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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 442940 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6950 on: September 01, 2020, 02:46:32 pm »
0

The curse does not enter your deck, only the copper does. If you want to model it as -1 card, you also have to model it as +1 coin since copper gives you +1 coin. With borrow, you get it once and next turn. With h/c, you get it many times, but much later since it doesn't affect you until you draw the copper the next time. Short term, h/c is much stronger than borrow, so the question is how heavily you want to discount.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the Curse would enter your deck. But a Copper entering your deck is still junk. True that it hurts a little less to draw Copper than it does to draw Curse/Estate; but junk is still junk; if you have trashing available you're going to trash your Coppers. And true that taking your -1 card token hurts more than adding Junk to your deck for the very next turn... but for the rest of the game after that it's the other way around. Just imagining this much stronger version:

Event - $0
Once per turn:
+1 buy
Gain a Copper, putting it in your hand

I think this would get almost never bought; and it doesn't give you - or make you wait a turn to have the extra to spend.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6951 on: September 01, 2020, 02:48:36 pm »
+1

You would not want 1 extra Copper in your deck and -1 VP in exchange for opening 3/5 rather than 3/4?

The person who doesn't open this gets to open 3/4/5 instead of 3/5, because compared to the person who bought this, they gained an extra Lab on top of their 3/4.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6952 on: September 01, 2020, 02:51:35 pm »
+1

Event - $0
Once per turn:
+1 buy
Gain a Copper, putting it in your hand

I think this would get almost never bought; and it doesn't give you - or make you wait a turn to have the extra to spend.

Well, that card would never get bought because it doesn't do anything -- you can't play the copper after you've bought something.

But if it was the intended effect, i.e. "+1$, gain a copper" or something, I think you would buy it all the time. (Though, note that part of the intention with h/c is that you don't have to play the copper. You can use it to Discard to cellar and such. That's why it goes into your hand rather than being played.)

You would not want 1 extra Copper in your deck and -1 VP in exchange for opening 3/5 rather than 3/4?

The person who doesn't open this gets to open 3/4/5 instead of 3/5, because compared to the person who bought this, they gained an extra Lab on top of their 3/4.

I mean, we don't need to discuss this; we know that getting a junk card to gain a 5$ over a 3/4$ is correct quite often becaue Desperation does it and it's often correct to buy Desperation. And the junk is significantly worse. Unless you're trying to say that you never use Desperation to buy 5$'s in the opening?
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6953 on: September 01, 2020, 03:01:16 pm »
+1

The curse does not enter your deck, only the copper does. If you want to model it as -1 card, you also have to model it as +1 coin since copper gives you +1 coin. With borrow, you get it once and next turn. With h/c, you get it many times, but much later since it doesn't affect you until you draw the copper the next time. Short term, h/c is much stronger than borrow, so the question is how heavily you want to discount.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the Curse would enter your deck. But a Copper entering your deck is still junk. True that it hurts a little less to draw Copper than it does to draw Curse/Estate; but junk is still junk; if you have trashing available you're going to trash your Coppers. And true that taking your -1 card token hurts more than adding Junk to your deck for the very next turn... but for the rest of the game after that it's the other way around. Just imagining this much stronger version:

Event - $0
Once per turn:
+1 buy
Gain a Copper, putting it in your hand

I think this would get almost never bought; and it doesn't give you - or make you wait a turn to have the extra to spend.
I guess you mean something like play a Copper from the Supply.
I dont see how this is automatically better or worse than Borrow. Depends on the sifting/trashing power of the Kingdom. The notion that it will never be bought is definitely wrong.
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6954 on: September 01, 2020, 06:08:09 pm »
+1

The curse does not enter your deck, only the copper does. If you want to model it as -1 card, you also have to model it as +1 coin since copper gives you +1 coin. With borrow, you get it once and next turn. With h/c, you get it many times, but much later since it doesn't affect you until you draw the copper the next time. Short term, h/c is much stronger than borrow, so the question is how heavily you want to discount.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought the Curse would enter your deck. But a Copper entering your deck is still junk. True that it hurts a little less to draw Copper than it does to draw Curse/Estate; but junk is still junk; if you have trashing available you're going to trash your Coppers. And true that taking your -1 card token hurts more than adding Junk to your deck for the very next turn... but for the rest of the game after that it's the other way around. Just imagining this much stronger version:

Event - $0
Once per turn:
+1 buy
Gain a Copper, putting it in your hand

I think this would get almost never bought; and it doesn't give you - or make you wait a turn to have the extra to spend.
I guess you mean something like play a Copper from the Supply.
I dont see how this is automatically better or worse than Borrow. Depends on the sifting/trashing power of the Kingdom. The notion that it will never be bought is definitely wrong.

I feel like this is way better than Borrow early game. Borrow makes you draw less which is awful when you don't have lots of draw in your deck already. This has no immediate penalty and may even be a bonus going into turns 3 and 4 because the average value of each of your cards is so low.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6955 on: September 01, 2020, 06:58:19 pm »
+5

Navy
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $3
While this is in play, each other player draws only 4 cards during their cleanup phase (instead of 5) for their next hand. At the start of your next turn: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1
When you gain this, you may play it.
How does this interact with Outpost?  The "while this is in play" wording is awkward in its position, and I think prevents it from being an Attack for timing issues maybe.  This should probably just use the -1 Card token and be an Attack.
As a technicality, the card should be set aside and then played to avoid tracking issues with top-decking effects like Watchtower and Tracker (per Innovation).

Fish
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$1, +2 Cards.
When you gain this, put it onto your deck.
If you have no Actions in your deck, this is Laboratory+Peddler in one card which will turn some heads at its printed cost of $2.

Distribute
Types: Event
Cost: <4>
Gain a card costing up to $4. Set it aside. If you did, put it in your hand at the start of your next turn. Each other player gains a copy of that card.
Pile sizes are a big problem in multiplayer games.  An important part of Messenger's on-gain ability is that to use it you have to gain Messenger, which is actually a pretty garbage card so you don't usually want to buy lots of them.  I'm not sure if delaying the effect by one turn really fixes how fast 4-player games can be 3-piled.

Mausoleum
Types: Victory
Cost: $3+
Worth 3VP if you have at least ten Action cards.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. Gain a Spirit costing less than the amount you overpaid, onto your deck.
Your expectation here is
  • $3 + $0 = $3 => Mausoleum (can't overpay by $0)
  • $3 + $1 = $4 => Mausoleum + Will-o'-Wisp
  • $3 + $3 = $6 => Mausoleum + Imp
  • $3 + $5 = $8 => Mausoleum + Ghost
Yes?  I think $2+ might be a better cost for Mausoleum to allow Will-o'-Wisp to draw it, and it brings Ghost down to a more reasonable $7-cost price point.  I concur with Gubump that its VP condition is trivial for a huge number of points.  The condition should probably be harder or else you may as well write the number it is worth on it.  I'd consider making the condition "3 differently named Spirits."

Lease
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Set aside an Action card from the supply and take <debt> equal to half its cost (rounded up). At the start of your next turn, play the set-aside action. When it leaves play, return it to the supply.
This is cute, but I think it will have boring play patterns where it's most commonly used on a fast trasher or strong curser and almost never otherwise.

Haunted Cruise
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Once per turn: +1 Buy, and Exile and Curse and a Copper from the supply. At the start of your next turn, put a card you have in Exile into your hand.
Think of how often you buy beggar just for the +3$ even though the junking effect is three times as strong and you have to invest in a card to do it.
I virtually never buy Beggar outside of its most explicit combos.  You should really be comparing Haunted Cruise to Banquet (which is also bad).  If it is so good to use Haunted Cruise to get a $3/$5 opening, what about the ~42% of games were you're stuck with a $4/$3 opening?  Is it okay to be hosed that regularly?
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6956 on: September 01, 2020, 07:12:43 pm »
+1



Quote
Boarding House - $2
Action - Looter
+1 Action
+$1
You may play an Action card from your hand.
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

Not sure about the wording or the power level for this. The on-gain effect is only really good early game to help get a $5, but the Ruins don't make it a guarantee and delays your first shuffle. I am thinking of making it shuffle all treasure in play into the deck.

Why "you may play an Action card from your hand" instead of just +2 Actions at the top?

Yeah, I guess that would be simpler. I think that is a hold over from an earlier version of this card when you could trash the action you play off it.



Quote
Boarding House - $2
Action - Looter
+2 Actions
+$1
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

So this would make it a bad Fishing Village. Hmm, not sure if I am happy with it. I may try and make the "play an action from your hand" work so if you play a Ruins you are rewarded or change it back so you can trash the action.
This is strictly weaker than Squire (Vineyard is the only edge case that comes to mind). Why would you want a non-drawing splitter that comes with junk and makes the next turns worse via shuffling Coppers back in?
Anything that makes you want extra gains for some reason makes this not strictly weaker. There are probably situations where you want this in Forager or Priest games just for food, although they are rare. I suppose the copper shuffling could also be nice for an overpay Doctor?

I do agree that "worse Squire with a usually bad on-gain" could use strengthening, though.

All valid and welcome criticism. Comparing it to Squire really nailed it. I fiddled around with the design a bit more, and I know the copper shuffle really makes it unappealing, so I went a slightly different direction.



Quote
Boarding House - $3
Action - Looter
+1 Buy
+$2
You may play an Action card from your hand. If you do, trash it and get +1 Card, +1 Action.
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

So now it is a Woodcutter+. The on-buy penalty is still present and is mainly there to discourage buying a bunch of them early on. If you play and trash an action it is a pseudo Grand Market, but it will be hungry for new action cards if you want to keep using it as a Grand Market. Not sure if this is too strong. I could probably reduce the money gain on play to $1 and it would be ok. Please let me know what you all think.

Also, I am not too happy with the name. I may change that in the final version, but am lacking inspiration. Recommendations would be welcome.
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6957 on: September 01, 2020, 07:14:21 pm »
+1



Thanks for the feedback on Navy, y'all. Fragasnap, I think this wording should clarify the interaction with outpost. You "would draw" three from Outpost, and since that is less than the minimum of 4 from Navy, you get to draw all 3.

I don't want to just use the -1 Card token because I want it to specifically affect your next hand, not draw on this turn. It's basically a "topdeck a random card from your hand" attack.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6958 on: September 01, 2020, 09:59:53 pm »
+1

Fish
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$1, +2 Cards.
When you gain this, put it onto your deck.
If you have no Actions in your deck, this is Laboratory+Peddler in one card which will turn some heads at its printed cost of $2.
Is it a problem with the cost or the card itself? Also, thanks for all the feedback you provide.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6959 on: September 01, 2020, 11:24:39 pm »
0

Fish
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$1, +2 Cards.
When you gain this, put it onto your deck.
If you have no Actions in your deck, this is Laboratory+Peddler in one card which will turn some heads at its printed cost of $2.
Is it a problem with the cost or the card itself? Also, thanks for all the feedback you provide.
Mainly the cost. I had a card* similar to this one (but very slightly stronger) that cost $5 (or $4 under certain conditions). The other thing is that it sucks to draw Action cards in your buy phase when you can't play them (usually), so my card also had something like "Put up to 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck."**

*"Figurine" from an earlier weekly contest. I would link you to it, but it's so hard to find anything specific in this huge thread so I can't find it now. 
**And no, I don't mind at all if you want to steal my idea and add this on your card. Then again, it's always nicer for you if the card is all your idea.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 11:30:54 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6960 on: September 01, 2020, 11:59:28 pm »
+3


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)
Edit: updated
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 05:03:14 pm by pubby »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6961 on: September 02, 2020, 12:42:08 am »
+2


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)
So with phoenix you can make a Poor House cost P$2? Maybe specify a 4$-5$ cost card? And why is it a fate card, when it doesn't give boons?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 12:44:58 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6962 on: September 02, 2020, 01:05:04 am »
+1



Quote
Boarding House - $2
Action - Looter
+1 Action
+$1
You may play an Action card from your hand.
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

Not sure about the wording or the power level for this. The on-gain effect is only really good early game to help get a $5, but the Ruins don't make it a guarantee and delays your first shuffle. I am thinking of making it shuffle all treasure in play into the deck.

Why "you may play an Action card from your hand" instead of just +2 Actions at the top?

Yeah, I guess that would be simpler. I think that is a hold over from an earlier version of this card when you could trash the action you play off it.



Quote
Boarding House - $2
Action - Looter
+2 Actions
+$1
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

So this would make it a bad Fishing Village. Hmm, not sure if I am happy with it. I may try and make the "play an action from your hand" work so if you play a Ruins you are rewarded or change it back so you can trash the action.
This is strictly weaker than Squire (Vineyard is the only edge case that comes to mind). Why would you want a non-drawing splitter that comes with junk and makes the next turns worse via shuffling Coppers back in?
Anything that makes you want extra gains for some reason makes this not strictly weaker. There are probably situations where you want this in Forager or Priest games just for food, although they are rare. I suppose the copper shuffling could also be nice for an overpay Doctor?

I do agree that "worse Squire with a usually bad on-gain" could use strengthening, though.

All valid and welcome criticism. Comparing it to Squire really nailed it. I fiddled around with the design a bit more, and I know the copper shuffle really makes it unappealing, so I went a slightly different direction.



Quote
Boarding House - $3
Action - Looter
+1 Buy
+$2
You may play an Action card from your hand. If you do, trash it and get +1 Card, +1 Action.
-
When you gain this, gain a Ruins and shuffle it as well as all Copper you have in play into your deck.

So now it is a Woodcutter+. The on-buy penalty is still present and is mainly there to discourage buying a bunch of them early on. If you play and trash an action it is a pseudo Grand Market, but it will be hungry for new action cards if you want to keep using it as a Grand Market. Not sure if this is too strong. I could probably reduce the money gain on play to $1 and it would be ok. Please let me know what you all think.

Also, I am not too happy with the name. I may change that in the final version, but am lacking inspiration. Recommendations would be welcome.
Id price it at $4, like all Woodcutter+.
The trash for village thingy is nice and will be used in most games at least during your (anticipated) last turn.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 01:52:07 pm by segura »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6963 on: September 02, 2020, 01:41:39 am »
0

<Gunpower & Phoenix>
So with phoenix you can make a Poor House cost P$2? Maybe specify a 4$-5$ cost card? And why is it a fate card, when it doesn't give boons?
Really Pubby?

For those who don't know, this is a reference to the forum's most infamous fan expansion: Gunpowder.
EDIT for further explanation: Infamous both because it was mostly terrible and because its designer didn't take feedback very well...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 01:47:44 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6964 on: September 02, 2020, 01:41:55 am »
0


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)
So with phoenix you can make a Poor House cost P$2? Maybe specify a 4$-5$ cost card? And why is it a fate card, when it doesn't give boons?

In general I like the cost change of an additional Kingdom card, but it should be in a more narrowed range.

I think the top corners of Gunpowder should have a "?" symbol instead of $1P.

Thematically (flavor wise), the two cards don't fit very well, or do I miss something? It looks a bit like you have combined two largely unrelated cards to fit for this contest.

I am not sure how often I would buy Gunpowder. It doesn't seem to accelerate buying Potion cost cards, if that was the intention.
The Phoenix recovery seems to be too trivial, especially in the opening, i.e. trash it - gain it.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6965 on: September 02, 2020, 04:06:41 am »
+2

I virtually never buy Beggar outside of its most explicit combos.  You should really be comparing Haunted Cruise to Banquet (which is also bad).

Oh yeah, Banquet is a great point. I hadn't thought about it.

So there you go. It's like a Banquet early, but with a significantly smaller penalty, and it doesn't get you from 3$ to 5$. And it doesn't have the property of Banquet that, if Coppers are good, you can just mass it. The Curses will start to hurt.

And later, it can do all sorts of things Banquet can't do.

If it is so good to use Haunted Cruise to get a $3/$5 opening, what about the ~42% of games were you're stuck with a $4/$3 opening?  Is it okay to be hosed that regularly?

Yeah, well, I've decided to make a card that does increase opening variance for once, even though I generally don't like that much. It doesn't add a super high amount of variance,  less than Taxes probably, but some.

I feel like this is way better than Borrow early game. Borrow makes you draw less which is awful when you don't have lots of draw in your deck already. This has no immediate penalty and may even be a bonus going into turns 3 and 4 because the average value of each of your cards is so low.

I don't know about way better, but I do agree that I think it's probably stronger, not weaker, than Borrow. And much stronger later in the game.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6966 on: September 02, 2020, 11:05:01 am »
+1

Fish
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$1, +2 Cards.
When you gain this, put it onto your deck.
If you have no Actions in your deck, this is Laboratory+Peddler in one card which will turn some heads at its printed cost of $2.
Is it a problem with the cost or the card itself? Also, thanks for all the feedback you provide.
Mainly the cost. I had a card* similar to this one (but very slightly stronger) that cost $5 (or $4 under certain conditions). The other thing is that it sucks to draw Action cards in your buy phase when you can't play them (usually), so my card also had something like "Put up to 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck."**
I know it sucks to draw actions in the buy phase, that's the general idea and is why it costs $2.I think it might be too strong in BM but too weak in Engines. Is it too weak if I have it only draw the first time each turn?
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chronostrike

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6967 on: September 02, 2020, 11:53:59 am »
+1

Does Ferry count as a way to change the split since it lets you go 3/6 or 4/5 but for only a specific card?  I have a similar idea that could cause 3/5 or 2/6 splits but only for one card per kingdom.


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)
So with phoenix you can make a Poor House cost P$2? Maybe specify a 4$-5$ cost card? And why is it a fate card, when it doesn't give boons?

In general I like the cost change of an additional Kingdom card, but it should be in a more narrowed range.

I think the top corners of Gunpowder should have a "?" symbol instead of $1P.

Thematically (flavor wise), the two cards don't fit very well, or do I miss something? It looks a bit like you have combined two largely unrelated cards to fit for this contest.

I am not sure how often I would buy Gunpowder. It doesn't seem to accelerate buying Potion cost cards, if that was the intention.
The Phoenix recovery seems to be too trivial, especially in the opening, i.e. trash it - gain it.
Nobody can buy Gunpowder because it's an heirloom.

I agree that the added pile should have a lower bound just to be worth buying in more games.

Phoenix seems like a very lame chapel in games without a good TfB
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6968 on: September 02, 2020, 11:59:15 am »
0


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)

You should allow this to gain trashed Victory cards. I know that'd normally be taboo but it's a potion-cost card and they can break the rules in fun ways.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6969 on: September 02, 2020, 12:05:48 pm »
0


(You're allowed to immediately gain the phoenix back after it trashes itself)

You should allow this to gain trashed Victory cards. I know that'd normally be taboo but it's a potion-cost card and they can break the rules in fun ways.
I think its been mentioned before, but why the fate type? It doesn't give boons.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6970 on: September 02, 2020, 03:08:18 pm »
0

Nobody can buy Gunpowder because it's an heirloom.

Of course you are right. The part of my brain that wrote that sentence somehow expected the heirloom on the right side, like it would with other duos, like Hermit-Madman, Vampire-Bat etc.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6971 on: September 02, 2020, 03:38:23 pm »
+2

New Submission

Trying something entirely different.



Quote
Underling - Action - costs 3debt
+$1
-
When you gain this, gain a card costing up to $4 to the top of your deck.

You can quickly get a needed 4 cost, at the expense of cursing yourself with a terminal copper. Underling costs debt so it can't auto pile, and also so it can't be Trash For Benefitted very well. It's a bad card in your deck -- that's the penalty for the gain. It also can always be opened with. A Baron needs an underling, don't they? With 3/3 (one copper is not drawn at start of T2) you can hit $7 on turn 2. There's lots of 4-cost cards you want turn 2 bad enough to take in an underling, I assure you.

open to feedback, of course. I threw out last submission because it got no upvotes and comments, so maybe it wasn't as interesting as I thought. Let me know if this also is not interesting.

One idea I am considering: strengthening it to make it not cost debt during Action phase so that you can mid-turn gain it. For example "This costs 1$ and 3 debt during your buy phase, and $3 during your action phase." Another idea is removing debt entirely so it just costs $3 and has a clause about not self-gaining.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 03:54:23 pm by anordinaryman »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6972 on: September 02, 2020, 03:49:17 pm »
+1

I think this is interesting. I'm not a great judge of strength, but it might be too strong in a game with half decent trashing. Particularly with the top-decking.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6973 on: September 02, 2020, 03:53:54 pm »
+1

I think this is interesting. I'm not a great judge of strength, but it might be too strong in a game with half decent trashing. Particularly with the top-decking.

I'm okay with it being a little strong, since it isn't strong in the sense you buy this instead of other cards. You still get the other cards, and you have to account for trashing this. It's sort of like an Event that comes with a slightly better Confusion, that allows you to still get the event when you recover the confusion from the Trash. It changes the game, in the same way that Delve, Chapel, and Donate all change the game, though probably less than all those.

Edit: My question is, is it better or worse if I make changes to allow it to be gained mid-turn. I am unsure whether that would be more interesting for the combos, or if doing so would make it too strong in a less interesting way? Now that I think about it the solution would be "gain a card that is not an Underling costing up to 4. This costs 0 debt during your Action phrase" which would allow it to still suck for t4b and allow mid turn gains. Not sure if that stronger version is better.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 04:02:52 pm by anordinaryman »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6974 on: September 02, 2020, 04:04:15 pm »
0


Made a few changes here. Just a shot in the dark. Thoughts?
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