Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10  All

Author Topic: What other games are as good as Dominion?  (Read 77312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Respect: +946
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #75 on: May 07, 2012, 08:43:45 pm »
0

I just discovered Small World, which is basically Risk minus all the shitty things about Risk. It's fast-paced, because the goal is having a lot of territory quickly rather than building up to a world-conquering endgame. It's harder to get locked out because you can always go into decline and start over. The luck factor is mostly mitigated, but with just enough left in to preserve the fun element to rolling in Risk. Finally, the game is different every time because of how the races change. I love it.

Also, my group has started playing Sentinels of the Multiverse, which is a little bit like Munchkin if it took itself more seriously. It's cool because all the players work together against the game like in Pandemic. Games like that are great if your group tends to get competitive to the point of not having fun, or to cool down after a game got too competitive. The only thing about Sentinels is apparently once you've beaten all the bad guys a certain number of times the game is not that fun anymore. But there are expansions, extant and forthcoming.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2850
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2012, 12:12:00 am »
+1

My brother loves Settlers of Catan.  At first I didn't like it because of the diplomacy, but then our extended family realized the diplomacy is degenerate - if you adopt a tit-for-tat strategy with the thief, the strategy dominates.  (Computer programs playing multiple games of Prisoner's Dilemma also are optimized by the tit-for-tat strategy, and a decision between two players whether to thief eachother is modelled by Prisoner's Dilemma).
I've moved on to disliking it because of the luck.  A game we played the other night went about 40 turns without a roll of 6, ticking off my little brother who likes the game more than anyone else since he built on that.
I feel like there's other games with better diplomacy and other games with better gameplay.  But Catan is great as a gateway drug to euro games because it's so easy to pick up.  And that also makes it great for families.

I enjoyed Smallworld a lot.  The luck factor is virtually nonexistent there, it's virtually chess consistency.  I enjoyed 1v1 games a lot, my playing partner doesn't play with me anymore so I traded Smallworld for Dominion Base Set.

I need to trade Axis and Allies for something.  Is there a site for board game swapping somewhere?
Logged

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1918
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2317
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2012, 04:28:06 am »
0

Computer programs playing multiple games of Prisoner's Dilemma also are optimized by the tit-for-tat strategy

That's a slight overreach: iterated Prisoner's Dilemma is a hard problem that doesn't obviously have a best strategy.  Tit-for-tat is pretty handy in practice though.

I believe BGG has a trading system, but I don't know how effective it is.
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3331
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2012, 07:14:08 am »
0

I agree a lot with Settlers being a good gateway game. Also, because of its popularity there's a decent chance any group you're looking to invade with your vast amount of board games has heard of it and maybe played it. This can save a lot of time and animosity against new games.

I also found out that you shouldn't be afraid to try out new games. A lot of excellent games out there that lie beyond the horizon of Settlers aren't actually that difficult to teach/learn. A telltale sign of a good game is when you can kind of figure out what to do in one turn.

Stone Age is one of my go to games for this: Every turn the same options are available, although the cards and buildings differ. But all you need is a quick lookup of "what does this do?" and you can continue with the game. A game like Caylus is on the other end of the spectrum, because the landscape is constantly changing and players need to adapt to the new buildings that are available.

And to answer the title question: 7 Wonders.
Boo to the naysayers, 7 Wonders has that rare quality that I never mind it and always enjoy a game of it.
I remember when this game just came out and was hyped over the moon and of course I jumped in as well.
Now, a year later, we can look back calmly. And still I'm not disappointed by 7W.
If a game can keep me interested for so long (a year is pretty long in the boardgaming world with the sheer amount of games they're putting out) it deserves a spot in my top X. 7W is certainly up there, along with Dominion. Dominion has kept my attention since I first played it over a year ago.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
  • Respect: +2202
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2012, 08:54:56 am »
0

I just discovered Small World, which is basically Risk minus all the shitty things about Risk. It's fast-paced, because the goal is having a lot of territory quickly rather than building up to a world-conquering endgame. It's harder to get locked out because you can always go into decline and start over.

Another way to avoid getting locked out is to pull up all your troops and conquer a different part of the board. This is a good way to get around someone who reinforces his "front line." You can swoop in along his entry point. If you are in need of single-token spaces (as Orcs or Sorcerers), this move can work. Usually, though, it's not worth the points you lose for abandoning those territories, but if you stuck between two powerhouses that have made it difficult for you to spread out, this is certainly a viable option. It's also an effective way to beat down the lead player with a surprise attack.
Logged
A man has no signature

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3598
  • Respect: +6055
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2012, 12:14:32 pm »
+2

I just played Settelers of Catan with some friends, pretty good, some good strategic value, but mostly dice luck.
Nowhere near close to Dominion, though. :)
Catan's skill comes in opening placement (which is rather more than just getting all the resources, or the most pips), mid-game priorities (you often have to give up something you want for something you need), and social skills (trading effectively).

I think Power Grid is fairly deep.  Recognizing which power plants to "settle" for and which are not is part of the game.  Sometimes the right decision loses because some godly plant arrives, but, hey, Treasure Map...
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2850
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2012, 01:13:53 pm »
0

Computer programs playing multiple games of Prisoner's Dilemma also are optimized by the tit-for-tat strategy

That's a slight overreach: iterated Prisoner's Dilemma is a hard problem that doesn't obviously have a best strategy.  Tit-for-tat is pretty handy in practice though.

I believe BGG has a trading system, but I don't know how effective it is.
I read about some experiment somewhere where tit-for-tat was a frontrunner.  I'm okay with a slight overreach, my point is that the diplomacy gets watered down.

Settlers does have lots of strategy, it's just a very Treasure Mappy game.
Logged

AHoppy

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
  • Respect: +529
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2012, 08:12:45 pm »
0

So i just got a $25amazon gift card (but willing to spend a little more) and was looking into Pandemic or Power Grid.  Which one has more replay value?  Because I think that is the biggest thing about Dominion, is that it never gets old.

eHalcyon

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8689
  • Respect: +9177
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2012, 10:45:09 pm »
+1

Catan's skill comes in opening placement (which is rather more than just getting all the resources, or the most pips), mid-game priorities (you often have to give up something you want for something you need), and social skills (trading effectively).

Agreed about the placement.  You really have to evaluate the board.  Sometimes it's worth grabbing a 4 or 10 tile for a scarce resource (e.g. a brick tile where the others are 2/3/11/12), or taking a place of less value that gives you the best chance of expanding to another good area (or cutting off another player's expansion).  I usually try for balanced placements, trying to hit most or all of the resources if I can get them with decent pips.  My favourite opening is a desperation ploy though -- grabbing a 2:1 port and building almost solely for that resource.

Cities and Knights adds even more to the opening strategy.  You really, really want to hit Ore, Sheep and Wheat so you can get and activate a knight ASAP.  At the same time, you usually want to get your city on at least one of the Commodity-producing tiles.

I suddenly want to play Catan again.
Logged

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3598
  • Respect: +6055
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #84 on: May 10, 2012, 09:42:38 am »
+2

I suddenly want to play Catan again.
Catan is the game that I most want to play that I end up enjoying the least.

Power Grid is the game I least want to play that I end up enjoying the most.
Logged

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
  • Respect: +2202
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #85 on: May 10, 2012, 10:39:59 am »
+1

So i just got a $25amazon gift card (but willing to spend a little more) and was looking into Pandemic or Power Grid.  Which one has more replay value?  Because I think that is the biggest thing about Dominion, is that it never gets old.

I'd go with Pandemic.

I love Power Grid, but I generally do not play it more than once in a session. Even if I'm in the mood for a second game, I have to convince the other players.

I've noticed that Pandemic lends itself to more replays. You failed! Okay, try it again. Actually, many co-op games are that way. You failed, so now you HAVE to play again. It seems that when you win, you're less inclined to immediately play another game. But that may just be me.

Although, Power Grid is fun, so you should definitely consider getting that at some point.
Logged
A man has no signature

AHoppy

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 978
  • Respect: +529
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2012, 11:09:33 am »
0

So i just got a $25amazon gift card (but willing to spend a little more) and was looking into Pandemic or Power Grid.  Which one has more replay value?  Because I think that is the biggest thing about Dominion, is that it never gets old.

I've noticed that Pandemic lends itself to more replays. You failed! Okay, try it again. Actually, many co-op games are that way. You failed, so now you HAVE to play again. It seems that when you win, you're less inclined to immediately play another game. But that may just be me.

I was thinking that pandemic would have less replay value because a) either we get frustrated at it and stop playing or b) we become too good at it and it becomes less of a challenge.  I've only played it about 3 times, and it was 2 player and we won all 3 times... so that's the only reason I hesitate.  Another question is How long is a game of Power Grid/Pandemic?  Because the people I play with are less inclined to play games like Agricola (my personal favorite) and Puerto Rico now that they're used to short Dominion games...

Geronimoo

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1054
  • Respect: +856
    • View Profile
    • Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2012, 11:14:25 am »
0

I haven't played Pandemic yet, but I have played Space Alert which is an awesome co-op game. If you like a little chaos in your gaming, definitely get that one (it's by Vlaada Chvatil who also designed Galaxy Trucker)
Logged

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
  • Respect: +2202
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #88 on: May 10, 2012, 12:17:06 pm »
0

Quote
I was thinking that pandemic would have less replay value because a) either we get frustrated at it and stop playing or b) we become too good at it and it becomes less of a challenge.  I've only played it about 3 times, and it was 2 player and we won all 3 times... so that's the only reason I hesitate.  Another question is How long is a game of Power Grid/Pandemic?  Because the people I play with are less inclined to play games like Agricola (my personal favorite) and Puerto Rico now that they're used to short Dominion games...

I guess it depends on how one approaches failure.

In most co-op games, when our group loses, we say, "Well, that sucked. Let's see if we can learn from our mistakes."

Granted, if you don't make mistakes and get trounced anyway, then that doesn't really encourage you to try again. When you first start a game, there are plenty of learning experiences. So, it's easy at first to say, "That didn't work; what if we try it this way?"

I think the length of the game matters too. I'm more inclined to play another game of Red November than I am with Shadows over Camelot or Lord of the Rings.

But I do agree that some defeats are more crushing than others. I love Ghost Stories, but every game is so draining, especially when you lose before you can even get to the final fight. I haven't played Pandemic enough times to get to that point, but I can see how it could drain some players. Although, if you consistently beat the game, then that can also be discouraging. You have to make the game tougher then (not sure if Pandemic's expansion is a good buy or not; never played it).

With Power Grid, your failure is usually based on someone else's good strategy (and maybe some power plant randomness). At least you can improve your game by watching the others. It seems to me that PG has longer games, so I don't view it as having a high replayabilty factor in the same night. Lifetime replayability? Sure. I guess I should have specified that I was focusing on replaying in the same game session. And even then, while Pandemic qualifies for that due to time, it depends on how masochistic you are after you get your butt kicked. I guess I'm a sucker. I'm the type of player who gets trashed in Galaxy Trucker and then says, "Again, again!"

I haven't played Agricola yet, but I've played Le Havre, which I understand is similar. If Le Havre is any indication, Agricola is a longer game than Power Grid. Although, like Le Havre, you can choose to play a shorter game of Power Grid. I personally am not a fan of cutting the game short like that, but the option is there. A shortened game of Power Grid probably runs shorter than a Pandemic game, I would estimate.

Something else that contributes to Power Grid's replayability is buying extra boards. I only have the base game, but my friend has several different boards. It's not just the placement either. The resources differ. I don't remember the specifics, but I recall that playing in China was quite a bit different from the base game.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 01:48:57 pm by Kuildeous »
Logged
A man has no signature

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9392
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #89 on: May 10, 2012, 12:42:21 pm »
0

I highly recommend Pandemic, because of its length (~40 min) as Kuildeous suggests.  Power Grid is ~90 minutes and doesn't play well with fewer than 4 players.

As far as "Will we get too good at Pandemic?" the answer is:  when you do, an another Epidemic card.  And when you get good enough at playing with 5, try adding 6. In addition, the expansion gives Pandemic a much larger replay value.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1342
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #90 on: May 10, 2012, 03:07:45 pm »
0

Pandemic gets noticeably harder as you go up in number of players. My girlfriend and I have a pretty high win rate with 6 epidemics in 2-player, probably something like 70%, but in 4 player even 5 epidemics is really tough.

Expansion is worth it once you get acclimated to the base game and like it, IMO. All the added roles and the Mutant strain add a lot of variety, and the virulent strain and the extra epidemic card can up the challenge level a lot.
Logged

questioneer

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
  • Respect: +12
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2012, 12:28:22 pm »
0

If anyone is interested in buying a mint, brand new 10th Anniversary Puerto Rico ($70) or a mint, brand new Risk Legacy ($50) PM me.  Thanks

Logged

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1918
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2317
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2012, 03:22:17 pm »
+6

Quote from: f.DS
questioneer
Swindler
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2850
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2012, 08:26:21 pm »
0

Are cooperative games good?  I saw one at the store and was curious.  Cooperating in video games is really fun, I don't know about how a board game would be.

Only co-op game I remember being mentioned in this thread was on a timer and I don't think that's for me, I'm a sit down and drink coffee kinda player.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1342
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2012, 08:46:47 pm »
0

Pandemic is cooperative, it's been discussed a little earlier in this thread. It's pretty fun.
Logged

O

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 836
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2012, 08:48:00 pm »
+1

Are cooperative games good?  I saw one at the store and was curious.  Cooperating in video games is really fun, I don't know about how a board game would be.

Only co-op game I remember being mentioned in this thread was on a timer and I don't think that's for me, I'm a sit down and drink coffee kinda player.

It really depends on what type of player you are. I can't stand Pandemic, others love it.
Logged

Young Nick

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 561
  • Respect: +273
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2012, 09:00:05 pm »
0

I am not a huge fan of cooperative games. I've played a bit of Forbidden Island and Pandemic (aka Pandemic Jr. and Pandemic). I do not enjoy the game mainly because I like playing AGAINST my friends as opponents. Also, though, I feel that the game ends up devolving into one person (usually the most experienced or assertive player) controlling the rest, and thus you don't make as many decisions on your own. I know that there are special rules that prevent this from happening, but still, it can be frustrating.

The timer that you mentioned was probably a house rule/variant to make the game more challenging for players. I know for either Pandemic and Forbidden Island, no timer is necessary.
Logged

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1342
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2012, 09:03:16 pm »
0

It is likely that he was referring to Space Alert, which is a cooperative game that runs on a timer and was also mentioned earlier in this thread.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 09:09:37 pm by ftl »
Logged

jsh357

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2577
  • Shuffle iT Username: jsh357
  • Respect: +4338
    • View Profile
    • JSH Gaming: Original games
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2012, 12:19:43 am »
0

Can't Stop


... Is he joking??
Logged
Join the Dominion community Discord channel! Chat in text and voice; enter dumb tournaments; spy on top players!

https://discord.gg/2rDpJ4N

Kuildeous

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3834
  • Respect: +2202
    • View Profile
Re: What other games are as good as Dominion?
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2012, 11:18:04 am »
0

Are cooperative games good?  I saw one at the store and was curious.  Cooperating in video games is really fun, I don't know about how a board game would be.

Cooperative games can be very fun, but it depends on your play style and the group. A bad group can make a cooperative game very unpleasant. As one person mentioned, there's the tendency for one person to see the big picture and dictate what other players should do on their turns. I'm guilty of that, but I work really hard to back off and let players make their own mistakes (which sometimes aren't the mistakes I thought they would be). Basically, such a player should consider playing the game solo for the same effect.

There's also the problem with a player making a bad mistake. Then everyone has to contend with that. That player might feel bad about screwing over the rest of the team. Or he might not. I think that would be worse.

Then there's luck. In the all-against-the-board format, the board needs to be set up so that it can fight back. I'm sure this can be done with luckless elements, but that basically turns it into a puzzle. And sometimes you have bad luck. Maybe in Shadows over Camelot, you lose Excalibur before anyone has a chance to react; maybe in Red November, the Kraken shows up when only one person has a chance of getting out there to defeat it; and maybe in Ghost Stories, all of the powerful ghosts are clumped together so they hit you all at once instead of being spread out. Bad luck can make a game feel so depressing. I think Lord of the Rings might minimize luck the most since you can usually see what you are stepping into, but most of the hazards are offset by the cards in your hand, which are of course governed by luck.

In general, cooperative games are exclusively players versus the board, but there are some games where you can have player vs. player. In Shadows over Camelot, you can introduce the traitor. One player is actually working against you, but that player needs to play his cards carefully. If he tips everyone off, then he can be accused. He's not out of the game if he's revealed, but he can't screw over the players as much if that happens. In Red November, it's possible for one of the players to jump ship in the last 10 minutes. If the submarine is destroyed, then he wins. If it survives, then he's tried and executed for cowardice (well, I assume that's what happens). I've never played Battlestar Galactica, but I understand there's a traitor element in there too.

If you have questions about one, see if someone in your gaming group has a copy. Give it a try. If not, well, you'll have to bite the bullet. People have varying opinions about which game is best. For example, I love Red November far more than the BGG ratings would indicate. By contrast, I enjoy Shadows over Camelot, but I don't really jump for joy when it's pulled out. I do agree that Ghost Stories is a great game.

I suppose that you could start off with one of the simpler games and see how that goes. No sense frustrating your group if they're too busy grokking the rules. In that case, I would suggest Pandemic, I think. Red November is also simple, but the rulebook is pretty horrid to read (in the earlier printing; not sure about the big box). I'd save Ghost Stories and Lord of the Rings for a much later time.
Logged
A man has no signature
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 10  All
 

Page created in 0.09 seconds with 22 queries.