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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 123428 times)

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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3050 on: August 06, 2019, 09:48:36 am »
+1



This should just be orange, not orange and white.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3051 on: August 06, 2019, 10:18:56 am »
0



Quote
Charlatan
$3 - Action/Duration/Attack

+1 Buy
Until your next turn, when another player buys a card, they choose a card they have in play and exchange it for a card costing at most the same as the chosen card with a different type. If they didn't, they return the bought card to the supply. At the start of your next turn: Gain a Silver to your hand.

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3052 on: August 06, 2019, 10:46:59 am »
0

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 10:48:41 am by faust »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3053 on: August 06, 2019, 11:02:45 am »
0

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3054 on: August 06, 2019, 11:15:19 am »
0

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.

Yeah while I don't quite get the use of the word "veto" here; this does seem like this basically prevents players from buying anything a lot of the time; unless they have junk in play. Early on you'll just be trading your Coppers for Curses every time you buy a card, and then when you're out of Coppers; whether because there's trashing or because you exchanged them all; you'll be forced to decide between buying a new action card and keeping your old action cards... it basically turns every card in your opponents deck into a one-shot.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3055 on: August 06, 2019, 11:16:02 am »
+1

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.
While it is likely to convert Copper into Curse after the first shuffle, in the middlegame it is likely less harsh than Swindler. It can even be good for you!
You can e.g. exchange a Merchant into a Silver or a Silver into a Merchant. That's is arguably an idealized case but many Kingdoms have decent stuff below $3 and this very Attack is after all a Silver-gainer.
If Action piles quickly empty you have to return some engine pieces ... but as the piles are empty, you have a lot of Actions anyway so it is not a big issue.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3056 on: August 06, 2019, 11:18:46 am »
0

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.

Yeah while I don't quite get the use of the word "veto" here; this does seem like this basically prevents players from buying anything a lot of the time; unless they have junk in play. Early on you'll just be trading your Coppers for Curses every time you buy a card, and then when you're out of Coppers; whether because there's trashing or because you exchanged them all; you'll be forced to decide between buying a new action card and keeping your old action cards... it basically turns every card in your opponents deck into a one-shot.
Not really... you can exchange a $3 Action for a Silver and then Silver again for a $3 Action. If you have both in play, the net result will be nothing.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3057 on: August 06, 2019, 11:29:34 am »
+1

i hate that a $3 attack can veto my buy, and that this auto-vetos buying a copper when you've got nothing in play.

This is way stronger than it looks, especially for the price, and especially with the "different type" requirement - if you wanna go that route, go "different name" at the very least.
I think you misunderstand something - this does not veto any buys. It just makes it so that when you buy a card, one of the cards you have in play changes its form. The "if you didn't..." clause in there is just to prevent trying and failing to exchange Coppers when the Curses have run out.

EDIT: You're right that it does veto buying a Copper when you have nothing in play. But that's really a fringe case.

Right but like, it's a constant swindler while it's out; in a kingdom where buys are the only way to gain things, that's way too powerful. Its not even just the first buy in a turn - it's every buy. Way too strong for $3.

Yeah while I don't quite get the use of the word "veto" here; this does seem like this basically prevents players from buying anything a lot of the time; unless they have junk in play. Early on you'll just be trading your Coppers for Curses every time you buy a card, and then when you're out of Coppers; whether because there's trashing or because you exchanged them all; you'll be forced to decide between buying a new action card and keeping your old action cards... it basically turns every card in your opponents deck into a one-shot.
Not really... you can exchange a $3 Action for a Silver and then Silver again for a $3 Action. If you have both in play, the net result will be nothing.

The net result will only be nothing if they have 2 buys and use them both. If they only buy a single card, their deck will have to change every turn. Maybe some decks are resilient enough to handle an engine piece becoming a Silver for a turn, but I feel like a lot of decks can't.

I was wrong about it shutting down buys though. The penalty is generally not going to make you decide to simply not buy a card... unless perhaps you only have s in play. Instead it's just going to act more like Swindler, except a weird Swindler where they have more control over what gets Swindled both from and to.

The more I talk about this, the more I feel like the card is too weak, not too strong... it will feel very annoying to be attacked by it, similar to how Swindler feels annoying. But I don't see a middle ground here... either the card shuts down your opponents deck, in which case it leads to unfun games... or the attack is less harmful than Swindler, in which case it's really, really weak because it's just Swindler with +buy instead of +.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3058 on: August 06, 2019, 11:58:08 am »
0

@Gendo -
feel like it's definitely going to shine in strength in kingdoms with a variety of costs - potions, debt, etc. - that there's nothing to change things into.

Also is <4> or <8> cheaper? because I don't think that's ever been errata'd.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3059 on: August 06, 2019, 12:09:34 pm »
+3

@Gendo -
feel like it's definitely going to shine in strength in kingdoms with a variety of costs - potions, debt, etc. - that there's nothing to change things into.

Also is <4> or <8> cheaper? because I don't think that's ever been errata'd.

Cheaper works the same with as it does with . is cheaper than , , and . It is not cheaper (or more expensive) than .
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3060 on: August 06, 2019, 12:19:43 pm »
0

The more I talk about this, the more I feel like the card is too weak, not too strong... it will feel very annoying to be attacked by it, similar to how Swindler feels annoying. But I don't see a middle ground here... either the card shuts down your opponents deck, in which case it leads to unfun games... or the attack is less harmful than Swindler, in which case it's really, really weak because it's just Swindler with +buy instead of +.
Swindler is swingy whereas this is not. That's a big advantage in my book.
Also, this card hand-gains Silver (not directly comparable to Swindler being a terminal Silver but nonetheless, Charlatan provides economy) which acts at the same time as mild defense mechanism against itself. This is precisely why I have a hard time seeing the "shutdown". Even in an engine with expensive pieces, i.e. little or nothing that costs $3 or less, you can always convert those Silvers into Estates and then Coppers (this is obviously only possible in a mirror or in a Kingdom with other Silver gaining). That's nastier than a Swindler attack but less harsh than a trashing attack.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3061 on: August 06, 2019, 12:24:54 pm »
0

Also, this card hand-gains Silver (not directly comparable to Swindler being a terminal Silver but nonetheless, Charlatan provides economy) which acts at the same time as mild defense mechanism against itself. This is precisely why I have a hard time seeing the "shutdown". Even in an engine with expensive pieces, i.e. little or nothing that costs $3 or less, you can always convert those Silvers into Estates and then Coppers (this is obviously only possible in a mirror or in a Kingdom with other Silver gaining). That's nastier than a Swindler attack but less harsh than a trashing attack.

I completely missed the "gain a silver to your hand" part.

Which, while my own mistake, also goes to show that the card has way too much text.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3062 on: August 06, 2019, 01:12:19 pm »
0

My submission for this week:

Quote
Mine Worker ($5, Action-Duration-Reaction)

Now and at the start of your next turn: you may trash a Victory Card from your hand, to gain a card costing up to $3 more than it. If you don't, you may discard your hand for +5 Cards.
-
Before resolving the effect of a Duration at the start of your turn, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, the duration will stay in play and effect will occur the start of your next turn as opposed to this turn.
-
In games using this, when you start a turn with 3 or more Durations in play, you may gain a Duchy or 3 Estates.


This card is similar to Governor in that it does many things and has a strong self-synergy. It has the following functionalities:
* Remodeling: Used to turn your Estates into Mineworkers (or other $5 costs). Or to turn your Duchies into Provinces.
* Reaction: Keeps the Mineworkers in play so you can trigger the "in games using this" effect. This reaction motivated me to design this card.
* Cycling: Used if you fail to have a Mineworker in your hand. Also a consolidation price if you have no Victory cards in hand when playing the card.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 01:27:09 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3063 on: August 06, 2019, 02:23:50 pm »
+4

Source gets a new wording to get rid of the Coin tokens.

At the start of each of your turns, you may turn this card by 90° clockwise for +$1, +1 Action, or +1 Buy. If this is upright after rotation, discard this.

(Remark: If this is in the discard pile, the “you may turn this by 90° for ...” will obviously lose track, so I don't need an “if this is still in play”.)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 02:35:15 pm by King Leon »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3064 on: August 06, 2019, 03:03:05 pm »
+2

Source gets a new wording to get rid of the Coin tokens.

At the start of each of your turns, you may turn this card by 90° clockwise for +$1, +1 Action, or +1 Buy. If this is upright after rotation, discard this.

(Remark: If this is in the discard pile, the “you may turn this by 90° for ...” will obviously lose track, so I don't need an “if this is still in play”.)
Fun fact: I have the tabletop campaign book that has this illustration on the cover.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3065 on: August 06, 2019, 04:05:47 pm »
+1



Quote
Charlatan
$3 - Action/Duration/Attack

+1 Buy
Until your next turn, when another player buys a card, they choose a card they have in play and exchange it for a card costing at most the same as the chosen card with a different type. If they didn't, they return the bought card to the supply. At the start of your next turn: Gain a Silver to your hand.

Converting Copper to Curse or Silver to Estate is a pretty hard attack, but getting a Silver to your hand in your next turn is just overpowered for a $3 card. There is a reason why Merchant Ship costs $5. It is like playing two Peddlers at the start of your next turn. But at least you can exchange your gained Silvers for Charlatans later. But remember: Bureaucrat costs $4, has a weaker attack and only topdecks the Silver.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 04:08:18 pm by King Leon »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3066 on: August 06, 2019, 05:13:24 pm »
0

Source gets a new wording to get rid of the Coin tokens.

At the start of each of your turns, you may turn this card by 90° clockwise for +$1, +1 Action, or +1 Buy. If this is upright after rotation, discard this.

(Remark: If this is in the discard pile, the “you may turn this by 90° for ...” will obviously lose track, so I don't need an “if this is still in play”.)

Your remark doesn't hold true, because lose track doesn't prevent someone from turning a card, or from getting benefits from it. It only prevents a card from being moved.

I think you can just go with "at the start of each of your next four turns..." wording similar to Archive. It will be slightly weaker because you can't choose to hold the effect for a later turn; but that will rarely matter because it's almost always the right move to use it asap. Then you also don't need the "discard this" clause because it will just be normally discarded in the cleanup of the 4th turn.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 05:42:50 pm by GendoIkari »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3067 on: August 06, 2019, 06:24:39 pm »
0

My submission for this week:

Quote
Mine Worker ($5, Action-Duration-Reaction)

Now and at the start of your next turn: you may trash a Victory Card from your hand, to gain a card costing up to $3 more than it. If you don't, you may discard your hand for +5 Cards.
-
Before resolving the effect of a Duration at the start of your turn, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, the duration will stay in play and effect will occur the start of your next turn as opposed to this turn.
-
In games using this, when you start a turn with 3 or more Durations in play, you may gain a Duchy or 3 Estates.


Way too much text, and it ultimately seems very similar to Rebuild (and about as fun).

Source gets a new wording to get rid of the Coin tokens.

At the start of each of your turns, you may turn this card by 90° clockwise for +$1, +1 Action, or +1 Buy. If this is upright after rotation, discard this.

(Remark: If this is in the discard pile, the “you may turn this by 90° for ...” will obviously lose track, so I don't need an “if this is still in play”.)

Your remark doesn't hold true, because lose track doesn't prevent someone from turning a card, or from getting benefits from it. It only prevents a card from being moved.

I think you can just go with "at the start of each of your next four turns..." wording similar to Archive. It will be slightly weaker because you can't choose to hold the effect for a later turn; but that will rarely matter because it's almost always the right move to use it asap. Then you also don't need the "discard this" clause because it will just be normally discarded in the cleanup of the 4th turn.

"At the start of each of your next four turns" is going to be horrific to track on its own. The rotating thing seems okay, though it reminds me a bit too much of Pokemon :P
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 06:27:44 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3068 on: August 06, 2019, 08:36:44 pm »
0



This should just be orange, not orange and white.

It is also almost strictly better than Merchant Ship.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3069 on: August 06, 2019, 08:47:14 pm »
+2



Quote
Charlatan
$3 - Action/Duration/Attack

+1 Buy
Until your next turn, when another player buys a card, they choose a card they have in play and exchange it for a card costing at most the same as the chosen card with a different type. If they didn't, they return the bought card to the supply. At the start of your next turn: Gain a Silver to your hand.

I'm not sure "with a different type" is unambiguous in this context. I assume you can exchange a Chapel for a Moat, since Moat has a type which Chapel does not. But can I exchange a Moat for a Chapel, since Moat has a type which Chapel does not? If so, can I also exchange Moat for Moat, since Moat has a type that is different from one of Moat's types?

I think "with a different type" could be interpreted as any of the following:
1. B has a type which A does not have (I can exchange Chapel for Moat, but not vice versa)
2. A and B have mutually exclusive sets of types (I cannot exchange Moat for Chapel or vice versa)
3. A and B do not have exactly the same set of types (I can exchange Moat for Chapel and vice versa)
4. There exist different types x, y, such that A has type x and B has type y (I can exchange Moat for Moat)
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3070 on: August 07, 2019, 12:19:59 am »
+7

CHALLENGE #39 - DURATION CARD

Well, most people play Dominion for big engine play, and this is certainly not that. Variety is what keeps Dominion interesting though and this takes on some stuff not seen with the official Dominion cards. Namely, dragging out the time in between shuffles. This may not sound fun, but for me at least it kind of is. Beyond that there is a lot of room here to outplay your opponents other than just gaining more cards than them.



And yes I realize promos should not use physical items introduced in other sets, but (1) anything can be used as debt tokens (I for instance use new, US pennies) and (2) this isn't really a promo challenge, just a duration challenge that should touch on new mechanics.

Thanks for looking! 8)

Quote from: Kudasai
Wonder
Types: Night - Duration
Cost: 8 Debt
At the start of each of your turns, if this is in play, add 2VP to this. When you shuffle, trash this and take the VP.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is gained to your hand.
(This stays in play until you shuffle and the VP on this is not yours until then.)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 06:07:47 pm by Kudasai »
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3071 on: August 07, 2019, 04:21:26 am »
0

CHALLENGE #39 - DURATION CARD

Well, most people play Dominion for big engine play, and this is certainly not that. Variety is what keeps Dominion interesting though and this takes on some stuff not seen with the official Dominion cards. Namely, dragging out the time in between shuffles. This may not sound fun, but for me at least it kind of is. Beyond that there is a lot of room here to outplay your opponents other than just gaining more cards than them.



And yes I realize promos should not use physical items introduced in other sets, but (1) anything can be used as debt tokens (I for instance use new pennies) and (2) this isn't really a promo challenge, just a duration challenge that should touch on new mechanics.

Thanks for looking! 8)

I like this but since its a victory chit card, it should probably have a sort of wind-down mechanism in it (ie, when you add +2VP, trash the top two cards of your deck, so that you have to buy cards to keep it viable and it runs out the supply that way) other than self-trashing.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3072 on: August 07, 2019, 06:05:17 am »
+2

I like this but since its a victory chit card, it should probably have a sort of wind-down mechanism in it (ie, when you add +2VP, trash the top two cards of your deck, so that you have to buy cards to keep it viable and it runs out the supply that way) other than self-trashing.
I mean, it trashes itself, and there are combos that allow you to keep this out for a long time, but all of them I can think of also deplete piles (Mandarin, or stuff with Armory or Watchtower).
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3073 on: August 07, 2019, 09:56:33 am »
0

"At the start of each of your next four turns" is going to be horrific to track on its own. The rotating thing seems okay, though it reminds me a bit too much of Pokemon :P

I meant for it to still keep the rotating part also; so the rotating automatically acts as the 4 turn tracker.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #3074 on: August 07, 2019, 10:01:49 am »
+1



This should just be orange, not orange and white.

It is also almost strictly better than Merchant Ship.

I'm not seeing that at all....

 - This does nothing at all the turn you play it; which really hurts your current turn.
 - "Gain a silver to your hand" is neither better nor worse than +; it depends on the state of the game and your deck. Very often you'd rather have the +.
 - If you don't keep feeding it, this is trashed and you gain a Curse.

I don't know if it would be stronger or weaker than Merchant Ship, especially considering it's instead of ; but it definitely isn't close to strictly better.
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