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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 61085 times)

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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1975 on: May 17, 2019, 02:10:28 pm »
0

First Mate looks crazy. Discard a Gold and a Province, draw 14 cards.
Apprentice does at least come with a cost, you have to trash the good card.

Probably, but I thought that was the whole point of travellers. I'd still take Disciple over it, whatever that means.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1976 on: May 17, 2019, 03:09:05 pm »
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First Mate looks crazy. Discard a Gold and a Province, draw 14 cards.
Apprentice does at least come with a cost, you have to trash the good card.

Probably, but I thought that was the whole point of travellers. I'd still take Disciple over it, whatever that means.
The official Travellers are strong and often centralizing but not totally overpowered. Even if you use First Mate midgame to e.g. discard 3 Silvers (you can do better, this seems like the lower end of its strength) it would still be Discard 3 cards. + 9 Cards and thus stronger than any official terminal draw.
Great anywhere, you can use it in an engine but you could also just play with money and two First Mates. Disciple on the other hand is only good if the Kingdom has engine potential.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1977 on: May 17, 2019, 05:03:36 pm »
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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1978 on: May 17, 2019, 05:31:33 pm »
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First Mate looks crazy. Discard a Gold and a Province, draw 14 cards.
Apprentice does at least come with a cost, you have to trash the good card.

Probably, but I thought that was the whole point of travellers. I'd still take Disciple over it, whatever that means.
The official Travellers are strong and often centralizing but not totally overpowered. Even if you use First Mate midgame to e.g. discard 3 Silvers (you can do better, this seems like the lower end of its strength) it would still be Discard 3 cards. + 9 Cards and thus stronger than any official terminal draw.
Great anywhere, you can use it in an engine but you could also just play with money and two First Mates. Disciple on the other hand is only good if the Kingdom has engine potential.

Okay my first reply didn't really address any issues, sorry about that.

Bit of a tangent but the official travellers are totally overpowered, by my definition of overpowered at least. In all my years of playing dominion I don't remember a Peasant kingdom with no engine potential- you could construct one of course but realistically it's so just rare. Peasant just kind of does everything you need with very little support.

I'm pretty sure 2 First Mates money is awful, it takes ages to get there- you're probably getting your first one around turn 10 or so in a big money game (I'm assuming that there's no non-Swab trashing and we're buying Silvers and such) and that should be over halfway through the game if both players went for a sensible money strategy. Not to mention Cabin Boy will be next to useless so your early turns won't be great, meaning you'll have less expensive cards to discard to First Mate. You'll probably trash 2 Estates with Swabbies, but then you still have 7 Coppers so First Mates dudding doesn't seem like it'll be too rare. If you choose to trash 2 Copper instead then you're crippling your early buying power even more... I just don't see it.

In an engine it draws a bunch of cards in a sort of unreliable way, is that really that crazy considering you're probably going to have like 1-2 of them and you'll need some other draw sources to be reliable anyway? It's "just" terminal draw so you're still going to need other things which I tired to exclude from the traveller line to capitalise on it. Not to mention that maybe you don't want to draw too many cards because you need to get +Actions from Captain.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is over the top and broken, but I don't think it's nearly as clear cut and obvious as you make it out to be. I don't think you're taking the context into account enough, this isn't a card you can just add to your deck whenever you want. I do think it should probably be non-Victory because discarding provinces is a bit lame.
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Awaclus

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1979 on: May 17, 2019, 05:42:31 pm »
+1

Even if you use First Mate midgame to e.g. discard 3 Silvers (you can do better, this seems like the lower end of its strength) it would still be Discard 3 cards. + 9 Cards and thus stronger than any official terminal draw.

Disciple plays an Action card from your hand twice and permanently gains another copy of it for free. This is roughly the effect of a $6 terminal Action (and just the effect, not the terminality) tacked onto one of the strongest $4 antiterminals. Or, in other terms, as long as you can draw your deck and you have the +actions to play your newly gained card, stronger than King's Court (and thus stronger than any other official Throne variant).
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1980 on: May 17, 2019, 07:12:04 pm »
+3



I might have spent too long on the art and not long enough on the cards this time...
These should totally win just for the art.

segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1981 on: May 18, 2019, 06:52:20 am »
+1

Okay my first reply didn't really address any issues, sorry about that.

Bit of a tangent but the official travellers are totally overpowered, by my definition of overpowered at least. n all my years of playing dominion I don't remember a Peasant kingdom with no engine potential- you could construct one of course but realistically it's so just rare. Peasant just kind of does everything you need with very little support.
My experience differs, there are Kingdoms in which Peasant is bad as the Kingdom does not provide any engine potential. E.g. if Pearl Diver is the only non-terminal Action and there are no gainers or extra Buys, I seriously doubt that going hard on making these Pearl Divers into Labs is automatically the dominant strategy.
And Page is on average a weaker line anyway. If Warrior is the only draw in the Kingdom going for 2-3 Warriors and Champion is of course fine but not overpowered.

Independent of how the official cards are, I don't think that fan cards should be overpowered. If somebody did something broken like Cultist or Rebuild, well, that would be a bad card.


Quote
In an engine it draws a bunch of cards in a sort of unreliable way, is that really that crazy considering you're probably going to have like 1-2 of them and you'll need some other draw sources to be reliable anyway?
I have played engines with 2 Hunting Grounds as well as with 2 Royal Blacksmiths. And First Mate is likely to draw double the amount of cards either of these two most powerful official terminal draw cards do draw.

A pretty straightforward nerf of First Mate, that would lose none of its flavour, would be two cards. It would still be a powerful sifter/drawer. Even the seemingly worst case, just discarding 2 Silvers for 6 cards, is good. It is the same net net effect as Hunting Grounds with the extra benefit of sifting through the stuff which you want to draw at last.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1982 on: May 18, 2019, 12:49:15 pm »
+1

if Pearl Diver is the only non-terminal Action and there are no gainers or extra Buys

It's literally impossible for this to be the case if Peasant is on the board.

Peasant automatically makes any board into an engine board; the only exceptions are deliberately contrived boards with mostly Kingdom Treasures.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1983 on: May 18, 2019, 04:41:22 pm »
+2

if Pearl Diver is the only non-terminal Action and there are no gainers or extra Buys

It's literally impossible for this to be the case if Peasant is on the board.

Peasant automatically makes any board into an engine board; the only exceptions are deliberately contrived boards with mostly Kingdom Treasures.
Yeah, non-engine isn't really the kind of board where Peasant is bad, it's boards with super fast strategies that outpace Peasant.
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1984 on: May 18, 2019, 05:29:19 pm »
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Victim can be more exciting going up to +$3, an Action Silver- was never ~$4.5 was it? He's got to damage you somehow, he's been inflicted on one of his quests, and you can work around the discard in several ways for good enough payload.

But of course this is way too similar to Quester...

...so I've changed it to looking for a pair from the deck. He's still got to gain a Gold, for the link to Quest.

That's heavy cycling with Errand Runner as well, so finally:

All I can see it being is Action copper, that's all it needs. If a Traveller line can do everything, there's a risk that it becomes the sole game strategy sometimes. There are 9 other piles it should potentially benefit from. Avenger might be too much draw to sit together with these payload options?

Victim: Certainly feels much more worth the effort now. At it's worst you should have no problem hitting $5 with 1 Victim and 2 Coppers. At its best... well that's hard to determine, but I'm sure you can do a lot of cools things with this. Seems like a good T3 slot.

Quester: Gives some nice cycling power. At first glace it seems strong, but with all the Traveller cards (which you'll likely only have one copy of for awhile) and the anti-self synergy of gaining Golds (which you'll also likely only have one copy of for awhile), this probably works fine.

Errand Runner: Weak as it should be, but now with good synergy with Victim.

What I mainly like now is that all give +1 Action and make getting +2 Actions from Tag Team much more likely.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1985 on: May 19, 2019, 07:47:44 am »
0





Each player has their own Traveller token, but a card counts as a Traveller card, when any playerís Traveller token is on its pile, regardless of the owner of that token. Bugler can only gain Travellers from the supply (obviously).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:21:01 pm by King Leon »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1986 on: May 20, 2019, 02:42:18 pm »
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Is it about that time to travel to the next Weekly Challenge?
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1987 on: May 20, 2019, 09:31:03 pm »
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Is it about that time to travel to the next Weekly Challenge?

Based on when this challenge was given, we're two days overdue.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1988 on: May 20, 2019, 10:37:10 pm »
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Yes, sorry about that, I've been occupied with other things. I'm writing up the final judging post right now; I'll give 24 hours for any additional entries.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1989 on: May 21, 2019, 11:43:19 pm »
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Thank you for all of your entries. Making a Traveler line takes a lot of work, and I appreciate the effort you all have put into these.

majiponiís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800484#msg800484)

So this line has a trashing theme. Gravekeeper has an interesting interaction with the others, not only because you get +1VP for trashing but because you can gain a Silver to your hand and then Remodel it. As for the others, Bankrupt looks very strong, as itís very similar to Masquerade, one of the strongest 3s. Imposter, meanwhile, looks very weak; it will mostly help your opponents like Pirate Ship does.

LibraryAdventurerís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800493#msg800493)

These have some neat interactions. Individually they look weak, but together they have some nice engine potential. The main problem I see is that they rely heavily on Victory cards to function optimally. This is also true of Shepherd, but Shepherd gives you an additional reason to gain Estates and an extra Victory card at the beginning. I fear Mimblescout and his friends will run into the same problem regular Scout did.

NoMoreFunís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800496#msg800496)

The interactions with Treasures are nice, but to me some of these look too swingy. Getting an early Gold from colliding your first Digger with a Silver could easily be the whole game. The same thing with colliding your first Town Crier with a Gold. Gold Rush somewhat mitigates this by staying in play, but it still gives you a bonkers benefit for drawing the right hand that could snowball rapidly.

anordinarymanís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800550#msg800550)

These are very nice. I like that they each give you a reason to keep them around instead of immediately upgrading them. Crusade is a good trasher, Underground Railroad is amazing draw in the beginning with the downside that youíll mostly be drawing junk, and Bribery is a strong Attack. The weak link is Border Crossing, which has little reason to be retained, although it offers an interesting choice nonetheless. My main complaint is that Bribery is too spammable. Playing a bunch of them at once will be very nasty, and getting a bunch wonít be too hard as Crusade can gain copies of itself.

ClouduHiehís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800562#msg800562)

I assume Fur Trader is supposed to be worth 2 VP for every Traveler YOU HAVE? Thatís an interesting idea, but the other cards in the line donít really interact with each other.

4estís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800631#msg800631)

Another good one. Cottage is a nice and simple starting card, though the cheapness and the +Buy might make just spamming these a viable strategy, especially if thereís something like Kingís Court. Abbey is maybe OP as well. Hospital is a cool attack. City Hall is really cool, I love that you got the idea of losing VP chips for benefit to work. Manor looks okay, it opens up the interesting strategy of buying a bunch of cheap Victory cards for VP and then trashing them immediately with Abbey.

seguraís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800652#msg800652)

Archer has the swinginess problem; getting to trash 3 cards by immediately colliding this with another Traveler from this line will often be game-deciding. Mauler is way too good, even for a $6 Traveler. The attack is horrifically brutal and getting 3 or even 4 Coffers will be common. Really donít like the infinite Attacks clause on General; even disregarding Mauler that will be painful on a lot of boards. Having said all that, I do like Infantryman and Cavalry.

Chappy7ís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800654#msg800654)

I love the theme as well as the fact that you have to do a bit more to advance to the next level. Unfortunately, these hardly interact with each other, which is something Iíd really prefer to see in a Traveler line.

Kudasaiís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800662#msg800662)

Iím sort of feeling that this line isnít interesting enough for how complicated it is. The idea of adding an Artifact to a Traveler line is good, but I think just one Artifact for the Travelers to interact with might be good enough. I definitely donít like that Matriarch locks in the Artifacts. Travelers missing the shuffle can already screw you over real bad; this just increases the problem. The official cards have Tournament, but that involves more strategy than this (and Tournament is still widely hated).

FlyerBeastís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800971#msg800971)

Another Traveler-Treasure with an amusing theme. Meal is great, and interacts well with Morsel. Morsel itself looks good except it seems too obviously better than Peasant; would it be more interesting if it gave $0? Dessert looks very interesting. Toast looks good.

Fragasnapís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800702#msg800702)

Well, this line will have junk being gained and trashed like crazy, thatís for sure! I feel that Iconoclast is a bit too easy to get for how insanely strong it is, and that Saint maybe makes things a bit too easy.

herwís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800870#msg800870)

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.

Aquilaís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800873#msg800873)

Quester looks pretty swingy; I say this mostly because itís a Traveler so you wonít necessarily keep it around very long and also because youíll probably play it pretty early when collisions like this are very random. I love Victim, and Avenger works well with it. Tag Team looks neat.

faustís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg800987#msg800987)

Really like the idea of traveling through the basic types; a pure Reaction-Traveler is one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here. And if Iím reading it right, you exchange some other card to get to the next stage, instead of Forgotten Path? Thatís certainly interesting. This line overall looks like something you might not necessarily want to go for, which is good; it makes the decision more interesting.

Gazbagís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg801008#msg801008)

I agree that First Mate looks crazy, and not just because he doesnít seem to be wearing anything under that coat. Iíd limit it to discarding 2 cards at most. These cards overall are very creative in and of themselves. Unfortunately, they lack any synergy with each other beyond just generally caring about Action cards.

Gubumpís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg801034#msg801034)

The meta-ness is cool. My main concern is that these are too strong; Concubine and Consort in particular get nuts with Queen in play, and from what I can tell, Queens can stack!

King Leonís entry (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg801089#msg801089)

More cool Meta stuff, and the Traveler Token looks cool. My main complaint is that absent other Travelers these will all be very weak when youíre first going through the line to get the Paladin.

---------------------------

Short list: anordinaryman, 4est, FlyerBeast, Aquila, Faust

It was very close between those five, but the winner based on elegance, balance, theme and interactions is 4est, with FlyerBeast as the runner-up.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 11:55:31 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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herw

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1990 on: May 21, 2019, 11:58:34 pm »
0

[...]
herwís entry:

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.
[...]
The trick is not to go back to the first traveller but to Franfeluche or Melusine directly. So Dryads/Franfeluche or Dryads/Melusine are really one card!
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1991 on: May 22, 2019, 12:11:12 am »
0

[...]
herwís entry:

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.
[...]
The trick is not to go back to the first traveller but to Franfeluche or Melusine directly. So Dryads/Franfeluche or Dryads/Melusine are really one card!

I know that. I'm wondering why you would bother promoting either of those to Dryads if you're just going to go back to them.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1992 on: May 22, 2019, 12:12:13 am »
0

[...]
herwís entry:

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.
[...]
The trick is not to go back to the first traveller but to Franfeluche or Melusine directly. So Dryads/Franfeluche or Dryads/Melusine are really one card!

I know that. I'm wondering why you would bother promoting either of those to Dryads if you're just going to go back to them.

Because it's a lost city on play.
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herw

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1993 on: May 22, 2019, 12:22:58 am »
0

[...]
herwís entry:

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.
[...]
The trick is not to go back to the first traveller but to Franfeluche or Melusine directly. So Dryads/Franfeluche or Dryads/Melusine are really one card!

I know that. I'm wondering why you would bother promoting either of those to Dryads if you're just going to go back to them.
because you have a powerful line with dryads:
dryads/Fanfreluche -> Melusine -> dryads/xxx or dryads/Melusine -> dryads/Melusine ... your choice or with a second traveller line too; i have tested with much fun.
There is another traveller's line next days (see my thread).
The idea is, that the last traveller isn't a static card.

Nevertheless it was fun to create a line.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:25:14 am by herw »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1994 on: May 22, 2019, 03:21:33 am »
0

Mauler is way too good, even for a $6 Traveler. The attack is horrifically brutal and getting 3 or even 4 Coffers will be common. Really donít like the infinite Attacks clause on General; even disregarding Mauler that will be painful on a lot of boards.
You seem to have missed the "multiplayer brake", i.e. that a second Mauler hit is neutral (as it swaps a Ruins for a Ruins), as well as that Mauler and Archer defend against these potentially strong Mauler attacks (plus, money as an obvious defense).
I don't see the problem of General making Attacks non-terminal (that it buffs discard/junk Attacks into Ghost Ships/ Sea Hags is far stronger). It is a splitter, so what? Champion and Teacher can make far more cards non-terminal. You can always keep some Archers around to defend at once, respectively after the fact to deal with the incoming Coppers/Ruins.


[...]
herwís entry:

Dryads is really neat; one of the more creative ideas Iíve seen here, although Iím kind of wondering why you would bother promoting a Traveler in the first place if you plan on going back to it. Mountain Troll looks cool. The others are pretty similar to existing cards and donít excite me much, but I do like that Mesuline is another way to make a Grand Market thatís hard to get.
[...]
The trick is not to go back to the first traveller but to Franfeluche or Melusine directly. So Dryads/Franfeluche or Dryads/Melusine are really one card!

I know that. I'm wondering why you would bother promoting either of those to Dryads if you're just going to go back to them.
because you have a powerful line with dryads:
dryads/Fanfreluche -> Melusine -> dryads/xxx or dryads/Melusine -> dryads/Melusine ... your choice or with a second traveller line too; i have tested with much fun.
There is another traveller's line next days (see my thread).
The idea is, that the last traveller isn't a static card.

Nevertheless it was fun to create a line.
It is pretty vanilla but a cool line and at the first glance probably quite well balanced which is not easy to do with Travellers. And the switching from Dryad to Hero/Disciple in Page/Peasant Kingdoms is plain brilliant. Makes you probably stare at the board for some minutes before you can decide via which route you want to go to Champion/Teacher.
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FlyerBeast

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1995 on: May 22, 2019, 07:33:00 am »
0

FlyerBeast as the runner-up.

I'm honoured, Commodore, thanks! Last week certainly was an interesting contest, lots of card interactions to think about at once. Looking forward to the next one!
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4est

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1996 on: May 22, 2019, 11:22:22 am »
+1

Thanks Commodore Chuckles! Here is this week's challenge:

Challenge #30: Design a Debt card (or card-shaped thing)

Acceptable submissions may have a Debt cost (such as Overlord, Engineer, or Triumph), may somehow cause you or other players to take Debt (such as Capital, Tax, or Mountain Pass), or may otherwise interact with Debt in whatever unique ways you can think of. Judging will be based on ingenuity, balance, and creative/appropriate use of the Debt mechanic (e.g. for a Debt-cost card, there should be a compelling reason for your card to cost Debt and not $). Have fun!
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1997 on: May 22, 2019, 03:32:12 pm »
+1

Ok. Here is my submission:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 03:33:29 pm by naitchman »
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Frolouch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1998 on: May 22, 2019, 04:07:43 pm »
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Replacing my Scoundrels submission with a simpler card using the debt mechanic:

Monoculture version #4:


*Changed the text, added "After Clean-Up..."

Previous entry
Scoundrels:
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 02:29:41 pm by Frolouch »
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naitchman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1999 on: May 22, 2019, 04:21:12 pm »
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Scoundrels:

What does "+$2 for each other player on their next turn" mean?
Also, this should probably be an attack (it also doesn't need a line break).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 04:22:22 pm by naitchman »
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