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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1547103 times)

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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6350 on: July 19, 2020, 06:36:09 pm »
0

Note: reactions would only be able to react to the card being played, not discarded from exile, so the Attack type is useless on the card.

I don't think this needs a reaction type at all, since all it reacts to is itself. It could just be a standard dividing line, similar to when-gain.

The Reaction typing is that it reacts to a stimuli. Black Cat requires the card to be played to stop it from handing out all the curses in 1 turn with very few Black Cats. Not all reaction cards require it to be played, like Tunnel. Speaking of, the Tunnel wording is much more in line with what I'm trying to do I think. Also, if Ghost Ship is an attack then this is an attack, and you can attack if it's your turn or not.

Updated Submission: Marooner



Quote
+$3
Exile this and another card from your hand.
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it and each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts cards from their hand onto their deck until they have 3 cards in hand.

It's effect can't really be triggered more than once per round unless something allows you to draw back up like Council Room, and even then you're going to be putting the same things back most likely. I didn't want to put too many more words on there as it's very crowded already, and I checked that it's effect would still happen if discarded from Exile. It just opens it up to more shenanigans too.
the problem with the attack type isn't so much this, but the way existing moats, etc are phrased - "when another player plays an attack"; since this isn't 'played', it's reacted with, it can't be defended against, and so despite having adverse effects to other players, it can't be an attack (since it's "when-played" effect is not an attack, and also for reasons about being conservative in the typing of cards - ie, don't give a card an extra type if it doesn't use it.)
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6351 on: July 19, 2020, 10:57:49 pm »
+2

Warrant
Action/Reaction - $3
You may put a card from your hand on top of your deck.
Discard your hand. +6 Cards.
-
When you move or return this to the top of your deck, you may turn this face up, leaving it that way, for +1 Coffers

Rules clarification:
Includes
  • gaining to the top of your deck
  • putting cards from your hand or the bottom of your deck, or exile, or anywhere else on top of your deck
  • revealing cards from the top of your deck and putting them back (even if not explicitly told to "put it back")
  • Same with "looking at" cards
.

Shuffling does not count, nor does deck counting, nor does drawing cards the cards above it. In general, you should know that you're revealing this card; I can't think of effects that would have you think you're revealing this card and accidentally revealing another.

This is crazy for $3, comparing to scholar you get one less card but you get to keep one, which I think makes the card worth 5 even without the reaction. The reaction is weird, maybe do when this enters the top of your deck, you may set this aside, if you do, etc.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6352 on: July 20, 2020, 12:12:18 am »
0

Good point. "+2 cards with sifting" is an official card, Embassy, and this is the draw to X version. Embassy is a strong card at the "$5 with a penalty" cost.

With Warrant you have (a lot) less choice over which 3 cards you discard (from a standard 5 card hand). It gets weaker on successive plays, but you get self comboing from the reaction in return, and you get all the draw to X combos too.

Back to the drawing board.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6353 on: July 20, 2020, 07:54:51 am »
+1

There are some problems with putting an attack on a reaction, since reacting with a card doesn't count as playing it, so it slips under the radar for reactions like Moat. The Moat reaction effect would only come into play as you put the Marooner in exile, not as you force the opponents to put cards on their deck. Either remove the Attack type completely, or use a wording that lets you play the card with the same effect (for example "When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may play it.") This could become a mess real fast, so I recommend the first option.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6354 on: July 20, 2020, 08:31:13 am »
0

I update my submission once again. Comparing it to Cartographer makes 5 cards seem like a lot.



Quote
Scouting Party
Action-Reserve - 4$
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.
----------------------------------------------
You may call this before or after you resolve an Action to reveal the top 4 cards of your Deck: discard any number and put the rest back in any order.
----------------------------------------------
When you gain this, put it on your Tavern mat.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:37:27 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6355 on: July 20, 2020, 10:08:18 am »
+4

This submission has been update (this version is now obsolete). Got to page 256 for the newest version.

An odd idea I first posted on the Discord in the "Variant" subcategory. Coincidentally, it fits like a glove within the rules of this week's contest, so hey, why not!

   

  • Those blue spheres are not tokens, they are a vanishing-per-turn resource, just like Treasures are.
  • The 3 Shop Kingdoms do count toward a 3-piles ending, just like a Young Witch's Bane pile does.
  • There are no cost restriction on what can be on the shop mat. All 3 of them could thus be cards. Or King's Court might be on there. Anything goes!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 02:48:40 pm by X-tra »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6356 on: July 20, 2020, 12:14:16 pm »
+1

An odd idea I first posted on the Discord in the "Variant" subcategory. Coincidentally, it fits like a glove within the rules of this week's contest, so hey, why not!

   

  • Those blue spheres are not tokens, they are a vanishing-per-turn resource, just like Treasures are.
  • The 3 Shop Kingdoms do count toward a 3-piles ending, just like a Young Witch's Bane pile does.
  • There are no cost restriction on what can be on the shop mat. All 3 of them could thus be cards. Or King's Court might be on there. Anything goes!

So the only way to ever afford something that costs more than 3 Spheres is to get and play multiple Specialty Shops, right?

What about cards with costs other than ? Are debt and potion costs excluded from being options in the shop?

Does buying a card from the shop use up a buy like normal?

What about overpay? Since it doesn't actually change the cost of a card, I would assume you could buy Doctor for 3 blue spheres and then overpay some amount of for the usual effect?

What about cost reduction? If you play Bridge and cards cost less, does that reduce the cost of items in the shop? (Do those items actually cost blue spheres, or do you just use the blue spheres to pay the cost which is still in coins?)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 12:42:54 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6357 on: July 20, 2020, 02:07:06 pm »
0

This message has been edited for clarifications further down this thread.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 09:18:53 am by X-tra »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6358 on: July 20, 2020, 03:41:56 pm »
0

    Cards with a in their cost… it’s touchy. I would be tempted to say that you need a Potion in play to buy these, but that would go against the statement saying that these cards “[…] can only be bought with ”. Maybe another wording could be employed to tackle this issue. Or maybe a simple note in the FAQ could explain that unusual situation. But as it is, I’m just going to rule that you can buy such cards with a Potion in play. Yeah.
    [/list]
    It is the most natural solution. The only other option is to not use cards with Potion costs for the Shop.

    I like the idea quite a lot. The only issue I see is the low granularity, i.e. to buy the good stuff from the shop you usually need two Speciality Shops.
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    GendoIkari

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6359 on: July 20, 2020, 04:24:29 pm »
    +1

    What about cards with costs other than ? Are debt and potion costs excluded from being options in the shop?
    is a direct, proportional cost to .
    • Cards costing should not cause any issue. For instance, having 6, you could buy an Overlord on the Shop mat and end up with as usual.

    I don't quite get how this works... if Overlord is on the Shop mat, then it costs like normal. So when you buy it, you take , and you wouldn't spend any as part of buying it. You then have the opportunity to pay off debt... it sounds like you're saying that you can pay off debt using in this case; but only if the reason you have debt is that you bought a card from the Shop mat? I don't see how that fits within a rules framework... you can always pay off debt using ; which means you would in this case be able to buy Overlord by indirectly spending 6 and ? Or you can spend to pay off your debt. Either way, nothing stops a player who has never played a Specialty Shop from buying an Overlord from the Shop mat.

    Unrelated, but what if Animal Fair is on the Shop Mat?
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 04:28:26 pm by GendoIkari »
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6360 on: July 20, 2020, 04:35:49 pm »
    0

    One other thing with Overpay... you are always allowed to Overpay other types of cost; such as Potion. So are you trying to say that when you Overpay with a card from the Shop mat, that you cannot use ? The rules need to be clarified extra here; because overpay is not part of the cost of the card or buying the card... it's a separate event that triggers after you buy the card that then lets you spend more stuff to get something else. So saying as a rule that cards on the Shop mat can only be bought with blue spheres is not enough to prevent someone from using to get an overpay effect. I don't know a good way you could even clarify something like that... it's way more complicated to try and have a rule that says that if a card on the Shop mat has overpay, then you can only overpay by spending blue spheres (or Potions). And if you overpay with blue spheres, then it triggers whatever abilities there are on the card that normally trigger based on overpaying . Instead you could simply say that spending blue Spheres for coins only applies to buying the card; overpay would still be dealt with normally.
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6361 on: July 20, 2020, 04:36:23 pm »
    0

    Either way, nothing stops a player who has never played a Specialty Shop from buying an Overlord from the Shop mat.
    The rules of Shop do:
    These 3 Kingdom piles can only be gained by being bought with .

    The wording is not perfect but it is pretty obvious, and X-tra explicitly said so, that you need a Specialty Shop in play in order to be able to Buys stuff from Shop.
    A rule like e.g. "you cannot buy cards from the Shop unless you have produced this turn" might make the whole Debt interaction thingy more clear.

    About overpay, well, that is hyperobvious: you can only use the blue stuff for whatever you acquire from the Shop.
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 04:39:54 pm by segura »
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    GendoIkari

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6362 on: July 20, 2020, 04:39:30 pm »
    0

    Either way, nothing stops a player who has never played a Specialty Shop from buying an Overlord from the Shop mat.
    The rules of Shop do:
    These 3 Kingdom piles can only be gained by being bought with .

    The wording is not perfect but it is pretty obvious, and X-tra explicitly said so, that you need a Specialty Shop in play in order to be able to Buys stuff from Shop.
    A rule like e.g. "you cannot buy cards from the Shop unless you have produced this turn" might make the whole Debt interaction thingy more clear.

    His own example showed that you can still buy Overlord. That doesn't make sense because you don't use spheres to buy Overlord. Unless by "being bought with blue spheres" he actually meant something like what you said, "being bought while you have at least one blue sphere". But that's not what people normally mean when they say "buy with something". My point was that you can't ever buy Overlord with blue spheres, just like you can't buy it with .
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6363 on: July 20, 2020, 04:44:54 pm »
    0

    Either way, nothing stops a player who has never played a Specialty Shop from buying an Overlord from the Shop mat.
    The rules of Shop do:
    These 3 Kingdom piles can only be gained by being bought with .

    The wording is not perfect but it is pretty obvious, and X-tra explicitly said so, that you need a Specialty Shop in play in order to be able to Buys stuff from Shop.
    A rule like e.g. "you cannot buy cards from the Shop unless you have produced this turn" might make the whole Debt interaction thingy more clear.

    His own example showed that you can still buy Overlord. That doesn't make sense because you don't use spheres to buy Overlord.
    The point is that you need a non-zero amount of blue stuff in order to do anything on Shop.
    That is what Shop says. And as always, stuff on cards or other game elements overwrites the general rules.

    If you could Buy cards with Debt costs from Shop, it would make absolutely no sense at all. The whole idea of Shop (not a new one, plenty of fan cards play with this idea) is to have Kingdom cards that are "locked", that can only be gained if you have a particular card in play or jump through some other hoops. From this design idea the notion that you cannot Buy Debt cards unless you have a Specialty Shop in play emerges pretty naturally
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 04:46:02 pm by segura »
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    GendoIkari

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6364 on: July 20, 2020, 04:46:11 pm »
    0

    Either way, nothing stops a player who has never played a Specialty Shop from buying an Overlord from the Shop mat.
    The rules of Shop do:
    These 3 Kingdom piles can only be gained by being bought with .

    The wording is not perfect but it is pretty obvious, and X-tra explicitly said so, that you need a Specialty Shop in play in order to be able to Buys stuff from Shop.
    A rule like e.g. "you cannot buy cards from the Shop unless you have produced this turn" might make the whole Debt interaction thingy more clear.

    His own example showed that you can still buy Overlord. That doesn't make sense because you don't use spheres to buy Overlord.
    The point is that you need a non-zero amount of blue stuff in order to do anything on Shop.
    That is what Shop says. And as always, stuff on cards or other game elements overwrites the general rules.

    That might be what his intent is for Shop, but it's definitely not what Shop says... it says, as you quoted:

    These 3 Kingdom piles can only be gained by being bought with .

    By normal understanding of the phrase "being bought with", it would mean "buying it by spending ", not "being bought while you have at least 1 ".

    Quote
    If you could Buy cards with Debt costs from Shop, it would make absolutely no sense at all. The whole idea of Shop (not a new one, plenty of fan cards play with this idea) is to have Kingdom cards that are "locked", that can only be gained if you have a particular card in play or jump through some other hoops. From this design idea the notion that you cannot Buy Debt cards unless you have a Specialty Shop in play emerges pretty naturally

    I agree.. but that's still a different rule than what was said originally, and also different than his example of Overlord. The very fact that you could have only 1 available and still buy an Overlord from the Shop shows that. The is not being used as currency to buy the Overlord... rather it is simply being used as a resource that unlocks the right to buy an Overlord or the normal cost of . Then it gets extra weird because there's also an additional rule that presumably says that can be paid off with either or .
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 04:49:00 pm by GendoIkari »
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6365 on: July 20, 2020, 04:54:17 pm »
    +1

    Sure, the wording could be improved (indirectly: the clarification text is probably too long and thus should be put into a virtual rule document or FAQ) but the idea is pretty clear.
    The again something like "You cannot Buy cards from this unless you have a Specialty Shop in play / unless you have at least 1 ." would be fairly short.

    The other pragmatic solution to avoid funky rule issues is to never put cards with non-standard costs onto Shop.
    « Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 04:56:00 pm by segura »
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6366 on: July 20, 2020, 04:55:23 pm »
    0

    Sure, the wording could be improved (well, not really, that belongs into a virtual rule document or FAQ in order to reduce the amount of text on the card/mat) but the idea is pretty clear.

    The idea is very clear (and good) for cards that only have cost in . Likely the clearest, simplest, and best idea would simply be to limit the shop to cards that only cost . You'd still have to figure out a clear wording for the overpay rule, but that's it. But allowing Debt-cost cards requires answering the questions about how debt works in such a game. It might be clear that the intent is that you can't buy Overlord unless you have at least 1 blue sphere, but that still doesn't answer the question about how you are allowed to pay off debt.
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6367 on: July 20, 2020, 04:57:49 pm »
    +1

    Yeah, it is not a biggie if those few Debt/Potion cards never appear in the Shop and it avoids all rule issues.
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6368 on: July 20, 2020, 05:30:11 pm »
    0

    Quote
    Pushy Salesman
    - Action - Duration - Attack
    Now and at start of next turn: +, +1 Buy.
    At the start of next turn: If no other player gained a curse since your last turn, +1 Coffers.
    -
    While this is in play, when another player ends their buy phase, they reveal their hand. If they have any unspent or unplayed treasures, they gain a curse and a copper.

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6369 on: July 20, 2020, 06:11:53 pm »
    +1

    Quote
    Salt
    Types: Treasure, Duration
    Cost: $3
    $1. When you play this and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy.
    While this is in play, when you gain or trash a card costing at most $4, you may Exile it.
    A Copper with a Buy now and next turn.  Its in-play effect Exiles cheap Victory cards as you gain them, allows you to keep cheaper cards as you trash them for benefit or they are trashed by those rare trashing Attacks, and catches incoming junk cards.

    It is capped at Exiling $4-cost cards because Exiling Provinces on-gain sounds silly, and Enclave suggests that exiling Duchies is pretty alright.  Throwing extra $2-Buys at +1VP seems pretty okay.
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6370 on: July 20, 2020, 09:55:24 pm »
    0




    Allies update:

    Contracter [one per player]
    +1 Card, +1 Action, exchange one of your Ally cards with another player's.

    Watchman - Ally - Reaction
    Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.
    -------------------------------------------
    While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a card you may trash it.

    Financier - Ally - Reaction
    +1 Buy, +1$
    --------------------
    While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a treasure you may set this aside. If you do, play this and return this to your ally mat at the end of your turn.

    Thug - Ally - Attack
    +1$. Discard a card. Each other player discards down to three cards in hand

    Conman - Ally - Attack
    +2$, Each other player takes their -1$ token or gains a copper, their choice.

    Craftsman - Ally
    +1 Action, gain a card costing up to 3$.

    Hag - Ally - Attack
    Each other player gains a curse. You may trash up to 2 card from your hand.

    Tavernkeeper - Ally
    +2 Cards, +2 Actions, discard 2 cards.

    Courtesan - Ally - Victory
    +3$, take your -1 card token.
    -----------------
    This is worth 2 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game.

    Propagandist - Ally - Victory
    +1 Action, +1 Buy, +1$
    ----------------------------------------------------
    When this leaves your ally mat, take your -1$ token.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    This is worth 5 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game.

    Slaver - Ally - Curse
    +3 Cards, +1 Buy
    ----------------------------------------------
    This is worth -3 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6371 on: July 20, 2020, 11:23:21 pm »
    0

    <Employ & Allies>

    I like the idea, but a couple of them are very strong or weak compared to the others. Hag is probably a $5 equivalent, while Thug is weak enough to be a $2. Propagandist is also a $2 until the end of the game. Most of the others seem to be in the $3-4 range. Also, having VP on allies doesn't sound fun.

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6372 on: July 21, 2020, 07:42:15 am »
    0

    An odd idea I first posted on the Discord in the "Variant" subcategory. Coincidentally, it fits like a glove within the rules of this week's contest, so hey, why not!

       

    • Those blue spheres are not tokens, they are a vanishing-per-turn resource, just like Treasures are.
    • The 3 Shop Kingdoms do count toward a 3-piles ending, just like a Young Witch's Bane pile does.
    • There are no cost restriction on what can be on the shop mat. All 3 of them could thus be cards. Or King's Court might be on there. Anything goes!

    Adding a new resource in this way seems really sketchy, why not use a wording like "You may spend $ to buy cards from the shop mat costing up to 3$ per Speciality Shop you have in play. If you do: +1$ per $ you spent"? It is still very similar, gameplay-wise, but much less messy.
    « Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 08:00:00 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6373 on: July 21, 2020, 09:19:05 am »
    +1

    Quote from: segura
    Stuff about Specialty Shop.
    Quote from: GendoIkari
    Stuff about Specialty Shop.

    Hehehe, you guys are really going all in into this debate. :)

    Note that I think this is really cool that this discussion is happening. Discussing the shortcomings of a design is pretty noble and truly shows a desire to make a suggested card as good as it can be. I mean, you both do not get anything in return... Anyway, this is appreciated and thank you guys for trimming that time off your day just for this! I just hope it doesn’t look like I’m holding this thread hostage with this mega discussion though. :D

    Now onto the card at hand:

    I was pretty confident in my first answer to you regarding the Debt part. However, you made me question if I remembered how this gameplay element really played out. I had this all figured out in my mind. But I actually re-read Empires’ rule book. And yeah, turns out, you pay off your AFTER buying the card. In my noggin’, the way I remembered Debt was that you only took as much as the difference between what you pay and the bought card’s cost. And surely enough, that’s not how it works. And so, my example with Overload is nullified. You are right, GendoIkari, you cannot pay off your with . However, you may pay the part of a card on the Shop mat and pay off the it comes with with the rest of your Treasures in play, as you would usually do (plus the you accumulated with your Action cards). So you could pay 8 to gain a Fortune, paying off the with like, 2 Golds and a Silver in play as usual.

    This raises another concern with Overlord. Since only the part of a card is locked behind its equivalent, Overlord, which costs , could be bought from the Shop mat even if you have no set aside Specialty Shops. That’s because you have 0, which is equivalent to . So you can buy it willy nelly. This is not intended. Similarly, I made a custom Kingdom Action card costing in another thread. This card, if on the Shop mat, would suffer the same consequence.

    Thus, a lower cost limit must be imposed for it to work as intended. And so I will update my card; probably a little later since I think Specialty Shop has had enough attention for the time being. There are reasons why I do not want to put an upper bond for the cost of what can be put on the Shop mat, even if doing so would remove all and costing candidates from being put on that mat.

    Side note: I’m going back onto what I said about Overpay. Wasn’t really thinking straight there too. You cannot overpay with . So you can only pay the base price of an overpay card on the Shop mat. All this stuff is trivial for the competition though. A simple FAQ would clarify these questions.

    Thanks y’all!
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    LordBaphomet

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    Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
    « Reply #6374 on: July 21, 2020, 01:30:31 pm »
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    Allies update:

    Contracter [one per player]
    +1 Card, +1 Action, exchange one of your Ally cards with another player's.

    Watchman - Ally - Reaction
    Discard a card. Draw up to 5 cards in hand.
    -------------------------------------------
    While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a card you may trash it.

    Financier - Ally - Reaction
    +1 Buy, +1$
    --------------------
    While this is on your ally mat, when you gain a treasure you may set this aside. If you do, play this and return this to your ally mat at the end of your turn.

    Thug - Ally - Attack
    +2 Cards, each other player with 4 or more cards in their hand discards one card.

    Conman - Ally - Attack
    +2$, Each other player takes 1 debt or gains a copper, their choice.

    Craftsman - Ally
    +1 Action, gain a card costing up to 3$.

    Hag - Ally - Attack
    Each other player gains a curse. You may trash a curse from your hand.

    Tavernkeeper - Ally
    +2 Cards, +2 Actions, discard 2 cards.

    Courtesan - Ally - Victory
    +3$, take your -1 card token.
    -----------------
    This is worth 2 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game.

    Propagandist - Ally
    +1 Action, +1 Buy, +1$
    ----------------------------------------------------
    When this leaves your ally mat, take your -1$ token.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    While this is on your ally mat, if you bought a victory card this turn, you may take 1 debt to gain 1VP.

    Slaver - Ally - Curse
    +3 Cards, +1 Buy
    ----------------------------------------------
    This is worth -2 VP if on your Allies mat at the end of the game
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    Hail Satan, hail yourself!
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