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Author Topic: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter  (Read 7986 times)

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Donald X.

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Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« on: September 25, 2018, 03:00:05 am »
+51

Villagers are like Coffers but for Actions. I guess that explanation would have been simpler tomorrow. +1 Villager means you add a token to the Villagers side of your Coffers / Villagers mat. You can remove the token for +1 Action in your Action phase. It's a +1 Action you can save. The actual tokens are coins, but don't be fooled, they do double duty. I will tell you now, it's so nice just using one type of token. So anyway, Villagers.



Acting Troupe gets right to the point: 4 tokens, it's gone. How much of a village is that exactly; what decks are possible when this is the only village-like thing? As always I leave those questions to you.

Sculptor is that rare animal, a Workshop that gains cards directly to your hand. Watch out. If you gain an Action you won't necessarily be able to play it that turn... but wait, you might have Villagers from previous plays of Sculptor. They thought of everything.

Recruiter can let you really go nuts getting Villagers. Don't go too nuts; you don't need a giant pile of Villagers sitting there.

If you missed yesterday's preview, I am here to tell you that you can try these cards right now at dominion.games. If you did catch yesterday's preview, I'm just wasting your time now.
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Jfrisch

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 03:27:42 am »
+3

Recruiter looks insane.
Sculptor looks quite good but not OP by any means.
Acting Troupe looks hard to judge, though quite often worth getting one.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 03:29:51 am by Jfrisch »
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 03:36:56 am »
+7

Seems like Recruiter is recruiting Villagers for the revolution.  Now I have a ton of Villagers and everyone else is dead.

This might not be the right game for me.
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Minotaur

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 03:49:54 am »
+1

Well.  I used some Seers to draw a bunch of Silvers I gained with Sculptor, and then I Mined one into a Gold and Sculpted a Remodel to turn the Gold into a Province with 4 Silvers to spare.  It was good enough to edge out a win against Lord Rattington... with first-turn advantage.

This is basically the Inception Meme from classic Homage thread.
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ipofanes

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 03:55:46 am »
0

Recruiter seems to be an accelerator in a similar vein as Apprentice. Like Champion, it is difficult to prepare for it with stacking dead drawers.
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brokoli

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 04:01:57 am »
+1

All 8 cards we've seen from the preview are very interesting. This expansion looks very promising.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 04:05:18 am »
+2

So, Acting Troupe is the 3-word card? I guess written numbers and signs don't count. Overall I love the direction Renaissance is taking. And unlike Feast, Acting Troupe looks actually interesting. Now you can have engines that collapse on their own in the long run.

Sculptor looks pretty great. At its worst, it's a nonterminal Explorer, but those Villagers are of course much more flexible, and so is the gaining effect. I like how here again, a simple wording makes for a card with many decisions.

And Recruiter will obviously be insane in the early game, but as it - unlike e.g. Baron - trashes the card, that will soon stop. Re-buying Estates doesn't seem worth it to me. Not sure what I think of it other than that you will probably want these earliest you can.

Ethan

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 04:15:23 am »
+4

+2 card then trash a card is strong for me. Only Masquerade do this before. And there is villagers...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 04:17:50 am by Ethan »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 04:42:15 am »
0

Now you can have engines that collapse on their own in the long run.

These already exist with the concept of chains (Cultist or Sauna/Avanto). Even extra Labs make them choke.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2018, 05:13:13 am »
0

Is Acting Troupe actually playable online at the moment? In all my games I got either Recruiter or Sculptor.

EDIT: Ah, finally, in my 15th game or so. :)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 08:14:50 am by MrFrog »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2018, 05:16:27 am »
+3

My video review with commentary, games with markus and discussion featuring Stef and Donald X., among others, is up (or will be shortly):

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2018, 05:44:38 am »
0

Seer+Ferry event was kind of nice. So far, it seems most of the new cards depend on a working engine and +buy to be efficient.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 05:47:37 am by Malta1978 »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2018, 06:03:42 am »
0

Now you can have engines that collapse on their own in the long run.

These already exist with the concept of chains (Cultist or Sauna/Avanto). Even extra Labs make them choke.

Those choke. Having Cultist/Sauna choke on Labs is no different than Markets choking on Militias or any engine choking on green. Acting Troupe gives you decks which run out of fuel even if your deck itself stays the same.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2018, 06:04:52 am »
+7

Recruiter / Fortress. Awesome Engine or just Village Idiot on steroids?
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 06:07:50 am »
+1

So the Sculptor can either sculpt something now, or get paid a silver to sculpt something later. I like these minor thematic touches.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2018, 06:25:15 am »
+7

Also, if the box only includes coins to represent Villagers, I'm sure I won't be the only one to grab a pile of meeples from another game and use them instead :)
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2018, 06:34:06 am »
0

The closest thing to Villagers we currently have is Coin of the Realm. Villager tokens are coins. Neat.

Diadem basically turns Villagers into Coffers. The tokens are coins for both. Neat.

How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?


Sculptor + Cemetery is cute.

No +Buys yet, but I'm sure they'll be there. Same for non-attack interactions. I hope to see some of those soon because they're my favourite kind of cards.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 06:34:39 am »
0

Also, if the box only includes coins to represent Villagers, I'm sure I won't be the only one to grab a pile of meeples from another game and use them instead :)

Man, now I kind of wish the Villagers were Meeples...

Anyway, the main problem I see with the Villagers (or at least these cards anyway) is that they're inconsistent. In an engine you want a way to get +actions every turn, and these don't really provide that. But they'll be good in the opening I guess, especially Acting Troupe. Anyway, my opinion might change after playing with them.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 06:44:36 am »
+2


How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?


Donald made it sound like it was one mat divided in half, with a side for coffers and a side for villagers.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 06:59:06 am »
+3

Is it a bug that you can't use village tokens while you have no action cards in hand? Or that's the rule?
That does matter when playing diadem.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2018, 07:10:29 am »
+2

How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?
Donald made it sound like it was one mat divided in half, with a side for coffers and a side for villagers.
Correct, it's the size of the Seaside mats but divided into a top and bottom. The idea here is, you only want so much of your table space taken up with mats.
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2018, 07:11:36 am »
+1

Is it a bug that you can't use village tokens while you have no action cards in hand? Or that's the rule?
That does matter when playing diadem.
Did you try clicking on the icon? It may be a bug, or at least, a feature not implemented yet. The idea is to give you a way to use villagers even with no Action cards in hand, for both Diadem and Possession.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2018, 07:21:07 am »
+4

just gonna leave that here too
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2018, 07:31:28 am »
+1

So they are not called "Actors", but then you have Acting Troupe that gets you a bunch of Villagers. "Villagers" sounds so intuitive, it seems like an obvious naming choice in retrospect.

Acting Troupe as a replacement for village is tricky because they eventually run out, but then this is a push to try ending the game. Alternatively, you can use several to hoard Villagers in order to try pushing for a mega turn. They also work with Throne Room for 8 Villagers, one of which you can spend right away to continue the turn. Acting Troupe is also nice as a one-of in a deck that has villages already to help with reliability, kind of like Coin of the Realm.

Sculptor seems nice for getting early economy while trashing aggressively, and then it can move to gaining nice actions, possibly with previously acquired Villagers. Still, at $5 it is pricy.

Recruiter seems very powerful. Use it early to trash Estates and Coppers while getting some Villagers to have it go from a Moat to a Lab if need be. In a deck with +buy or +gain, you can use it as a source of actions for your 2-3 terminals so long as you trash a $5 every other turn. You even get to trash after the draw, though the trashing is mandatory.

All in all, I like these cards.
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Holunder9

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2018, 07:36:55 am »
0

I like them, especially Sculptor. I predicted something similar to Recruiter some time ago but then again Salvager for Villagers instead of Coins is kind of a natural idea.

Acting Troupe is also nice as a one-of in a deck that has villages already to help with reliability, kind of like Coin of the Realm.
I guess that adding reliability to an engine is the main use of the card.
While I don't think that is is impossible to run an engine with just Acting Troupe (with gainers it is certainly feasible) I guess that it will be harder than without an ordinary Village.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 07:41:36 am by Holunder9 »
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markus

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2018, 07:41:31 am »
0

Is it a bug that you can't use village tokens while you have no action cards in hand? Or that's the rule?
That does matter when playing diadem.
Did you try clicking on the icon? It may be a bug, or at least, a feature not implemented yet. The idea is to give you a way to use villagers even with no Action cards in hand, for both Diadem and Possession.

This feature is not yet implemented. See
Spending Villagers - edgecases


And believe me, you really don't want to get asked in every game to end your Action phase when you have Villagers, so that is the much better version for preview week.

You can click the icon while still having Action cards in hand to spend them.
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ossiangrr

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2018, 08:07:34 am »
0

How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?
Donald made it sound like it was one mat divided in half, with a side for coffers and a side for villagers.
Correct, it's the size of the Seaside mats but divided into a top and bottom. The idea here is, you only want so much of your table space taken up with mats.

All the more reason to use meeples (or VP tokens, or Embargo tokens, or the Guilds 2E Coffers-mat, if you want to use things already in the box), to avoid an issue if you accidentally knock the mat and can't remember whether you had 3 Coffers and 2 Villagers or the other way around in those few setups where it will matter.
It's not exactly a problem on the level of Terraforming Mars.. or a problem at all.. but there are still plenty of solutions to this non-problem :)

Maybe if Donald ever stops making expansions, someone could create a definitive single playmat with divided sections for all the possible special areas.  ;D
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2018, 08:12:37 am »
0

Recruiter / Fortress. Awesome Engine or just Village Idiot on steroids?
Just played that, I ended the game with 25 Villagers. There was also Priest...
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2018, 08:21:36 am »
+3

just gonna leave that here too


I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2018, 08:40:11 am »
+1

This seems like it's gonna be one of my favorite expansions much more than the last few.

Sculptor is such a cool card, I love seeing cards I am about to buy/not buy and then play incorrectly, more room to grow.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2018, 08:57:46 am »
0

When specifically can you spend a Villager?
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2018, 09:02:59 am »
0

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2018, 09:06:24 am »
0

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

That's good, I was kind of worried it was going to be like Coffers and you could only spend them at the beginning of the phase.

Asper

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2018, 09:10:10 am »
+2

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

That's good, I was kind of worried it was going to be like Coffers and you could only spend them at the beginning of the phase.

Producing Actions you can only use from next turn on DOES sound interesting for one card or so! Thinking about it, I wonder whether there will be a Treasure that gives you Villagers.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2018, 09:13:19 am »
+1

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

Sounds like more emphasis on clarity over technicality. A game like MTG would shudder at such a thing, but I'm ok with this direction.

So you can play Smithy, draw 2 cards, spend a Villager, then draw a third.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2018, 09:21:17 am »
+6

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

Sounds like more emphasis on clarity over technicality. A game like MTG would shudder at such a thing, but I'm ok with this direction.

So you can play Smithy, draw 2 cards, spend a Villager, then draw a third.

You can go to the bathroom in the middle of resolving a Smithy. I'm sure people will manage.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2018, 09:34:51 am »
0

I love how flavor-friendly Recruiter's synergies are (despite being the standard trash-for-benefit synergies):  The best place to recruit from is the Fortress.  The Border Village is also a useful target (someone has to guard that border).  Also, you can Recruit from your starting Estates but not your starting Coppers (at least not effectively).

Of course, this breaks down if you start recruiting Rats (maybe he's friends with the Pied Piper or something).
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2018, 09:43:23 am »
+1

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

Herald + Diadem sometimes make it beneficial to spend them in the middle of an action play. I wonder if this gets implemented.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2018, 09:55:42 am »
0

When specifically can you spend a Villager?

At any time during your Action phase. Any time. A-N-Y time!

Herald + Diadem sometimes make it beneficial to spend them in the middle of an action play. I wonder if this gets implemented.

The idea is to be able to spend them when playing Diadem in the action phase. And before ending the action phase when you might want to play Diadem in the buy phase or are worried about opponent's Possession.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2018, 09:58:59 am »
0

My first game today had Fortress, Priest, Recruiter, and Storyteller and was ridiculous.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2018, 10:27:30 am »
+4



I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.

thats fine you can find the video in my youtube channel. no need to click on the link. ;)
the clickbaity title is supposed to be funny since they are uncommon for dominion content. Bu ti guess by explaining it now the joke is gone.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2018, 10:33:13 am »
0

So, I like how these cards make Villagers different enough from Villages and open up different strategies, so if both come up in the same game they're each worth considering, but I'm surprised you can get so many of them:
Recruiter / Fortress. Awesome Engine or just Village Idiot on steroids?
Just played that, I ended the game with 25 Villagers.
In the IRL set that's 25 Coffers or Villagers other players can't get, right? Only 10 left. Especially in 4+ player games this might be an issue? I get that these 3 cards don't give that much in the way of draw or payload so you shouldn't get lots of them, but some newer players might anyway. Like those who try to get so many they can ignore Villages altogether (though at great early game cost).
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2018, 10:41:54 am »
+1



I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.

thats fine you can find the video in my youtube channel. no need to click on the link. ;)
the clickbaity title is supposed to be funny since they are uncommon for dominion content. Bu ti guess by explaining it now the joke is gone.

You will find that on fds, explaining jokes makes them funnier.
Yes,that itself is an in-joke here. And I just explained it.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2018, 10:45:00 am »
+5

So, I like how these cards make Villagers different enough from Villages and open up different strategies, so if both come up in the same game they're each worth considering, but I'm surprised you can get so many of them:
Recruiter / Fortress. Awesome Engine or just Village Idiot on steroids?
Just played that, I ended the game with 25 Villagers.
In the IRL set that's 25 Coffers or Villagers other players can't get, right? Only 10 left. Especially in 4+ player games this might be an issue? I get that these 3 cards don't give that much in the way of draw or payload so you shouldn't get lots of them, but some newer players might anyway. Like those who try to get so many they can ignore Villages altogether (though at great early game cost).

I am certain Villagers are not limited just because the physical tokens shipped with Renaissance are.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2018, 10:54:29 am »
+2

I'm not sure I appreciate the two-sided mat thing.  In practice, we just never use most of the mats.  Sometimes when the play-space gets crowded, we take out tavern mats, and use them for everything--reserve cards, duration cards, set-aside cards, all the tokens.  Using the same tokens to represent two things requires us to use particular mats, and also requires us to keep the mat organized.

Of course, I'm sure this doesn't matter in many games, if a kingdom only contains coffers or only contains villagers.  And there might be some games where we'd just use debt or VP tokens to distinguish coffers from villagers.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2018, 11:00:31 am »
+3

Recruiter seems ridiculous to me. I just played one game with it. I opened Recruitor/Nothing and quickly trashed out my estates while rolling up to 6 villagers and getting a second Recruiter. I then got Envoys for draw and Bandits to gain me gold plus more Recruiters. I was then able to fire a Magic Lamp pretty quickly with Recruiter/Envoy/Bandit/Copper/Gold/Lamp and around that point my opponent resigned. They had gone for a pretty nice-looking Talisman/Experiment strategy and at that point I was worried I'd done a "first time playing with Rats" kind of mistake and that my deck would die, so I played it out against the bot. I trashed through the rest of my coppers occasionally trashing a gold to add extra villagers. I had 6 provinces after T12. I'm sure if I did it again I could do it a few turns faster. I know ML will have helped me speed up, but I don't think it was key at all. I think I'd have slowed down by a turn or maybe two without, but I think I could make that time back up with practice. I've never played with a card that seemed so OP from the word go. I finished with more than 10 spare villagers, only ever purchased terminal actions (Druid was strictly a soft terminal as it had Field's Gift). It didn't feel like dominion at all. I'm psyched about this expansion in general but I'm a little worried that villagers make some really simplistic decks very powerful. They're crack for terminal draw, with which you normally have to be very careful, and the fact that Recruiter is terminal draw (and trashing) itself makes it ludicrously self-synergistic. Maybe this was a really odd game and actually you can barely ever do this. We'll see.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 11:02:06 am by cascadestyler »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2018, 11:04:49 am »
+4

I am guessing there will be some cards that hand out coffers and villagers; hence, the villagers being shown before coffers tomorrow even though we already know about coffers.

Also, dual functionability of tokens would make even more sense because you only need one set of tokens when using those cards. Simplicity and efficiency seems to be a theme in this set, which is welcome after Nocturne (a great set, but it can be fiddly IRL).
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2018, 11:08:51 am »
+1

Herald + Diadem sometimes make it beneficial to spend them in the middle of an action play. I wonder if this gets implemented.

Right when you play Diadem in your Action phase, before it gets executed, you get asked how many Villagers to spend. Stef figured that was the only case where you may need to spend Villagers for an immediate effect in the Action phase. In the paper game, you would play Herald, it would reveal/play a Black Market/Storyteller and you would then play a Silver, convert 2 Villagers to Actions and then play Diadem. Online, spending the Villagers becomes part of playing Diadem (if it happens during the Action phase).

All the other reasons to spend Villagers could wait until 'nothing important is going on'. Implementing "can happen any time" effects in games is a real nuisance, both from the mechanics view as well as the UI view. As markus pointed out, a good way to give you the option to spend Villagers when your Action phase is about to end is not yet implemented.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2018, 11:18:03 am »
0

I really like these cards.  Acting Troupe seems like it might suffice as a village in at least some engines--how many times do you play each village anyways?  Hey wait, we have statistics for this, and the average is between 3 and 4.  So Acting Troupe is right at that edge.  But also, it gives me dreams of playing a counter strategy that simply waits out my opponent until they run out of villager steam.

Sculptor... I once had a fan card that would gain cards to hand, but would be non-terminal only if it gained a treasure.  It was terrible, but I loved it.  Sculptor lives out that dream, while also being non-terrible.  Sculptor looks pretty good next to Explorer, but then what doesn't.  It does not look as good next to Cobbler.

Recruiter looks bonkers, like a Sentry that trashes from hand instead of from deck.  Curious that the +2 cards is before the trashing, since an obvious nerf would be to swap those two instructions.  It makes me wonder if it's not quite as strong as it first looks.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2018, 11:23:01 am »
0

I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.

Even if it's obvious ironic humor?
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2018, 11:34:14 am »
+4

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2018, 11:34:45 am »
0

How do the tokens do double duty? Two mats? One mat with two sides? Double-sided coins?
Donald made it sound like it was one mat divided in half, with a side for coffers and a side for villagers.
Correct, it's the size of the Seaside mats but divided into a top and bottom. The idea here is, you only want so much of your table space taken up with mats.
So when I want to access Villagers but the mat has its coffer side up, I have to flip it over?
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2018, 11:36:53 am »
+2

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2018, 11:37:14 am »
+2

I don't think it's top and bottom as in flipping the mat, I think it's just divided into two sections on the same side. But I haven't seen it so I don't know for sure.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2018, 11:53:38 am »
+1

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2018, 12:03:51 pm »
0

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2018, 12:22:03 pm »
0

Also, if the box only includes coins to represent Villagers, I'm sure I won't be the only one to grab a pile of meeples from another game and use them instead :)
Same here. I get why they stuck with tokens but meeples are just easier to recognize on a quick glance over the table.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2018, 12:33:01 pm »
+8

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.

GUYS I FOUND A USE FOR EMBARGO TOKENS!!
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2018, 12:38:47 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yes, this was the first thing I thought. I think it could be the strongest 5/2 opening in the game, with the possible exception of Mountebank.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2018, 12:41:18 pm »
+1

I love the idea of Villagers being little meeple <3
Totally going to do this.

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.
I feel you, I'm not too fond of "Coffers" either. I never heard of this word, but more importantly, it will make my Guilds cards feel weirdly incompatible with Renaissance. That's a real bummer.

From a business perspective, it does make sense, of course. Up to now, we have been pampered with ever-new tokens, and up until Adventures they all used to be metal, too. Did we really need all those Embargo tokens? Probably not. So I can understand why one would want to use the same tokens for more things (and coin tokens have been used for various purposes from the start). I kind of expect Renaissance isn't going to be the last we've seen of coin tokens.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2018, 12:51:38 pm »
+2

I am guessing there will be some cards that hand out coffers and villagers; hence, the villagers being shown before coffers tomorrow even though we already know about coffers.

Also, dual functionability of tokens would make even more sense because you only need one set of tokens when using those cards. Simplicity and efficiency seems to be a theme in this set, which is welcome after Nocturne (a great set, but it can be fiddly IRL).

I like this metagaming of predictions based on the order Donald did previews in!
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2018, 01:19:21 pm »
0

To be fair, I believe Adventures previews did Reserve cards before Duration cards.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2018, 01:29:00 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yes, this was the first thing I thought. I think it could be the strongest 5/2 opening in the game, with the possible exception of Mountebank.

Sentry and Vampire seem stronger, at the very least.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2018, 01:32:34 pm »
0

Recruiter looks disgustingly strong on a 5/2.

Yeah. At first I thought it was super mega-strong, but I realised that was just because I got 2/5 on my first game. It's still strong for sure, maybe even very strong, but as a 5/2 opener it's just utterly and completely ludicrous. Only Mountebank pops out at me as reliably stronger and I'd even consider Recruiter better than Mountebank on a 5/2 on a few boards. I can't think of another $5 for which that's ever the case.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2018, 01:59:24 pm »
+1

Is it a bug that you can't use village tokens while you have no action cards in hand? Or that's the rule?
That does matter when playing diadem.
Did you try clicking on the icon? It may be a bug, or at least, a feature not implemented yet. The idea is to give you a way to use villagers even with no Action cards in hand, for both Diadem and Possession.

It would be easier to delete Tournament and Possession from the game than to fix this...
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2018, 02:01:20 pm »
0

On a serious note, would it break anything if you were allowed to spend your Villagers at any phase of your turn you feel like?  This avoids the online "do you want to end your action phase" silliness.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2018, 02:08:13 pm »
+1

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2018, 02:48:59 pm »
+2

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2018, 03:21:56 pm »
+6

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

It could matter in terms of if there's always a clear definition of which player is allowed to "act" at any given moment. MTG has the "priority" system which details exactly when a player is allowed to do anything at all; but a lot of newer players who don't understand that system mistakenly think that there is an element of "reaction time" to the game; where you might need to speak up within the next few seconds or you've lost your chance to do something.

It shouldn't matter in Dominion; but there could now exist a situation where a player plays an attack card, and then at the same moment the other player wants to reveal a reaction while the current turn player wants to spend a Villager. If it is really allowed "at any time", then there exists a time in the game where either player is allowed to act, and thus it can come down to which player chooses to speak first. Luckily, it shouldn't ever matter at all...

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2018, 03:40:30 pm »
+1

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Yes, this doesn't seem that far-fetched. We already have a situation where it matters that a Pirate Ship or Minion player chooses what to do after the other players choose their Reactions. In this case, it's clear that you can spend the Villager token before playing (or not playing) another Torturer. But you're not spending it in the middle of resolving an Action, so it doesn't really touch on my question, I think.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2018, 03:44:45 pm »
0

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

To maximize coins specifically, or maximize purchasing power? If you want to maximize coins, you should probably trash Princess with Priest....
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2018, 03:51:07 pm »
0

Played a game where I had the following cards in my last turn (and the actions to play them). I had drawn my deck.

Tournament, Recruiter, Princess, Priest, Gold, Silver, Diadem.

Which cards should I play and/or trash to maximize coins? I think I figured it out.

To maximize coins specifically, or maximize purchasing power? If you want to maximize coins, you should probably trash Princess with Priest....

Right, what I meant was maximize purchasing power. Trashing the Princess is not going to be the right move, and we can actually ignore the Princess.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2018, 03:54:36 pm »
0

So when does it actually matter that you can spend Villager tokens even in the middle of resolving an Action card? I guess it has to be with Diadem being played with Black Market, since you don't know what you'll draw from the BM deck. With Storyteller + Diadem you can just spend the tokens before playing Storyteller. But with Storyteller + Venture hitting Diadem, it matters. I don't know if there are any other situations.

It could matter in terms of if there's always a clear definition of which player is allowed to "act" at any given moment. MTG has the "priority" system which details exactly when a player is allowed to do anything at all; but a lot of newer players who don't understand that system mistakenly think that there is an element of "reaction time" to the game; where you might need to speak up within the next few seconds or you've lost your chance to do something.

It shouldn't matter in Dominion; but there could now exist a situation where a player plays an attack card, and then at the same moment the other player wants to reveal a reaction while the current turn player wants to spend a Villager. If it is really allowed "at any time", then there exists a time in the game where either player is allowed to act, and thus it can come down to which player chooses to speak first. Luckily, it shouldn't ever matter at all...

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Maybe "any time you could spend an Action or Buy, if you had one" works.  But really, just delete Tournament and Possession...
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2018, 04:12:20 pm »
+1

I suppose you could play a Torturer, and then spend a Villager to increase the chances that your opponent takes a Curse rather than discards; because you're implying that another Torturer is coming. You could do this as a bluff if you didn't draw another Torturer.

Yes, this doesn't seem that far-fetched. We already have a situation where it matters that a Pirate Ship or Minion player chooses what to do after the other players choose their Reactions. In this case, it's clear that you can spend the Villager token before playing (or not playing) another Torturer. But you're not spending it in the middle of resolving an Action, so it doesn't really touch on my question, I think.

Yes you are... you play Torturer, draw 3 cards, then spend an action token, then your opponent deals with discarding / gaining a curse.  You spend the Villager in the middle of resolving Torturer; it wasn't done resolving until your opponent dealt with it.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2018, 04:33:33 pm »
0

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the lack of a specific timing in this context. Because it's really hard to think of situations where it matters.

It is something I really dislike in other games though... Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time. And it's to your advantage if a different opponent challenges it instead of you, so you wait and hope that another opponent will instead. But then everyone is doing that same thing. It sucks.

But I don't see that being an issue here. No one is going to complain that they didn't get to reveal their Moat before their opponent spent a Villager.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2018, 04:41:13 pm »
+1

I am guessing there will be some cards that hand out coffers and villagers; hence, the villagers being shown before coffers tomorrow even though we already know about coffers.

Also, dual functionability of tokens would make even more sense because you only need one set of tokens when using those cards. Simplicity and efficiency seems to be a theme in this set, which is welcome after Nocturne (a great set, but it can be fiddly IRL).

I wonder if one of the reasons for using the same tokens is that there will be Diadem-like cards that convert Villagers to Coffers (or vice versa). In that way, you just have to slide the token over. 

(a clever solution could have been to use differently sided tokens that you flip; but then you are already using coin token from Guilds, so need to change that rule)

That's another potential reason to be previewing Villagers before Coffers, and provides the new design space that explains why Coffers are being revisited.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2018, 05:34:22 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.

In a multiplayer game, you could probably make some case that you signal something to the player to your left by using a Villager. Then, they take the better decision and can attack the 3rd player better, who is your fiercest opponent for first place,...
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2018, 05:41:04 pm »
+3

acting troupe <3 <3 <3
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2018, 06:00:59 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...
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Donald X.

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2018, 06:01:52 pm »
+2

To be clear, I'm not complaining about the lack of a specific timing in this context. Because it's really hard to think of situations where it matters.

It is something I really dislike in other games though... Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time. And it's to your advantage if a different opponent challenges it instead of you, so you wait and hope that another opponent will instead. But then everyone is doing that same thing. It sucks.

But I don't see that being an issue here. No one is going to complain that they didn't get to reveal their Moat before their opponent spent a Villager.
In general "any time" is bad to do. It opens you up to timing problems and confusing situations. Sometimes it's safe though and this is one of those cases. Only one player can use villagers at once. It's moot that they have the +1 Action, except for when it comes time for them to play another card (yes or end the phase, for Possession). But saying "when it's a time when it would be okay for you to play a card" is way less simple for no benefit here.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2018, 06:03:57 pm »
+12

I have made it a habit not to click on links announcing that an element at a particular index of a list was soandso or would make me do thisandthat.
Don't miss the VIDEO THAT ASPER CAN'T WATCH!!!
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2018, 06:06:13 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.


Unless you are bluffing... make your opponent think you have another Torturer when you don't. But then, your opponent should be smart enough to realize that if you really did have another Torturer, it would be better to wait to spend the Villager until after they've made their choice. So it really just comes down to a mind game.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2018, 06:08:00 pm »
+3

All the more reason to use meeples (or VP tokens, or Embargo tokens, or the Guilds 2E Coffers-mat, if you want to use things already in the box), to avoid an issue if you accidentally knock the mat and can't remember whether you had 3 Coffers and 2 Villagers or the other way around in those few setups where it will matter.
I have played many games with Villagers and Coffers, with Coffers and VP tokens, with Villagers and VP tokens, and some with all three. It is so great not having to reach for a different kind of token. It's clear immediately. No regrets there. Yes there is also, this way there get to be 35 tokens in the box, without charging more.

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2018, 06:08:46 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...

Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #84 on: September 25, 2018, 06:09:02 pm »
0

In a 2-player game you should prefer to leave your opponent in the dark and only use the Villager after your opponent has discarded or not. That's similar to not playing all your Villages / other draw before playing the first Torturer.


Unless you are bluffing... make your opponent think you have another Torturer when you don't. But then, your opponent should be smart enough to realize that if you really did have another Torturer, it would be better to wait to spend the Villager until after they've made their choice. So it really just comes down to a mind game.
Ok that could work if you also play with an alt that still has a lower level.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #85 on: September 25, 2018, 06:41:53 pm »
0

Coup, a game that I might otherwise like, suffers from this greatly. After a player makes a play, any other player can challenge it. But there's no actual rule about whose turn it is to take the act of challenging it; it's just any opponent at any time.
Wow! The stakes for challenging or for being challenged in Coup are so high that we've found people rarely do things that are going to be challenged, and rarely challenge. And different people know different things so have different willingness to challenge. I'm not sure I've ever seen two people want to challenge at once!

Now, the follow mechanic in Tiny Epic Galaxies. That's an entirely different kettle of fish...

Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.

I've never had this problem in my play group. If someone thinks an action should be challenged, they go for it. I guess it's the difference between playing for fun vs being competitive.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #86 on: September 25, 2018, 07:46:42 pm »
0

Still loving what I'm seeing of the new cards in Renaissance.

Still not feeling the love for the coin token -> Coffers terminology, nor for yet another mat. Nor for using coin tokens as Villagers. Nor for relying on tokens never accidentally straying across a line on a bit of cardboard.

Assuming my other players agree, I think I'll pick up some small meeples to use instead.

You could just cut the mats in half.
Or use the square VP mats from Prosperity or really whatever you want as another mat. Or use some other form of token for villagers/coffers (like you said, meeples). The beauty of playing IRL is that you can do whatever you want.

GUYS I FOUND A USE FOR EMBARGO TOKENS!!

Also Pirate Tokens.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #87 on: September 25, 2018, 08:42:47 pm »
0

[Coup sidetrack]
Well that's kind of the point... you don't want to challenge. But you want your opponent to. And you might reluctantly challenge only if no opponent is willing to. But then how do you determine if no opponent is willing to? There's no set way to know.
If you're claiming Assassin, Contessa or Captain, it's obvious who ought to be doing the challenging. If you're claiming Duke, there are probably only a couple of people in a position to be truly suspicious, and thanks to Ambassador, etc. some will be more suspicious than others. It's only really Ambassador that's a suspicion free-for-all.

In practice, at any given moment, just assume you're the only person thinking of challenging and you won't go far wrong.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2018, 03:36:07 am »
+4

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.

So this edition doesn't come with hidden spy cameras that report unorthodox token methods to HQ for corrective action.  Good to know.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #89 on: September 26, 2018, 04:58:20 am »
+6

Of course it's fine if you use whatever substitute you prefer.

So this edition doesn't come with hidden spy cameras that report unorthodox token methods to HQ for corrective action.  Good to know.
Freedom is the freedom to use meeples as villager tokens.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2018, 09:38:31 am »
+5

Recruiter is the game-warping card of the set so far.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2018, 09:55:26 am »
0

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

It feels to me as though the main benefit of Villagers will be consistency that enables otherwise awkward strategies. Two Labs are better than a Village and a Smithy, but Smithies plus a way to start each turn with a Villager or two in hand could be better still.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2018, 10:23:01 am »
+2

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2018, 11:11:01 am »
+4

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2018, 12:08:15 pm »
+1

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.

Sure. My point is itís very very good.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2018, 04:21:57 pm »
+2

What do you expect to do with it? Trash your Estates and accelerate by not needing villages for a few rounds, or use gainers to feed it?

Both?

It can get bonkers with gainers in particular though, especially silver gainers. If you can feed Recruiter consistently, your terminal space utterly explodes, sometimes essentially to Champion level, and it draws.

"Draws." But doesn't actually increase your hand size.

Sure. My point is itís very very good.
Totally agree, the card is totally crazy, trashes and yields a zillion Villagers.
Just buy a couple of them to get a non-terminal Masquerade on steroids. Once you are thin you can trash the superfluous Recruiters and feed the last one stuff to run your engine. You need no villages at all, just some draw and payload.

I don't think it is necessarily Cultist/Rebuild level overpowered though, just very strong and flexible. And most importantly, at least to me, the most unique and fun card so far.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2018, 06:29:07 pm »
0

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2018, 06:39:02 pm »
0

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #98 on: September 26, 2018, 07:57:51 pm »
+2

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #99 on: September 26, 2018, 08:53:49 pm »
+4

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #100 on: September 26, 2018, 09:11:22 pm »
0

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

But they don't let you play any two terminals. (Unless there's a gainer which gives +1 Action. Is there?) Oh wait, I'm stupid. I don't know how to classify them.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:17:55 pm by vishwathg »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2018, 09:18:50 pm »
+1

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2018, 09:48:53 pm »
+11

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think it’s a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant don’t.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

To borrow an old saying: Knowledge is knowing that Silk Merchant is a village. Wisdom is not trying to use it as one.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 08:37:14 am by LostPhoenix »
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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #103 on: September 26, 2018, 10:37:57 pm »
+7

Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

To borrow an old saying: Knowledge is knowing that Silk Road is a village. Wisdom is not trying to use it as one.
...and true mastery is realizing that Silk Road isn't an action at all!

(sorry, sorry)
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greybirdofprey

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #104 on: September 27, 2018, 04:07:07 am »
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Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

To borrow an old saying: Knowledge is knowing that Silk Road is a village. Wisdom is not trying to use it as one.
...and true mastery is realizing that Silk Road isn't an action at all!

(sorry, sorry)

Mountain Village is an obvious yes.
Sculptor is a no as it only provides at most one Villager on each play.

Acting Troupe and Recruiter are harder, they can provide more than one action on each play, but Acting Troupe's actions are limited by the Acting Troupe piles and Recruiter's actions are limited by every pile with a value of $1 or more. Although, looking at what my program already has, Procession has the 'village' tag, and it requires an action sacrifice to do so, so Recruiter would be a 'yes'.
By the same reasoning Recruiter should be a village, even if there's only ten of them.

Silk Merchant is hardest, as it doesn't give Villagers on play, but on gain/trash. With Lurker or a gainer + Watchtower it can be. Intuitively I would say 'no', but I want a better reason.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

Yes. With the inclusion of 'assuming there's cards with +1 action', so Throne Room variants and Teacher/Lost Arts also count.

Although in my generator there's a bunch of properties, like 'village', and you give it a minimum and maximum for those kinds of cards, so I can say 'I want 1 to 3' villages and it will give a kingdom with one of those amounts (if possible).
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LastFootnote

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2018, 12:51:29 pm »
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When counting up villages in the set, I believe Donald X. counted Acting Troupe and Recruiter, but not Silk Merchant or Sculptor.

If I used a randomizer and specified at least one village, and the only village was Acting Troupe or Recruiter, I'd be like, "Yeah, OK, this'll be interesting." If I got Silk Merchant or Sculptor, I'd re-roll. They're not villages for practical purposes in most games.
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faust

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2018, 01:00:55 pm »
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Silk Merchant is about as much of a village as Pixie.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Dwhit

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2018, 06:30:28 pm »
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Come to think of it, I will have to think about which Villager-giving cards count as 'Villages' in my random kingdom generator.

I think itís a case-by-case thing. Acting Troupe and Recruiter count as villages. Sculptor and Silk Merchant donít.

I think they should all count. They all enable more than one terminal action to be played in the same turn.

For pedantic purposes, sure. For a kingdom generator, no.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

To borrow an old saying: Knowledge is knowing that Silk Road is a village. Wisdom is not trying to use it as one.
...and true mastery is realizing that Silk Road isn't an action at all!

(sorry, sorry)

Mountain Village is an obvious yes.
Sculptor is a no as it only provides at most one Villager on each play.

Acting Troupe and Recruiter are harder, they can provide more than one action on each play, but Acting Troupe's actions are limited by the Acting Troupe piles and Recruiter's actions are limited by every pile with a value of $1 or more. Although, looking at what my program already has, Procession has the 'village' tag, and it requires an action sacrifice to do so, so Recruiter would be a 'yes'.
By the same reasoning Recruiter should be a village, even if there's only ten of them.

Silk Merchant is hardest, as it doesn't give Villagers on play, but on gain/trash. With Lurker or a gainer + Watchtower it can be. Intuitively I would say 'no', but I want a better reason.

Isn't the purpose of "always include a Village" in a Kingdom generator more or less to "always provide me with a way to play multiple terminals per turn"?

Yes. With the inclusion of 'assuming there's cards with +1 action', so Throne Room variants and Teacher/Lost Arts also count.

Although in my generator there's a bunch of properties, like 'village', and you give it a minimum and maximum for those kinds of cards, so I can say 'I want 1 to 3' villages and it will give a kingdom with one of those amounts (if possible).

If you classify tactician as a village then sculptor should be as well.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Renaissance Previews #2: Acting Troupe, Sculptor, Recruiter
« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2018, 07:19:34 pm »
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Now we just need tokens called "splits".
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