them instead :)
Same here. I get why they stuck with tokens but meeples are just easier to recognize on a quick glance over the table.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2018, 12:33:01 pm »
+8

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.

GUYS I FOUND A USE FOR EMBARGO TOKENS!!
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2018, 12:38:47 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yes, this was the first thing I thought. I think it could be the strongest 5/2 opening in the game, with the possible exception of Mountebank.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2018, 12:41:18 pm »
+1

I love the idea of Villagers being little meeple <3
Totally going to do this.

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.
I feel you, I'm not too fond of "Coffers" either. I never heard of this word, but more importantly, it will make my Guilds cards feel weirdly incompatible with Renaissance. That's a real bummer.

From a business perspective, it does make sense, of course. Up to now, we have been pampered with ever-new tokens, and up until Adventures they all used to be metal, too. Did we really need all those Embargo tokens? Probably not. So I can understand why one would want to use the same tokens for more things (and coin tokens have been used for various purposes from the start). I kind of expect Renaissance isn't going to be the last we've seen of coin tokens.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2018, 12:51:38 pm »
+2

I am guessing there will be some cards that hand out coffers and villagers; hence, the villagers being shown before coffers tomorrow even though we already know about coffers.

Also, dual functionability of tokens would make even more sense because you only need one set of tokens when using those cards. Simplicity and efficiency seems to be a theme in this set, which is welcome after Nocturne (a great set, but it can be fiddly IRL).

I like this metagaming of predictions based on the order Donald did previews in!
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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2018, 01:19:21 pm »
0

To be fair, I believe Adventures previews did Reserve cards before Duration cards.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2018, 01:29:00 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yes, this was the first thing I thought. I think it could be the strongest 5/2 opening in the game, with the possible exception of Mountebank.

Sentry and Vampire seem stronger, at the very least.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2018, 01:32:34 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yeah. At first I thought it was super mega-strong, but I realised that was just because I got 2/5 on my first game. It's still strong for sure, maybe even very strong, but as a 5/2 opener it's just utterly and completely ludicrous. Only Mountebank pops out at me as reliably stronger and I'd even consider Recruiter better than Mountebank on a 5/2 on a few boards. I can't think of another $5 for which that's ever the case.
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2018, 01:59:24 pm »
+1

Is it a bug that you can't use village tokens while you have no action cards in hand? Or that's the rule?
That does matter when playing diadem.
Did you try clicking on the icon? It may be a bug, or at least, a feature not implemented yet. The idea is to give you a way to use villagers even with no Action cards in hand, for both Diadem and Possession.

It would be easier to delete Tournament and Possession from the game than to fix this...
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2018, 02:01:20 pm »
0

On a serious note, would it break anything if you were allowed to spend your Villagers at any phase of your turn you feel like?  This avoids the online "do you want to end your action phase" silliness.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2018, 02:08:13 pm »
+1

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2018, 02:48:59 pm »
+2

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2018, 03:21:56 pm »
+6

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

It could matter in terms of if there's always a clear definition of which player is allowed to "act" at any given moment. MTG has the "priority" system which details exactly when a player is allowed to do anything at all; but a lot of newer players who don't understand that system mistakenly think that there is an element of "reaction time" to the game; where you might need to speak up within the next few seconds or you've lost your chance to do something.

It shouldn't matter in Dominion; but there could now exist a situation where a player plays an attack card, and then at the same moment the other player wants to reveal a reaction while the current turn player wants to spend a Villager. If it is really allowed "at any time", then there exists a time in the game where either player is allowed to act, and thus it can come down to which player chooses to speak first. Luckily, it shouldn't ever matter at all...

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2018, 03:40:30 pm »
+1

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Yes, this doesn't seem that far-fetched. We already have a situation where it matters that a Pirate Ship or Minion player chooses what to do after the other players choose their Reactions. In this case, it's clear that you can spend the Villager token before playing (or not playing) another Torturer. But you're not spending it in the middle of resolving an Action, so it doesn't really touch on my question, I think.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2018, 03:44:45 pm »
0

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

To maximize coins specifically, or maximize purchasing power? If you want to maximize coins, you should probably trash Princess with Priest....
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2018, 03:51:07 pm »
0

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

To maximize coins specifically, or maximize purchasing power? If you want to maximize coins, you should probably trash Princess with Priest....

Right, what I meant was maximize purchasing power. Trashing the Princess is not going to be the right move, and we can actually ignore the Princess.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2018, 03:54:36 pm »
0

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

It could matter in terms of if there's always a clear definition of which player is allowed to "act" at any given moment. MTG has the "priority" system which details exactly when a player is allowed to do anything at all; but a lot of newer players who don't understand that system mistakenly think that there is an element of "reaction time" to the game; where you might need to speak up within the next few seconds or you've lost your chance to do something.

It shouldn't matter in Dominion; but there could now exist a situation where a player plays an attack card, and then at the same moment the other player wants to reveal a reaction while the current turn player wants to spend a Villager. If it is really allowed "at any time", then there exists a time in the game where either player is allowed to act, and thus it can come down to which player chooses to speak first. Luckily, it shouldn't ever matter at all...

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Maybe "any time you could spend an Action or Buy, if you had one" works.  But really, just delete Tournament and Possession...
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2018, 04:12:20 pm »
+1

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Yes, this doesn't seem that far-fetched. We already have a situation where it matters that a Pirate Ship or Minion player chooses what to do after the other players choose their Reactions. In this case, it's clear that you can spend the Villager token before playing (or not playing) another Torturer. But you're not spending it in the middle of resolving an Action, so it doesn't really touch on my question, I think.

Yes you are... you play Torturer, draw 3 cards, then spend an action token, then your opponent deals with discarding / gaining a curse.  You spend the Villager in the middle of resolving Torturer; it wasn't done resolving until your opponent dealt with it.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2018, 04:33:33 pm »
0

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the lack of a specific timing in this context. Because it's really hard to think of situations where it matters.

It is something I really dislike in other games though... Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time. And it's to your advantage if a different opponent challenges it instead of you, so you wait and hope that another opponent will instead. But then everyone is doing that same thing. It sucks.

But I don't see that being an issue here. No one is going to complain that they didn't get to reveal their Moat before their opponent spent a Villager.
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