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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 381679 times)

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6475 on: August 01, 2020, 07:23:19 am »
0

Bandit and Leprechaun indicate that a Gold gainer is a $4. That is why I am fairly certain that the card, being better than a pure Gold gainer in two respects, is overpowered.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6476 on: August 01, 2020, 07:43:48 am »
0

I've never bought Leprechaun without intending to gain wishes, I believe.

I'm more comparing it to Marauder, which seems significantly stronger and it's one of the cards that most strongly predicts that you lose the game. (As in, across all games where only one of both players buys Marauder, that player loses significantly more than 50% of the time -- unless I'm misunderstanding what the "winner-opponent" statistic means. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mIlL9BaOczozPJISzTGIeGwsJxLJ11mL3A6x9GM9W9g/edit#gid=0)

Incidentally, Bandit is also a (somewhat weaker) predictor of you losing the game.

Certainly, either this or the previous version has to be unbalanced since the previous one was about twice as strong. I think the previous version was more balanced.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6477 on: August 01, 2020, 08:25:08 am »
0

I've never bought Leprechaun without intending to gain wishes, I believe.
Leprechaun misfires far more often than it hits and I have witnessed better players than me open with Leprechaun and win.

I totally agree that gaining any stop card should be viewed critically. But Honey is better than Gold, money decks do still exist and +1 Villager and +1 Buy is a decent secondary option.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6478 on: August 01, 2020, 10:34:25 am »
0

I've never bought Leprechaun without intending to gain wishes, I believe.
Leprechaun misfires far more often than it hits and I have witnessed better players than me open with Leprechaun and win.

Well, since buying Leprechaun is evidence for a good deck, the "only one player bought it" statistics don't work here. The statistics for people who open with it look quite bad (silver/leprechaun openings have a 47% winrate) but the sample sizes are smaller.

I don't think I've ever opened Leprechaun, though I have seen my opponents do it a bunch.
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X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6479 on: August 01, 2020, 12:08:54 pm »
+2

24 HOURS REMAINING

Sorry I did not put a judging date on my contest post, I kinda forgot. Also, contest this week is uhhh 1 week + 1 day. That's because I was really busy all week and couldn't really check the cards 'til today, so I'm giving myself a buffer day to judge everything nicely.
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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6480 on: August 01, 2020, 12:41:59 pm »
0

I've never bought Leprechaun without intending to gain wishes, I believe.
Leprechaun misfires far more often than it hits and I have witnessed better players than me open with Leprechaun and win.

I totally agree that gaining any stop card should be viewed critically. But Honey is better than Gold, money decks do still exist and +1 Villager and +1 Buy is a decent secondary option.

My thinking with Honey is that if you only gain 1 and always spend the coffer when it comes round then you’ve gained a single Gold, or if you save the Coffers for another turn you risk it being a Silver which is fine.
If you gain 2+ Honey, you’re really hoping they don’t collide and that you can spend the Coffers consistently enough. Apiary doesn’t allow them to collide directly, but the Villager it gives does encourage other draw cards to be played which increases the likelihood of drawing more Honey. Taking away the duration also stops you from gaining Honey too quickly probably makes it stronger, and also stops you gaining Villagers too quickly which affects its strength depending on the kingdom. (Ie, couldn’t quite work that one out...) If you flood your deck with Honey, you’ve mostly gained a ton of Silver.

Still, opening with Apiary the earliest you get the Honey in play is turn 5 most likely. Opening Skulk gets you a Gold turn 3 if you’re lucky.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6481 on: August 01, 2020, 01:17:35 pm »
+2

Updated Submission



Quote
Seagull - Action - $5
+3 Cards

You may discard a Seagull from your hand. If you do, choose one: +1 Action; or gain a Seagull.

Seagull is now a Smithy+. I think there's a lot of directions to go with this concept (a terminal drawer that discards nice cards to become a lab). This is where I'm going for this contest. If you make it into a lab, it's a pretty bad lab since it forces you discard your other could be labs in order to make it non-terminal. More likely, this is a smithy that when it terminal collides, you can gain another one... but wait, if your seagulls are terminally colliding... do you want to flood your deck with more Seagulls? That's your choice, of course.

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6482 on: August 01, 2020, 04:48:21 pm »
0

If you flood your deck with Honey, you’ve mostly gained a ton of Silver.
No. You have gained a bunch of ton of Gold+.

You seem to be confused about how the game works: you can spend Coffers before you buy anything, i.e. you can play a Honey and then immediately spend the Coffers independent of whether you played a Honey before or not. You can also first spend the Coffers you got in a previous turn before you play Honey.
There is no downside at all, Honey is strictly better than Gold (ignoring the aforementioned edge cases like Gamble, Venture and Black Market).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 04:52:22 pm by segura »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6483 on: August 01, 2020, 05:02:22 pm »
0

I've never bought Leprechaun without intending to gain wishes, I believe.
Leprechaun misfires far more often than it hits and I have witnessed better players than me open with Leprechaun and win.

Well, since buying Leprechaun is evidence for a good deck, the "only one player bought it" statistics don't work here. The statistics for people who open with it look quite bad (silver/leprechaun openings have a 47% winrate) but the sample sizes are smaller.

I don't think I've ever opened Leprechaun, though I have seen my opponents do it a bunch.
I don’t see the relevance of these statistics. My point is that Leprechaun is first and above all a Gold gainer. The Hex is a downside, the Wish is an upside. The latter matters more but you get the Hex more often than the Wish.

So Leprechaun basically tells us that a vanilla Gold gainer is too good for $3. Bandit says, it is too weak at $5. So we get $4 as the correct price.

The question is whether it is a weak or good $4 and how much the two extras of Apiary interact with that. I think that it the vanilla gainer would be a slightly weakish $4, but that the two extras of Apiary more than make up for that.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6484 on: August 01, 2020, 05:21:32 pm »
0

My point is that Leprechaun is first and above all a Gold gainer. The Hex is a downside, the Wish is an upside. The latter matters more but you get the Hex more often than the Wish.

So Leprechaun basically tells us that a vanilla Gold gainer is too good for $3. Bandit says, it is too weak at $5. So we get $4 as the correct price.

Well, first of all, I don't agree with the bolded part. I think if you're buying Leprechaun expecting to get hexes, you're just making a mistake almost all of the time. I'm pretty sure I get a wish more than half of the time that I play it, and I virtually always buy it with a reasonable expectation to get a wish.

There is also no such thing as "stronger than 3$ and weaker than 5$". Cards that cost 3$ aren't weaker than cards that cost 4$. Weirdly, they're probably stronger. There is a jump from 3/4 to 5$; there's no jump from 3$ to 4$.

But most importantly, just because Gold + Hex is weak at 3/4 doesn't mean just gaining gold is balanced. It could also be weak, and if so gold + hex is just super-duper weak. You also can't conclude much from Bandit because it has the attack and is also empirically overvalued.

Gaining a spoils and giving your opponent a ruins seems to me much stronger than gaining a gold, and, as I said, Marauder is  empirically an overvalued card. If the card is weaker than Marauder and Marauder is weak at 4$, it's probably also weak at 4$.

Edit: though, I admit that the coffer of Honey is really nice. If this card is playable, I suspect it'll be because Honey > gold.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 05:26:59 pm by silverspawn »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6485 on: August 01, 2020, 05:46:35 pm »
0

My point is that Leprechaun is first and above all a Gold gainer. The Hex is a downside, the Wish is an upside. The latter matters more but you get the Hex more often than the Wish.

So Leprechaun basically tells us that a vanilla Gold gainer is too good for $3. Bandit says, it is too weak at $5. So we get $4 as the correct price.
Cards that cost 3$ aren't weaker than cards that cost 4$. Weirdly, they're probably stronger.
Yeah, Village is totally stronger than Walled Village and Oasis is totally stronger than Poacher ...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 05:54:05 pm by segura »
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Xen3k

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6486 on: August 01, 2020, 09:34:10 pm »
0

Regarding Honey, a simple solution would be to just add a "If this is the first Honey you play this turn, +1 Coffers". Then you prevent is being a Gold all the time but still allows stockpiling Coffers, if you want that to be a thing.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6487 on: August 01, 2020, 11:31:22 pm »
+1

Updated submission:
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6488 on: August 02, 2020, 12:54:02 am »
+3

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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6489 on: August 02, 2020, 04:08:44 am »
+1

My point is that Leprechaun is first and above all a Gold gainer. The Hex is a downside, the Wish is an upside. The latter matters more but you get the Hex more often than the Wish.

So Leprechaun basically tells us that a vanilla Gold gainer is too good for $3. Bandit says, it is too weak at $5. So we get $4 as the correct price.
Cards that cost 3$ aren't weaker than cards that cost 4$. Weirdly, they're probably stronger.
Yeah, Village is totally stronger than Walled Village and Oasis is totally stronger than Poacher ...

You can find a card costing 4$ stronger than a card costing 3$. It's also true that you can find cards costing 4$ which are strictly stronger than cards costing 3$ and not vice-versa. But none of that tells you whether 3$s or 4$s are stronger on average.

In the 2018 list, the top five 4$ cards were [Remake, Bridge, Tournament, Wandering Minstrel, Villa], whereas the top five 3$ cards were [Ambassador, Masquerade, Steward, Cathedral, Urchin]. This is more relevant for the question, and it's certainly not obvious that the first group is stronger in absolute terms.

From a design perspective, the question of whether something costs 3$ or 4$ should be "do I want people to have the ability to open with two of those." This is unrelated to powerlevel. For example, Treasure Map would not be overpowered at 3$, but it would probably be bad if people could open with two of them. Conversely, Steward is certainly not "too weak at 4$" but we arguably want people to be able to open double Steward.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6490 on: August 02, 2020, 04:38:41 am »
+1

All that is true. But you totally ignore that we talked about Gold gainers, i.e. cards that are SIMILAR. Here the power level is always proportional to the price which is why a vanilla Gold gainer would require a price between Bandit and Leprechaun just like vanilla village needs a price between Native and Walled Village.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6491 on: August 02, 2020, 05:39:07 am »
0

Okay, but it's still the case that "it's weaker than bandit and stronger than Leprechaun" doesn't prove it's correctly priced at 4$. That requires that Leprechaun as a gold-gainer is a reasonable purchase at 3$, which I don't think is true. I'm not sure if it's a worthwhile purchase at 0$. I'm not sure a terminal that says "gain a gold and a hex" is something you want in your deck even if you got it for free.
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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6492 on: August 02, 2020, 01:34:47 pm »
+1


You seem to be confused about how the game works: you can spend Coffers before you buy anything, i.e. you can play a Honey and then immediately spend the Coffers independent of whether you played a Honey before or not. You can also first spend the Coffers you got in a previous turn before you play Honey.
There is no downside at all, Honey is strictly better than Gold (ignoring the aforementioned edge cases like Gamble, Venture and Black Market).

Good point, I tend to leave Coffers to the end because I don't think about how much money I'll have before playing all my treasures beforehand.

There's a way to get it to work well, and I like the ideas I've been given but I don't think I'll get it sorted in time for the deadline. I'll keep working on this one as I like the concept though.
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X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6493 on: August 02, 2020, 02:34:44 pm »
+6

CONTEST 82 JUDGING


As per tradition, here I am late with my judging. Woops. So the rules of this contest were a bit farfetched, I hope that did not stop some of you guys to enter something. I just wanted to try something different to see how it’d go! But still, I’m very please with what you guys entered. Like always, the creativity y’all display here is always so damn interesting. ‘Tis a shame we always have to pick only one winner, that’s the only disappointment. :D

Feel free to discuss my judging should you have any disagreement and stuff. So here we go again:


Way of the Coyote (Way)
You may discard a card for +2 Cards. You may discard a card for +2 Actions.
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +2 Actions.
Another cool Way from Grep! Basically, this transforms any Action you have into a possible stronger Hamlet. Hey I like that! With this in play, it is Way (lmao pun) easier to build up your Engine. Terminal collision of 2 draw cards? No problem my dude, just Way of the Coyote one of them into a +2 Action. Too many Action but juuuuust not enough draw that turn? Way of the Coyote one of your extra +2 Actions card into a +2 Cards. I like that flexibility. Although maybe this makes things a little too easy for you? Even then, I can’t say I dislike it. It’s still very fun indeed!

Ring (Treasure – Victory)

+1 Villager
-----
Worth 2 if you have 4 or more Villagers.
The two Vanilla effects are: and +1 Villager.
Back when this didn’t have a cost, I theorized that this was worth . I dunno, I thought it compared favourably to Harem. And the non-terminal way of acquiring Villagers is pretty strong. Note that I’m cool with this being worth ; I just think this seems like a pretty powerful card! This card would love to be Crown’d, that’s for sure.
I like the design here, it seems pretty sound. I feel like the clause is a little hard to get to. Perhaps it’s not even worth getting there, since I believe one will get more value in using their Villagers rather than pilling them up. Recruiter could invalidate that statement by trashing a Ring, but you know what I mean, hahaha!

Oubliette (Action)
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. Discard the duplicates.
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +1 Action.
A Laboratory that rewards deck variety. Cornucopia says hello! This doesn’t work too well when you need multiple copies of a card in your deck. In fact, you might even reduce your hand size playing an Oubliette if you’re careless enough! But it does get its usefulness in certain type of decks, especially because of how cheap it is to acquire one of these. This seems to be a little outclassed by Menagerie, but maybe I’m seeing the whole thing wrong here.

Dragon (Action)
+3 Cards
You may trash a card you have in play other than a Dragon. If you do, +1 Action.
The two Vanilla effects are: +3 Cards and +1 Action.
Moving stuff in play during the middle of a turn is always risky since the never-sleeping community here will find a way to create infinite loops with that kind of power. Luckily, I’m not that far into the rabbit’s hole and I won’t try to come up with crazy scenarios where this is possible. :D
The trashing clause here implies that you’ve been able to play at least 1 other card before Dragon which gave way for more Actions. Like a crusty ol’ Pearl Diver or what have you. Dragon really benefit from eating those lil’ inexpensive cantrip fellows.
I can see Dragon really benefiting from those “return to your Action phase” cards. Like, Dragon and Villa is a no brainer and looks like a very good combo. Likewise, Dragon + Black Market; or Dragon + Storyteller can be pretty badass if played right. The fact that I’m already thinking about stuff like that means I do like the card, so yay! :D

Sophia (Action)
+1 Action
Choose one: +; or +1.
-----
Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing at least to the Supply.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Action and +.
Interesting. But I dunno, I feel like I wouldn’t spend my hard earned on this. There’s tough competition at that price. I’d even consider other disappearing money more, like Festival. Potion stuff is always a little weird. This also screws up a little bit with Alchemist and Apothecary. Especially if they are the “extra Kingdom” out and the only P costing Supply pile. But I can see this being cool with stuff like Scrying Pool.

Figurine (Treasure)
+1 Card
+
Put up to two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Card and +.
I’d prefer if it was just a big coin symbol on top of the +1 Card, that’d fit more with the other Treasure cards out there. :)
This self-replacing Copper is weird, maybe even a little weak. I get that you can topdeck unused (or just drawn) Action cards with this, but I dunno if I’m ready to spend for a Figurine to do so. But it is an utility card and so I’m sure some peeps out there will find a perfect spot in their deck for a Figurine.

Yield (Treasure)
+1 Buy
Reveal your hand. + per different card type you reveal.
-----
During your turns, this costs more per different card type you have in play.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Buy and +.
I think it’d be a little (and emphasis on the word “little”, for I do not think the problem is a major one at all) hard to remember how much each Yield can be, since with each play of them, you must reveal your hand. And that value can fluctuate. Like if you play a Yield, revealing another Yield, playing that other Yield and then revealing a Treasure-less hand (two different values for two different Yields). Bank’s like that too, but at least the cards are in play and so it’s easier to see how much each Bank gives.
But like I said, that’s only a teeny-tiny minor complain, so let’s disregard that for a moment. I like the idea of Yield. Deck variety is always a fun thing to toy around with and Cornucopia proved that. The +1 Buy on Yield is appreciated and should help you enable that card more. In fact, any Treasure card with a +1 Buy (ore more, perhaps, if we’re being crazy) is very nice in my book. Overall, cool design!

Ikon (Treasure)
If you have an odd number of Ikons in play, +2 Cards. Otherwise, +. You may discard an Action card to gain an Ikon.
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +.
Weew, lots of Treasures this time around! Ikon’s nice, let’s not lie to ourselves here. Ikon could justify being in an Action heavy deck more than your average Treasure card and that is nice. This flexibility makes for interesting strategies. I could see someone opening Ikon/Chapel, trashing stuff with the good ol’ Chap at first and discarding it later for more Ikons and more sweet cash. Overall, a nice and sound design.

Mad Scientist (Action)
+
Trash 2 cards from your hand. If at least one costs or more, gain a North Magnet and a South Magnet, both onto your deck.
North Magnet (Action)
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal and play a South Magnet from your hand or discard pile.
(This is not in the Supply.)
South Magnet (Action)
+1 Action
+
Look through your discard pile. You may reveal and play a North Magnet from your hand or discard pile.
(This is not in the Supply.)
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +1 Buy AND +1 Action and +.
Nice! I like how the 2 cards to be gained both qualify for this “2 vanilla effects” contest. The flavour’s pretty neat! Mad Scientist is a nice trasher (albeilt a little late to get one, since, you know for a Mad Scientist isn’t much early game anyway; although I’d consider it more for that propriety if it’s the only trasher in the Kingdom or with a 5/2 split). I like that the Scientist can trash one of his Magnets to get… more Magnets! And the Magnets themselves are pretty swell. When you gain ‘em, you’ll pretty much be able to play both of them together since they come together, which makes you look forward for your next turn. Together, these are pretty much a Grand Market (+2 Cards instead of +1 Card, but it takes you 2 cards to get there, so it cancels out). Anyway, I like it. And I feel like the trash condition to obtain the Magnets isn’t too punishing either, so it’s definitely worth considering.

Fairy Godmother (Action – Reaction – Fate)
+1 Buy
+
Receive a Boon.
-----
When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal and discard this from your hand, to be unaffected by it. If you do, take a Boon. Receive it at the start of your next turn.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Buy and +.
There is, I think, a little too much text for my taste on this card. Donald said that Secret Chamber’s reaction was a little too confusing, now imagine his reaction (I hate myself for that pun) to Fairy Godmother. I believe that you can simply say “You may first discard this from your hand” instead of shoehorning a “reveal” in there.
Still, despite all this, I like the Boon receiving reaction. It’s pretty unique and makes for a cool effect!

Dark Path (Action – Curse – Traveler)
+1 Action
-----
-2
------
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Jungle.
Jungle (Treasure – Traveler)

-----
-2
------
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Crossroad.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Crossroad (Treasure – Traveler)

+1 Buy
-----
-3
------
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Loophole.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Loophole (Treasure – Traveler)

-----
-4
------
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Atman.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Atman (Treasure – Victory)

Trash this.
-----
2
------
(This is not in the Supply.)
The two Vanilla effects are: and +1 Buy.
Well this is pretty exotic. I mean, I know what you’re doing here, but this is very hard to play it in my head. It messes a lot with the Curse givers like Witch since you can now choose to take a Dark Path instead. It’s not too hard to exchange these since they are all non-Terminal… Still I’ll just say that I’m not too big of a fan of the last guy in this Traveler line, Atman, which might as well not have the 2 printed on it. This is the Dame Josephine syndrome all over again.
Also, it is weird that Crossroad has a +1 Buy slapped on it as opposed to the rest of this line. Like, why that one in particular? I mean, at least this is that one effect that makes this set of cards eligible for this week’s contest.
I wonder why Jungle, Crossroad and Loophole don’t have a Curse label on the bottom. I mean, they’re out-of-Supply cards anyway, not like you can gain them when being attacked by a Witch anyway.
Lastly, I’ll just say I’m not the biggest fan of cards with 2 dividing lines. A card with 2 dividing lines is a good indicator to see if your design is stepping too far into card weirdness; I feel like it screams to be streamlined at this point.
But yeah, this is too different from anything I’ve seen in Dominion for me to truly comprehend what’s going on there (non-terminal Curse Traveler line which ends on a self-trash instead of an overpowered card).

Gondolier (Night – Reserve)
For each card you’ve bought this turn, +1 Coffers. Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this for +1 Buy.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Coffers and +1 Buy.
I think you have priced this correctly. Yes, non-terminal +Coffers can be quite scary design wise. I think, however, that this is done well here. The Coffers cannot be immediately spent when you’re player Gondoliers. Gondoliers also go directly on your Tavern mat, meaning that their Coffers gaining ability get disabled every other turn. So yeah, play 3 Gondoliers on a turn where you’ve bought 2 cards for 6 Coffers. I think this is fair. But you know what, I’m a little narrow minded too and I might not be seeing the bigger, game breaking combo here if it exists.

Carpenter (Action – Duration)
Either now or at the start of your next turn, +2 Cards.
-----
While this is in play, the first time you gain a Treasure card each turn, +1 Buy.
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +1 Buy.
Heh that’s funny. Back in the days, I made a (crappy) set of card with my bro for Dominion and he made a card called Carpenter with that exact same picture as well. Ahhh good memories. :D
So yeah. At first, I was a little confused by the wording of “each turn”. I dunno what that meant. Then I understood that this mean both turns the Duration is in play. I feel like there could be a less awkward way of wording that, but heck if I know. The card itself is pretty swell. Big fan of the new “either now or at the start of your next turn” introduced in Menagerie, like with Barge. A good and sometimes tough choice to make. Especially with the bottom clause of this here Carpenter. Do you need more cards now to fire off the +Buy? Or are you okay now and so you can save those 2 extra cards in anticipation for your next turn? I like it!

Jhum (Action)
Reveal your hand. Trash 3 cards from your hand costing or more. If you did, then +2 Buys and +.
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Buys and +.
Ouch, this seems rather harsh for whoever plays this. Trashing cards costing or more? These are starting to be pretty valuable cards. And 3 of them? In your hand at once? Even if you weren’t punishing yourself so hard with Jhum, gathering the ingredients for the benefit to be fired is not the easiest task. And the reward is pretty underwhelming honestly. I’ll just buy a Capital instead, which also gives me and a Buy at the cost of no Action and I’ll be punished less harshly for doing so.

Apiary (Action)
Choose 1: +1 Villager and +1 Buy; or gain a Honey.
Honey (Treasure)

If you have no Coffers, +1 Coffers.
(This is not in the Supply.)
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Villager and +1 Buy AND and +1 Coffers.
Nice little duo of cards both falling in line within the rules of this week’s contest :) . I appreciate the effort you took to ensure that this came to be even if only one card was required to have 2 vanilla effects. That’s very thematic!
Apiary has trouble being paired with the Honeys it dispatches since you probably want a draw card in your deck to have a bunch of Honeys at once. The +1 Villager and +1 Buy choice is a little disappointing, since you’ll eat through that Villager to play more Actions. So it’s one less card in your hand for an extra Buy. No truly, I think the “gain a Honey” clause is where it’s at. ‘Cuz Honey seems pretty swell to me. Play one Honey, spend the Coffers immediately, play another Honey, spend that other Coffers immediately, rinse and repeat.

Seagull (Action)
+3 Cards
You may discard a Seagull from your hand. If you do, choose one: +1 Action; or gain a Seagull.
The two Vanilla effects are: +3 Cards and +1 Action.
A Smithy plus like you said. Or like a Forum, really, where you discard one less card, but a more valuable one. Difference between this and Forum is that this can gain another Seagull at the cost of your Action, whereas Forum gives a +Buy on gain. 2 niche effects, but that have a reason to exist. I like Seagull, it seems sound to me. The choice on a “if you do” thingy is a little funky, but the card itself is pretty simple anyway, so it’s fine.

Extort (Action – Duration – Attack)
Until the start of your next turn, when a player ends their Buy phase with less than , +1 Card and they draw one less card for their next hand. At the start of your next turn, +2 Coffers.
The two Vanilla effects are: +1 Card and +2 Coffers.
First, I’ll say that I’m glad you gave this a name :) . I know this sounds silly, but I feel like the name plays a part of the whole card creation process, just like the price of the card does, just like the effects of the card does, etc.
Anyway, for the card itself: On a lil’ technical note, I think it’d be better to say “ unspent” (see Wine Merchant) for more clarity.
Okay, so I realize that this is unlikely, but what if you have a couple of err… Extorts out? At 3 Extorts in play, a careless opponent might end up with a starting hand of 2 cards for their next turn. Likewise, you could simply King’s court an Extort to get that effect. In fact, I’m pretty sure you can pin your opponent with this. King’s Court > King’s Court > Extort > Extort is sufficient to lock an opponent who has less than in unspent . Because they’d then start their next turn with 0 cards, which means they’d have less than in unspent once more. So you can lock their turns.

Crumbling City (Action)
+2 Cards
+2 Actions
-----
When you discard this from play, set it aside and put it into your discard pile at the end of the turn (after drawing).
The two Vanilla effects are: +2 Cards and +2 Actions.
A pretty sexy card. I kinda like the consequence of this Lost City variant, with its weird Faithful Hound mechanic of doing something directly after you draw your next hand. In fact, it’d be cool if more cards in Dominion did stuff like that, affecting your discard pile for your next turn and preventing these cards-into-discard-pile to be drawn in your next hand no matter what. I tried to do something like this in the Variant subcategory of the Dominion Discord server (you may remember what it was), but it was pretty eeeeeeh. Here, the idea is exploited way better. I like Crumbling City. And I feel like asking for that card is correct.



Semifinalists: Gondolier; Ring; Mad Scientist; Seagull; Dragon

Finalist: Way of the Coyote; Ikon

Winner: Crumbling City


A late addition to this contest by Something_Smart, and yet a very interesting one, Crumbling City swoops in and snatch the Victory for this week. :D

Placing those finalists/semifinalists was torture. I kept changing them around. Dragon and Seagull were both finalists at first, but then I kept switching stuff around. In the end, I settled with this placement for the cards. This is cruel at best, hahaha!

Anyway, thank you everyone for your patience. Now the ball is in Something_Smart’s camp!
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herw

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6494 on: August 03, 2020, 01:43:01 am »
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congrats to Something_Smart with Crumbling city :)

As X-tra's comments on Dark Path are very long I have the wish to add the idea although I thought that it is clear.

[...]
Dark Path (Traveller)


The two Vanilla effects are: and +1 Buy.
Well this is pretty exotic. I mean, I know what you’re doing here, but this is very hard to play it in my head. It messes a lot with the Curse givers like Witch since you can now choose to take a Dark Path instead. It’s not too hard to exchange these since they are all non-Terminal… Still I’ll just say that I’m not too big of a fan of the last guy in this Traveler line, Atman, which might as well not have the 2 printed on it. This is the Dame Josephine syndrome all over again.
Also, it is weird that Crossroad has a +1 Buy slapped on it as opposed to the rest of this line. Like, why that one in particular? I mean, at least this is that one effect that makes this set of cards eligible for this week’s contest.
I wonder why Jungle, Crossroad and Loophole don’t have a Curse label on the bottom. I mean, they’re out-of-Supply cards anyway, not like you can gain them when being attacked by a Witch anyway.
Lastly, I’ll just say I’m not the biggest fan of cards with 2 dividing lines. A card with 2 dividing lines is a good indicator to see if your design is stepping too far into card weirdness; I feel like it screams to be streamlined at this point.
But yeah, this is too different from anything I’ve seen in Dominion for me to truly comprehend what’s going on there (non-terminal Curse Traveler line which ends on a self-trash instead of an overpowered card).
[...]
Well I think this contest is made to give new ideas a chance nevertheless conform to Donald's idea. I chose a traveller's line because I like to have decisions while playing a strategy.
Dark Path is a decision on their way. The two important cards here are in the middle Crossroad and at the end Atman.
First as you said Dark Path is a curse which is an alternative to Donald's curse. So the decision is to get it by a witch or maybe by yourself with a buy at the lowest possible costs.
Why are jungle, crossroad and loophole no curses? hm - I bet that there would have been a discussion why you cannot get them by a witch or a buy although it is clear as you mentioned: as traveller they are not in the supply. I add the colour of a curse because I want to remember that they are used at the end of the game for calling victory points. That i need to add two lines in text is Donald's decision, I don't like two lines too, especially here as the symbol of -VP is big enough ;) .
But now to the Crossroad and Atman.
The principle is at every step in this line: you get a better treasure but more -VP. So you don't know whether you end up with the whole line. As they are non terminals you can always exchange them to the next traveller.
In the middle of the dark path there is Crossroad, better than gold because of +1 Buy but -3. So perhaps your decision is: it is a powerful treasure but is it worth the Minus-Victory points? It depends on the game: perhaps it will be a short game ( <18 turns? ) or is it a long game, so you can travel through the whole line? - your decision. While play testing I got the impression, that you can play both buying or getting two lines.
Now after your decision the second important card is Atman (BTW it is not a guy, but philosophical expression). Indeed it is another decision. It is clear after exchanging from Crossroad to Loophole you want to get Atman. Loophole is much money but has no +1 buy like Crossroad. So your goal is to exchange it to Atman, mostly near the endgame.
Once you played Loophole you loose the Minus-Victory point and get +2 VP instead :) . So it is like getting a province instead (loosing -4VP and getting +2 VP) but with much money while traveling.
But there is another interesting decision effect of Atman: There are but you have to trash it when playing and you loose 2VP! On the other side maybe you have at your last turn(s) a +1 buy (perhaps with Crossroad!) and you can empty province pile or other attractive winners. But the other player have a chance too. As Atman is a treasure perhaps there is a treasure-trasher in the supply ;) .
So it is your decision. There are many interferences to other Dominion cards - try and have fun.
Dark Path is an interesting decision-strategy and gives a new idea.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 02:46:01 am by herw »
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6495 on: August 03, 2020, 02:00:23 am »
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Thank you, X-tra! I know I was tossing around some earlier ideas using the same concept of returning a card to your discard pile after drawing a new hand, but I'm happier with this one where it's a curse rather than a blessing.

Anyway, on to Contest 83. I bet this name has already been taken, but I can't be arsed to check.

Contest 83: Bigger is Better: Design a card or landscape that has a big number in it.

Obviously, what qualifies as a "big number" is subjective and context-dependent. Drawing 3 cards isn't very big, but gaining 3 Golds definitely is. My advice would be to compare your card to other cards with similar effects and see where it stands; if it's on the higher end of the spectrum, it's likely going to be fine. I won't disqualify anyone if I don't think their card is big enough, but I would say that for vanilla bonuses other than +Buy a big amount would be 4 or more, and for most other things 3 or more would be enough.

You can have a card with a big cost, but it would be nice if the big cost were there because of some big effect the card has, rather than just being unrelated.

Some official cards and landscapes that would satisfy this criterion include: Council Room, Baron, Treasure Map, Tactician, Platinum, Trusty Steed, Embassy, Poor House, Beggar, Feodum, Death Cart, Hunting Grounds, Wine Merchant, Capital, Royal Blacksmith, Windfall, Dominate, Fool, Pooka, Acting Troupe, Scholar, Snowy Village, Animal Fair, Stampede, and Envoy.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6496 on: August 03, 2020, 04:52:31 am »
+5


I'm guessing 3 exiles is big.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6497 on: August 03, 2020, 06:29:56 am »
+2

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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6498 on: August 03, 2020, 07:57:36 am »
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I'm guessing 3 exiles is big.

I designed this card



For my expansion years ago.

... is that a coincidence?
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6499 on: August 03, 2020, 08:02:32 am »
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couple questions: 1 - the printed number has to be big, not that a card has "explosive synergy potential" or whatever?
So like, this doesn't cut it?:


2- does Mountain Pass qualify as an official landscape w big number?
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