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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1550 on: March 13, 2019, 11:27:34 pm »
0

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MeNowDealWithIt

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1551 on: March 14, 2019, 04:24:24 am »
+1

Quote
Foodstall
$1* Action - Duration - Shelter
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, +1 Buy

Quote
Spire
$3* Action - Shelter
+1 Action
-
When you trash this, put it into your hand.
Quote
Clue
$1* Night - Shelter
If you've gained at least 2 cards this turn, trash this.
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terminalCopper

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1552 on: March 14, 2019, 05:06:44 pm »
+1


Quote
Foodstall
$1* Action - Duration - Shelter
+1 Action
At the start of your next turn, +1 Buy

Wonderful! This innocent little shelter can create games with one and a half buy per turn on average, which is game-changing and new afaik.
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1553 on: March 17, 2019, 05:13:22 am »
0

This is your 24-hour call, 24 hours left to get your Shelters judgment ready!
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Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1554 on: March 18, 2019, 06:12:27 am »
+2

And here we are.

So I was looking for some excitement; what I meant I suppose was for the Shelters to be potentially useful to the deck, unlike the ones in Dark Ages that only give Necropolis. You often want to trash Estates anyway, so the other 2 aren't that interesting. And there are quite a lot of different possibilities with the Shelter idea, yet at the same time it's very possible to make the game worse. So to see how you did...

Cave/Cabin/Hollow Tree (faust)
Cave: a situational Copper that rarely has an effect on the opening, but is a fun twist when it does work. Going late it's a bit more reliable. Making it an Action would be a bit cleaner, but could be too strong in the opening (and complete Courtier) so is wisely avoided.
Cabin: if you keep the other two cards in your deck this is a Province. Quite a powerful impetus, so if everyone's doing this decks against thin or cycling opponents that have at least one good Treasure are at a slight advantage.
Hollow Tree: puts a Treasure back onto deck, almost never itself. You can get a bit of shuffle control putting Coppers back early, besides other neat little tricks. Something you wouldn't mind coming up often in all random games.
Overall: a good start-off. Encouraging a deck to keep Hollow Tree in it is nice, whilst Cave adds a bit of player interaction. Cave might go better with a shelter that makes shuffles happen more, to get the most out of it.

Ill-gotten Treasury/Dry Moat/Secret Estate (majiponi)
Ill-gotten Treasury: trash for 3 Coppers to hand, now that's going to warp the start quite a bit with the possibility of 5/5, 4/6 or 3/7, though yes with 2 extra cards in the deck first shuffle. A bit like Banquet, so you won't always use it. Quite nice.
Dry Moat: trash to block an Attack, it's quite neat to help stop an opening Attack potentially taking other players out of the game, if it's in hand.
Secret Estate: if you trash it it still gives 1 VP. This gets you no further ahead or behind points wise (everyone's got this), just the card out the deck; so this is weaker than Overgrown Estate.
Overall: Moat and Treasury anti-synergise a bit. The main bit of excitement here in Treasury is not often very fun.

Boneyard/Hole/Dilapidated Estate (Chris is me)
Boneyard: straight 1 Villager, more reliable than Necropolis early and lets you get Villages into the deck later. Not so good late game, it likely saves a spare Action for later.
Hole: if used in the opening, it kinda makes the starter deck just 8 cards and one of your starting hands 3 cards, and you get some choice over the missing other card. Quite a big speed boost, but there are of course cases for using it later or not at all.
Dilapidated Estate: every Shelter gives 2VP if this is in deck. It's a fine choice for a Shelter mechanic. It puts a little question mark on using Hole.
Overall: almost every game is going to be about making an engine, but with a few options about how you use these Shelters to build it. The main question here is how often keeping Hole for VP is worth it, if it actually is an interesting decision.

Cove/Sanctuary/Belfry (hypercube)
Cove: puts 2 cards away for next hand, a handy effect mitigated by no draw or +Action. Drawn turn 1 and any saved Coppers can buy a $5+ that can go into the first shuffle. Drawn turn 2 and 3 cards miss the shuffle and a $3-$5 is put in. So there's a possible unfair advantage for some there.
Sanctuary: a one-off trash that ideally needs a bit of work, sweet. Cove can let this trash 2 more things, making a different boost to drawing it turn 1. You can only add a $2 in though, to balance things a bit.
Belfry: a +Villager Treasure if it's the only Treasure in play. The only reason to keep this is when a treasure-less deck is possible, or you set up dud turns with Cove, otherwise it falls with the Sanctuary.
Overall: I do like the synergy between these three, the different things they can do. Cove can speed up the first shuffle, calms down in impact later. It's just how much of a difference drawing it turn 1 or 2 will make.

Commons/Dowry/Workhouse (Fragasnap)
Commons: one non-Victory gained can be put in hand, this is strong when you can play the gain. On average not much, but occasionally great, power level feels spot on.
Dowry: a one-shot you want to pop late game, now that's a good Shelter premise in my mind. This encourages you to build up to a massive $ mega turn, or it can be more modestly used as an urgent buy during building. A question playtesting would have to answer is how often the mega turn route is dominant; too much so would be bad.
Workhouse: an interesting VP method that involves all the $2-s in the game, with +4 Actions on trash that can help save a turn, maybe the Dowry turn. Like the other varying VP Shelters here, it adds reason to keep them all. You might be moved to keep an uninteresting Commons, doesn't change Dowry but makes up here by including non Shelters.
Overall: each have good design in their own right, and have some synergy. Great, certainly exciting, the only thing is how Dowry might narrow the game a bit.

Pig/Shack/Old Shrine (Gazbag)
Pig: non-terminal buy that you can lose if you don't buy anything. Seems a shame to have to get a Copper in exchange, you lose that buy, but if the first version of Hovel had issues...
Shack: becomes a Lab with Gold in hand, nice way to make a Shelter relevant later.
Old Shrine: a sharp punishment for trashing this, each other player can gain a Gold that can activate their Shack. Doable with handsize attacks of course.
Overall: safe set to replay with, but the only excitement as such is activating Shack. Shrine detracts from this somewhat.

Empty Field/Shack/Stick (Doom_Shark)
Empty Field: changes into a $2, you really want there to be a $2 in the kingdom or possibly cost reduction, otherwise this is a Copper (or the Estate it would have been anyway).
Shack: Estate that you can make a Copper on trash. You'd lose a VP and gain a weak card, I think I prefer Overgrown Estate or an ordinary Estate.
Stick: you trash 2 cards in the opening at no loss of $, this makes things a bit too fast.
Overall: hard to say that I would use these over 3 Estates.

Allotments/Lost Place/Chicken Market (King Leon)
Allotments: cute, tiebreaker and tfb fodder go together fine.
Lost Place: Curses are made relevant to every game, which is nice. The very slow trashing hits the balance spot well, you may want to keep it or not. Softening oppressive early cursing Attacks is great. But you can also change Allotments to a $3 in the opening, speeding things up a bit for those who get them together. The randomness can be unpleasant.
Chicken Market: situational Ruined Market highly dependent on virtual $ or Gold gaining to do anything. It mitigates Lost Place changing Allotments to Silver a little bit. Some 3-card openings possible, but most likely for trashing, even with Lost Place into Copper.
Overall: it's all about Lost Place pretty much, which isn't a bad reason to use the set, just the chance of connecting to Allotments in the opening sets it back.

Savings/Savings/Drought (hhelibebcnofnena)
Savings: 2 Capitals worth $1. Opening splits can vary depending on how they divide between the turns ($7 total for both on turn 1, $8 for 1, $9 for 0), so although there's a bit of flexibility, there's potential for unpleasant random advantages.
Drought: untrashable junk. It stays out of the way if you can (Island it or) use an Action on it just before you shuffle, so the earlier it appears in the shuffle the more Actions you could need to make it work. A mild mitigation to the opening boost of the Savings later on, although it always keeps out of the first shuffle.
Overall: the start becomes heavily affected by chance, turn 3 recovery won't be much to deal with.

Overrun Duchy/Anvil/Allowance (mail-mi)
Overrun Duchy: more often than not a delayed Duchy, when you get it with a Province in hand. There's a bit of skill involved to pop it, but nothing that general good and bad play won't affect. It's alright.
Anvil: delayed Lackeys draw, the needed Action needs to be non-terminal. Cute if you can involve it in an engine.
Allowance: rather like a single Savings. The advantage of drawing it turn 2 is more modest than with the above set, but still a little setback.
Overall: individually each is mediocre, but no two are similar. Thereís nice variety, and they could be a pleasant set.

Ore/Helper/Homestead (NoMoreFun)
Ore: becomes a copy of a Treasure you gain. A Silver or maybe Quarry in the opening, or a $5+ later. Nice decision-making called for.
Helper: same as Ore but for Actions. Same pleasant strategizing, and here especially the fact you can't make this a $5 in the opening is an elegant touch.
Homestead: same as Ore but for a Victory. Very often it will be saved for a Province, which can be like taking a whole extra turn so be a big speed boost. The top-deck isn't much of a slowdown considering.
Overall: Ore and Helper are great, Homestead I'm not so keen on. Some random advantages are possible too.

Clergy House/Gingerbread House/Hunting Tent (Tejayes)
Clergy House: trash top of deck, highly risky after turn 1 if not for Hunting Tent. There's a bit of random advantage for those drawing these together.
Gingerbread House: you can try to preserve the 2VP, but the Tent or other Patron triggers will eat it and the clergy or another trasher will get the leftovers Curse. I can see Tent being heavily used at the start, so it's like a more fun, two-stage Hovel.
Hunting Tent: Treasure that scales better going late...or so it seems. Having several Actions on your deck at the Buy phase isn't going to be the best of decks. That's quite funny! Yet as a sorter it's just for Clergy House most of the time because it's in the Buy phase, so suitably weak overall.
Overall: Clergy House and Tent will make deck control easier, but not so much as to warp the game. It's quite fun too.

Chieftain Hut/Copper Vein/Sweeperís House (Commodore Chuckles)
Chieftain Hut: terminally save 2 Actions to play next turn, an effect that is distinctly useful sometimes but is suitably weak, a good Shelter.
Copper Vein: gain Copper to hand, yes it can make the opening $8 total but gets away with it by one more card in the deck. So it's sound.
Sweeper's House: discard top 2 from deck, situational yet weak like Hut so is again sound.
Overall: no real similarities, so it feels like a set pleasant to play with nice variety. Cute when one of them is useful.

Foodstall/Spire/Clue (MeNowDealWithIt)
Foodstall: non-terminal next-turn-Market Square. You play it whenever it's in hand, maybe the Buy will be useful next turn. You'd only trash it because it doesn't draw. Sort of uninteresting.
Spire: Ruined Village with Fortress effect, purely tfb fodder with its $3 cost and almost useless without any tfb cards in the game.
Clue: can trash when you gain more than 1 card in a turn. It synergizes with Foodstall, and is a nicer Hovel more suited to engine building.
Overall: safe set, but nothing here excites me that much.

If we took the sets apart and then picked 3 to go together, there would be a lot of great combos. I was almost tempted to put my favourite up, but couldn't really choose.

Shortlist: Cave, Cove, Boneyard, Commons, Overrun Duchy, Clergy House, Chieftain Hut.

Winner: Commons/Dowry/Workhouse by Fragasnap.
Runner-up: Chieftain Hut/Copper Vein/Sweeper's House by Commodore Chuckles.

Fragasnap's set of Shelters have convincing reasons to be kept, are quite replayable, don't affect the opening yet also can be justifiably trashed. Commodore's set is likely going to be safer in playtesting, but I just wasn't so excited by Copper Vein.
There are definitely good reasons to choose other sets here, or a combo from different sets, so I can see this contest coming up again in future. Congrats and well done all!
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1555 on: March 18, 2019, 06:24:36 am »
0

Cave: a situational Copper that rarely has an effect on the opening, but is a fun twist when it does work. Going late it's a bit more reliable. Making it an Action would be a bit cleaner, but could be too strong in the opening (and complete Courtier) so is wisely avoided.
The main reason to have Cave was combating first-player advantage by the way. Not sure if that came through.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1556 on: March 18, 2019, 06:18:25 pm »
+3

Fragasnap's set of Shelters have convincing reasons to be kept, are quite replayable, don't affect the opening yet also can be justifiably trashed.
Thanks for the kind words, Aquila.

Contest #23: Kingdom Card with Curses; Create a Kingdom card that can cause players to gain Curses.
  • The card can be a traditional Cursing Attack (Witch)
  • The card does not have to be an Attack (Embargo)
  • The card does not have to give Curses to other players (Hideout)
  • The card does not have to give Curses every time it is played (Giant) nor even when it is played (Ill-Gotten Gains)
  • The card must imply players gaining Curses in and of itself (not Ambassador, not Black Market)
  • Events (Ritual), Landmarks (Defiled Shrine), and Projects need not apply (Unless it is tied to a Kingdom card, like Tournament to Followers, or some such thing)
I think that is clear, but I will +1 any submission that fits the bill for clarity.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:21:38 am by Fragasnap »
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1557 on: March 19, 2019, 03:49:44 am »
+3

Pariah
Action - $4
Gain a card costing up to $5. Each other player may gain a curse onto their deck to gain a copy of it. (their choice)
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1558 on: March 19, 2019, 09:24:30 am »
+1

Shady Witch
cost $4 - Action - Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may discard a Treasure to trash a card from your hand.
You may discard a Treasure. If you do, each other player gains a Curse.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 09:32:37 am by majiponi »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1559 on: March 19, 2019, 09:46:30 am »
+4

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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1560 on: March 19, 2019, 10:23:43 pm »
+1



My attempt at a dual type Curse-ish card. You can buy it and then trash it later, but the Curse-gaining makes it more of a pain to do so. Overall, you'll have to decide if the extra +Action is worth it. The type is "Dark" instead of Curse to avoid any confusion.
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Gubump

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Re: Contest #23: Gains Curses
« Reply #1561 on: March 19, 2019, 11:44:16 pm »
+1



The last clause is there to prevent Blackmailer from becoming OP when the Curses run out.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1562 on: March 20, 2019, 06:32:29 am »
+3


Consul
Type: Action Ė Attack
Cost: $5

+1 Card
Reveal card from your hand. You may trash it. Each other player may discard a copy of that card. If they donít, they gain a Curse.

I hope, that it this is not too weak in comparison with Taxman, Witch, Masquerade and Junk Dealer.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:52:32 am by King Leon »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1563 on: March 20, 2019, 08:18:43 am »
+2



The non-mandatory trashing is the little extra, similar to Junk Dealer or Upgrade having a little extra relative to a mere cantrip trasher.
The main idea of the Attack is that you might want to junk the opponents if you have more trashing power.
To kickstart this Curses game I put the topdecking attack in there; not sure if it is too strong though.
The extra Buy is there to make everything run smoother with Potions but it could be too much.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Contest #23: Gains Curses
« Reply #1564 on: March 20, 2019, 10:27:00 am »
+1



The last clause is there to prevent Blackmailer from becoming OP when the Curses run out.

The last clause isn't necessary, though could be nice to have as an italics/parenthesized reminder. By regular Dominion rules, you can always choose an option that isn't possible; see Torturer after Curses have run out, or with an empty hand.

This card seems weak. It's a weaker version of Jester, and it costs less, but it seems way weaker. Any time this hits Copper, a Victory card, or any other Junk; it is just a terminal Silver with no other benefit, which is worse than a card. You can't stack it to give out multiple Curses, because of the top-decked Curse. But I think it will rarely give out Curses; unless your opponent already has a strong engine that can plow through Curses, they won't choose that option, and instead the card will mostly read "+. You may gain a copy of the top card of your opponent's deck." If you consider gaining a card very similar to your opponent trashing that same card; then this is almost a strictly weaker version of Swindler.
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Chris is me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1565 on: March 20, 2019, 11:47:15 am »
+3

Gambit

Action - $5

+3 Cards

You may gain a Curse to your hand. If you do, +1 Action.

---

May need to play with balance a bit - this could be better as a $4 with +2 Cards, but I wanna try the 3 cards version first.
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Gubump

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Re: Contest #23: Gains Curses
« Reply #1566 on: March 20, 2019, 12:11:31 pm »
0



The last clause is there to prevent Blackmailer from becoming OP when the Curses run out.

The last clause isn't necessary, though could be nice to have as an italics/parenthesized reminder. By regular Dominion rules, you can always choose an option that isn't possible; see Torturer after Curses have run out, or with an empty hand.

This card seems weak. It's a weaker version of Jester, and it costs less, but it seems way weaker. Any time this hits Copper, a Victory card, or any other Junk; it is just a terminal Silver with no other benefit, which is worse than a card. You can't stack it to give out multiple Curses, because of the top-decked Curse. But I think it will rarely give out Curses; unless your opponent already has a strong engine that can plow through Curses, they won't choose that option, and instead the card will mostly read "+. You may gain a copy of the top card of your opponent's deck." If you consider gaining a card very similar to your opponent trashing that same card; then this is almost a strictly weaker version of Swindler.

Do you think that bumping up its cost to $5 but making it non-terminal would balance it?
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Asper

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1567 on: March 20, 2019, 12:29:10 pm »
+1

Totem, Treasure - Attack, 5$
Worth 2$
+1 Buy
When you play this, each other may reveal a card you do not have a copy of in play from their hand. Those who don't gain a Curse.

Aquila

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1568 on: March 20, 2019, 05:27:42 pm »
+2

Quote
Scarecrow - Action Attack Duration, $4 cost.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+ $1
Each other player may discard an Estate. Those who don't gain a Curse.
-
While this is in play, when another player trashes a Curse, you may draw a card then discard a card.
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1569 on: March 21, 2019, 04:12:20 am »
0



My attempt at a dual type Curse-ish card. You can buy it and then trash it later, but the Curse-gaining makes it more of a pain to do so. Overall, you'll have to decide if the extra +Action is worth it. The type is "Dark" instead of Curse to avoid any confusion.
Hm - i don't like too many new types.I am in discussion about using purple banners too in German forum. I am using it for a traveller-serie with negative victory points. Donald's rule for purple banner only for curses (named curse) is not very useful.
Nevertheless you don't need a new type. It is no curse (-type) so no other curser will affect this card.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 05:53:50 am by herw »
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1570 on: March 21, 2019, 09:05:43 am »
0

Cursed Estate, Victory $4
1Vp
Whenever you gain this card, all other players gain a curse
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1571 on: March 21, 2019, 10:02:28 am »
0



My attempt at a dual type Curse-ish card. You can buy it and then trash it later, but the Curse-gaining makes it more of a pain to do so. Overall, you'll have to decide if the extra +Action is worth it. The type is "Dark" instead of Curse to avoid any confusion.
Hm - i don't like too many new types.I am in discussion about using purple banners too in German forum. I am using it for a traveller-serie with negative victory points. Donald's rule for purple banner only for curses (named curse) is not very useful.
Nevertheless you don't need a new type. It is no curse (-type) so no other curser will affect this card.

I almost replied with the same thing, but I'm unsure about the idea of a regular action being worth VP at the end, whether positive or negative. The VP type and the Curse type both let you know to count the VP on the cards at the end of the game. The rules simply say "Count up your " at game end; so they don't say that you are counting only Victory and Curse cards. But the color at least is helpful for knowing to count it at the end.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Contest #23: Gains Curses
« Reply #1572 on: March 21, 2019, 10:05:50 am »
0



The last clause is there to prevent Blackmailer from becoming OP when the Curses run out.

The last clause isn't necessary, though could be nice to have as an italics/parenthesized reminder. By regular Dominion rules, you can always choose an option that isn't possible; see Torturer after Curses have run out, or with an empty hand.

This card seems weak. It's a weaker version of Jester, and it costs less, but it seems way weaker. Any time this hits Copper, a Victory card, or any other Junk; it is just a terminal Silver with no other benefit, which is worse than a card. You can't stack it to give out multiple Curses, because of the top-decked Curse. But I think it will rarely give out Curses; unless your opponent already has a strong engine that can plow through Curses, they won't choose that option, and instead the card will mostly read "+. You may gain a copy of the top card of your opponent's deck." If you consider gaining a card very similar to your opponent trashing that same card; then this is almost a strictly weaker version of Swindler.

Do you think that bumping up its cost to $5 but making it non-terminal would balance it?

I think it would be better balanced. Because it's still weak when your opponent's deck is mostly Copper and Estate, you don't want one early anyway, so the cost difference won't matter as much as it would normally. As a non-terminal, it would act more like a Silver-with-a-bonus, and the bonus seems to me to be about on-par with the other Silver-with-a-bonuses at . I still think it is unlikely to give out Curses, as most opponents will choose to let you gain a copy most of the time instead.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1573 on: March 21, 2019, 10:06:37 am »
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Cursed Estate, Victory $4
1Vp
Whenever you gain this card, all other players gain a curse

With Baker in the kingdom you don't want to be the player with the 5/2 split. There is a reason that Ill-gotten Gains costs $5. With Baron/Squire/Herbalist/Storeroom/Pawn/Peasant this can lead to a quick Estate run.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 10:09:32 am by King Leon »
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lompeluiten

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #1574 on: March 21, 2019, 10:16:22 am »
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Cursed Estate, Victory $4
1Vp
Whenever you gain this card, all other players gain a curse

With Baker in the kingdom you don't want to be the player with the 5/2 split. There is a reason that Ill-gotten Gains costs $5. With Baron/Squire/Herbalist/Storeroom/Pawn/Peasant this can lead to a quick Estate run.

I dont know what the baker has to do with this?
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