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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 82081 times)

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Gubump

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Re: Contest #37: Use existing Heirloom
« Reply #2800 on: July 18, 2019, 10:19:16 pm »
0



EDIT: Changed my submission.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 12:02:29 pm by Gubump »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2801 on: July 18, 2019, 10:41:26 pm »
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This is way too strong. Even if it was terminal, it would still compare favorably to Witch.

Even taking Goat into account?
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2802 on: July 18, 2019, 11:02:36 pm »
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This is way too strong. Even if it was terminal, it would still compare favorably to Witch.

Even taking Goat into account?

If Chupacabra and Witch were both in the same set, Chupacabra would outclass Witch. So yes. Cards that grant Heirlooms have to be at least somewhat balanced with or without their Heirloom. Nobody in their right mind would ever buy any other junking Attack with Chupacabra in the Kingdom.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 11:08:54 pm by Gubump »
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2803 on: July 19, 2019, 03:18:47 am »
+3



Quote
Kelpie
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
You may discard any number of Curses for +$1 each.
----
When you gain a Curse, you may reveal then discard this from your hand, to return up to 2 cards from your hand to the supply

I wanted to make a card that actually worked with Cursed Gold instead of against it. So, a card that can make Cursed Gold's curse gaining somewhat useful, and also gives you a buy with which to spend that $3.

I wanted to make the top powerful enough to make this worth $5, but then I realized that in a game with Cursed Gold, everyone can open $5 anyway. So I think it's weak enough for $4. Maybe too weak? Not sure.

Edit: Changed the top and modified the reaction to prevent revealing the reaction multiple times.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 02:30:32 am by mail-mi »
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2804 on: July 19, 2019, 04:07:27 am »
+1



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

Edit: from 'choose' to 'name' a card, thanks to discussion further down this page
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 04:55:29 am by Aquila »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2805 on: July 19, 2019, 09:46:49 am »
0



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

This feels like it got swinginess to it.

Goat, Silver, and 3 Modelers can get you 3 $5 cards. Copper, Silver, and 3 Modelers means your modelers are dead. Like you said, with an engine, this is easy to exploit (draw your deck trash a $4 card and every modeler is a non terminal gain a non-victory card costing up to $6.)

I personally don't like tracking things like cards I trashed, but I don't see why it would be any different than remembering what cards your opponent gained on his turn (smugglers) or how many cards he gained (treasure hunter), so I think it's fine.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2806 on: July 19, 2019, 09:52:03 am »
0



This is way too strong. Even if it was terminal, it would still compare favorably to Witch.

Even taking Goat into account?

If Chupacabra and Witch were both in the same set, Chupacabra would outclass Witch.
I don't know. Assuming that we talk about a potential terminal version of Chupacabra, well, +2 Coffers seems on average slightly better than +2 Cards to me. Which says very little. If Witch is the only draw in the Kingdom, you'd rather have Witch.

Quote
So yes. Cards that grant Heirlooms have to be at least somewhat balanced with or without their Heirloom.
Shepherd disagrees with that.
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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2807 on: July 19, 2019, 11:04:29 am »
0

So I made a coupla things and wanna chat pros + cons for each

Gambler
Revision A - ezmode slots

Pros:
  • pays out nearly every time - still a miss if you hit on like. durations that are mixed action-durations and night-durations
  • can do a lot of roles, although none reliably
  • gravitates towards +$1 +1 Buy due to Lucky Coin
  • probably a better buy elsewhere

Revision C - hard mode slots


imgur ate revision b but it's fine, it wasn't that different than this one
  • Usually just a terminal silver with some pretty mediocre cycling
  • With Lucky coin, gravitates towards being a high $ card
  • probably underpriced when there's any thinning to tamp down the noise in the deck
Revision D - blackjack woodcutter

  • con: math. and setting up a deck to get to $7 (altho this being $4 + free silvers from LC being $3 helps)
  • pro: better cycling even on misses
  • pro: always at least a woodcutter and/or chancellor
  • probably the quickest of the lot to play
Revision F - roulette upgrade

What happened to revision E? it looked too much like "revision C" at everything but max resolution.

  • pro: probably most useful - remodel those Curses directly into Provinces!
  • con: turns will take forever
  • con: clumsy wording - help? maybe add coin tokens to the card and then it's sort of Butcheresque?
  • pro: Lucky Coin gives you trashing fodder so you don't have to start from $0 with a Copper every time
  • con: only limit to guesses is number of cards in deck - probably shouldn't allow for a Curse -> Colony upgrade

My entry is revision D but talk through these with me, change my mind.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2808 on: July 19, 2019, 11:42:14 am »
0



Some people might take issue with a Night card giving Coffers, since Coffers didn't exist in Nocturne. I'm not one of those people, but it's something to consider.
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2809 on: July 19, 2019, 03:39:01 pm »
0



Here is my entry for this week: Silversmith, which uses Lucky Coin.  The on-play is the same as Silk Merchant, with some light terminal draw and +Buy, and then the bottom essentially lets you Counterfeit any or all Silvers you play this turn (doubling them at the cost of trashing them).  Early on, you can trash one of your opening Silvers to spike a critical price point, and then later you can aim to trash a bunch of Silvers for a big payout in the endgame.  Lucky Coin conveniently provides some consistent fodder.

*Edit: Corrected wording to match Counterfeit's play-twice-and-trash language.  Also corrected card name's spelling.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 04:12:12 pm by 4est »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2810 on: July 19, 2019, 03:54:42 pm »
+1



Here is my entry for this week: Silver Smith, which uses Lucky Coin.  The on-play is the same as Silk Merchant, with some light terminal draw and +Buy, and then the bottom essentially lets you Counterfeit any or all Silvers you play this turn (doubling them at the cost of trashing them).  Early on, you can trash one of your opening Silvers to spike a critical price point, and then later you can aim to trash a bunch of Silvers for a big payout in the endgame.  Lucky Coin conveniently provides some consistent fodder.

Recommend wording update... "While this is in play, when you play a Silver, you may play it again. If you do, trash it." It avoids the weirdness of playing something from the trash (even though playing it from the trash does work fine).

I'm guessing this is super strong... even without Lucky Coin there to feed you extra Silver, Silver is often something you'd rather trash after playing once; and getting an extra out of it is just icing on the cake.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2811 on: July 19, 2019, 04:09:29 pm »
0

Collector can upgrade played cards into better cards. By allowing you to set aside cards you already have one copy of in play, it also makes activating its heirloom, Magic Lamp, easier.



Changelog:
v0.1 - initial
v0.2 - move trashing to start of clean up; remove option to directly gain
v0.3 - move trashing (again) to end of turn (after draw)



Secret History:

Inspired by Magic Lamp, I started with setting aside cards for which you already had a copy in play.  It was too weak that way, and also simpler to just let you set aside any card. Trashing first happened when you play, then moved to start of clean up (to allow for treasures and night cards), and then moved again to end of turn (in order to have a minor penalty for setting aside, that set aside cards may miss a shuffle).



« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 01:31:37 pm by scolapasta »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2812 on: July 19, 2019, 05:11:10 pm »
0



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

The trash is an unordered multiset. As soon a card is added to the trash, you lose track of it. The game mechanics have no way to find out, which instance of card you have trashed and how much it costed when you trashed it. This also has issues with Rogue, Lurker, Graverobber and Possession.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 05:12:41 pm by King Leon »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2813 on: July 19, 2019, 05:17:44 pm »
+1



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

The trash is an unordered multiset. As soon a card is added to the trash, you lose track of it. The game mechanics have no way to find out, which instance of card you have trashed and how much it costed when you trashed it. This also has issues with Rogue, Lurker, Graverobber and Possession.

I'm not sure what you mean here... there's no need "track" things in the sense that Dominion uses that word. In Dominion, "tracking" only matters if you need to move a card. This is tracking in the more general sense of simply remembering past events. And Dominion does that plenty, see Smuggler and Treasure Hunter. The people actually playing the cards are the ones that have to do this sort of tracking. My and my opponent both know and agree that I trashed a Silver this turn, so we can get the cost of Silver and use that.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2814 on: July 19, 2019, 06:03:17 pm »
0

I'm not sure what you mean here... there's no need "track" things in the sense that Dominion uses that word. In Dominion, "tracking" only matters if you need to move a card. This is tracking in the more general sense of simply remembering past events. And Dominion does that plenty, see Smuggler and Treasure Hunter. The people actually playing the cards are the ones that have to do this sort of tracking. My and my opponent both know and agree that I trashed a Silver this turn, so we can get the cost of Silver and use that.

Treasure Hunter only refers to the number of gained cards, while Smugglers give you a copy of a card, your opponent gained. There is no way to identify a certain instance of a card in the trash, though. Modeller instructs you to choose a card that you have trashed this turn, which is impossible. Maybe either changing the world "Choose" to "Name" or just switching this to a Reaction card is what you want.

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2815 on: July 19, 2019, 06:40:09 pm »
+1



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

The trash is an unordered multiset. As soon a card is added to the trash, you lose track of it. The game mechanics have no way to find out, which instance of card you have trashed and how much it costed when you trashed it. This also has issues with Rogue, Lurker, Graverobber and Possession.
Huh? There is no mechanical issue at all. This card works precisely like Smugglers, i.e. you have to remember what you gained/trashed. And it is actually on a practical level simpler to memorize/handle than Smuggler as you can put all the cards you have trashed this turn onto a slightly different place than the trash (and after your Night phase, you move them onto the trash heap).
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2816 on: July 19, 2019, 07:51:41 pm »
0

New entry.

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math

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2817 on: July 20, 2019, 12:36:29 am »
+2

Here is my submission.



Manor - $5 Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
If this is the first time you played a Manor this turn, you may trash a card from your hand.
---------------------
When you gain this, gain another Manor (that doesn't come with another).
Heirloom: Haunted Mirror.

Any card that is paired with Haunted Mirror should have a way to trash the Mirror.  Manor is a cantrip that trashes the first time you play it in a turn, and it also comes with a second copy.  If you draw them together, you might be able to trash the Haunted Mirror and discard the second copy for a Ghost.  Even if you can't do that, the second one is still a cantrip so it isn't completely dead.

Version 2.0: Edited to make the trashing optional.  Original:
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 01:04:24 pm by math »
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2818 on: July 20, 2019, 12:54:35 am »
+1



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

The trash is an unordered multiset. As soon a card is added to the trash, you lose track of it. The game mechanics have no way to find out, which instance of card you have trashed and how much it costed when you trashed it. This also has issues with Rogue, Lurker, Graverobber and Possession.
Huh? There is no mechanical issue at all. This card works precisely like Smugglers, i.e. you have to remember what you gained/trashed. And it is actually on a practical level simpler to memorize/handle than Smuggler as you can put all the cards you have trashed this turn onto a slightly different place than the trash (and after your Night phase, you move them onto the trash heap).

So, what about the following case? You bought a card from the Black Market, trashed it, gained it back with Lurker and then masqueraded it to another player and then summon Modeller. There is no pile for the card from the Black Market and it is hard to keep track of the card. Maybe I am thinking too complicated or I have another understanding of the lose-track rule. Modeller explicitly requires to keep track of all card trashed in your turn, which would be a new mechanic. This is not bad, but it may have the mentioned issues.
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2819 on: July 20, 2019, 03:12:14 am »
0

Goblin
cost $4 - Action
+$2
In this turn, cards cost $1 less per a card you bought, but not less than $2.
Heirloom: Poach
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 03:14:38 am by majiponi »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2820 on: July 20, 2019, 03:41:42 am »
0



This being non-terminal scares me a little into thinking it should cost $5, but it would feel weak there. The presence of any draw card could make building with this too fast...
And tracking the trashes you've done should be OK?

The trash is an unordered multiset. As soon a card is added to the trash, you lose track of it. The game mechanics have no way to find out, which instance of card you have trashed and how much it costed when you trashed it. This also has issues with Rogue, Lurker, Graverobber and Possession.
Huh? There is no mechanical issue at all. This card works precisely like Smugglers, i.e. you have to remember what you gained/trashed. And it is actually on a practical level simpler to memorize/handle than Smuggler as you can put all the cards you have trashed this turn onto a slightly different place than the trash (and after your Night phase, you move them onto the trash heap).

So, what about the following case? You bought a card from the Black Market, trashed it, gained it back with Lurker and then masqueraded it to another player and then summon Modeller. There is no pile for the card from the Black Market and it is hard to keep track of the card. Maybe I am thinking too complicated or I have another understanding of the lose-track rule. Modeller explicitly requires to keep track of all card trashed in your turn, which would be a new mechanic. This is not bad, but it may have the mentioned issues.

You are misunderstanding /misusing the lose track rule. The lose track rule can only prevent a card from being moved. It cannot prevent anything else, such as finding out information about a card. You are correct that you may be able to physically find the card that you trashed, but thatís ok, there is no need to physically find it. You just have to have remembered what card you trashed, and how much it costs. The game can require players to remember things, it's ok if you canít physically locate the card. You can choose it without seeing or finding it.

However, your edge case does make me think of a different edge case... you trash a Band of Misfits, then player Lurker to gain it back. Then you draw some cards, making you shuffle. Then play a Band of Misfits as something. Play Modeller, choosing Band of Misfits. You now need to know what it cost. If itís still somewhere in your deck, it cost $5. If itís the one you played, it costs less.

So yeah, ďname a cardĒ could be a fix to that, because if you name Band of Misfits, that has a specific fixed cost in Dominion of $5; and that remains true even if there are no visible Band of Misfit cards to be found to check the price.

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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2821 on: July 20, 2019, 04:01:13 am »
0

Goblin
cost $4 - Action
+$2
In this turn, cards cost $1 less per a card you bought, but not less than $2.
Heirloom: Poach

This wording is a little funky. Does this mean that Copper and Curse cost 2 while this is in play?
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2822 on: July 20, 2019, 04:55:07 am »
0

Modeller explicitly requires to keep track of all card trashed in your turn, which would be a new mechanic.
No, it does not. This has nothing at all with tracking in the mechanical sense. You simply gotta remember the Coin value of all the cards you trashed.
It is literally the same as Smugglers, the presence of a cards forces you to remembering stuff and that isn't a new, complicated mechanic.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2823 on: July 20, 2019, 05:30:02 am »
0

Goblin
cost $4 - Action
+$2
In this turn, cards cost $1 less per a card you bought, but not less than $2.
Heirloom: Poach

This wording is a little funky. Does this mean that Copper and Curse cost 2 while this is in play?
Oh, I didn't mean so, but that is interesting, too. What I wanted was not letting you buy Coppers to reduce Province cost to $0. Maybe I should say "cards cost $1 less per a card you bought, which cost at least $1, but not less than $0." But this is too wordy.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2824 on: July 20, 2019, 06:45:55 am »
0

Modeller explicitly requires to keep track of all card trashed in your turn, which would be a new mechanic.
No, it does not. This has nothing at all with tracking in the mechanical sense. You simply gotta remember the Coin value of all the cards you trashed.
It is literally the same as Smugglers, the presence of a cards forces you to remembering stuff and that isn't a new, complicated mechanic.
I agree that 'name a card' is simpler and cleaner as this discussion has mentioned, so I've changed it now. Thanks all.

Never played Nocturne but here are a few observations:

Quote
Meadow - $2 cost, choose two of +card, +action, gain meadow. When you trash this +3 Coffers. Heirloom: goat.
3 Coffers each trash feels like quite a lot of income from potentially a single investment of $2, and we know the problem of big Coffers accumulation from Renaissance. 2 Coffers maybe?

Quote
Kelpie - $4 cost, +action +buy may discard curse for +2 cards. When you gain curse may reveal this to return 2 cards from hand to supply. Heirloom: cursed gold.
Why choose return to supply over trashing here? To reuse Curses? If there are no attacks giving them out it further limits the usability of your cursed gold. The reveal from hand to do this does allow multiple returns from one curse gain, which might be too strong thinning; though forcing two each time limits things a little.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 06:49:43 am by Aquila »
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