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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 382936 times)

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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6575 on: August 06, 2020, 05:57:37 pm »
+1

Does this qualify?
The effect is REALLY big.



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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6576 on: August 06, 2020, 06:44:59 pm »
+2



A simple project for this week. Strong sifter, but it lowers your handsize.
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6577 on: August 06, 2020, 10:18:33 pm »
+1



A simple project for this week. Strong sifter, but it lowers your handsize.
Not only is this really really good, but also will take way too long to resolve.
For reference, playing warehouse twice gives +6, discard six, so this is almost as good as a free double warehouse each turn
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6578 on: August 06, 2020, 11:04:37 pm »
0

Tenshukaku (Japanese Throne Room)
cost $5 - Action
You may play an Action card from your hand twice.
If you have at least 3 Tenshukakus in play, replay that Action card.


Masterpiece has a big number, doesn't it? Its variant.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 11:05:46 pm by majiponi »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6579 on: August 07, 2020, 12:51:42 am »
0



A simple project for this week. Strong sifter, but it lowers your handsize.
Not only is this really really good, but also will take way too long to resolve.
For reference, playing warehouse twice gives +6, discard six, so this is almost as good as a free double warehouse each turn
Warehouse net draws 2, not 3; two Warehouses thus reduce handsome by 2.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6580 on: August 07, 2020, 01:05:18 am »
+2

Does this qualify?
The effect is REALLY big.



Please move to the "Really Bad Card Ideas" thread  ;D
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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6581 on: August 07, 2020, 07:44:40 am »
0

Does this qualify?
The effect is REALLY big.



That's definitely one way to win, I suppose Lord Rattington would have to take over in these games?
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6582 on: August 08, 2020, 10:37:03 pm »
+2



Quote
Arboretum

At the beginning of each of your turns, you may gain an Action card costing up to $5 to your hand if you have no tokens here. Otherwise, remove a token.

-

When you buy this, put 5 tokens here.

8 Debt
Project

An idea I originally presented in the variants channel of the discord server. I've only had a chance to test it once since then but it at least confirmed that these numbers are OK.
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pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6583 on: August 09, 2020, 06:36:57 am »
0

Arboretum

At the beginning of each of your turns, you may gain an Action card costing up to $5 to your hand if you have no tokens here. Otherwise, remove a token.
Cool idea. It seems like you would buy it either turn 1 or never. Maybe you could replace the tokens with debt: "If you have no debt, you may gain a card", and then make it cost like 15 debt. That way you could buy it later in the game and still use it.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6584 on: August 09, 2020, 06:55:25 am »
0

I am not so sure. If there is a trasher or some other crucial card, you might very well open with that.
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Rhodos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6585 on: August 09, 2020, 10:42:29 am »
+2

Hey, it's been a while since I participated in this contest.
I will try to enter more often now. Here is my entry for this week:



At first look, it does not satisfy the contest's conditions. But if you think of it, with the possibility of triple any non-Victory card you like, you can go big pretty fast. Just think of Platinum or King's Court, to name some examples.
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6586 on: August 09, 2020, 08:13:34 pm »
+1

I will extend the deadline by an extra 12 hours to account for the fact that I was out of town over the weekend and haven't had much of a chance to look at the new entries. So this is an 18 hour warning.
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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6587 on: August 10, 2020, 03:06:40 pm »
+2

Does this qualify?
The effect is REALLY big.



We (now just I) play tested this a few times last night, and it turns out, both 2P and multiway, it leads to some very short games.
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6588 on: August 10, 2020, 03:38:48 pm »
+4

Okay, time to get to this. I was able to playtest some of the cards last week, but unfortunately I was busy over the weekend and today so I was not able to playtest the later entries. I'll try to keep things fair despite this.

Inquisition by pubby
This feels surprisingly balanced for how potentially nutty it looks. Its closest relative is Camel Train, which is way easier to get ahold of, but more costly to use. The condition of having no cards in Exile makes it a bit of a gamble; you can spring for expensive cards but it's going to be a long time before you can use it again, or you can grab some cheaper cards and be able to get Inquisition again in a few turns. A comparison to Pilgrimage can also be drawn; Pilgrimage is essentially $8 and 2 buys for whatever 3 non-Victory cards you want, whereas this is $6 and 1 buy for the same with the added requirement that you have to gain a copy of each before you get it from this. I like it.

Colorburst by NoMoreFun
So this is nuts. I sure did bring it on myself with this prompt, but oh boy does this make potions into a powerful payload. It certainly biases towards engines, which is interesting, but it also just makes building big really really easy, like if you have a good enough engine you can just add potions until you can buy out everything. It's fun to play with, but it might be frustrating if your opponent collides potions while building and you don't. There's skill to colliding them of course, like Treasure Map, but unlike Treasure Map it does something you actually want in the early and midgame.

Stronghold by silverspawn
In playtesting I never bought this, but admittedly I was playtesting against a not-particularly-strong bot and usually Provinces were enough to win with. Stronghold is, well, it's a victory card. It's almost always another Province pile, and usually better. In fact it pretty much seems like another Colony pile to me. Assuming the decks get big enough, winning the Stronghold split should decide the game. Given that the price tag is so high, it seems pretty unlikely that you would play this that differently than you would play Colonies, except for obviously not getting it if you don't expect your deck to reach at least 30 cards-- like I wouldn't skip trashing probably. I might load up on cheap cantrips I suppose. But a lot of the time I feel like this has a similar flaw to Fairgrounds where specifically building to maximize the score from it is not worth it so you just pick it up when you want some VP and whatever it's worth it's worth.

Sorceror by spineflu
This is brokenly powerful. The price of $4P makes it worse because it's easy to build to hit $4P on your third shuffle and then still miss it, and if your opponent hit it then you just lose. Being able to gain four good cards (Gold is a good card if you're not buying it) while thinning an Estate is absolutely centralizing, it's like Populate but you don't have to build to it. And god help you if there's a $7 in the kingdom... sure I'll take a King's Court and a Province on top of all the other goodies I'm getting.

Uprising by JimJammer
While I was playtesting this I forgot about having 20 in a pile and I only remembered it after I no longer had the time, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. This just does nothing unless it does everything, and I think the type of deck where you actually have use for it is like no thinning, no draw, no fast money strategy, good villages, and a particular reason to want your whole deck in your hand. And even then you need to waste enough turns getting Uprisings so that you can actually have one at the bottom of your shuffle. Like... maybe I can use this for a Bridge or Horn of Plenty megaturn? But that's still quite slow, and outside of the specific situation mentioned it seems pretty useless.

Bequest by mandioca15
Pretty interesting given the question of whether to use it in the opening or not. It has a similar vibe to Seize the Day where you use it to pounce on something important, but less impactful. (Unless there's no +Buy in which case Seize is just sad.) I don't have a ton to say about this; it's nice, but a little dull, and it does feel kinda bad to use this for just +$1 to open with a $5, though there are surely situations where that's right. I do like stuff that gives more opening options though.

Warband by Xen3k
Top part is pretty cool, though it could probably benefit from the Sea Hag restriction to keep Ruins from stacking up in multiplayer. I don't really get why the bottom half can give you free Provinces, though. Like doesn't that seem a little unbalanced to you? Gaining free Provinces is pretty good.

Bank Teller by Marpharos
This might be me being dumb, but I really don't see the appeal of this card. I'm paying $5 for a terminal stop card that lets me save a little bit of my money for later in return for... taking on a bunch of debt? It lets you go crazy with coffers but the cost of doing so is so high, I really struggle to see when this would be helpful. It's obviously better when playing bigger treasures, but the more you're able to collide it with big treasures, the more deck control you have and the less useful the coffers are anyway. I bought this a few times for playtesting purposes, but I felt like I was hurting myself each time I played it, rather than helping.

Committee by scott_pilgrim
This is too crazy/situational. I like the idea, but this just becomes bad as soon as there's one bad card on the board. Non-stacking actions like Counting House and Watchtower, forced trashers like Trader and Remake, drivel like Beggar, not to mention that if you play this as the payload for an engine your opponent can just name a draw card which doesn't help you much. I get that some cards are bad on certain boards. But this is bad if any other action in the kingdom is bad, which is just too common.

The Round Table by gambit05
Flexibility is nice. Balance seems pretty off. Wishes are, like, insanely good. There are very few actions that it would be worth giving the opponent a Wish to play a second time, unless I'm trying to end the game (like sure, The Round Table/Bridge can megaturn just like KC/Bridge can, but only a few cards are like that).

Pumpkin King by segura
I would like this more if it could find some way to be useful on money boards. As it is, it pretty much exclusively exists as an engine payload, and a pretty strong one at that although you need to basically already have the engine so it will be frustrating to build with. It seems pretty narrow in its use cases; you need to have at least two cards played before it for it to really be useful at all, and really at least three for it to be good, so you need to reliably be able to play that many actions. And, like, it's fine when you are? I wouldn't go out of my way to add more uniques like I would for Horn of Plenty or maybe Menagerie. And it's terrible when you aren't.

Investor by faust
This is quite a cool card. It reminds me of stuff like Rats in how it can wreck your deck if you're not really careful, but it can be pretty strong when played right. I tried playing an engine with Investor payload, and it was not overpowered or anything, but it was pretty inconsistent, and you really have to take care to add the Investor(s) late enough that you can just stop building (unless you have gainers). Quite an interesting card, and close enough in the realm of balanced to make me not hate it.

Fountain of Tears by grep
You know what the problem with Beggar is? That it doesn't give you enough Coppers. I'm sure if Beggar gave you even more Coppers then more people would buy it! :P Jokes aside, I don't really see the appeal of this outside of a few combos that people have mentioned (Gardens, Guildhall, arguably Triumph, arguably Monastery). Gaining Coppers is just... not something I'd like to be doing most of the time. I don't buy Beggar very much and when I do it's usually purely for the reaction.

Mountain by WillhemSchulz
My main complaint with this is similar to my one with Stronghold, only even worse because it costs the same as Province. When I have $8 and want to green, it's easy to determine whether Mountain or Province is going to be better for me. And, it's unlikely that I'll really build my deck around scoring with Mountain-- if I can use actions rather than treasures for my economy, I'd often want to be doing that anyway. There are times I can think of that I would build a deck with fewer treasures so I could score with Mountain, but I feel like that's obviously the right choice on a lot of boards where it's feasible. And then there's also the issue that someone pointed out of no Copper trashing making this garbage. I think Vineyard just does the concept of encouraging Actions better.

Refine/Graveyard Key by anordinaryman
At first glance, Refine looks terrible to me. It's like a bad Rebuild, or a bad Mine, or a bad Graverobber. Sure, you get all three modes for only $4, but it also loses pretty much all the attractive parts of all three (if they can even be said to be attractive in the first place). Graveyard Key, on the other hand, is quite cool at first glance and at least partially saves the weakness of Refine by giving you an incentive to trash good cards for benefit. But even then... you're usually going to be trashing weak actions into stronger actions, and maybe Silvers into Golds? So it's not like the payoff for Graveyard Key is that great, and if people have been thinning their Coppers, then woo, have a bunch of Coppers too. See Fountain of Tears for why that's a bad idea. So I really like Graveyard Key, both mechanically and thematically, and I think the idea has potential, but I don't think the potential is really realized here and both cards end up feeling too limited to me.

Depot by Jonatan Djurachkovitch
I tested the old version of this with +2 Coffers. It was insane. This new version is probably a bit less so, but now it doesn't even need a village to function which is pretty crazy as well. The sifting is gonna end up looking like +7 Cards, discard 6 cards when played from the starting hand, and if you have a couple more Depots in your deck, then now it's a nonterminal +7 Cards, discard 6 cards. Whoa, that's like Forum on steroids, on steroids again, and due to the reaction it self-synergizes even more when you get more of them. This is still very strong, too centralizing I would say, especially when there's any sort of disappearing payload.

Master Plan by X-tra
I tested the old version of this as well (the one that cost $8). It's... well it's like a Royal Carriage. It doesn't play out all that differently from it. To be precise, it's like two Royal Carriages. Horribly awkward as the only village, otherwise a nice thing to pick up one or two of for use when you need it. Since it doesn't self-chain, it isn't as crazy or centralizing as King's Court, but I feel like that means it can almost never be centralizing, unless it is the only village and you REALLY need a village in the kingdom.

Automaton by LordBaphomet
Tracking is gonna be a pain, especially with things like Thrones where you play one Automaton while another one is still resolving and then you have to put the cards back in the right order afterward. This is why Golem and the like discard first, then play. As for the card itself, wow that's strong, and wow that buy restriction is annoying. This is even more centralizing than Grand Market, but it actually makes it harder to buy copies of itself rather than easier, so it's gonna end up being annoying and luck-based a decent portion of the time, while also forcing you to try to hit $6 sans Coppers as much as possible which is already irritating with Grand Market.

Migrate by Aquila
This is a cool take on Seize the Day. Timing of it is interesting, though you probably want to try to save it for a dud if you can. You can also do tricks similar to the ones you can do with Villa/Cavalry, but you have to time it since you can only do them once. In big engine games this is less than impressive, but it still is neat to use it early on to get a boost while building.

Way of the Chupacabra by spheremonk
I gotta hand it to you, this is pretty big. In multiplayer games, it's probably pretty political, especially if you're playing with someone you don't like. First-player advantage in Shelters games is significant, and it also seems like it would be tricky to implement online.

Fortification by D782802859
Holy cow this is good, especially on a 5/2. I'm also with LordBaphomet that this will be really annoying in face-to-face games; City Gate is already bad enough. The $5 price tag gives it a decently steep opportunity cost, but I suspect that it will almost always be worth getting on your second $5, if not your first, barring extremely strong trashing-- you'll immediately start seeing your good cards way more often, and the handsize reduction probably won't matter much given you can dig for your draw cards anyway. (And if there are no draw cards, then the sifting is even more valuable.)

Arboretum by alion8me
We talked about this one in the Discord. Really sad I didn't get a chance to test this one to see how it played out, but my impression was that you buy it turn 2 in a lot of games. Gain to hand is just an enormous flexibility and even if you don't manage to do much with your deck before it kicks in you will just start having good turns super reliably once it does.

Scribe by Rhodos
This technically needs a "you may" for accountability, but that's very minor. As for the effect itself, it's not at all minor, and while it's probably too slow in a money game (by the time you collide it with Gold, you want to be buying Provinces, which this probably hinders), it seems quite strong in an engine game, especially with nonterminal draw like Hunting Party or Laboratory. I think like many of the cards submitted this week this one is niche but very strong when it is viable. That's not bad-- look at Counting House or Scepter for niche-- but it's pretty disappointing when the board isn't high-powered enough to reliably collide your Scribe with your other $5 actions. And in the midgame it's probably pretty RNG dependent as to whether you do get this along with good actions to copy.

--

Don't feel bad if you felt my criticism was harsh-- if I criticized something minor, it was because there were no major flaws for me to talk about. Overall I'm quite happy with how the contest turned out, there were a lot of concepts that were explored in some very cool ways, and I really liked a lot of the ideas even if I didn't end up liking the resulting cards.

Winner: Inquisition by pubby

Runner-up: Investor by faust
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6589 on: August 10, 2020, 04:32:37 pm »
0

Fwiw, I found myself basically agreeing with the top 2 in the last two contests. Although that's without playtesting them.
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gambit05

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6590 on: August 10, 2020, 04:35:46 pm »
0

Congratulations to pubby and faust as the runner up. Indeed 2 very interesting cards that deserve their spot in this round. Many thanks to Something_Smart for all their efforts, including all the testing.

I would like to mention one thing about my submitted card, The Round Table:

Quote
Flexibility is nice. Balance seems pretty off. Wishes are, like, insanely good. There are very few actions that it would be worth giving the opponent a Wish to play a second time, unless I'm trying to end the game (like sure, The Round Table/Bridge can megaturn just like KC/Bridge can, but only a few cards are like that).

Opponents get the benefit when The Round Table plays a card a third time! Thus, it can be always played as a Throne Room without penalty. Otherwise, it is indeed intended for a Megaturn, or when a nasty card can be played along the way. Anyway, thanks.
Edit:
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 04:51:43 pm by gambit05 »
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6591 on: August 10, 2020, 07:22:50 pm »
0

Oh yes, that was bad wording on my part; I did understand the card correctly. I should have written "another time," because the opportunity cost is one extra play for you and one extra Wish for them.
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X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6592 on: August 10, 2020, 07:48:11 pm »
+1

Cool! Thanks for the kind comments about our cards. I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything you've said in your judging. Inquisition, the first card submitted, already looked like a winning candidate in my book when pubby published it.  :D

Only small thing though... I think you forgot to judge majiponi's entry, Tenshukaku.
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Something_Smart

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6593 on: August 11, 2020, 12:02:38 am »
+1

Oh oops, it seems I did. That's not small at all, sorry majiponi!

Tenshukaku by majiponi
This feels like a less swingy King's Court, since it is slower to get started but still pretty crazy once you get enough of them. But it's probably pretty hard to justify getting these unless you already have a pretty big engine. It feels like it snowballs harder once you actually get going, so it's maybe not less swingy at all, it just takes longer for the swing to come out. Strategically I feel like you'd usually only get this when you would get a $5 Throne Room. It doesn't seem obviously unbalanced, but it also doesn't seem really all that fun to play with either-- kinda like Mastermind, if there are good targets for it then you can't really skip it, but it's pretty easy for it to be underwhelming when you're still building.

I do like this card but I wouldn't have put it in the top 2, so it doesn't affect the judging results at all. Once again, my apologies.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6594 on: August 11, 2020, 04:57:42 am »
0

Thanks Something_smart for the judging! I playtested my card (depot) a few times, but I didn't manage to get it to work so great, so I didn't really see its brokenness. Although the card is a lot worse than +7 cards discard 6 cards, since you don't have the full picture, and there is a possibility of having to discard good cards the third time for cards that are maybe worse.
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6595 on: August 11, 2020, 04:59:35 am »
0

Are we going to have judging for the new contest on tuesday, or should we shorten it down this week to get back to sundays? I haven't been on this forun too long, and I don't know if weekday drifting is a common phenomenon
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 06:57:56 am by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6596 on: August 12, 2020, 05:17:00 am »
0

Should faust take over this week? Pubby hasn't posted the new contest for more than 36 hours.
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6597 on: August 12, 2020, 06:02:06 am »
+2

I think I'd wait until the 48 hour mark and then I'd post a new challenge in the interest of keeping things moving, if that's fine by everyone.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

pubby

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6598 on: August 12, 2020, 08:20:03 am »
0

Oops sorry for the delay

Contest #84: Any Number - Create a card or landscape that has the text "any number" in it.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6599 on: August 12, 2020, 09:48:37 am »
0

Submission:

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