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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1547745 times)

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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #400 on: October 24, 2018, 03:36:48 am »
+1


(Edited to fix a mistake on card)

BOOTLEG TOKENS - Whenever another player gains a card costing up to $4, you may spend a bootleg token to gain a copy of that card. You can only use one bootleg token for each card gained.

The flavor here is that you're paying the bootlegger to steal things for you. The more you pay him, they more he will steal for you.

Its obviously inspired by Smuggler (a personal favorite of mine), except its actually more of a remodeler that you have to wait for and don't have a lot of control over.

Cool token idea! I've always secretly wished for more Smugglers concepts. I know you just made a change so you can only trash Coppers, Silvers, and Golds, but I think I have some wording that would allow you to trash any Treasure. It goes something like this:

"You may trash a Treasure from your hand. +1 Bootleg per $1 it would make if played now."

I'm taking some liberties with the phrasing of this, but it should adhere to what the Dominion rules has to say about playing Treasure cards.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:38:29 am by Kudasai »
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #401 on: October 24, 2018, 03:46:47 am »
0



       


These mockups were rushed a bit, so names and artwork may change on some of these.
Great stuff! Now the obvious use is setting aside Victory cards which makes engine player slightly weaker and Alt-VP stronger. Kinda nice to win with a lot of Duchies instead of an exploding engine for a change.
Looters become relatively weaker although it is hard to get enough Stores to withstand a CUltist onslaught.
Pioneer looks like the best defense against Cursers and Storehouse is a non-interactive version of a card like Forager, i.e. you have to get rid of good stuff to build it up.

Yeah, I'm nervous this alters too much of the game mechanics. I'm not sure if I like that Stores can block attacks. Might change it to cards gained on a player's turn. It could be fine if I end up bumping some of the card costs. Wasting expensive Stores on Ruins and Curses might not be worth it at some card costs. Would appreciate any insights or thoughts you have on Attacks with these.

Thanks for the comments!
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Kudasai

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #402 on: October 24, 2018, 03:52:59 am »
0

Marketeers are Buy tokens, i.e. you can use them during your Buy phase for +1 Buy.



Man, there are some tough guys in the streets, they can easily handle enemy Pirates and Bandits.

Beyond stuff like this happening beyond your turn, worst case is getting the Marketeer at the end of the turn, best case is something like sifting through the card several times per turn. Perhaps this is too weak and could get away with +2 Marketeers.

Interesting! You can open $4/$4 with this on the board if you don't mind the somewhat-dead Slum Market getting in the way. At least you'll have all the +Buys you'll need for those epic 3-pile endings.

Hard to gauge the strength of all these new mechanics, but Slum Market seems fine at +1 Marketeer. This encourages players to get it earlier to amass more +Buys. Giving +2 Marketeers I think would make this aspect trivial.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 03:54:01 am by Kudasai »
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #403 on: October 24, 2018, 04:56:40 am »
0

Obviously, Drawers are tokens that can be used for +1 card at any point during your turn.
Without wanting to diss your simple and good design, in my opinion Drawers are the most dubious of the three vanilla tokens as draw is something you rarely want to save. Early in the game cycling is very strong so the main strategic application of them is probably in the endgame, e.g. to set up a megaturn.

No worries, I mainly made it for the pun.

My pun was better.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #404 on: October 24, 2018, 05:01:11 am »
0



Quote
Ledger
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
$3
Take @3.  You may trash this.
-
When you gain or trash this, take 2 Creditors

You may spend a Creditor to ignore the effect of Debt when buying one card.

An earlier version of the card lacked "You may trash this."
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:47:13 pm by spiralstaircase »
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Asper

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #405 on: October 24, 2018, 07:59:17 am »
+3

I'll admit, this contest brought more interesting concepts than I would have imagined. I'm going to stay in the watcher's row, but it's interesting to see these.

Stores:
Having experimented with several effects that can keep Victory cards out of your deck (Lady-in-Waiting, Glory), I would like to remark that these abilities can be crazy good and should be balanced with utmost care. Opening two Lumber Camps, for instance, will allow you to gain more than your share of the Provinces before having to worry about them clogging your deck. The thing with all such abilities is that they don't force you to build a stable deck. Any deck that can reliably produce 8$ if left alone will now be able to win. A general concern is, if the Victory gaining is too strong, it might overshadow other aspects of the card. All that said, however, I think Kudasai did a pretty amazing job at balancing these, especially for a first post laying out the concept. I feel most of the things I wrote here have been considered already, but I still felt like pointing them out for others to consider. VP gaining is going to be a huge aspect of these cards, I think.

Luck:
Those are cute, but I'd like them better if they just kept the cards out of the suffle. Actually, that's how I had read them when I started writing this post, and I just now realized I had misread. Such tokens would actually be rather similar to Stores, just a bit more fiddly - but with the added advantage that you have to produce them again and again, so the more cards you want to keep out, the more you need to produce. That diminishes the issue of one Pioneer setting up your uncorruptible engine... They can be used rather similar to Freezing tokens, too, and I like how you added them as a drawback for e.g. Woodland Witch. The balance can probably still be improved on some of these, though.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 08:00:45 am by Asper »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #406 on: October 24, 2018, 08:29:56 am »
0



Quote
Ledger
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
$3
Take @3
-
When you gain or trash this, take 2 Creditors

You may spend a Creditor to ignore the effect of Debt when buying one card.
To be clear, this means that you can buy a card when you have debt, not that you can buy a card that has debt in its cost for free, right?
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Holunder9

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #407 on: October 24, 2018, 08:39:33 am »
0

Quote
Ledger
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
$3
Take @3
-
When you gain or trash this, take 2 Creditors

You may spend a Creditor to ignore the effect of Debt when buying one card.
Looks to me like a half Capital without the extra Buy that you can use twice before it becomes dead. Pretty weak.


Yeah, I'm nervous this alters too much of the game mechanics. I'm not sure if I like that Stores can block attacks. Might change it to cards gained on a player's turn. It could be fine if I end up bumping some of the card costs. Wasting expensive Stores on Ruins and Curses might not be worth it at some card costs. Would appreciate any insights or thoughts you have on Attacks with these.
I'll just comment on Pioneer as I think that the two terminals are unlikely to be overpowered.

Mountebank is probably the most interesting Attack. If you Store a Copper you can use Pioneer as Copper trasher, if you Store a Curse you can use it as Curse trasher. The tricky question is, what do you do when you have set aside a Curse, still have Stores and get Cursed. Do you want to use the Store immediately to increase the draw power of your deck at the cost of permanent -1VP or do you decide to trash it later at the cost of a temporarily clogged deck?
This leads to interesting play around junkers and I wouldn't worry about it.

As Asper has pointed out, greening is the key issue. Pioneer can be read as a cantrip that gains  set aside Laboratories which land in your deck once you green.
That seems prett good, compared to something like Tormentor which is terminal and gains something that is weaker than a Lab under particular conditions (with the only advantage that the Imps is immediately yours).

On the other hand, it does nothing while you do not green yet, it only sets up future drawing power. So it will not shine in engines which want draw power long before greening but in stable money decks. You can e.g. imagine a deck with nothing but Chapel, Pioneer, a Gold, 2 Silvers and a Copper that reliably gains a Province per turn.

So the meta question is, do you want a card that is relatively best for money and Alt-VP decks and don't mind that it is extremly strong under such circumstances or do you want to tone it down some? If the latter is the case, I'd consider not making it a cantrip (I guess it'd be OK if it were non-terminal).
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #408 on: October 24, 2018, 08:45:17 am »
0

As Asper has pointed out, greening is the key issue. Pioneer can be read as a cantrip that gains  set aside Laboratories which land in your deck once you green.
That seems prett good, compared to something like Tormentor which is terminal and gains something that is weaker than a Lab under particular conditions (with the only advantage that the Imps is immediately yours).
Ummm... I'm sorry, how is Pioneer gaining Laboratories?
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Holunder9

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #409 on: October 24, 2018, 08:51:28 am »
0

As Asper has pointed out, greening is the key issue. Pioneer can be read as a cantrip that gains  set aside Laboratories which land in your deck once you green.
That seems prett good, compared to something like Tormentor which is terminal and gains something that is weaker than a Lab under particular conditions (with the only advantage that the Imps is immediately yours).
Ummm... I'm sorry, how is Pioneer gaining Laboratories?
I said that it can be read, i.e. interpreted as a cantrip that gains Labs which land in your deck after you gain a Victory card.
A dead card in your deck decreases your draw power by one per shuffle, Lab increases it by one. Spending a Store to set aside a Victory card increases your draw power by one per shuffle as well so it is similar although not identical to having gained a Laboratory.
Island does something similar and it is also compared to Laboratory and discussed in depth in this thread.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #410 on: October 24, 2018, 08:59:01 am »
0

You may spend a Creditor to ignore the effect of Debt when buying one card.
To be clear, this means that you can buy a card when you have debt, not that you can buy a card that has debt in its cost for free, right?

Right.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #411 on: October 24, 2018, 09:01:13 am »
0

Looks to me like a half Capital without the extra Buy that you can use twice before it becomes dead. Pretty weak.

On its own, yes.  In multiples, or with other debt cost cards, maybe you can do more with it.

I did wonder whether it would be better priced at $3.  What do you think?
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #412 on: October 24, 2018, 09:28:07 am »
0

As Asper has pointed out, greening is the key issue. Pioneer can be read as a cantrip that gains  set aside Laboratories which land in your deck once you green.
That seems prett good, compared to something like Tormentor which is terminal and gains something that is weaker than a Lab under particular conditions (with the only advantage that the Imps is immediately yours).
Ummm... I'm sorry, how is Pioneer gaining Laboratories?
I said that it can be read, i.e. interpreted as a cantrip that gains Labs which land in your deck after you gain a Victory card.
A dead card in your deck decreases your draw power by one per shuffle, Lab increases it by one. Spending a Store to set aside a Victory card increases your draw power by one per shuffle as well so it is similar although not identical to having gained a Laboratory.
Island does something similar and it is also compared to Laboratory and discussed in depth in this thread.
Thanks for the explanation.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #413 on: October 24, 2018, 09:35:42 am »
0

On the other hand, it does nothing while you do not green yet, it only sets up future drawing power. So it will not shine in engines which want draw power long before greening but in stable money decks. You can e.g. imagine a deck with nothing but Chapel, Pioneer, a Gold, 2 Silvers and a Copper that reliably gains a Province per turn.
Note: Like that, the deck you describe is not fully reliable as it is 6 cards and it may be that you don't draw the Pioneer. But still, you can probably get to the proper Golden deck in ~8 turns and that is pretty fast.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #414 on: October 24, 2018, 09:53:14 am »
0

I updated the Plot token description so that it makes you discard one plot token per $2, 2 debt, or potion something costs. Making it be $2 instead of $3 should weaken the Tokens, but I like this one better, and it also affects debt and potion cost cards now.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #415 on: October 24, 2018, 10:12:18 am »
0

Fly-Eagles-Fly, regarding your signature, what's FEF?
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #416 on: October 24, 2018, 10:17:27 am »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly, regarding your signature, what's FEF?
What some people call me on the chess.com Variants forum. I was just wondering if anyone here also plays games there.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #417 on: October 24, 2018, 12:48:03 pm »
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Looks to me like a half Capital without the extra Buy that you can use twice before it becomes dead. Pretty weak.

On its own, yes.  In multiples, or with other debt cost cards, maybe you can do more with it.

I did wonder whether it would be better priced at $3.  What do you think?

I've added "You may trash this", so that (a) you can use it more times, and (b) it doesn't become a dead card.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #418 on: October 24, 2018, 01:03:39 pm »
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Looks to me like a half Capital without the extra Buy that you can use twice before it becomes dead. Pretty weak.

On its own, yes.  In multiples, or with other debt cost cards, maybe you can do more with it.

I did wonder whether it would be better priced at $3.  What do you think?

I've added "You may trash this", so that (a) you can use it more times, and (b) it doesn't become a dead card.
I like it much better now.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #419 on: October 24, 2018, 01:30:53 pm »
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Just added Alliance to my post, has a Catacombs-like draw and gives you Plot tokens for drawing good cards. I really don't know how balanced it is, but it seems like a good idea.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #420 on: October 24, 2018, 08:00:46 pm »
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Luck:
Those are cute, but I'd like them better if they just kept the cards out of the suffle. Actually, that's how I had read them when I started writing this post, and I just now realized I had misread. Such tokens would actually be rather similar to Stores, just a bit more fiddly - but with the added advantage that you have to produce them again and again, so the more cards you want to keep out, the more you need to produce. That diminishes the issue of one Pioneer setting up your uncorruptible engine... They can be used rather similar to Freezing tokens, too, and I like how you added them as a drawback for e.g. Woodland Witch. The balance can probably still be improved on some of these, though.

Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I like the bottom-of-your-deck implementation better. If they kept cards out of the shuffle they would feel too similar to the Ice tokens. I was seriously considering letting them top deck cards instead, but, well, top-of-your-deck stuff has already been done a bazillion times. I was trying to come up with something that wasn't just an ability that cards already had made into a token. There are also other subtle strategic things you can do with this besides making bad cards miss the shuffle, like making it easier to draw your deck if you're capable of drawing it, and the ability to order the cards might also come in handy.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #421 on: October 25, 2018, 02:15:12 am »
0







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Asper

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #422 on: October 25, 2018, 04:17:01 am »
0

Luck:
Those are cute, but I'd like them better if they just kept the cards out of the suffle. Actually, that's how I had read them when I started writing this post, and I just now realized I had misread. Such tokens would actually be rather similar to Stores, just a bit more fiddly - but with the added advantage that you have to produce them again and again, so the more cards you want to keep out, the more you need to produce. That diminishes the issue of one Pioneer setting up your uncorruptible engine... They can be used rather similar to Freezing tokens, too, and I like how you added them as a drawback for e.g. Woodland Witch. The balance can probably still be improved on some of these, though.

Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I like the bottom-of-your-deck implementation better. If they kept cards out of the shuffle they would feel too similar to the Ice tokens. I was seriously considering letting them top deck cards instead, but, well, top-of-your-deck stuff has already been done a bazillion times. I was trying to come up with something that wasn't just an ability that cards already had made into a token. There are also other subtle strategic things you can do with this besides making bad cards miss the shuffle, like making it easier to draw your deck if you're capable of drawing it, and the ability to order the cards might also come in handy.
Right, but to me, missing the shuffle is already a subtle strategical thing. A lot of players won't even consider this, and it actually stops mattering when you draw your deck - at least that's how I see it. But it's your entry, not mine.

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #423 on: October 25, 2018, 06:18:54 am »
+1

Flea Market
Action - $2
+1 Bargain

Bargains: When you gain a card, you may spend a token from your Bargain mat to gain a non-victory card costing less than it.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #424 on: October 25, 2018, 07:28:44 am »
0








The design is very interesting, but just letting you know the contest was to use the coin tokens that are used for Coffers (and will be used for Villagers) for another spendable function, not just any new tokens.
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