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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 190204 times)

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Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3725 on: October 09, 2019, 05:49:35 pm »
+1


Quote
Warfare
Types: Event
Cost: $3
Take the Holy Land. Trash a Victory card with the lowest cost in coins from the Supply.
Quote
Holy Land
Types: Artifact

When you gain a Victory card, each other player may trash a card costing at least $3 from their hand. If they do, they draw a card. Otherwise, they gain a Curse.

Fight over the Holy Land. Warfare trashes Victory cards from the Supply so that
1) You can buy Estates more easily to leverage the Holy Land while emptying Supply piles to threaten a 3-pile.
2) It prevents the objective of the game from ever turning into "fight over the Holy Land forever."
Other players have the option to trash a valuable card or gain a Curse so that postponing a 3-pile is possible (or other times when losing a card is better than gaining a Curse).

I don't know if I like it, but that might be my anti-expansion-mixing bias. Maybe I'm also a little upset with myself considering Holy Land was a pretty cool Artifact pubby made a bit ago. Maybe because of similarities between this and Salt the Earth. EDIT: Maybe because it feels like a modification of segura's Parade (which I realized shortly after posting).
Anyone else have any thoughts?

History:
Holy Land originally didn't draw a card when another player trashed a card.



Quote
Supervision
Types: Event
Cost: $0
+1 Buy. At the start of your Buy phase, you may discard a card with two or more types to take the Sandals.
Quote
Sandals
Types: Artifact

At the end of your Buy phase, choose one: Put 1VP here; or take the VP from this.
...
It could be too conservative but I did not want to make it too easy to just discard a Mill or whatever to grab whatever VPs are on Sandals.
This would function virtually identically and much smoother if Supervision occurred when you bought it and Sandals triggered at the start of your turn. I bet Sandals will never pop in 3-player games (without Outpost or Mission): The chance of 2 players missing in a row when Sandals has 2+VP on it (which will be around turn 7(!), unless the board is so bad it is better to lose your turn 1/2 buy on turn 3/4 to get Sandals) is just about 0%. Honestly, Sandals giving 0.5VP per turn--less really because it is uncertain--is probably too little. Even 1VP might be too little.

Quote
Surveil
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top three cards of your deck. You may trash or discard any number of them, then put the rest back in any order. If you have trashed three or more cards this turn, take the Beacon and put your deck into your discard pile.
Quote
Beacon
Types: Artifact

When you would shuffle, you may look through and trash a card from your discard pile before shuffling. Play with your deck face-up.
Beacon is really cool, though I can think of plenty of players who will mistake their deck and discard pile.
Surveil is ridiculous though. $4 trashes 4 Coppers\Estates on turn 1. Surveil should probably not trash so many cards so freely as it makes Beacon's trashing less notable.

Quote
Mining
Types: Event
Cost: $3
Trash a card from your hand or in play, then gain a card costing up to $2 more than it. If you trashed a card costing $4 or more, take the Pick.
Quote
Pick
Types: Artifact

When you trash a card, you may gain a card costing less than it.
I mean Mining is a Remodel+ whenever you want it, which means it should at least cost $4 (and probably have a drawback if it's that cheap). You could probably get away with a $5 cost if you change Pick to be non-optional.
I disagree with spineflu's argument because buying an Event is so incomparable to buying, drawing, and playing an Action.
I do agree with the sentiment though. Trashing Estates in the opening is freakishly powerful. Trashing Golds from play for Provinces is a super-powerful end-game tool as well. Mining could probably cost $6 as written and would still be pretty strong. It you want it to cost less, I'd remove the ability to trash from hand.

Quote
Subscribe
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action costing up to $4. Move the Trophy token to its supply pile. (when it's the third time you play a card from its pile during your turns, take the Floating Trophy.)
Quote
Floating Trophy
Types: Artifact

When the game ends, +3 VP.
Assuming there is only one Trophy token (which seems to be the case, considering its wording), I don't think there is any incentive to buy the first Subscribe. I can benefit just as much from it without having to buy it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 09:23:45 am by Fragasnap »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3726 on: October 09, 2019, 06:28:27 pm »
+3

Liturgy
Event - $3
+2 Buys
Take the Confessional

Confessional
Artifact
When you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3727 on: October 09, 2019, 08:22:38 pm »
+1


Quote
Warfare
Types: Event
Cost: $3
Take the Holy Land. Trash a Victory card with the lowest cost in coins from the Supply.
Quote
Holy Land
Types: Artifact

When you gain a Victory card, each other player may trash a card costing at least $3 from their hand. If they don't they gain a Curse.

Fight over the Holy Land. Warfare trashes Victory cards from the Supply so that
1) You can buy Estates more easily to leverage the Holy Land while emptying Supply piles to threaten a 3-pile.
2) It prevents the objective of the game from ever turning into "fight over the Holy Land forever."
Other players have the option to trash a valuable card or gain a Curse so that postponing a 3-pile is possible (or other times when losing a card is better than gaining a Curse).

I don't know if I like it, but that might be my anti-expansion-mixing bias. Maybe I'm also a little upset with myself considering Holy Land was a pretty cool Artifact pubby made a bit ago. Maybe because of similarities between this and Salt the Earth.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
Warfare is kinda interesting in a Vineyards game. You could make it Real Weird for shelters games by having you put your hand into play without playing it and have it trash the Victory card with the lowest cost in coins from in play or the supply - also lets you do strange things with "trash a card in play"/"for each card you've got in play" when you've got +Buys.

Holy Land, man that's a stupid powerful curser. Maybe change it to when you Buy a victory card? and / or lower the trash-a-card-dodge cost to $2 (because presumably someone's gonna try to spam Estates to curse everyone else and then they can dodge it when someone takes it away from them)?  That has the additional effect of making Going For It maybe not a wise thing to do right away - other players can trash their starting Estates to dodge.

I think they're workable as-is. I think if I were to redesign them, I'd have Warfare trash a Curse from the Supply as well (weakens Holy Land's Cursing ability), and (and maybe this is last contest in my brain still) make Holy Land something like "When you gain a Victory card, choose one: each other player may trash a card costing at least $2 from their hand, and if they don't, they gain a Curse; or return a Curse from your hand to the Supply." so you can choose whether you wanna fight or grow. Thematic! but maybe not in a good way.



Quote
Surveil
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Reveal the top three cards of your deck. You may trash or discard any number of them, then put the rest back in any order. If you have trashed three or more cards this turn, take the Beacon and put your deck into your discard pile.
Quote
Beacon
Types: Artifact

When you would shuffle, you may look through and trash a card from your discard pile before shuffling. Play with your deck face-up.
Beacon is really cool, though I can think of plenty of players who will mistake their deck and discard pile.
Surveil is ridiculous though. $4 trashes 4 Coppers\Estates on turn 1. Surveil should probably not trash so many cards so freely as it makes Beacon's trashing less notable.


That's a good point. I think drop the price tag on Surveil to $2 and have it peek at one is probably a saner solution - no turn one Beacons then (unless Cursed Gold? but thats fine, I guess, since everyone can do it. Feature, not bug.). I'll update that tomorrow when I'm back at my Real Computer.

I guess I didn't really think about whether people would mix up their deck/discard - I keep them on opposite sides of the "in play" zone, with Deck on the left all the time. Looks like that's how the Playmats for the base game laid things out too. I suppose I could include Banes style "Deck" and "Discard" cards but that kinda seems like overkill. I think they'll figure it out.

Liturgy
Event - $3
+2 Buys
Take the Confessional

Confessional
Artifact
When you gain a card, you may trash a card from your hand


Hell Yeah More Buy-splitters
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 08:33:51 pm by spineflu »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3728 on: October 09, 2019, 11:43:29 pm »
+1



Gives you an extra buy and special access to cards. Like many cards in Dominion, it may or may not be worth it depending on the kingdom.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3729 on: October 09, 2019, 11:50:07 pm »
+1

Okay, let's try this again:





Quote
Accolade
Event - Looter - $0
If there is no Debt on this, take 6 Debt, putting it on this (it remains yours.) If you did, take the Sword and gain a Ruins and 2 cards each costing up to $4.

Quote
Sword
Artifact
At the start of your turn, play an Action card from your hand (or reveal you can't), then trash it and gain one costing exactly $1 more.

Clarification: When you buy Accolade, you take 6 Debt and put it on the Accolade card. The Debt is still yours and you still have to pay it off before you can buy anything else. I did this so that you can insure that you can use the Sword's effect at least once before somebody else snatches it away.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3730 on: October 10, 2019, 09:42:30 am »
+2

Holy Land, man that's a stupid powerful curser.
I don't think so. I posted, and since played a bit, Parade here, a $4 Project which curses when you gain green. It is good but not overpowered. Holy Land is significantly weaker as you gotta fight for it and as you have an out-option.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3731 on: October 10, 2019, 09:44:35 am »
+2



Gives you an extra buy and special access to cards. Like many cards in Dominion, it may or may not be worth it depending on the kingdom.
I like the flexibility of this. Sometimes you only want the Travelling Fair style extra Buy, sometimes you want temporary access to a good $4.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3732 on: October 10, 2019, 11:43:15 am »
+1

Holy Land, man that's a stupid powerful curser.
I don't think so. I posted, and since played a bit, Parade here, a $4 Project which curses when you gain green. It is good but not overpowered. Holy Land is significantly weaker as you gotta fight for it and as you have an out-option.

I feel that, but I still think it's too powerful. Parade is *way* underpriced for my taste, and also is kinda apples-to-oranges - the cursing goes both ways there, where everyone can buy it. With Warfare/Holy Land, if it's a no-plus-buys game, someone's gotta make the call on whether to Warfare or work on their Actual Deck, and meanwhile the Holy Land player gets to curse them and/or break their components. The first person to get there in a no-plus-buys game is in a way better position to hand out punishment.

Speaking of outs: There's not much junk in the $3+ range (Potions after the potion cards have run out/you have enough of them? Swindler in midgame? Silvers in a Colony game after you've started to get Platina? Masterpiece?), so your out is to trash a component or economy, and that's likely going to hurt more than a Curse will; meanwhile going for green is something you want to do anyways, so while there may be some hubris going for it too early, it's more of a rich-get-richer vibe that I'm getting from it (same rationale DXV used when he said he'd change Margrave to lose the +Buy).


ALSO
That dodge gets Painful in a game with cost reduction.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 07:52:55 pm by spineflu »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3733 on: October 10, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »
0



Gives you an extra buy and special access to cards. Like many cards in Dominion, it may or may not be worth it depending on the kingdom.
I like the flexibility of this. Sometimes you only want the Travelling Fair style extra Buy, sometimes you want temporary access to a good $4.

Yep. It's got a little bit of a parallel to Traveling Fair. Both give you an extra buy for $2, both give you another ability that benefits from that +buy, and both don't give you a benefit (besides the +buy) past the 1st time you buy it each turn.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3734 on: October 10, 2019, 05:16:08 pm »
0



For Excavation, you trash two treasures of any value that you have in play. Since the event cost's $3, it's easy to trash some Coppers but you may have to trash something more valuable due to hand limits. You also have to trash a Victory card that isn't an Estate, so a Duchy purchase is needed beforehand.

The Holy Relic's ability only applies to the standard bonuses written on a card. If the card lacks these bonuses, nothing happens. For example, Village would become +2 Cards, +3 Actions while Throne Room would remain unaffected.

Edit: added majiponi's edit suggestion to Excavation
Edit 2: altered Holy Relic based on input from naitchman, GendoIkari, and spineflu.
Edit 3: altered Excavation based on input from LibraryAdventurer
Edit 4: altered text of Holy Relic based on input from GendoIkari
Edit 5: altered text of Holy Relic after reading Kudasai's suggestion
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 11:49:24 pm by ShadowHawk »
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3735 on: October 10, 2019, 05:31:54 pm »
0



For Excavation, you trash two treasures of any value that you have in play. Since the event cost's $5, you may get lucky and trash Coppers but you may have to trash something more valuable. You also have to trash a Victory card that isn't an Estate.

The Holy Relic's ability only applies to the standard bonuses a card gives. If the card lacks these bonuses, nothing happens. For example, Village would become +2 Cards, +3 Actions while Throne Room would remain unaffected.
You should say "If you did trash 3 cards, ..."
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3736 on: October 10, 2019, 05:37:28 pm »
0

This would function virtually identically and much smoother if Supervision occurred when you bought it
Yeah, you are totally right. I screwed up the timing badly and changed Supervision.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 05:38:56 pm by segura »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3737 on: October 10, 2019, 06:24:54 pm »
+1



For Excavation, you trash two treasures of any value that you have in play. Since the event cost's $5, you may get lucky and trash Coppers but you may have to trash something more valuable. You also have to trash a Victory card that isn't an Estate.

The Holy Relic's ability only applies to the standard bonuses a card gives. If the card lacks these bonuses, nothing happens. For example, Village would become +2 Cards, +3 Actions while Throne Room would remain unaffected.

Edit: added majiponi's edit suggestion to Excavation

Despite how  difficult it is to get holy relic, I still feel it's too powerful. It's pretty much mandatory to fight for it (there are so many cards with vanilla bonuses, it's pretty much guaranteed to have some in the kingdom). And if I take a couple turns to take it away from my opponent (which can easily happen if I can't get a duchy/alt vp in my hand) he has a huge advantage. Even weak cards like pearl diver suddenly become better than a lost city, lab becomes lost city+ lab, and peddler becomes vilage+ lab+ conspirator. That can be game changing even for only 1 turn let alone the whole game.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3738 on: October 10, 2019, 07:17:05 pm »
+1

I don’t think the wording on Holy Relic works like you want. As worded; I see no reason why all of those bonuses wouldn’t be added to every card. 0+1=1; so a card that gives 0 cards would give 1 instead. I don’t know a good wording that does what you want though.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3739 on: October 10, 2019, 08:00:59 pm »
0

Holy Relic would be plenty strong if it only affected one of the +Vanilla bonuses (compare/contrast with Vanilla bonus adventures tokens); Also then you'd be able to rephrase to something that'd fit on the card but not turn 0 -> 1.
Also Gendo's right, as worded, it turns everything into a peddler+.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 08:24:11 pm by spineflu »
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3740 on: October 10, 2019, 08:26:53 pm »
+1

Holy Relic would be plenty strong if it only affected one of the +Vanilla bonuses (compare/contrast with Vanilla bonus adventures tokens); Also then you'd be able to rephrase to something that'd fit on the card but not turn 0 -> 1.
Also Gendo's right, as worded, it turns everything into a peddler+.

Make that a Market w/ +
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ShadowHawk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3741 on: October 10, 2019, 09:46:14 pm »
+2

Did Donald X ever come up with a term for those basic type of effects?

Here is an edit based on the above. I changed the wording, and limited it to the first action played per turn.

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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3742 on: October 11, 2019, 01:33:56 am »
0

Here is an edit based on the above. I changed the wording, and limited it to the first action played per turn.


I like this version. And now that Holy Relic isn't OP, you can tweak excavation to make it a little easier to get.

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3743 on: October 11, 2019, 08:05:26 am »
0

Now it seems like a less elegant version of a Throne Room thingy. I also feel that it is more expensive / hard to get / swingy than Citadel.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3744 on: October 11, 2019, 10:12:43 am »
+1


[/quote]
I like this version. And now that Holy Relic isn't OP, you can tweak excavation to make it a little easier to get.
[/quote]

Agreed on the suggestion. Dropped the price to $3 since you have to purchase a Duchy to pull it off.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3745 on: October 11, 2019, 10:28:30 am »
+1

Did Donald X ever come up with a term for those basic type of effects?

Here is an edit based on the above. I changed the wording, and limited it to the first action played per turn.



Instead of "once per turn on the first action you play"... try "the first time you play an action card during each of your turns" a la Citadel.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 10:29:34 am by GendoIkari »
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3746 on: October 11, 2019, 12:11:24 pm »
0

Decompose
Event, $2
+1 Buy, take the Compost

Compost
Artifact
At the end of your turn (after drawing), trash a card from your hand.

It's like a lesser Cathedral, so the cost is lower and it doesn't take a buy. You're guaranteed to get at least one use out of it before it gets stolen, as well.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3747 on: October 11, 2019, 10:50:52 pm »
+1

@ Kudasai

The Curio illustration is by Tom Garden https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2010/11/2/one-step-forward-two-steps-back/

Interesting set. It's a tempting gamble, but it's utility is very much tied to the Kingdom cards available. At least it favors engines over BM.
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ShadowHawk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3748 on: October 11, 2019, 11:13:38 pm »
0



Instead of "once per turn on the first action you play"... try "the first time you play an action card during each of your turns" a la Citadel.
[/quote]

Done. Thank you
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3749 on: October 12, 2019, 08:09:47 am »
+1

At least it favors engines over BM.
Not necessarily. When you engine already works and draws nearly the entire deck, Unleash is like a Villa, you buy it for the Action and not the cards.
In a money deck with a source of extra Buys on the other hand, this can potentially yield 2 Provinces or more.

I think that this very strategic flexibility, the universality of the two cards, is the main asset of Kudasai's design.
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