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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1547953 times)

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2825 on: July 20, 2019, 10:52:19 am »
0

Manor - $5 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is the first time you played a Manor this turn, trash a card from your hand.
---------------------
When you gain this, gain another Manor (that doesn't come with another).
Heirloom: Haunted Mirror.

Potential problem: Ghost does not play well with forced trashers. I think this is the reason it was paired with a trashing Victory card.
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math

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2826 on: July 20, 2019, 01:07:08 pm »
0

Manor - $5 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is the first time you played a Manor this turn, trash a card from your hand.
---------------------
When you gain this, gain another Manor (that doesn't come with another).
Heirloom: Haunted Mirror.

Potential problem: Ghost does not play well with forced trashers. I think this is the reason it was paired with a trashing Victory card.

Thank you for pointing that out.  It might not be a big deal since it would only trash once when played with Ghost, but I went ahead and made the trashing optional anyway - it doesn't change that much.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2827 on: July 20, 2019, 02:52:54 pm »
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I think this card would probably be better overall if you made the card more likely to have a better effect for the person playing it (if you don't want card drawing, you could do card sifting.), and perhaps strengthen it to make it cost 5 -- right now it's not convincing that the central mechanics of this card (gaining curses to hand and the tome) belong to a cheap curser.
I believe I disagree with this general design philosophy you are displaying (and throughout your judging post). It seems to me you are looking at cards that have problems baked into them and considering them poorly designed for that reason: I think cards that have inherent problems are the best designed cards because you have to look elsewhere in the Kingdom to solve them.
The least interesting cards in Dominion right now I believe primarily derive from trying to take an interesting idea (Masquerade's pass a card, Ambassador's give a card to other players, Possession's control another player's turn, Cultist's play-each-other thing, Rebuild's step-up Victory cards) and tacking so many effects onto them to make them work that they end up monopolizing the board in a boring fashion. The best cards are cards that result in big problems a priori of the Kingdom (Chapel's deck destruction at the cost of pacing, Highway's cost-reduction without the buys to help it, Library's powerful draw without the way to productively reduce hand-size, Remodel's powerful trashing that needs good targets, etc.). Two of the cards I chose as best in my judgment were Bookstore and Consul, each of which have big strategy problems without considering the Kingdom.
It is certainly possible for the problems to be too big to overcome reasonably (Contraband is an excellent example), but I do not agree that Chronicler's problem is too big. Cursers tend to need bigger problems because junking is so inherently powerful. That is fine if you don't agree, of course.

What's weird is I think we actually agree a lot more than it seems. When I read your sentence I wanted to explain what cards design I like and a ton of the examples you gave were the same examples I'd give. To me I also don't like when one card solves all of it's problems -- Margrave is a good example of a card with too much going for it. I like it when cards are about single topics such that they naturally effect themselves. On the flip side, Margrave's attack is well designed: it is not an attack the second time it's a benefit to the opponent, so that reacts with itself. That's what I mean by single-concept cards that naturally have synergy or anti-synergy with itself.

My opinion was that I really loved the concept of the tome and cursing and I think there's a separate concept of "cheap cursers" and I thought it would be better if you focused on one of those concepts. Of course, that's totally opinion. I still would really love to see what you did with Tome and curses to hand without the concept of "cheap curser" also.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2828 on: July 20, 2019, 03:03:13 pm »
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Meadow
Type: Action
Cost: $2
Heirloom: Goat

Choose two different:
+1 Card; +1 Action; or gain a Meadow.
-
When you trash this, +3 Coffers

To me this is a very powerful card. The ability to terminally always gain more copies of itself to feed to your goat is spectacular and strong. And they *never* Hurt your deck you can always turn them into a cantrip. I think it needs to be priced much higher and I would rethink the "never hurt your deck" aspect of these, because buying them gaining them becomes a non-brainer. You just wait until your goat lines up. It becomes a lot more of an interesting decision if they are terminal or at least not can-trippable. You could turn the top part to simply "you may gain a Meadow." Then each one you gain clogs your deck and is probably better priced at 2.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2829 on: July 20, 2019, 03:55:54 pm »
+1



Meadow
Type: Action
Cost: $2
Heirloom: Goat

Choose two different:
+1 Card; +1 Action; or gain a Meadow.
-
When you trash this, +3 Coffers

To me this is a very powerful card. The ability to terminally always gain more copies of itself to feed to your goat is spectacular and strong. And they *never* Hurt your deck you can always turn them into a cantrip. I think it needs to be priced much higher and I would rethink the "never hurt your deck" aspect of these, because buying them gaining them becomes a non-brainer. You just wait until your goat lines up. It becomes a lot more of an interesting decision if they are terminal or at least not can-trippable. You could turn the top part to simply "you may gain a Meadow." Then each one you gain clogs your deck and is probably better priced at 2.

Squire and Pawn were my inspiration for this card. Squire cannot be used as a cantrip (which may hurt your deck), but it also comes with +2 Buys, whereas Pawn can be used as a cantrip or "half" Woodcutter on demand. Meadow is not as powerful as it seems at the first glance. There are only three different options: Cantrip or non-terminal self-gaining or terminal self-gaining with +1 Card (very useful in big money or with stuff like Exorcist or Sauna).

Most trashers (including Goat) require to have Meadow it in your hand to trash it, which makes it much weaker (you could have a Silver instead, which can be gained by Squire, coincidentally). If this cost $3, it would be broken with trash-for-benefit cards like Salvager or Apprentice and useless without stronger trashers. The $2 also avoids trashing Meadow with Knights, Giant and Rogue. Rats cost $4, but may "hurt your deck", because their trashing is mandatory, which weakens their self-gaining effect. Magpie is a self-gaining cantrip and also "never hurts your deck", and is often better than a Peddler in a money-heavy deck. I tested this card and $2 seemed to be fine. Think about other $2 cards, which are powerful like Chapel, Fool’s Gold, Raze or Pixie (which also comes with Goat). There are only 10 Meadows and the pile is mowed very fast. I needed +3 Coffers instead of +$3, to be compatible with trashers like Farmlands or opponent’s Bishops. Having 2 Silvers usually has the same economical effect than Goat + Meadow, with the difference, that the Silver does not vanish or the same effect as Copper + Spoils to be more accurate.

However, your edge case does make me think of a different edge case... you trash a Band of Misfits, then player Lurker to gain it back. Then you draw some cards, making you shuffle. Then play a Band of Misfits as something. Play Modeller, choosing Band of Misfits. You now need to know what it cost. If it’s still somewhere in your deck, it cost $5. If it’s the one you played, it costs less.

So yeah, “name a card” could be a fix to that, because if you name Band of Misfits, that has a specific fixed cost in Dominion of $5; and that remains true even if there are no visible Band of Misfit cards to be found to check the price.

When BoM leaves play, it turns back into a BoM. So, if you trash it, it leaves play and costs $2. But you are right. If Modeller refers to an instance of a card and you shuffle your deck, it is not possible anymore to detect, which instance of BoM was the one you had trashed. Because BoM uses "This is that card until it leaves play." and not "gains the abilities and types of that card", this causes more problems.

I also realized that Summon does not work for Night cards. Sorry.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 04:20:54 pm by King Leon »
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2830 on: July 20, 2019, 04:17:34 pm »
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Collector can either add cheap cards to its collection or upgrade played cards into better cards. By allowing you to set aside cards you already have one copy of in play, it also makes activating its heirloom, Magic Lamp, easier.



Changelog:
v0.1 - initial



Secret History:

Inspired by Magic Lamp, I started with setting aside cards for which you already had a copy in play.  It was too weak that way, and also simpler to just let you set aside any card.

Any suggestions on how to improve Collector? I'm not especially happy with it.

The trashing only works on Actions (barring having played exceptions like BM, Storyteller, and Villa) which isn't great. Additionally the setting aside is meant to help activate Magic Lamp, but otherwise doesn't do anything; aside from Highway and other "while this is in play" cards, there's no reason not to set aside.

Some ideas, I had:
• delay the trashing to cleanup, so it could also work on treasures, but the wording seemed klunky
• also allow trash from hand
• for the setting aside issue, I could change when it "returns" to some other time. Its current wording is so duration cards could still work, but maybe I'll need to add non Duration
• also set aside Collector, so you have reason to choose which you set aside (and also allows subsequent Collectors to upgrade the previous one)
• do something other than trash for set aside cards (put on deck? play again?, etc)

« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:38:59 pm by scolapasta »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2831 on: July 20, 2019, 05:41:07 pm »
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Collector can either add cheap cards to its collection or upgrade played cards into better cards. By allowing you to set aside cards you already have one copy of in play, it also makes activating its heirloom, Magic Lamp, easier.



Changelog:
v0.1 - initial



Secret History:

Inspired by Magic Lamp, I started with setting aside cards for which you already had a copy in play.  It was too weak that way, and also simpler to just let you set aside any card.

Any suggestions on how to improve Collector? I'm not especially happy with it.

The trashing only works on Actions (barring having played exceptions like BM, Storyteller, and Villa) which isn't great. Additionally the setting aside is meant to help activate Magic Lamp, but otherwise doesn't do anything; aside from Highway and other "while this is in play" cards, there's no reason not to set aside.

Some ideas, I had:
• delay the trashing to cleanup, so it could also work on treasures, but the wording seemed klunky
• also allow trash from hand
• for the setting aside issue, I could change when it "returns" to some other time. Its current wording is so duration cards could still work, but maybe I'll need to add non Duration
• also set aside Collector, so you have reason to choose which you set aside
• do something other than trash for set aside cards (put on deck? play again?, etc)

I'd take a look at the wording for "Improve". I think you can clean a lot of this up if you follow its text. On that note, these two cards are doing a lot of the same stuff.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2832 on: July 20, 2019, 07:26:40 pm »
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Drawbridge
Night/Duration - $4
From the top of your deck, set-aside (face down) a card, plus another card per unused Buy. At the start of your next turn, put the set-aside cards into your hand.
-
This is gained to your hand (instead of your discard pile).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 05:43:11 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2833 on: July 20, 2019, 11:45:24 pm »
+1

I just had an idea. Could we set up a post, or something else, where everyone can add a link to their submission? This would make judging a lot easier. If you want to change your submission, you replace the previous link with a new one, which avoids a lot of confusion.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2834 on: July 21, 2019, 06:06:21 am »
+1

My submission:



Is activating the Magic Lamp too hard? Make it smaller! Shrunken Lamp is much easier to activate, but yields a smaller amount of Wishes. In addition to that, downsizing your Lamp takes an entire buy that cannot be done when you hit $2 in a 5/2 opening.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 07:06:16 am by grrgrrgrr »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2835 on: July 21, 2019, 09:51:29 am »
0

I just had an idea. Could we set up a post, or something else, where everyone can add a link to their submission? This would make judging a lot easier. If you want to change your submission, you replace the previous link with a new one, which avoids a lot of confusion.

I once mentioned that. We need some kind of database like this one for Agricola cards: http://playagricola.com/Agricola/Cards/index.php This would make it a lot easier to judge fan cards.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2836 on: July 21, 2019, 02:01:55 pm »
+1

I just had an idea. Could we set up a post, or something else, where everyone can add a link to their submission? This would make judging a lot easier. If you want to change your submission, you replace the previous link with a new one, which avoids a lot of confusion.

I once mentioned that. We need some kind of database like this one for Agricola cards: http://playagricola.com/Agricola/Cards/index.php This would make it a lot easier to judge fan cards.

Is it possible to make a post that anyone can edit? If not we would need something like a Google Doc.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2837 on: July 21, 2019, 04:12:11 pm »
0

Maybe a Trello board would be an idea.
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Kudasai

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Re: Contest #37: Use existing Heirloom
« Reply #2838 on: July 21, 2019, 04:23:13 pm »
0



Could be quite fun trying to get your pastures top-decked. Compares quite well to Crop Rotation. Maybe too well given starting decks will have 4 Victory cards and this is $5 versus $6. I personally think it might be too good.
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King Leon

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« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 04:34:45 pm by King Leon »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2840 on: July 21, 2019, 05:26:03 pm »
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So I made a coupla things and wanna chat pros + cons for each

Gambler
Revision A - ezmode slots

Pros:
  • pays out nearly every time - still a miss if you hit on like. durations that are mixed action-durations and night-durations
  • can do a lot of roles, although none reliably
  • gravitates towards +$1 +1 Buy due to Lucky Coin
  • probably a better buy elsewhere

Revision C - hard mode slots


imgur ate revision b but it's fine, it wasn't that different than this one
  • Usually just a terminal silver with some pretty mediocre cycling
  • With Lucky coin, gravitates towards being a high $ card
  • probably underpriced when there's any thinning to tamp down the noise in the deck
Revision D - blackjack woodcutter

  • con: math. and setting up a deck to get to $7 (altho this being $4 + free silvers from LC being $3 helps)
  • pro: better cycling even on misses
  • pro: always at least a woodcutter and/or chancellor
  • probably the quickest of the lot to play
Revision F - roulette upgrade

What happened to revision E? it looked too much like "revision C" at everything but max resolution.

  • pro: probably most useful - remodel those Curses directly into Provinces!
  • con: turns will take forever
  • con: clumsy wording - help? maybe add coin tokens to the card and then it's sort of Butcheresque?
  • pro: Lucky Coin gives you trashing fodder so you don't have to start from $0 with a Copper every time
  • con: only limit to guesses is number of cards in deck - probably shouldn't allow for a Curse -> Colony upgrade

My entry is revision D but talk through these with me, change my mind.

A - I think this is way too wonky to be viable. With Lucky Coin this will mostly hit Treasures giving a meager +1 Buy and +$1 and that's if it procs at all.

C - The ability to play this until your deck runs out is really interesting, but could lead to swingy games. Could function as a way to set aside Victory cards, but then Gamblers become dead cards since you don't want to play them and put your green back into your deck. Would be quite hard to do, but powerful enough that it could be worth trying. Also, I don't think you need to specify that set aside cards are not in play.

D - Another interesting one. Really makes use of Lucky Coin's Silver gaining and the price of $4. Another one that could be swingy. The gambling aspect of drawing one or two cards seems fun.

F - This needs some text to address what happens to the revealed a card. Currently you reveal it and put it back, setting you up to perfectly name it the next time. If you can name it correctly the first time you can name it correctly 1,000,000 times if you wished! Even with that fixed, not having a cap on this could make it swingy. (Sorry I keep using that critique!)

Overall, some very interesting ideas. I think version D utilizes Lucky Coin the best and has some cool gameplay mechanics. I just recommend toning down the successful proc reward.
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2841 on: July 21, 2019, 05:40:20 pm »
0

CHALLENGE #37 - CREATE A CARD WITH AN EXISTING HEIRLOOM - SUBMISSION

I did a lot of baseline testing for this years ago and it really can put out a lot of VP on the right board, but the amount of kingdoms that worked well with it was limited. The big issue is you end up not playing most of your Coppers to ensure your Action/Treasure amounts are equal. This makes for some fun but tough game play decisions. Do you play out all your Treasure to maximize your coin, or take the extra VP? Ultimately it was a lot of fun and seemed balanced, but was not often useful enough.

Then it dawned on me that Lucky Coin might be a great fix! Silver flooding greatly increases your options for getting a good baseline, mix of coin and VP during your turns. Smart and thoughtful play should still prevail though.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 05:41:23 pm by Kudasai »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2842 on: July 21, 2019, 05:51:31 pm »
+1

I have now added all cards for Challenge #37 to the Trello board. Everybody may add, modify and comment cards.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2843 on: July 21, 2019, 08:11:15 pm »
0



Meadow
Type: Action
Cost: $2
Heirloom: Goat

Choose two different:
+1 Card; +1 Action; or gain a Meadow.
-
When you trash this, +3 Coffers

To me this is a very powerful card. The ability to terminally always gain more copies of itself to feed to your goat is spectacular and strong. And they *never* Hurt your deck you can always turn them into a cantrip. I think it needs to be priced much higher and I would rethink the "never hurt your deck" aspect of these, because buying them gaining them becomes a non-brainer. You just wait until your goat lines up. It becomes a lot more of an interesting decision if they are terminal or at least not can-trippable. You could turn the top part to simply "you may gain a Meadow." Then each one you gain clogs your deck and is probably better priced at 2.

I think you're overestimating the value. There are only 10 of these. To get one, you have to use a buy and $2, or use up an action (play meadow for +1 card, gain a meadow), or use up a card (play meadow for +1 action, gain a meadow). You then have to trash it, which means another waste of a card space. All this for 3 coffers. Not so crazy. Besides, since you only need to buy one, making it cost more would actually make it more powerful with TfB.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2844 on: July 21, 2019, 08:15:07 pm »
0

My submission:



Is activating the Magic Lamp too hard? Make it smaller! Shrunken Lamp is much easier to activate, but yields a smaller amount of Wishes. In addition to that, downsizing your Lamp takes an entire buy that cannot be done when you hit $2 in a 5/2 opening.

Not necessary, but perhaps you'd want to consider making trashing the lamp for wishes optional, in case you want to try for the full 3 wishes in a future turn.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2845 on: July 21, 2019, 08:29:08 pm »
+1

CHALLENGE #37 - CREATE A CARD WITH AN EXISTING HEIRLOOM - SUBMISSION

I did a lot of baseline testing for this years ago and it really can put out a lot of VP on the right board, but the amount of kingdoms that worked well with it was limited. The big issue is you end up not playing most of your Coppers to ensure your Action/Treasure amounts are equal. This makes for some fun but tough game play decisions. Do you play out all your Treasure to maximize your coin, or take the extra VP? Ultimately it was a lot of fun and seemed balanced, but was not often useful enough.

Then it dawned on me that Lucky Coin might be a great fix! Silver flooding greatly increases your options for getting a good baseline, mix of coin and VP during your turns. Smart and thoughtful play should still prevail though.



Feels a bit too strong. Since it's not an action or treasure, you can play any number of these (which is easy since it's non-terminal). Not too hard to have your actions and treasure and actions balanced since you could always hold back a treasure if necessary . With a well built engine, it wouldn't be crazy to get 6 actions and 6 treasures (in some cases even more) and then play 4 of these for 24 points. This could easily allow for endless games, since victory cards are going to slow down your ability to get more points per turn, and it might not be worth it buy more actions or treasures if your deck can't afford them to keep your point engine going.

All the cards that give point tokens push the game to finish by either making you gain cards, or making you trash cards, which puts a cap on how long it can go on for. The only exceptions are monument, which is terminal and only gives a single point which makes it hard (though not impossible) to win only on monument, chariot race, which doesn't always give you points, plunder, of which there only 5 of which are available late in the game (and can be covered by encampment) and again only give 1 point (and since it's a treasure can't be TR of KC), and wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2846 on: July 21, 2019, 10:30:16 pm »
0

I have a general idea of what I want so I made 2 versions to see what people say.
1.   2.

Notes on the general idea:
This is supposed to be similar to island (if it wasn't obvious). Unlike Island it can be used multiple times, since it doesn't have to put itself on the island mat. To balance that strength, it can only be used on victory cards. It's important to keep in mind that there aren't so many ways to get victory cards out of your deck, while still retaining their vp; it's a pretty useful ability. Most of the cases that exist are relatively limited (island can only be used once, distant lands can only be used on itself, native village can do it but it's not so easy).
The heirloom is pasture. This means there's an extra victory card to use tropical island on. In addition, it makes it more worthwhile to island your estates, since each one is worth 2vp rather than 1vp.

Notes on version 1:
In my opinion, this is the stronger of the two. I think it might be a bit too strong. The +2 cards synergizes with it's other ability since you have a greater chance to have a victory card to tuck away. It also can work well in BM (which can choke on Victory cards) as well as engines (giving you draw plus pseudo trashing).

Notes on version 2:
This is relatively close to island; it gives 2vp, and allows you to island cards or itself. Unlike island you can only put away victory cards, but you don't have to put tropical island on the island mat, allowing you to use it over and over again without having to buy more islands. However, like island, you can put it on the island mat if you no longer want it in your deck. I'm thinking about removing the victory card requirement and allowing you to just island any card.

Thoughts?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2847 on: July 22, 2019, 02:31:40 am »
0



So I realized that the top of Kelpie is worse than Market Square, so I decided to make it a little better. Also, the bottom now has the correct wording to avoid multiple reveals.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2848 on: July 22, 2019, 02:34:20 am »
0

wedding, which costs too much to just use it for points.

Well, Wedding will eventually run out the golds, which does lead toward the end of the game.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2849 on: July 22, 2019, 08:12:37 am »
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Quote
Friar
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Trash a card from your hand. If it costs at least $3, gain a Duchy and an Estate. Otherwise, gain 2 Estates.
Heirloom: Pasture

Shepherd makes the Estate split matter with its Pasture buffing the VP of Estates while simultaneously providing a strong source of sifting and draw, but it doesn't offer a way to acquire said Estates.
Friar similarly gives Pasture, making the Estates possibly important, but provides no way to deal with the bloat of Estates, instead offering a way to gain them. This speed of gaining Estates might make gaining Friars too late a problem, but you can still get Duchies, at least.
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Dominion: Avarice 1.1a, my fan expansion with "in-games-using-this" cards and Edicts (updated Oct 18, 2021)
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