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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1546381 times)

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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2850 on: July 22, 2019, 09:14:25 am »
0

So I made a coupla things and wanna chat pros + cons for each

Gambler
Revision A - ezmode slots
...
Revision C - hard mode slots


imgur ate revision b but it's fine, it wasn't that different than this one
  • Usually just a terminal silver with some pretty mediocre cycling
  • With Lucky coin, gravitates towards being a high $ card
  • probably underpriced when there's any thinning to tamp down the noise in the deck
Revision D - blackjack woodcutter

  • con: math. and setting up a deck to get to $7 (altho this being $4 + free silvers from LC being $3 helps)
  • pro: better cycling even on misses
  • pro: always at least a woodcutter and/or chancellor
  • probably the quickest of the lot to play
Revision F - roulette upgrade

What happened to revision E? it looked too much like "revision C" at everything but max resolution.

  • pro: probably most useful - remodel those Curses directly into Provinces!
  • con: turns will take forever
  • con: clumsy wording - help? maybe add coin tokens to the card and then it's sort of Butcheresque?
  • pro: Lucky Coin gives you trashing fodder so you don't have to start from $0 with a Copper every time
  • con: only limit to guesses is number of cards in deck - probably shouldn't allow for a Curse -> Colony upgrade

My entry is revision D but talk through these with me, change my mind.

A - I think this is way too wonky to be viable. With Lucky Coin this will mostly hit Treasures giving a meager +1 Buy and +$1 and that's if it procs at all.

C - The ability to play this until your deck runs out is really interesting, but could lead to swingy games. Could function as a way to set aside Victory cards, but then Gamblers become dead cards since you don't want to play them and put your green back into your deck. Would be quite hard to do, but powerful enough that it could be worth trying. Also, I don't think you need to specify that set aside cards are not in play.

@ C : I mean, you can't do the set-aside trick - the Gambler either plays itself again (moving every revealed card to a temporary "we've done this one already" pile) or discards everything in the "we've done this one already" pile. I don't think there's any cards that can interrupt this loop. You absolutely could abuse the lucky coin's silver / buy excessive coppers / thin everything else out so it always hits a bunch on treasure but yeah, too swingy really.

D - Another interesting one. Really makes use of Lucky Coin's Silver gaining and the price of $4. Another one that could be swingy. The gambling aspect of drawing one or two cards seems fun.

F - This needs some text to address what happens to the revealed a card. Currently you reveal it and put it back, setting you up to perfectly name it the next time. If you can name it correctly the first time you can name it correctly 1,000,000 times if you wished! Even with that fixed, not having a cap on this could make it swingy. (Sorry I keep using that critique!)
@F: There's text - the last line - that says to discard all cards revealed by this card. Again, I don't think you can interrupt the loop on this card. Could probably move that up to the end of Ά2 with an "Otherwise" clause, make that less confusing.
 

Overall, some very interesting ideas. I think version D utilizes Lucky Coin the best and has some cool gameplay mechanics. I just recommend toning down the successful proc reward.

you think so? I think $5 is kind of a reasonable payout - $3 definitely isn't worth it, $4 is a "maybe" to my lizard brain but $5 gets peoples attention and gets them thinking "how can I set this up?" without being "the only game in town".

(also what is proc?)
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2851 on: July 22, 2019, 12:39:35 pm »
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My submission:



Is activating the Magic Lamp too hard? Make it smaller! Shrunken Lamp is much easier to activate, but yields a smaller amount of Wishes. In addition to that, downsizing your Lamp takes an entire buy that cannot be done when you hit $2 in a 5/2 opening.

Not necessary, but perhaps you'd want to consider making trashing the lamp for wishes optional, in case you want to try for the full 3 wishes in a future turn.

The idea is that a shrunken lamp loses the ability to provide 3 Wishes. If you do want to get 3 Wishes out of your lamp, just don't buy this Project.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2852 on: July 22, 2019, 12:53:50 pm »
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My submission:



Is activating the Magic Lamp too hard? Make it smaller! Shrunken Lamp is much easier to activate, but yields a smaller amount of Wishes. In addition to that, downsizing your Lamp takes an entire buy that cannot be done when you hit $2 in a 5/2 opening.

Not necessary, but perhaps you'd want to consider making trashing the lamp for wishes optional, in case you want to try for the full 3 wishes in a future turn.

The idea is that a shrunken lamp loses the ability to provide 3 Wishes. If you do want to get 3 Wishes out of your lamp, just don't buy this Project.

Yeah and even if the card allowed it; it seems like it would always be a terrible idea strategically to purchase Shrunken Lamp in any situation where you think you might activate it for the full 3 Wishes... you've thrown away a buy and the money for nothing.

It feels a little weird to have a project that only does something once; Projects generally have an ongoing benefit (discarding weird edge cases where you could get 2 Magic Lamps).
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2853 on: July 22, 2019, 03:19:06 pm »
+1

wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Well, Wedding will eventually run out the golds, which does lead toward the end of the game.

True. But it could continue to be bought after the golds run out and still give points. So it's not contingent on gaining cards, that's why I included it in the exceptions.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2854 on: July 22, 2019, 03:37:39 pm »
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wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Well, Wedding will eventually run out the golds, which does lead toward the end of the game.

True. But it could continue to be bought after the golds run out and still give points. So it's not contingent on gaining cards, that's why I included it in the exceptions.

You are right good sir
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2855 on: July 22, 2019, 03:40:46 pm »
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wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Well, Wedding will eventually run out the golds, which does lead toward the end of the game.

True. But it could continue to be bought after the golds run out and still give points. So it's not contingent on gaining cards, that's why I included it in the exceptions.

For Monument, simply giving you + is considered enough to "lead toward the end of the game", because it gives you money to buy stuff. I think Wedding giving you Golds counts the same; it's not that it can run out the Gold pile; it's that it puts in your deck which lets you eventually buy Provinces.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2856 on: July 22, 2019, 04:22:55 pm »
+1

Drawbridge
Night/Duration - $3
From your deck, set aside (face down) a card, plus an additional card for each unused Buy you have. At the start of your next turn, put the set aside cards in your hand.
-
This is gained to your hand instead of your discard pile
Heirloom: Pouch

i like the interplay between "leave buys on the table this turn for a bigger turn next turn" but if you run like...the Market pile with this in your deck, you could have every turn be a Tactician.

Plus, consider like, using multiples of them - you leave two buys on the table and get... 4? 6? 8?! cards on your next turn.

Also you may want to revise the wording on the "From your deck, set aside (face down) a card" lead-in to "... (face down) the top card,..." so it's less ambiguous as to whether you could go through and pull out all the Stashes from your deck.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2857 on: July 22, 2019, 05:26:30 pm »
+1

Drawbridge
Night/Duration - $3
From your deck, set aside (face down) a card, plus an additional card for each unused Buy you have. At the start of your next turn, put the set aside cards in your hand.
-
This is gained to your hand instead of your discard pile
Heirloom: Pouch

i like the interplay between "leave buys on the table this turn for a bigger turn next turn" but if you run like...the Market pile with this in your deck, you could have every turn be a Tactician.

Plus, consider like, using multiples of them - you leave two buys on the table and get... 4? 6? 8?! cards on your next turn.

Also you may want to revise the wording on the "From your deck, set aside (face down) a card" lead-in to "... (face down) the top card,..." so it's less ambiguous as to whether you could go through and pull out all the Stashes from your deck.

There are limits to how much you can draw as they have to be set aside at the end of the turn, so you can't reliably draw your deck every turn with Drawbridges. You also can't set aside Drawbridges that will be cleaned up this turn with other Drawbridges.

It's more a card that can be set up around for a megaturn or just one good hand than I put in the free card (even if you have zero buys) so it wouldn't be junk on the turns when it isn't set up well.

It will combo incredibly well with some cards, similar to Rats. The best it can possibly do however is drawing your deck - a great outcome but compared to Bridge (instantly winning the game) or Merchant Guild (setting you up for the rest of the game), it's modest.

I also wanted it to be a relevant consideration on boards where the only +buy you get is the Pouch, including working with Workshop variants. On turns you get the Pouch, it is an Expedition that will occasionally deliver for you later on (in fact I'm going to bump the cost up to $4 just so it isn't strictly better than Expedition.)

The "from your deck" wording is straight from Research (just moved around a bit).

« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 05:36:00 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2858 on: July 22, 2019, 06:30:13 pm »
0

CHALLENGE #37 - CREATE A CARD WITH AN EXISTING HEIRLOOM - SUBMISSION

I did a lot of baseline testing for this years ago and it really can put out a lot of VP on the right board, but the amount of kingdoms that worked well with it was limited. The big issue is you end up not playing most of your Coppers to ensure your Action/Treasure amounts are equal. This makes for some fun but tough game play decisions. Do you play out all your Treasure to maximize your coin, or take the extra VP? Ultimately it was a lot of fun and seemed balanced, but was not often useful enough.

Then it dawned on me that Lucky Coin might be a great fix! Silver flooding greatly increases your options for getting a good baseline, mix of coin and VP during your turns. Smart and thoughtful play should still prevail though.



Feels a bit too strong. Since it's not an action or treasure, you can play any number of these (which is easy since it's non-terminal). Not too hard to have your actions and treasure and actions balanced since you could always hold back a treasure if necessary . With a well built engine, it wouldn't be crazy to get 6 actions and 6 treasures (in some cases even more) and then play 4 of these for 24 points. This could easily allow for endless games, since victory cards are going to slow down your ability to get more points per turn, and it might not be worth it buy more actions or treasures if your deck can't afford them to keep your point engine going.

All the cards that give point tokens push the game to finish by either making you gain cards, or making you trash cards, which puts a cap on how long it can go on for. The only exceptions are monument, which is terminal and only gives a single point which makes it hard (though not impossible) to win only on monument, chariot race, which doesn't always give you points, plunder, of which there only 5 of which are available late in the game (and can be covered by encampment) and again only give 1 point (and since it's a treasure can't be TR of KC), and wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Could be. If I can recall all my baseline testing from years ago, Liminal Arch averaged about 7-8VP with (1) cards that enable Action/Treasure balance and (2) early Liminal Arch purchases. This may seem strong, but a lot of things have to align to get these numbers and you have to build your deck in a way that is very susceptible to duding.

Simply not playing all of your Treasures is the easiest way to get your Action/Treasure balance, but you're generally harming your hand to achieve this. Players who can both play all of their cards in hand and get the A/T balance should prevail. Other than that, getting a proper A/T balance is quite hard and is probaby a lot harder to achieve than people think. Most decks are mostly Actions. If Treasures are needed for payload they are usually inttoduced late game.

As for leading towards an end game, Liminal Arch requires you to buy Actions and Treasures to work. Generally a lot of them to get good VP amounts. Particularly cantrips and such kind of cards that your deck can handle a lot of. I.e. card piles that can easily empty and lead to a game's end.

These are my conclusions from about 10-20 baseline tests. All it takes though is for one actual game to prove this all wrong. ;)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 10:25:12 pm by Kudasai »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2859 on: July 22, 2019, 06:34:13 pm »
+1

Quote from: spineflu
(also what is proc?)

Proc as in to make an occurance or event happen. In this case satisfying the condition to proc the +$3.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 10:34:20 pm by Kudasai »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2860 on: July 22, 2019, 09:22:38 pm »
0

Quote from: Kudasai
F - I read this you repeat the naming part for each correct guess. If this is the case, the loop continues before anything gets discarded, which would allow infinite correct guesses beyond the first correct guess.

Either way this needs some word changes. If the whole card repeats then you'd attempt the gain a card costing $1 after each loop.

Specifically and unfortunately I think this needs to be a big run-on sentence:

"Name a type (Action, Attack, etc.), then reveal the top card of your deck and if it has the named type, discard it and do this again."
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 11:40:05 pm by Kudasai »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2861 on: July 22, 2019, 09:42:56 pm »
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As for leading towards an end game, Liminal Arch requires you to buy Actions and Treasures to work. Generally a lot of them to get good VP amounts. Particularly cantrips and such kind of cards that your deck can handle a lot of. I.e. card piles that can easily empty and lead to a game's end.

Yes, the best idea would be to buy more cantrips (and treasures to balance the cantrips), but there might not always be cantrips to buy. Suppose you have 5 alchemists, a potion, 4 coppers, and 5 LA's. If there are no more non terminals in the supply, your best move would be to forego buying any more cards so as not to upset your balance. You would be able to get 25vp a turn, guaranteed. This is an extreme case, but in general, if there's only terminals, you might just want to stop buying cards and milk you LA's for vp.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2862 on: July 22, 2019, 09:53:07 pm »
+1

wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Well, Wedding will eventually run out the golds, which does lead toward the end of the game.

True. But it could continue to be bought after the golds run out and still give points. So it's not contingent on gaining cards, that's why I included it in the exceptions.

For Monument, simply giving you + is considered enough to "lead toward the end of the game", because it gives you money to buy stuff. I think Wedding giving you Golds counts the same; it's not that it can run out the Gold pile; it's that it puts in your deck which lets you eventually buy Provinces.

Buying stuff is optional. It's not just the money that's the important part (though it does slightly push you toward game end). It's the low point gain for a non terminal. If monument gave 5vp and +$2, this would easily lead to a stalemate where each player is trying to play as many monuments as possible each turn. If they split these monuments 5-5, then adding card to their deck can just make it harder to play 5 monuments a turn.

As an aside, I did a play a game where I abused monuments for insane vp. I was playing double tactician with a deck of only 10 cards (not including tactician in play); 3 kc, 5 monuments, tactician and steward.
kc-kc-kc-m-m-m-m-m-t (discard steward) for 15 vp each turn. I bought and trashed the other monuments to make sure my opponent couldn't copy me, but if he had bought them before me, it could have gone on forever. Notice that here monument essentially gave 3vp and the fact that it was terminal didn't matter as much since there was a kc chain. The only reason I ended up buying cards was to finish the game.
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2863 on: July 22, 2019, 10:32:42 pm »
0

As for leading towards an end game, Liminal Arch requires you to buy Actions and Treasures to work. Generally a lot of them to get good VP amounts. Particularly cantrips and such kind of cards that your deck can handle a lot of. I.e. card piles that can easily empty and lead to a game's end.

Yes, the best idea would be to buy more cantrips (and treasures to balance the cantrips), but there might not always be cantrips to buy. Suppose you have 5 alchemists, a potion, 4 coppers, and 5 LA's. If there are no more non terminals in the supply, your best move would be to forego buying any more cards so as not to upset your balance. You would be able to get 25vp a turn, guaranteed. This is an extreme case, but in general, if there's only terminals, you might just want to stop buying cards and milk you LA's for vp.

This is indeed an extreme case, which would take time to setup. My hope is that another player could end the game before this gets moving. Will that actually happen? Unsure. Should edge cases like this be considered for balancing purposes? Also unsure.

But I guess your real point is when both players go for this it makes a never ending game. I wonder if anything can be learned from Fairgrounds/Black Market games. Those can go on forever and sure do get old. I certainly don't want that for Liminal Arch.

[Add] Do you think the addition of Lucky Coin does anything to progress the game?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 11:38:06 pm by Kudasai »
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2864 on: July 23, 2019, 01:53:20 am »
+1

In regards to the current discussion, I wonder how it would be if you made it more powerful, but a one-shot. Like, 2 or 3 VP per pair and trash it. Then you can’t have endless gains and it becomes more of a niche card, but it would have the same idea.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2865 on: July 23, 2019, 09:07:44 am »
0

Quote from: Kudasai
F - I read this you repeat the naming part for each correct guess. If this is the case, the loop continues before anything gets discarded, which would allow infinite correct guesses beyond the first correct guess.

Either way this needs some word changes. If the whole card repeats then you'd attempt the gain a card costing $1 after each loop.

Specifically and unfortunately I think this needs to be a big run-on sentence:

"Name a type (Action, Attack, etc.), then reveal the top card of your deck and if it has the named type, discard it and do this again."

Discarding it at that point would let you do the loop indefinitely because you'd reshuffle when you hit deck's end.

Maybe like:
Trash a card from your hand.
Name a card type (Action, Treasure, etc) and reveal the top card of your deck. If the revealed card is the named type, set the revealed card aside and do this again (you can do this any number of times, provided you keep guessing correctly with card types). If the revealed card is not the named type, or you cannot reveal a card from your deck, discard all cards revealed and/or set aside by this card.
Gain a card costing up to $1 per correct guess more than the card you trashed.

Still a mouthful but kinda moot since its not the card i'm entering.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2866 on: July 23, 2019, 11:12:33 am »
+1

Night Worker
Type: Night
Cost: $5
Heirloom: Pouch

For each card you have gained this turn, if it is...
an Action card, +1 Villager
a Treasure card, +1 Coffers
a Victory card, +1 VP
———————————————————————————
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile).


The hand-gaining is a bit gimmicky, I felt that the card was too good for $4 and needed a slight buff for $5.
Pouch is obviously there to ensure that you can always gain 2 cards per turn, even in Kingdoms without gainers or extra Buys.

The last option might at first look too similar to Groundskeeper. But as this doesn't draw, it is far less spammable than Groundskeeper. I also don't know whether it will play too similar to Academy/Guildhall but hope that the difference between a Project and a card does suffice.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 11:25:10 am by segura »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2867 on: July 23, 2019, 11:15:55 am »
0

Quote from: Kudasai
F - I read this you repeat the naming part for each correct guess. If this is the case, the loop continues before anything gets discarded, which would allow infinite correct guesses beyond the first correct guess.

Either way this needs some word changes. If the whole card repeats then you'd attempt the gain a card costing $1 after each loop.

Specifically and unfortunately I think this needs to be a big run-on sentence:

"Name a type (Action, Attack, etc.), then reveal the top card of your deck and if it has the named type, discard it and do this again."

Discarding it at that point would let you do the loop indefinitely because you'd reshuffle when you hit deck's end.

Maybe like:
Trash a card from your hand.
Name a card type (Action, Treasure, etc) and reveal the top card of your deck. If the revealed card is the named type, set the revealed card aside and do this again (you can do this any number of times, provided you keep guessing correctly with card types). If the revealed card is not the named type, or you cannot reveal a card from your deck, discard all cards revealed and/or set aside by this card.
Gain a card costing up to $1 per correct guess more than the card you trashed.

Still a mouthful but kinda moot since its not the card i'm entering.

This certainly stops potential infinite loops, but I didn't have much of an issue with that. My concern was that after each correct guess the card would go back on top of your deck. It simply revealed the card, but didn't discard it (much like Mystic). After the first correct guess, players could then always know what the top card was and thus could continue to correctly guess the type. Coupled with gaining a card per correct guess meant a player could really gain any card they wanted.

But yes, a moot point now. Very interesting card idea though. Would like to see it fleshed out more outside of the Design Contest.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2868 on: July 23, 2019, 11:29:17 am »
0

Quote
Meadow - $2 cost, choose two of +card, +action, gain meadow. When you trash this +3 Coffers. Heirloom: goat.
3 Coffers each trash feels like quite a lot of income from potentially a single investment of $2, and we know the problem of big Coffers accumulation from Renaissance. 2 Coffers maybe?
In my opinion the Coffers are not the problem of the card, it likely needs to yield 3 instead of 2 to be worthwhile. But the self-gaining plus the cantrip option likely do make the card too strong. You can imagine Peddler/Conspirator/Goldem Kingdoms where you play this a few times for self-gaining just in order to have a few cantrips in your deck.
I suggest to cut one, i.e. make this just a cantrip or self-gainer on play.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2869 on: July 23, 2019, 03:06:18 pm »
+2

Thank you for all your feedback. I decided to give Meadow a nerf.



Heirloom: Goat

You may gain a Meadow. If you didn’t: +1 Card +1 Action
-
When you trash this, +3 Coffers
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:10:23 pm by King Leon »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2870 on: July 23, 2019, 03:42:07 pm »
+3

For flavor, I wonder if it would be more thematic to have meadow be an animal, like Rabbit, due to the self-gaining trick?

Edit: I guess goats don’t eat rabbits though
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2871 on: July 23, 2019, 08:05:27 pm »
+4

For flavor, I wonder if it would be more thematic to have meadow be an animal, like Rabbit, due to the self-gaining trick?

Edit: I guess goats don’t eat rabbits though

The meadow grows and Goat mows.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2872 on: July 23, 2019, 11:00:23 pm »
0

Okay here is what I am going with. Changed it a bit so it allows any card to be sent to island mat.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2873 on: July 24, 2019, 09:28:00 pm »
+1

There wasn't any 24 hour warning. Just wanted to check, does the contest end tomorrow?
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2874 on: July 24, 2019, 11:40:10 pm »
0

I have an entry but I’ve been procrastinating making the card until I get a 24 hour warning, I hope we still get a 24 hour warning.
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