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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 337805 times)

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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6275 on: July 10, 2020, 01:09:42 am »
0


If this is still taking from in play, I still think it needs to be $5. The turn you play it, it's a Necropolis, which isn't great. However, on the second turn, it acts as a Lost City that draws into whatever action you set aside last turn! This seems like it's clearly too strong for $4 to me.
That is like saying that Merchant Ship should be a $7 because it is a DoublePeddler on the second turn or that Fishing Village needs to be a $5 because it is a Bazaar on turn 2.
Haunted Woods is even a triple Lab on turn 2, totally overpowered!

If you count the net effects of the card, it is + 2 Actions. It is better than DoubleVillage in one respect, Scheme-ing stuff (well, slightly worse as you are forced to play at the start of the turn) and worse in two respects, being a Duration and thus staying out and not drawing on the turn you play it.

So the crucial question to judge this card is whether a DoubleVillage is a $4 or $5.
If Port would not exist, Id say $5. But I have a hard time imagining a situation in which I would pay $5 for this in a Port Kingdom. Of course this might say more about Port being too strong than the actual card.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 01:12:39 am by segura »
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ConMan

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6276 on: July 10, 2020, 01:48:53 am »
+1

Physician - Action - $6
+1 Action
Play any number of Treasures from your hand. You may spend any amount of $ to trash a card from your hand costing up to the amount spent. Then, draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

I feel like the card name requires some kind of self-trashing ability just to make a "Physician, heal thyself" joke, but that takes away from what I'm trying to do with the card.
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6277 on: July 10, 2020, 02:14:26 am »
0


If this is still taking from in play, I still think it needs to be $5. The turn you play it, it's a Necropolis, which isn't great. However, on the second turn, it acts as a Lost City that draws into whatever action you set aside last turn! This seems like it's clearly too strong for $4 to me.
That is like saying that Merchant Ship should be a $7 because it is a DoublePeddler on the second turn or that Fishing Village needs to be a $5 because it is a Bazaar on turn 2.
Haunted Woods is even a triple Lab on turn 2, totally overpowered!

If you count the net effects of the card, it is + 2 Actions. It is better than DoubleVillage in one respect, Scheme-ing stuff (well, slightly worse as you are forced to play at the start of the turn) and worse in two respects, being a Duration and thus staying out and not drawing on the turn you play it.

So the crucial question to judge this card is whether a DoubleVillage is a $4 or $5.
If Port would not exist, Id say $5. But I have a hard time imagining a situation in which I would pay $5 for this in a Port Kingdom. Of course this might say more about Port being too strong than the actual card.

I think Port does this with some of the official $5 villages too. Bazaar in particular seems like it is almost never worth getting in a Port game, Bandit Camp also seems like it is very infrequently worth getting. A lot of the others are situational and it would depend on the kingdom.

It's not like Captain's Quarter has a similar enough effect to Port that it is almost strictly worse than it. It simply does something different, and pretty unique for a village.

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.

Also, I think it being a nonterminal action is a pretty big deal when it comes to making a next-turn comparison. The only thing that it costs when setting up is a card in your hand, in contrast to Haunted Woods and Merchant Ship. So even though the next turn effects of those are pretty hefty, they're moderated by the fact that they still cost an action to play at some point. Fishing Village doesn't which is why the next turn effect is only a single Bazaar rather than two of them or something. "Lost City into whatever action you want that was in play last turn" is just so much stronger than "Bazaar" that I can't imagine it should cost less than $5, even though Captain's Quarter doesn't give you +$1 the turn you play it like Fishing Village does. I will admit that I think it's close though, I doubt costing it at $4 would completely break the game open but I think $5 would make it more interesting in gameplay.



Physician - Action - $6
+1 Action
Play any number of Treasures from your hand. You may spend any amount of $ to trash a card from your hand costing up to the amount spent. Then, draw until you have 5 cards in hand.

I feel like the card name requires some kind of self-trashing ability just to make a "Physician, heal thyself" joke, but that takes away from what I'm trying to do with the card.

This seems like something that could lead to monolithic money decks, even with it costing as much as it does. It's hard to know without actually trying it though.
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Carline

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6278 on: July 10, 2020, 12:51:22 pm »
+5

Playtesting

I just started to playtest the submited cards. Being home alone due to quarantine, the best I can do is to play solo games and simulated matches in which I play for both players.

Such limited tests are inevitably biased by my style of playing and limitations as player. Maybe a card could have a cool feature or an intersting way of playing which I don't perceive at first.

So, if you want, please help me with tips of what do you think is the best way to play your card and the expected results from this playing.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 01:17:56 pm by Carline »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6279 on: July 10, 2020, 02:01:35 pm »
0

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.
I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!

Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6280 on: July 10, 2020, 03:34:39 pm »
0

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.
I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!

Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).

I agree with a lot of the things you said here, especially the first two sentences. I've perhaps not been explicit enough in how the fact that the 1st turn effect is often passable (if Shanty Town is the only Village, you will probably buy it given good terminals, even if it is more often than not a Necropolis) combined with the strong second turn effect (it is not just a scheme combined with a village; this effectively gives you an extra draw ahead of the Scheme too).

Captain's Quarters can be said to net draw, if you're comparing it to Village. If I play Village, I get net +0 Cards. The first turn of Captain's Quarters, I get net -1 Cards, but on the second turn, I get net "+2 cards" where the two cards that I draw are Necropolis and whatever Action I set aside. The "+2 cards" are also stronger than any ordinary +2 cards because one of the two cards is going to be something I really want it to be.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6281 on: July 10, 2020, 04:05:06 pm »
+3

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.
I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!

Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).

I agree with a lot of the things you said here, especially the first two sentences. I've perhaps not been explicit enough in how the fact that the 1st turn effect is often passable (if Shanty Town is the only Village, you will probably buy it given good terminals, even if it is more often than not a Necropolis) combined with the strong second turn effect (it is not just a scheme combined with a village; this effectively gives you an extra draw ahead of the Scheme too).

Captain's Quarters can be said to net draw, if you're comparing it to Village. If I play Village, I get net +0 Cards. The first turn of Captain's Quarters, I get net -1 Cards, but on the second turn, I get net "+2 cards" where the two cards that I draw are Necropolis and whatever Action I set aside. The "+2 cards" are also stronger than any ordinary +2 cards because one of the two cards is going to be something I really want it to be.

By the same reasoning, isn't a Village really like Laboratory that draws you a Necropolis and something else? That just seems like a really convoluted way of thinking about it. Captain's Quarter loses a card the turn you play it (like Necro) and gets you a card the next turn (like Lost City). It's as if you played a Village this turn and next turn, except that the draw from this turn gets pushed back to next turn.
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6282 on: July 10, 2020, 05:58:46 pm »
0

The net effect of the card is not +2 Actions on turn 2, because you don't have to draw it or the card you used it with, that's why I made the Lost City comparison.
I tried to illustrate with my last post why it is unwise to seperate the net effects of Durations. If you view the second turn stuff isolated from the first turn stuff, the card looks far better than it is:

Haunted Woods is a next turn triple Lab! And I thought even Double Labs are overpowered!

Well, yeah, but it is dead on the first turn and the net effect of the card is the same as that of Smithy, -1 Action and +2 Cards.

Captain's Quarters has gross effects of +2 Actions on the first turn and +1 Card and +1 Action on the second turn. That's a net effect of +2 Actions which is Double Village, which does no exist officially, which makes it tricky to evaluate while taking similar stuff like Port and Bustling Village as rough benchmarks.

OK, now we saw that the card is basically a splitter that also Schemes and delays the "draw". Delaying the draw sucks, providing the Actions spread over 2 turns like Fishing Village and the quasi-Scheming is brilliant for consistency.

Lost City on the other hand is net +1 Card and +1 Action and has very little to do with Captain's Quarters. The former net draws, the latter does not.

Net effects are only the first step, the subtleties of a card are much more interesting (and IMO very hard when it comes to Durations which is why I have no idea whether this is a $4 or a $5). But getting net effects right is important because it makes it less likely that you miscategorize and thus misevaluate a card (not saying you did!).

I agree with a lot of the things you said here, especially the first two sentences. I've perhaps not been explicit enough in how the fact that the 1st turn effect is often passable (if Shanty Town is the only Village, you will probably buy it given good terminals, even if it is more often than not a Necropolis) combined with the strong second turn effect (it is not just a scheme combined with a village; this effectively gives you an extra draw ahead of the Scheme too).

Captain's Quarters can be said to net draw, if you're comparing it to Village. If I play Village, I get net +0 Cards. The first turn of Captain's Quarters, I get net -1 Cards, but on the second turn, I get net "+2 cards" where the two cards that I draw are Necropolis and whatever Action I set aside. The "+2 cards" are also stronger than any ordinary +2 cards because one of the two cards is going to be something I really want it to be.

By the same reasoning, isn't a Village really like Laboratory that draws you a Necropolis and something else? That just seems like a really convoluted way of thinking about it. Captain's Quarter loses a card the turn you play it (like Necro) and gets you a card the next turn (like Lost City). It's as if you played a Village this turn and next turn, except that the draw from this turn gets pushed back to next turn.

Yeah, that's probably a better way of thinking about it. I think the ability to choose which card you get next turn is really really important though.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6283 on: July 10, 2020, 07:00:44 pm »
0

Yeah, that's probably a better way of thinking about it. I think the ability to choose which card you get next turn is really really important though.
Not getting 2 Actions but "play two Actions" is really important too, especially when it is on a splitter that does not draw. If there is only one other Action in your hand, it basically halves the power of the village.
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alion8me

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6284 on: July 10, 2020, 10:24:56 pm »
+1

Yeah, that's probably a better way of thinking about it. I think the ability to choose which card you get next turn is really really important though.
Not getting 2 Actions but "play two Actions" is really important too, especially when it is on a splitter that does not draw. If there is only one other Action in your hand, it basically halves the power of the village.

It's not clear to me that you have to select both actions before playing them; the way I'm reading it, you select and play action #1 from your hand before even selecting action #2. I agree that it is quite a bit weaker if you use that interpretation of the card.

The card should probably have an FAQ to make this question clear, given that we both interpreted it differently. (Alternatively, it could have "set aside" or "do this twice" wording to align more closely with existing cards.)
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6285 on: July 11, 2020, 02:33:28 am »
0

You are right, it is a nested structure like with TRs.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6286 on: July 11, 2020, 12:49:51 pm »
+1

I don't think we've had a Way yet, so here is Way of the Magpie:



Quote
Way of the Magpie
You may reveal an Action card from your hand. This turn, cards with the same name as it are also Treasures. Play that Action card.

A variation on Capitalism:
costs "playing an Action card" to use
only lasts one turn
only "capitalisms" one named card
can "capitalisms" any action, not just with coin amounts


Feedback welcome - the general idea for a Way that "capitalisms" one named card came early, but I struggled a bit with the right details.

At first I tried "follow its instructions, then cards with that name are treasure". But there'd rarely be a reason NOT to ever follow the way, so that's bad. There had to be a negative. Then, it was just "+1 Action, cards with the same name as this are Treasures". But that seemed a little weak, since the point is to allow you to play multiple terminals, and with this wording you would want at least 3 of the same name to follow the way.

So now you can use *any* action card to "capitalism" some other action.

Some interesting combos with Bandit, Magpie, Courtier, etc.

The problem I see with this is that it is very hard to get it to be better than a Necropolis. I feel like it would be a lot better if it gave you +1 Action instead of playing the action you want to treasureify in order to make it less awkward to use with terminal actions. (I know that ways are supposed to be weak but as is, there needs to be a very specific combo in order for me to want to use this during a game at all).

I didn't love the way this ended up either, partially because I prefer Ways that care about the card that followed the way (as opposed to, for example, Way of the Ox, which is +2 actions always). So yes, I would prefer that the card that becomes the Treasure is the "Way"ed card.

That said, here's a new take, that goes back to that concept, while still finding a way to have a negative consequence to following the instructions.



Quote
Way of the Magpie
This turn, cards with the same name as this are also Treasures. You may discard a Treasure to follow this card's instructions.

Early on it'll "cost" you a copper, but later, when you have better Treasure, it'll "cost" more. Or if your only Treasure is, say, a Platinum, you can always discard a copy fo this - it could still be reasonable to do if, for example, the card is Smithy and you prefer to get the +3 cards during your Action phase, instead of your Buy phase (depending on how you've managed your deck, you could just draw it back, as well).
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Feel free to join us at scolapasta's cards for discussion on any of my custom cards.

X-tra

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6287 on: July 11, 2020, 03:28:41 pm »
0

Small touch ups for my card:



  • You now need 4 cards or less played that turn (instead of 3) to put Quiet Alleyway on your Tavern mat.
  • Just switched the color scheme so it's consistent with stuff like "Night - Duration" cards (banner of the special type's colour, body of the card of Night colour).
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6288 on: July 11, 2020, 07:14:58 pm »
+8

Seignorage
Action/Night - $4
+2 Coffers
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:30:17 am by NoMoreFun »
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herw

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6289 on: July 12, 2020, 01:55:10 am »
+1

Curiosity Shoppe
Action/Night - $4
+2 Coffers
astonishing simple and nice - but don't like the name

perhaps Seignioragehttps://imgur.com/ZS4h89V.png
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 04:17:52 am by herw »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6290 on: July 12, 2020, 08:26:57 am »
+2

2 Coffers nonterminally is a $5 and the delaying does not nerf the card enough to justify a price of $4.
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grrgrrgrr

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6291 on: July 12, 2020, 05:27:11 pm »
+2

« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 05:33:34 pm by grrgrrgrr »
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Marpharos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6292 on: July 12, 2020, 06:20:45 pm »
0

I've redone my design. Thanks to pubby, LordBaphomet, grep, anordinaryman, alion8me, and sorry I don't entirely understand how quoting multiple people works on this.

I wanted Night Hag to be something that wakes you from sleep, it's thematic and I like it so I wanted to keep the night phase and not make it a Treasure. I also wanted it to have a cursing effect, like all good(?) hags. I also wanted there to be a reason to go back to the Action phase and not just to be a gimmick. This is what I've got now:

Night Hag



Quote
If it's your Night Phase, you may trash a Curse from your hand or gain a Curse to hand. If you do, return to your Action phase. Otherwise,
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player gains a Curse.

I am still torn about gaining a Curse to hand. I had it as gain a Copper/2 Coppers to hand, or gaining a Spirit of some sort. This seemed to be a fix. So, you might have some unfinished business in the action phase and really want that Curse, or want to trash that earlier curse you gave yourself. Most importantly though, I don't think it matters if that locket is cursed anymore...
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LordBaphomet

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6293 on: July 12, 2020, 07:28:40 pm »
+1

I've redone my design. Thanks to pubby, LordBaphomet, grep, anordinaryman, alion8me, and sorry I don't entirely understand how quoting multiple people works on this.

I wanted Night Hag to be something that wakes you from sleep, it's thematic and I like it so I wanted to keep the night phase and not make it a Treasure. I also wanted it to have a cursing effect, like all good(?) hags. I also wanted there to be a reason to go back to the Action phase and not just to be a gimmick. This is what I've got now:

Night Hag



Quote
If it's your Night Phase, you may trash a Curse from your hand or gain a Curse to hand. If you do, return to your Action phase. Otherwise,
+2 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player gains a Curse.

I am still torn about gaining a Curse to hand. I had it as gain a Copper/2 Coppers to hand, or gaining a Spirit of some sort. This seemed to be a fix. So, you might have some unfinished business in the action phase and really want that Curse, or want to trash that earlier curse you gave yourself. Most importantly though, I don't think it matters if that locket is cursed anymore...


I feel like this is a better direction for this card but right now it's strictly better than witch... not only does the action phase portion have a +buy, but it also has a strong night phase ability. I think you should just nerf the action phase part of it and it should work.
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6294 on: July 12, 2020, 11:11:41 pm »
0

After careful consideration of the discussion of Captain's Quarters, I've decided to weaken it slightly because it did seem a little strong for $4. So, now, you have to set aside the next card you play. It makes it a little more flexible, in that it could be a Treasure that you set aside, but mostly makes it weaker because you have much less choice in what you set aside, and it nullifies the in-play effects of cards like Goons and Highway the turn you play them.

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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

Carline

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6295 on: July 13, 2020, 04:53:02 am »
0

The phases could be any phase of your turn or other players turn that already exists in the game. Create new phases is not allowed.

Morning Market
cost $2 - Action
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Take an extra Buy phase immediately, during which you gain cards onto your deck.

majiponi, I think it's not according to the rules of the contest, which don't allow to create new phases.

On second thought, I think this is ok and I'm evaluating it as it is.
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Carline

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6296 on: July 13, 2020, 05:20:38 am »
+6

Many cool ideas! I'm playtesting all submited cards and a little bit more time is needed to conclude it. So, this will be a

48 hours warning.

You have two days more to make new entries or change yours.

Below, the cards by now (in alphabetical order). Any feedbacks will be very good to me as also to the designers.


Alchemist's Guild by spineflu




Captains's Quarters by mail-mi




Guinea by mandioca15




Lunar Ritual by alion8me




Morning Market by majiponi




Mummy by LibraryAdventurer




[Name] by LordBaphomet




Night Hag by Marpharos




Overstrain by grep




Pendant by anordinaryman




Physician by ConMan




Port City by segura




Quiet Alleyway by X-tra




Replicate by Aquila




Scribe by D782802859




Seignorage by NoMoreFun




Tenant by [TP] Inferno




Vespers by stechafle




Way of the Magpie by scolapasta




Way of the Wolf by grrgrrgrr


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Jonatan Djurachkovitch

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6297 on: July 13, 2020, 06:39:22 pm »
0

Here's my submission (It sadly has no name yet, suggestions welcomed)

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+ 1 Action
You may play any number of treasures from your hand. Discard your hand. Draw up to 4. Then exile this card.

Action 5$
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Kinda like a strong Minion that exiles itself to prevent monolithic decks with only this. I was thinking about making another card as a means to getting this, like Hermit/Madman, but I'm not sure about how I would go about doing it.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 06:59:00 pm by Jonatan Djurachkovitch »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6298 on: July 13, 2020, 07:14:48 pm »
+1

Many cool ideas! I'm playtesting all submited cards and a little bit more time is needed to conclude it. So, this will be a

Below, the cards by now (in alphabetical order). Any feedbacks will be very good to me as also to the designers.
Wow, thanks for putting in the extra effort to mock up and playtest these. You're going above and beyond as contest judge this week. that's awesome.   :)

LordBaphomet

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #6299 on: July 13, 2020, 08:55:20 pm »
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New entry - rewards variety and gets stronger the earlier you play it.
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