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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 414459 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7150 on: September 22, 2020, 06:56:19 pm »
+1

Challenge #88: Use all the design space!

This card is double-sided. Both sides have the same text/image. There is no back to this card. This card shuffles as normally.



Quote
Eager Hound - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Reveal the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back in any order.
-
When no Actions are resolving, if this is the top card of your deck, you may play it.

This is a great concept.

How about "this may be played from the top of your deck (as it would be from your hand)". It is a nerf as you can't play an otherwise terminal card non terminally, but it is more robust rules wise.

Also "this card shuffles as normally" can't just be written in the rules for different backed cards. You will see the different back and a skilled shuffler can manipulate it. Stash was designed around that concept. It may be fine to just assume it has the effect of Stash when you're costing it without putting it in the card text.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 07:02:58 pm by NoMoreFun »
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7151 on: September 22, 2020, 07:50:53 pm »
+1

Challenge #88: Use all the design space!

This card is double-sided. Both sides have the same text/image. There is no back to this card. This card shuffles as normally.



Quote
Eager Hound - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Reveal the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back in any order.
-
When no Actions are resolving, if this is the top card of your deck, you may play it.

Another in a series of Dogs that do interesting things! It sifts (the dog digs?) to help you set up other Eager Hounds to trigger. This card can even be played during an Opponents turn, your opponent minions you and you get lucky and a dog is on top of your deck.

In reality, those cases don't happen much. You want some help to trigger these dogs. Cartographer, Courtyard, probably some other card that begins with a C to all can help you set this up. If you overload on Eager Hounds to get lucky, well, just know that terminal +2 cards isn't a great card to stuff your deck with.

The bottom line is to prevent it from being played in the middle of actions that have you reveal cards from your deck, which is confusing. So, after an Action is resolved, at the start of your turn, if this card is on top (you will see it because it's double-sided), then you get to play it!

Open to feedback. This originally was a cantrip that allowed you to play Action cards when played (like a village). But this got complicated quick. So I simplified it to a terminal draw. I like the price point, but is the sifting slightly too strong? Should I change it to 1 card sifting instead? Not sure. I could price it 2 without absolutely no self-synergy (no sifting) as well. Not sure what is best.
Should this be a reaction?

You could make this an Action-Reaction and have the bottom worded as "Directly after any player finishes resolving an Action card, you may play this from the top of your deck." I think that would give you the same benefits and simplifies the wording a bit. (Also I think it should be a Reaction.)
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7152 on: September 23, 2020, 12:55:15 am »
0

I think it is a $5. You can safely get two copies and converting played Actions into Imps is a pretty good ability; Exorcist can only do this with stuff from hand.
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7153 on: September 23, 2020, 02:20:46 am »
+2

Challenge #88: Use all the design space!

This card is double-sided. Both sides have the same text/image. There is no back to this card. This card shuffles as normally.



Nice idea, but I'm not sure I get it entirely. If you shuffle a double-sided card "as normal," would you add an FAQ stating, "In games using this, players are instructed to close their eyes or stare at the ceiling while shuffling"? (In my experience, most Dominion players are warm, friendly, honest people who would never cheat intentionally, of course; but it might be difficult not to accidentally notice where a double-sided card was in the shuffle and consciously or unconsciously be influenced.)

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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7154 on: September 23, 2020, 02:47:13 am »
+1

One way to avoid any intentional or unconscious manipulation of the shuffle is that after shuffling, the player to the right splits the shuffled deck randomly and puts the bottom cards on the top.
This is a common practice in the card games I know.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7155 on: September 23, 2020, 03:41:22 am »
+2

One way to avoid any intentional or unconscious manipulation of the shuffle is that after shuffling, the player to the right splits the shuffled deck randomly and puts the bottom cards on the top.
This is a common practice in the card games I know.
Random splitting isn't really random. If the special-backed card is on top prior to the splitting, then that affects how the player to the right wants to split the deck.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7156 on: September 23, 2020, 03:49:00 am »
+1

One way to avoid any intentional or unconscious manipulation of the shuffle is that after shuffling, the player to the right splits the shuffled deck randomly and puts the bottom cards on the top.
This is a common practice in the card games I know.
Random splitting isn't really random. If the special-backed card is on top prior to the splitting, then that affects how the player to the right wants to split the deck.

Well yes, but it comes pretty close with a simple procedure.
One could argue that when the double-sided card is on top after shuffling, before splitting, is part of the feature of the card that gives a certain disadvantage as the other player has an additional option.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7157 on: September 23, 2020, 04:06:21 am »
+1

@Eager Hound: I think you shouldn't reveal cards when you don't need to. "Look at" works fine.
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7158 on: September 23, 2020, 12:52:47 pm »
0

One way to avoid any intentional or unconscious manipulation of the shuffle is that after shuffling, the player to the right splits the shuffled deck randomly and puts the bottom cards on the top.
This is a common practice in the card games I know.
Random splitting isn't really random. If the special-backed card is on top prior to the splitting, then that affects how the player to the right wants to split the deck.

Well yes, but it comes pretty close with a simple procedure.
One could argue that when the double-sided card is on top after shuffling, before splitting, is part of the feature of the card that gives a certain disadvantage as the other player has an additional option.

My point is that it's impractical. Whether it's your bias or the bias of another player who shuffles or cuts your deck, it seems to lie outside the spirit and dynamic of Dominion generally. (Involving a second player would also slow the game down.)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7159 on: September 23, 2020, 01:18:51 pm »
+3

Challenge #88: Use all the design space!

This card is double-sided. Both sides have the same text/image. There is no back to this card. This card shuffles as normally.



Quote
Eager Hound - Action - $3
+2 Cards
Reveal the top 2 cards of your deck. Discard any and put the rest back in any order.
-
When no Actions are resolving, if this is the top card of your deck, you may play it.

Another in a series of Dogs that do interesting things! It sifts (the dog digs?) to help you set up other Eager Hounds to trigger. This card can even be played during an Opponents turn, your opponent minions you and you get lucky and a dog is on top of your deck.

In reality, those cases don't happen much. You want some help to trigger these dogs. Cartographer, Courtyard, probably some other card that begins with a C to all can help you set this up. If you overload on Eager Hounds to get lucky, well, just know that terminal +2 cards isn't a great card to stuff your deck with.

The bottom line is to prevent it from being played in the middle of actions that have you reveal cards from your deck, which is confusing. So, after an Action is resolved, at the start of your turn, if this card is on top (you will see it because it's double-sided), then you get to play it!

Open to feedback. This originally was a cantrip that allowed you to play Action cards when played (like a village). But this got complicated quick. So I simplified it to a terminal draw. I like the price point, but is the sifting slightly too strong? Should I change it to 1 card sifting instead? Not sure. I could price it 2 without absolutely no self-synergy (no sifting) as well. Not sure what is best.
Should this be a reaction?

How do you see shuffling working with this? You say it shuffles as normal, but are you requiring people to shuffle with their eyes closed, or while avoiding looking down? As long as you can see your card backs in the deck while you are shuffling, it's basically impossible to avoid cheating, intentionally or unintentionally.

*Edit* I see now that there was already some discussion around this. But I would disagree that it takes a "skilled manipulator" to take advantage of it... just any person who is shuffling has to decide when to consider the shuffle as being done... if they can see whether the card on top of the deck is Eager Hound or not, it's impossible for them to not allow that to play a role in their decision of whether to shuffle another time or not.

*Edit again* I already experience this when playing in-person with my unsleeved sets, where basic cards are noticeably more worn than kingdom cards. I tend to avoid looking at the cards while shuffling, but it adds an extra difficulty to the process. It would be much worse with a 2-sided card.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 02:51:05 pm by GendoIkari »
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7160 on: September 23, 2020, 01:24:32 pm »
+2

Construct (Event, $4)

If you don't have Train, take Train; otherwise, flip over Train.

Train (State)
The first time you gain a card during each of your turns, put it here.

Reinforce (State)
At the start of each of your turns, put a card from here into your hand.

Train/Reinforce is a double-sided State card, which flips over whenever Construct is bought. Train allows you to build up a collection of cards, which Reinforce can then feed into your hand/deck, one at a time.

Cards on the Train/Reinforce card are not part of your deck, so don't leave any Victory cards there!
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Carline

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7161 on: September 23, 2020, 08:28:19 pm »
+3




 

 

 

Master is a Kingdom card.

Novice Cards are non supply double faced cards:

- Young Sorceress/Young Saboteur

- Young Miner/Young Bureaucrat

- Young Merchant/Young Smith

Setup: Put the Novice Cards on the table with Young Sorceress, Young Miner and Young Merchant faced up.

I don't know for sure:

- If is a good cost for Master.

- Where to put the Attack type: in novice cards, in Master or both. (Edited: as said, it's better in Master)

Feedbacks are always welcome!


Edited to add Attack type to Master and remove from Novice Cards
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 01:07:25 am by Carline »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7162 on: September 23, 2020, 09:36:56 pm »
+1

<Master & Novices>
I like the idea, but I think Master should cost $5 and have the attack type.
It would be fine at $4 if there were only 1 pair of attack novices with the pair of non-attack novices.
EDIT: I take that back. I was thinking you get the one and everyone else gets the other two. So, I think it's okay at $4 as it is, but I'd like it better if it always did something for the person playing it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 09:47:18 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7163 on: September 23, 2020, 09:56:00 pm »
+1

<Master & Novices>
I like the idea, but I think Master should cost $5 and have the attack type.
It would be fine at $4 if there were only 1 pair of attack novices with the pair of non-attack novices.
I take that back. I was thinking you get the one and everyone else gets the other two. So, I think it's okay at $4 as it is, but I'd like it better if it always did something for the person playing it.
(Double posting because you liked the post while I was editing it, so I wanted to let you know I edited it.)

I think if you just add +$1 for the player of the Master, then it would probably work at $5 cost. Or +$2 and remove the "if it's your turn" options on the Young Smith and Young Merchant.

Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7164 on: September 23, 2020, 10:58:06 pm »
+2

Master should have the Attack type. As worded currently, the opponents being affected by the Attacks are also the ones playing them, which means that there's no way to block the attack.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7165 on: September 23, 2020, 11:43:16 pm »
0




Clock starts out on the first side. When you take the Clock, it stays on whichever side it's on. If you take it while it's on the second side, you won't be able to trigger its effect until the next turn (unless you turn it over with the Clockmaker) because "the first time you play an Action card" will have already passed this turn by then.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 01:20:14 am by Gubump »
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7166 on: September 24, 2020, 12:52:02 am »
+1

This is a bit crazy idea I am struggling to formulate. An Event which has a card to the other side

Quote
Lair
$4 - Event
Trash a Treasure card costing $3 or more. If you did, flip this over and gain this.
Quote
Dragon
$6 - Action - Attack
+1 Action  +2 Cards  +3 Spoils
Each other player trashes a non-Victory card from hand costing $3 or more, or reveals their hand if they can't.
When this is discarded from play, flip it over and leave available as the Lair event.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7167 on: September 24, 2020, 12:55:14 am »
+1

I'm going to be traveling on the weekend, so I'm afraid I won't get to the judging until early Monday. You've got until then for new submissions/updates.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7168 on: September 24, 2020, 01:24:53 am »
0

This is a bit crazy idea I am struggling to formulate. An Event which has a card to the other side

Quote
Lair
$4 - Event
Trash a Treasure card costing $3 or more. If you did, flip this over and gain this.
Quote
Dragon
$6 - Action - Attack
+1 Action  +2 Cards  +3 Spoils
Each other player trashes a non-Victory card from hand costing $3 or more, or reveals their hand if they can't.
When this is discarded from play, flip it over and leave available as the Lair event.

Am I correct in assuming there's only one copy of this? If so, this gives too strong an advantage to the first player imo, since they'll be more likely to have the first opportunity to get the Dragon.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7169 on: September 24, 2020, 01:50:43 am »
0

I don't think that the Dragon attack shouldn't be thronable. If you KC it you leave others with a hand of two coppers or something similar. I also think that three spoils is too much.
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grep

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7170 on: September 24, 2020, 11:05:35 am »
+1

Quote
Lair
$4 - Event
Trash a Treasure card costing $3 or more. If you did, flip this over and gain this.
Quote
Dragon
$6 - Action - Attack
+1 Action  +2 Cards  +3 Spoils
Each other player trashes a non-Victory card from hand costing $3 or more, or reveals their hand if they can't.
When this is discarded from play, flip it over and leave available as the Lair event.
Am I correct in assuming there's only one copy of this? If so, this gives too strong an advantage to the first player imo, since they'll be more likely to have the first opportunity to get the Dragon.
It requires $4 + a spare Silver to be reached, which comes late enough to make the first player advantage negligible.
I don't think that the Dragon attack shouldn't be thronable. If you KC it you leave others with a hand of two coppers or something similar. I also think that three spoils is too much.
I agree, throning might be quite devastating, will probably replace the hand reducing attack with something similar to Giant/Knights/Locusts to ensure that the opponent's hand is not completely destroyed and they have a chance to grab the dragon from the lair.
Three spoils are just fine, comparing to Pillage.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7171 on: September 24, 2020, 12:07:56 pm »
0

It requires $4 + a spare Silver to be reached, which comes late enough to make the first player advantage negligible.
Could get ugly with Cursed Gold/Lucky Coin though.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7172 on: September 24, 2020, 04:57:15 pm »
0

This is a great concept.

How about "this may be played from the top of your deck (as it would be from your hand)". It is a nerf as you can't play an otherwise terminal card non terminally, but it is more robust rules wise.

Thank you! I love your idea a lot, but I think the non-terminality is one of the cool parts of this card.


You could make this an Action-Reaction and have the bottom worded as "Directly after any player finishes resolving an Action card, you may play this from the top of your deck." I think that would give you the same benefits and simplifies the wording a bit. (Also I think it should be a Reaction.)

Love it! I'm taking that wording!

@Eager Hound: I think you shouldn't reveal cards when you don't need to. "Look at" works fine.
Thanks for this! I'm actually going to remove look at too (no one gets to see), in order to speed it up and weaken it a little.


Lots of people had great discussion about the shuffle problems, and I thank each of you for your input.


Also "this card shuffles as normally" can't just be written in the rules for different backed cards. You will see the different back and a skilled shuffler can manipulate it. Stash was designed around that concept. It may be fine to just assume it has the effect of Stash when you're costing it without putting it in the card text.


Nice idea, but I'm not sure I get it entirely. If you shuffle a double-sided card "as normal," would you add an FAQ stating, "In games using this, players are instructed to close their eyes or stare at the ceiling while shuffling"? (In my experience, most Dominion players are warm, friendly, honest people who would never cheat intentionally, of course; but it might be difficult not to accidentally notice where a double-sided card was in the shuffle and consciously or unconsciously be influenced.)

One way to avoid any intentional or unconscious manipulation of the shuffle is that after shuffling, the player to the right splits the shuffled deck randomly and puts the bottom cards on the top.
This is a common practice in the card games I know.
Random splitting isn't really random. If the special-backed card is on top prior to the splitting, then that affects how the player to the right wants to split the deck.

Well yes, but it comes pretty close with a simple procedure.
One could argue that when the double-sided card is on top after shuffling, before splitting, is part of the feature of the card that gives a certain disadvantage as the other player has an additional option.

How do you see shuffling working with this? You say it shuffles as normal, but are you requiring people to shuffle with their eyes closed, or while avoiding looking down? As long as you can see your card backs in the deck while you are shuffling, it's basically impossible to avoid cheating, intentionally or unintentionally.

*Edit* I see now that there was already some discussion around this. But I would disagree that it takes a "skilled manipulator" to take advantage of it... just any person who is shuffling has to decide when to consider the shuffle as being done... if they can see whether the card on top of the deck is Eager Hound or not, it's impossible for them to not allow that to play a role in their decision of whether to shuffle another time or not.

*Edit again* I already experience this when playing in-person with my unsleeved sets, where basic cards are noticeably more worn than kingdom cards. I tend to avoid looking at the cards while shuffling, but it adds an extra difficulty to the process. It would be much worse with a 2-sided card.

The direction I'm going with is to have the player to your right shuffle for you. This shouldn't slow down the game too much since it's the same number of shuffles. If the person to the right wants to shuffle in a "cheaty" way that leads to terrible placement of those cards... that's fine. There's plenty of deck-topping cards that allow you to still use this as a double lab. It just takes more work.
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anordinaryman

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7173 on: September 24, 2020, 05:04:04 pm »
+1

Challenge 88 Updated Submission

This card is double-sided. Both sides have the same text/image. There is no back to this card. In games using Eager Hound, the player to your right shuffles your deck when you need it shuffled. The intention of Dominion is that shuffling is random. If the other player does psuedo-random such that if they notice that Eager Hound is the 6th card in your deck or something, and they want to shuffle again, that is allowed. Think of this sort of like a lazy way that the player to the right can make the Eager Hounds not placed well, in a subtle way. If you are playing with a master card-manipulator like Ricky Jay, you were probably doomed even without Eager Hound.



Quote
Eager Hound - Action - Reaction - $3
+2 Cards
Discard up to 2 cards from the top of your deck
-
Directly after any player finishes resolving an Action card, you may play this from the top of your deck.

You may find your Eager Hounds not behaving so well since your shuffle luck is in the hands (pun intended) of your opponent. They still have the opportunity to help themselves line up, and this card behaves great with a card like Artisan.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #7174 on: September 24, 2020, 10:06:03 pm »
0

I like this new version of Eager Hound.

I have added a shuffling rule to my card's FAQ here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18987.msg853907#msg853907
It is: When you shuffle, put the Two-bit(s) anywhere in the top half of your deck.
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