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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contests #1 - #100  (Read 1546261 times)

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spheremonk

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5250 on: April 03, 2020, 05:35:07 pm »
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Yeah okay, this argument about intuitiveness has served its course and the quality of discourse is dropping. As the god-king-judge of this week's contest I'm going to start disqualifying people who don't tone it down.

Joke's on you, I don't have a card to submit to the contest, do your worst!  ;)

And my card isn't going to win either way. But you're right about the quality and tone, so I'll shut up.
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5251 on: April 03, 2020, 05:44:54 pm »
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1. You left out the "m" in Climber.
2. "Take" and "Rope" should both be capitalized.
Typos aside, this is my favorite entry so far.
Fixed. Thank you :)
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5252 on: April 03, 2020, 07:36:53 pm »
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The idea is give you some shifting if you can play the cards in a certain way. The original idea of rope didn't had the discard effect, (and no draw on Climber), but it felt to strong for a $2 card.

Is this supposed to say “previously card played this turn”? Or is it supposed to count the last turn, which it would as worded? Counting the last turn seems weird; since the last card played will usually be a treasure, often a copper.
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5253 on: April 03, 2020, 11:15:38 pm »
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Is this supposed to say “previously card played this turn”? Or is it supposed to count the last turn, which it would as worded? Counting the last turn seems weird; since the last card played will usually be a treasure, often a copper.
You take the rope after you played the climber, so if you play copper latter (should I change "Take the rope" for "after you play this, take the rope"?)
Anyway, yes maybe it should, to avoid tracking issues with silver or gold
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popsofctown

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5254 on: April 04, 2020, 12:05:48 am »
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I fear it will be correct to take Horses with horse thief too often.  The horses will net you two nonterminal cards, the debt will deprive another player of 2$ when you can perfectly predict what they want to buy and they have to go through with that purchase anyway.  It's the general case that cards are more valuable than $, and since both effects are delayed away to a point where it's hard to judge their situational impact, it's hard to make a Steward-style assessment that you've you've hit the odd spot that $ is more valuable than cards. 
I think maybe it's not too pushed to add a vanilla $ to the debt options.  Increasing their debt instead would run counter to the "let's not do Sea Hag and Saboteur anymore" rule, although I'm not sure you definitely need to honor that rule when the card can cure its own ill.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5255 on: April 04, 2020, 02:50:06 am »
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Is this supposed to say “previously card played this turn”? Or is it supposed to count the last turn, which it would as worded? Counting the last turn seems weird; since the last card played will usually be a treasure, often a copper.
You take the rope after you played the climber, so if you play copper latter (should I change "Take the rope" for "after you play this, take the rope"?)
Anyway, yes maybe it should, to avoid tracking issues with silver or gold

I’m talking about the situation when you start your turn with the Rope; the last card played would be what your opponent played last; not what you played last.
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Freddy10

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5256 on: April 04, 2020, 09:37:32 am »
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Is this supposed to say “previously card played this turn”? Or is it supposed to count the last turn, which it would as worded? Counting the last turn seems weird; since the last card played will usually be a treasure, often a copper.
You take the rope after you played the climber, so if you play copper latter (should I change "Take the rope" for "after you play this, take the rope"?)
Anyway, yes maybe it should, to avoid tracking issues with silver or gold

I’m talking about the situation when you start your turn with the Rope; the last card played would be what your opponent played last; not what you played last.

True. I hope there are no more edge cases now. It became a little heavy on words, but i think the idea is still simple. Maybe it can be done without an artifact or something similar
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Rhodos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5257 on: April 04, 2020, 02:22:51 pm »
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The idea is give you some shifting if you can play the cards in a certain way. The original idea of rope didn't had the discard effect, (and no draw on Climber), but it felt to strong for a $2 card.
Edit 1: fixed typos
Edit 2: removing rope at the end of the turn

Really cool design idea! :)

I would say it is a bit too strong for $2. I assume that, in most cases, you will be able to trigger the Rope twice (village variant -> smithy variant in engine or silver -> gold in big money). That means you are playing a forum that costs only $2. And even triggering it ones is pretty good considering the fact that you don't take risks when you put Climber in your deck. I would say it is more interesting at $3, where it competes with other good cards and it is harder to trigger twice.
That said, I like the card and I would keep it like that for the contest. But maybe that is something to consider for later.
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curtis

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5258 on: April 04, 2020, 06:10:12 pm »
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The idea is give you some shifting if you can play the cards in a certain way. The original idea of rope didn't had the discard effect, (and no draw on Climber), but it felt to strong for a $2 card.
Edit 1: fixed typos
Edit 2: removing rope at the end of the turn

 Climber, village, smithy, village, smithy, market, artisan, Copper, silver, copper, silver, gold.
 
Receives the effect 8 times right? Seems kinda strong for $2 to me too. What if it only applied to actions? Or cost 5 and was also a lab with anoth +1 card? I think it would still be an auto pick in all three configurations
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5259 on: April 04, 2020, 07:07:53 pm »
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The idea is give you some shifting if you can play the cards in a certain way. The original idea of rope didn't had the discard effect, (and no draw on Climber), but it felt to strong for a $2 card.
Edit 1: fixed typos
Edit 2: removing rope at the end of the turn

 Climber, village, smithy, village, smithy, market, artisan, Copper, silver, copper, silver, gold.
 
Receives the effect 8 times right? Seems kinda strong for $2 to me too. What if it only applied to actions? Or cost 5 and was also a lab with anoth +1 card? I think it would still be an auto pick in all three configurations

No, when you play the village after the smithy, you have to return the rope. You'd have to play another climber to take it back.
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curtis

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5260 on: April 04, 2020, 11:06:26 pm »
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Ahhhh, I should read better. Now it seems much more balanced lol
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5261 on: April 05, 2020, 12:23:52 am »
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This is obviously far too strong. It’s is not hard to make this trigger at least once and in this case it is a very slightly delayed (if delay is the appropriate term, it happens after all in the same turn) Fugitive which is a $4.5
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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5262 on: April 05, 2020, 07:24:05 am »
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A Fugitive that only works if you draw your cards in the correct order isn't that strong. Say you're playing any engine with Border Village as your main village. This becomes pretty weak. Same with any 5 cost village paired with a 4 cost Smithy. You don't really want multiple, and cost reduction screws it up. I think it has enough downside to be balanced at 2 or 3.
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Rhodos

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5263 on: April 05, 2020, 08:41:39 am »
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If you play with the Border Village you still get the Fugitive effect, since it is higher cost than the Climber which you played before. And I don't see how cost reduction will screw it up, since it will also reduce the Climber cost. And if you play like a Highway after Climber you still get to trigger the Rope at least once, which makes Climber a Fugitive.
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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5264 on: April 05, 2020, 08:51:02 am »
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The problem is playing cost reduction before the Climber. This isn't quite as likely with Bridge and Highway, but with Bridge Troll, Climber is going to cost the same as most of your other cards if you have just 3 or 4 in play which isn't unlikely in a deck using the card, and it can happen with other reducers, such as the self-cost reducers from Menagerie and Highway if you draw the Highways early.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5265 on: April 05, 2020, 09:03:53 am »
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A Fugitive that only works if you draw your cards in the correct order isn't that strong. Say you're playing any engine with Border Village as your main village. This becomes pretty weak. Same with any 5 cost village paired with a 4 cost Smithy. You don't really want multiple, and cost reduction screws it up. I think it has enough downside to be balanced at 2 or 3.
I do not understand this at all. The net effect of Rope is the same as that of Fugitive, and as already mentioned, Fugitive is between a $4 and a $5. It is of course a possibility that you can only play $2s or Coppers after Climber, or that you have several Highways in play, but not very likely. It is much more likely that you will play, as you mentioned, a $5 and a $4 and even if this is the end of your Action phase, you might still get some sifting during your Buy phase. This particular situation would make Climber better than Forum.

So no, not nearly balanced at $2. Definitely a $5. But then the more expensive thingy does not work anymore.
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D782802859

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5266 on: April 05, 2020, 09:30:39 am »
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A Fugitive that only works if you draw your cards in the correct order isn't that strong. Say you're playing any engine with Border Village as your main village. This becomes pretty weak. Same with any 5 cost village paired with a 4 cost Smithy. You don't really want multiple, and cost reduction screws it up. I think it has enough downside to be balanced at 2 or 3.
I do not understand this at all. The net effect of Rope is the same as that of Fugitive, and as already mentioned, Fugitive is between a $4 and a $5. It is of course a possibility that you can only play $2s or Coppers after Climber, or that you have several Highways in play, but not very likely. It is much more likely that you will play, as you mentioned, a $5 and a $4 and even if this is the end of your Action phase, you might still get some sifting during your Buy phase. This particular situation would make Climber better than Forum.

So no, not nearly balanced at $2. Definitely a $5. But then the more expensive thingy does not work anymore.
I don't think it's a 5, you do have to jump through hoops to make it work, but it's probably too strong at 2. I think 4 would be better, similar to Conspirator. Like Conspirator, it has a fairly powerful effect that requires outside support for it to function.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5267 on: April 05, 2020, 10:25:21 am »
+1

Balance aside; with the version that returns rope at the end of turn; seems weird to use an artifact. Artifacts are things that you have until another player takes it from you; this is just a way of splitting the wordy “until the end of turn” effect across 2 separate card-shaped things. Though it also causes it to be limited to one per turn. Which is like adding “if this is the first time you played climber this turn”.

Which actually is another reason it’s not as strong as Fugitive and doesn’t matter if it’s cheap.. because only the first one you play each turn is a Fugitive... the rest are cantrips that do nothing at all. The only reason to buy multiple Climbers is to increase your chances of having one every turn.
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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5268 on: April 05, 2020, 10:47:25 am »
+1


A Reserve that can turn everything into a Cemetery. An old card from the Ice Age expansion so it's had a decent amount of testing.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5269 on: April 05, 2020, 10:54:21 am »
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A Reserve that can turn everything into a Cemetery. An old card from the Ice Age expansion so it's had a decent amount of testing.

I don’t know a good fix off-hand, but the wording is a bit tricky; when I first read “per $1 it costs” I thought it meant the trashed card. Which doesn’t make any sense, so on a second reading, I got it. Maybe replace “it” with “the gained card”?
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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5270 on: April 05, 2020, 11:00:30 am »
+1

Balance aside; with the version that returns rope at the end of turn; seems weird to use an artifact. Artifacts are things that you have until another player takes it from you; this is just a way of splitting the wordy “until the end of turn” effect across 2 separate card-shaped things. Though it also causes it to be limited to one per turn. Which is like adding “if this is the first time you played climber this turn”.

Which actually is another reason it’s not as strong as Fugitive and doesn’t matter if it’s cheap.. because only the first one you play each turn is a Fugitive... the rest are cantrips that do nothing at all. The only reason to buy multiple Climbers is to increase your chances of having one every turn.

Agreed that the Rope no longer feels like an Artifact. You can also still play Climber on your opponent's turn using Way of the Mouse and one of the reactions that plays itself and have the Rope be carried over between turns that way so that issue hasn't been fixed.

You can return the Rope by playing a cheaper card and retake it multiple times in a turn so multiple Climbers can be Fugitives.


A Reserve that can turn everything into a Cemetery. An old card from the Ice Age expansion so it's had a decent amount of testing.

I don’t know a good fix off-hand, but the wording is a bit tricky; when I first read “per $1 it costs” I thought it meant the trashed card. Which doesn’t make any sense, so on a second reading, I got it. Maybe replace “it” with “the gained card”?

I think that's probably because you've been conditioned to think that because of all the trash for benefit cards that use similar wording? I can't really see anyone misinterpreting the wording of this.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 11:05:15 am by Gazbag »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5271 on: April 05, 2020, 11:26:08 am »
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Yeah I’m not saying there’s a reasonable incorrect interpretation. Just that I had to read it twice to get it. You’re probably correct that it’s because we see similar wording on other trash for benefit cards.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5272 on: April 05, 2020, 11:48:18 am »
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you do have to jump through hoops to make it work
Playing a card with Coin costing larger than 2 is the very opposite of jumping through hoops, it occurs most of the times no matter what: if you play money you get some sifting (read twice: Gold, Silver) while playing Treasures, so you can sift through green and if you play an engine it is highly unlikely that you have only engine pieces that cost $2 in hand after having played Climber.
It is fairly trivial to make this sift at least twice.
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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5273 on: April 05, 2020, 11:52:53 am »
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Yeah I’m not saying there’s a reasonable incorrect interpretation. Just that I had to read it twice to get it. You’re probably correct that it’s because we see similar wording on other trash for benefit cards.

Yeah I'm sure there is a better wording, I didn't mean to be so dismissive. Really I just didn't want to redo the card image.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #5274 on: April 05, 2020, 11:58:06 am »
+1

Which actually is another reason it’s not as strong as Fugitive and doesn’t matter if it’s cheap.. because only the first one you play each turn is a Fugitive... the rest are cantrips that do nothing at all.
You cannot make unconditional statements about Climber. One Climber could lead to several Fugitive effects in a row, one Climber could be a mere cantrip, one Climber could re-take the Rope after you were forced to return it in the very same turn.

The key question is rather: how often will one Climber in your deck allow you to sift on average? I think it is larger than one (=1 would suffice for a price of $5 as well), hence a price of $5.
The only counterargument I see is that Climber underperforms in junky decks, i.e. at the very moment when you need a sifter most.
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