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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 82885 times)

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spineflu

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2775 on: July 16, 2019, 04:37:46 pm »
0

I wasn't gonna enter this week because I forgot about it but then i saw there was still like two days left in the contest so here I am, with my Potion remodel + Potion overpay junker.



card text:
Metamorphosis • $3+ • Action
Trash a card from your hand. Gain a card costing up to [Potion] more than the trashed card.
-
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each [Potion] you overpay, each other player gains a Copper.

This is useless without other potion cards. The top just says “trash a card and gain a card costing up to the same amount” while the bottom only junks if I’ve already junked myself with useless potions. I’m not sure how to fix it. Maybe make it cost potion and overpay with coins? The top part would still be pretty bad though.

how about don't play it without other potion cards? it's rare that there'd be only one in a "good" kingdom setup anyway.

Like... yall need a breather - not every card is good in a random kingdom. Let there be weirdness and edgecases. That's how you make a fun game. Yall wanted an unconventional junker. This is not a conventional junker. It's gonna have setups where it's underpowered / not worthwhile. Those aren't its interesting cases - its interesting cases are the ones where its a contender.

Having a card that is completely useless in some kingdoms is a design flaw.  It's the reason why Donald X cut a card that was "+$2, return this to your hand" - it was almost useless without villages (I forget its cost, but it was at least $3).  It's the reason why every card that gains or plays a card from the trash also has a way to put good cards into the trash (Graverobber, Rogue, Lurker, Necromancer).  It's also the reason why every Reaction card has an effect that might be useful even if there is no opportunity to use the reaction, such as Moat for +2 Cards without attacks and Tunnel for 2 VP with no way to discard it.

I strongly suggest changing this to have a positive effect even in games without other Potion-cost cards.  A different above-the-line effect that interacts with Potions would be one possibility, something like Apothecary or Alchemist.  That would prevent the Potion you bought from being a dead card.

Honestly I prefer a different Donald X anecdote. It's fine - it's gonna be worthless in a bunch of kingdoms. It's also going to be an interesting card for both top and bottom in a bunch of kingdoms. Make your own version if you're unhappy with it.
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mail-mi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2776 on: July 16, 2019, 06:10:15 pm »
+3

Dude, chill, we’re just trying to help you make a good card. Sorry if my comment caused offense.

There are a total of 10 potion cards in the entirety of Dominion. The odds of this appearing in another set with even just one potion card are pretty bad. Now if you like it that’s totally fine, but this is a contest where the goal is to create a well-designed, fun, and usable-in-most-games card.

And take the games without potion cost cards. I have to buy a potion whose only use is overpaying for this card. Then I buy this card, and the top is not very good because there aren’t any other potion cost cards in the kingdom, and each other player gets a copper. They’re left with one not-very-useful card, while I have 2. And there’s no way to overcome those numbers. If I buy another one and overpay, they  have 2 not-very-useful cards and I have 3. I end up junking myself more than junking them.
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math

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2777 on: July 16, 2019, 06:32:07 pm »
+1

I also apologize if my comment caused offense.  It was rather forceful, and maybe it was too much.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2778 on: July 17, 2019, 03:14:10 am »
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And take the games without potion cost cards. I have to buy a potion whose only use is overpaying for this card.

You only include Potion in kingdoms that have a Potion cost card.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2779 on: July 17, 2019, 11:59:02 am »
0

And take the games without potion cost cards. I have to buy a potion whose only use is overpaying for this card.

You only include Potion in kingdoms that have a Potion cost card.

Right, this seems like the bigger issue... this card doesn't add Potion to the Supply. So it's not just that it's weak without Potion-cost cards in the Kingdom, it's that it can't do basically anything. The overpay just doesn't work because there's no way to generation a .
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2780 on: July 17, 2019, 01:15:42 pm »
0

I decided to try a card that junks itself.

Stockpile is a cheap Gold, but after you use it a couple of times, it's empty and worth $0. Luckily, it comes with a Restock, which allows you to replenish it, but at the cost of a Curse.



Changelog:
0.1 Stockpile, Restock - initial



Secret History:

I went through several iterations to get to this "initial" version. First it was just a one treasure card, earning tokens via overpay - it started weak and tokens made it stronger; or you could remove tokens to make it weak again, but with a strong one time bonus. But the text got very tiny, so I tried a split pile. It was not clear to me, however, if it was ever worth buying the 2nd card to trigger the bonus. So it came back to one card again, until I realized I could reverse the token effect - start strong and get weaker. That allowed me to add the dependent card since now you get it for free and you have more incentive to do it.



Questions:

• The main questions I have are all about the numbers: is the cost right? is giving a Gold effective? (I tried +$2 at a cost of $2, but usually you do have $3 and would just get the silver.) Does working twice before being spent seem like the right amount of times?

• Should restock provide some positive when you call it to provide some incentive over just trashing stockpiles? (originally, Stockpile was worth $1 when it spent, but I changed it to $0 to further encourage usage of Restock.

• Is there a better name than "Spent token"? I did think about just using the Coin tokens, since that's what I'll probably do in practice.

• Just a comment, but I'm hoping to find better images that work with each other. Finding even these was harder than previous searches.

If you read the secret history, you saw that this has gone from 1 pile to a split pile, back to 1, and then to 2. Well, it's now back to 1 pile! :)

I was bothered by the fact that Restock did nothing other than "restock" the stockpile and was trying to figure out something else to give it, when I had a DUH! moment and of course, it's not even needed. Stockpile itself can provide itself the restock option.



I also decided to try a version that removes instead of adds the tokens (since that's more intuitive). This one is ends up being stronger, so I'm not sure if enough to up the cost (especially as part of my design choice was to have the opportunity to get a pseudo-Gold before your first shuffle.

Note that you only get the initial tokens on buy - gaining them gets you empty Stockpiles.



Thoughts?

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Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2781 on: July 17, 2019, 05:17:01 pm »
+4

I think this card would probably be better overall if you made the card more likely to have a better effect for the person playing it (if you don't want card drawing, you could do card sifting.), and perhaps strengthen it to make it cost 5 -- right now it's not convincing that the central mechanics of this card (gaining curses to hand and the tome) belong to a cheap curser.
I believe I disagree with this general design philosophy you are displaying (and throughout your judging post). It seems to me you are looking at cards that have problems baked into them and considering them poorly designed for that reason: I think cards that have inherent problems are the best designed cards because you have to look elsewhere in the Kingdom to solve them.
The least interesting cards in Dominion right now I believe primarily derive from trying to take an interesting idea (Masquerade's pass a card, Ambassador's give a card to other players, Possession's control another player's turn, Cultist's play-each-other thing, Rebuild's step-up Victory cards) and tacking so many effects onto them to make them work that they end up monopolizing the board in a boring fashion. The best cards are cards that result in big problems a priori of the Kingdom (Chapel's deck destruction at the cost of pacing, Highway's cost-reduction without the buys to help it, Library's powerful draw without the way to productively reduce hand-size, Remodel's powerful trashing that needs good targets, etc.). Two of the cards I chose as best in my judgment were Bookstore and Consul, each of which have big strategy problems without considering the Kingdom.
It is certainly possible for the problems to be too big to overcome reasonably (Contraband is an excellent example), but I do not agree that Chronicler's problem is too big. Cursers tend to need bigger problems because junking is so inherently powerful. That is fine if you don't agree, of course.

Hypocrite
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4
+$2. Choose one: Discard down to 3 cards in hand; or gain Coppers to your hand until you have 5 cards in hand. Each other player does the same choice as you.
I'm having a hard time envisioning literally ever wanting to trigger this. I could manage it by using two Hypocrites, which could put 2 Coppers into other players' decks, but that would often put 3 Coppers into my deck unless I go even further to discard down and then draw back up before hitting with the Copper-junking. I suppose it's trying to deal with the generally problematic nature of Copper-junking, but being so niche as to be useless in 90% of Kingdoms is no good.

Shyster
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
+$2. Reveal a card from your hand. For each copy they have in their hand, each other player gains 1 debt and a Copper.
This has a pretty awful positive feedback loop. If you're hit with a few Shysters (which often occur at once as a player later in turn order), it will typically reveal Coppers to flood Coppers. Quickly, players will be stuck with 4 or 5 Coppers per turn producing debt that completely cancel them out. The Coppers also pile really fast with this in 4-player. Copper junking needs to be approached a little more carefully than this.

Bellwether
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Buy. Reveal your hand. The player to your right picks a card from it. +$1 per $1 it costs up to $5. Each other player gains a copy of that card.
I think this may as well read as "+1 Buy. Each other player gains a Copper" in your average game. That's a pretty weak $5 card.

Consulate
Type: Action, Attack
Cost: $4
+$1. Gain a card costing less than this to your hand. Each other player discards the top card of their deck and gains a copy of the card you have gained to the top of their deck.
I imagine Silver-flooding with this will typically be fairly good considering how much better it is for the player to get a Silver in hand than the other players to get a stop card on top of their deck. This might also have piling issues in multiplayer if that gut-reaction proves false (because it junks out the Curse pile then the Estate pile pretty fast).

Quote
Arson
Types: Action, Attack, Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it costs $6 or less, they trash it, and gain a Ruins if it costs $1 or less and a Damage from one of the Damage piles otherwise.
Quote
Damaged Laboratory
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
If the number of cards you have in play is odd, +2 Cards. Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Village
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
+2 Actions.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Workshop
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
Choose one: +1 Action and +1 Buy; or gain a card costing up to $3 from the Supply or one of the Damage piles.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Tarnished Silver
Types: Treasure, Damage
Cost: $1
Worth $2 if you have at least 3 Action cards in play, $1 otherwise.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Estate
Types: Victory, Damage
Cost: $1
Worth 1VP if you have 3 or more Estates.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Possibly interesting conceptually, though I think adding only Arson for all the Damage cards is not worth the complexity--especially along side it also being a Looter: I'd want additional cards that use Damage cards. Maybe give Arson a type similar to Looter?

Tarnished Cards: The Tarnished Cards replace the Curse cards in a game using a card with the subtype "Tarnisher" (or any time you want to replace the curses). There are 5 different Tarnished cards, and there are 10 of each. They are set up exactly like the Ruins pile.
Quote
Tarnished Blade
Types: Action, Curse
Cost: $0
+1 Action. Trash a card costing at least $3 from your hand to trash this card.
When you trash this, if it was not in play, put it into your hand.
-1VP
Quote
Tarnished Armor
Types: Action, Curse
Cost: $0
+1 Action. Discard 2 cards to trash this card.
When you trash this, if it was not in play, put it into your hand.
-1VP
Quote
Tarnished Fortune
Types: Action, Curse
Cost: $0
Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a Victory or Curse card. Put that card on top of your deck and discard the rest to trash this card.
When you trash this, if it was not in play, put it into your hand.
-1VP
Quote
Tarnished Gift
Types: Action, Curse
Cost: $0
+1 Action. Gain a Copper to the top of your deck to trash this card.
When you trash this, if it was not in play, put it into your hand.
-1VP
Quote
Tarnished Maps
Types: Action, Curse
Cost: $0
+1 Action. The player to your left looks at the top 3 cards of your deck, discards any number of them, and puts the rest back in any order. If they do, trash this card.
When you trash this, if it was not in play, put it into your hand.
-1VP
Quote
Corrosion
Types: Action, Attack, Tarnisher
Cost: $5
+2 Coffers. Set this card aside.
When another copy of Corrosion comes into play, discard this, and each other player gains a Curse.
Is Tarnished Fortune supposed to be an Action or a Treasure?
I'm still not a fan of the Tarnished cards. It takes Curses that are normally a big deal and makes them an even bigger deal because you can't trash them normally. It is also wildly swingy in a way that Ruins are not. Tarnished Blade is particularly difficult to trash in comparison to others.

Quote
Red Tide
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4 onto your deck. Put a Barnacle from its pile onto an Action supply pile of your choice.
Quote
Barnacle
Types: Action
Cost: $1
Place this on top of an Action supply pile of your choice.
When you gain this, +1 Buy
This seems like a more resource intensive and frustrating version of Tax.

Gremlin
Types: Action, Attack, Doom
Cost: $5
You may trash this, to move the Jinxed token to an Action supply pile. If you didn't, +2 cards, and each other player gains a card from the Jinxed pile.
Setup: Add an Kingdom Action pile costing up to $2 to the supply and put the Jinxed token on it. When a player plays a card from the Jinxed pile, they first receive the next Hex.
Regardless of game speed, because Gremlin can move the Jinxed token, not only is no Action safe (encouraging playing boring and swingy money-centric strategies), but multiplayer games are doomed to a wildly "quick" (Hex resolution aside) finish as the game will be so easy to pile out.

Totem
Types: Treasure, Reserve
Cost: $5
$3. When you play this, gain a Curse and put this on your Tavern mat.
When you would gain a Curse during your turn, you may call this. If you do, each other player gains a Curse instead.
I disagree with anordinaryman on this. Totem having the problem "how do I gain a Curse" is an interesting consideration. This Totem is an unblockable Curser that requires you to gain a Curse first (after which you will continue to alternate the two Totems on your Tavern mat).

Stockpile
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
When you play this, choose one: Remove a Coin token from your Stockpile mat for +$3; or gain a Curse to put 2 Coin tokens on your Stockpile mat.
When yo ubuy this, put 2 Coin tokens on your Stockpile mat.
A marked improvement over the version that also self-junked you with Restock cards. Getting 2 +$3 for a Curse is probably not enough though, I'd go with 3 Coin tokens for gaining a Curse (but still 2 for buying a Stockpile). I'm mostly worried about play patterns that could possibly trick players into buying Stockpiles to refill Stockpiles.

Quote
Plague Doctor
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a Silver to your hand. Each other player reveals their hand and gains a Plague.
Quote
Plague
Types: Reaction
Cost: $0
When something causes you to revela this (using the word "reveal"), gain a Plague.
Jester ranks among my least favorite cards, as its strength is fundamentally based upon its first play: If it hits a Victory card, you not only gain a Curse, but you now have a Curse which makes it easier to gain more. Plague Doctor\Plague has this problem but even worse.

Diplomatic Gift
Types: Action, Attack, Duration
Cost: $4
Each other player gains a Silver. Now and at the start of your next turn: You may trash a Treasure card from your hand for +$1 per $1 it costs.
While this is in play, Silver only produces $1.
This is a trasher\junker and thus will have a similar centralizing effect to Ambassador. Even more, possibly, considering the Silvers in your deck are so bad except as Diplomatic Gift fodder, meaning the best response to Diplomatic Gift is more Diplomatic Gift. The concept is also somewhat troubling in that the in-play effect hits yourself twice, but that likely won't matter because it will be ideal to have Diplomatic Gift in play 100% of the time (across players, that will probably occur regardless).

Cockroach
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Action. If the Cockroach pile is empty, each other player gains a Curse. Otherwise, gain a Cockroach.
Setup: Each player gains a Cockroach.
In most circumstances, this will be a junk card you just have to have in your deck. Any other effect would be an attempt to out-race the other players in a Cockroach\Estate\Curse three-pile, which I can't imagine ever being fun.

Charlatan
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand trashes a card from their hand and gains a card with the same cost that you choose.
Even allowing for its reduced efficacy around Estates and Provinces, I believe that the hand reduction this implies will make the Attack strong enough to cost $5. It also would be given slightly more time and thus be mildly less swingy at such a cost.

Lancers
Types: Action, Attack, Looter
Cost: $4
+1 Action. You may turn your Journey token over. Then if it's face down, +2 Cards. If it's face up, +1 Card. Each other player with a face down Journey token gains a Ruins.
This might be plenty good between its junking and draw if the Journey token flipping was mandatory. As is, if your deck is even mildly stabilized, this is a $4 Laboratory+, except the last which becomes a cantrip. I currently find the trigger for the junking to be somewhat troubling, as an unlucky turn may imply gaining the Ruins pile. Flipping other players' tokens in some way might be worth considering.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 08:16:45 pm by Fragasnap »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2782 on: July 17, 2019, 05:45:16 pm »
0

I am gonna be able to go over the cards in about 18h so if you have any further ideas, please try to post them until then.
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mandioca15

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2783 on: July 17, 2019, 05:59:31 pm »
0

Thank you for the feedback, Fragasnap. Based on that, I will modify the wording as follows:

Shyster (Action-Attack) [$5]

+$2

Reveal a card costing more than $0 from your hand. For each copy they have in their hand, every other player takes 1 Debt and gains a Copper.
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Gazbag

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2784 on: July 17, 2019, 06:22:12 pm »
0



Busy week for me so this is just a reject from last week's contest (for Hinterlands even though it uses Renaissance wording so didn't really work for that expansion). It isn't very difficult to trigger (just buy a card) so it perhaps doesn't fit into this contest in spirit. I felt like it'll be pretty swingy in games where you can chain a few of these as the first player to do it will probably hand out the majority of the curses, but it's at least a little bit interesting? And maybe Workshop for $5 is bad enough that getting a bunch is a bad idea...
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2785 on: July 17, 2019, 06:24:12 pm »
0

Quote
Arson
Types: Action, Attack, Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it costs $6 or less, they trash it, and gain a Ruins if it costs $1 or less and a Damage from one of the Damage piles.
Quote
Damaged Laboratory
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
If the number of cards you have in play is odd, +2 Cards. Otherwise, +1 Card, +1 Action.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Village
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
+2 Actions.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Workshop
Types: Action, Damage
Cost: $1
Choose one: +1 Action and +1 Buy; or gain a card costing up to $3 from the Supply or one of the Damage piles.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Tarnished Silver
Types: Treasure, Damage
Cost: $1
Worth $2 if you have at least 3 Action cards in play, $1 otherwise.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Quote
Damaged Estate
Types: Victory, Damage
Cost: $1
Worth 1VP if you have 3 or more Estates.
(This is not in the Supply.)
Possibly interesting conceptually, though I think adding only Arson for all the Damage cards is not worth the complexity--especially along side it also being a Looter: I'd want additional cards that use Damage cards. Maybe give Arson a type similar to Looter?

The Damage cards are not in the supply, so there does not need to be a special type like Looter to interact with them. Think of them as like the Spirit cards; there's no reason there couldn't be other cards that also gain Damages, but at the same time, there's no reason to submit an additional card to this contest (and that might break the rules anyway).

Also, your rendition of Arson's text is missing the "otherwise" at the end. You only gain a Damage if the trashed card costs between $2 and $6.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 06:28:08 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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Fragasnap

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2786 on: July 17, 2019, 07:26:43 pm »
0

Racketeer
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4. For the rest of the turn, when you gain a card, each other player gains a Curse.
This one is powerful and clever.  It can multi-Curse either by layering it with other card gainers or simply building a deck that buys many cards.  I'm not totally sure I'd count it as a "conditional junker," if only because buying a card is something you normally do, but I guess it technically counts.

...
Possibly interesting conceptually, though I think adding only Arson for all the Damage cards is not worth the complexity--especially along side it also being a Looter: I'd want additional cards that use Damage cards. Maybe give Arson a type similar to Looter?

The Damage cards are not in the supply, so there does not need to be a special type like Looter to interact with them. Think of them as like the Spirit cards; there's no reason there couldn't be other cards that also gain Damages, but at the same time, there's no reason to submit an additional card to this contest (and that might break the rules anyway).

Also, your rendition of Arson's text is missing the "otherwise" at the end. You only gain a Damage if the trashed card costs between $2 and $6.
My apologies.  I don't like the wording of Arson and considered a recommendation otherwise, and then botched the wording when I tried to put it back.  It is fixed in my post for reference's sake.  The current wording is awkward because of the organization of clauses.  It would be more clear if it was built as a list.
Quote
Arson
Types: Action, Attack, Looter
Cost: $4
+$2. Each other player reveals the top card of their deck and if it costs... From $2 to $6: Trashes it and gains a Damage from its pile. $1 or less: Trashes it and gains a Ruins.
I understand that it doesn't need another type because Damage cards are not part of the Supply, but I stand by putting both Damage and Ruins onto one card being a complexity overload.  It might not even be a good idea to have a junk pile that could theoretically run out and not push the game towards completion.  The Spirits are all things that you typically want to have in your deck, remember, so them piling is not necessarily such a drag to the pace of the game.
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2787 on: July 17, 2019, 08:43:00 pm »
0

Totem
Types: Treasure, Reserve
Cost: $5
$3. When you play this, gain a Curse and put this on your Tavern mat.
When you would gain a Curse during your turn, you may call this. If you do, each other player gains a Curse instead.
I disagree with anordinaryman on this. Totem having the problem "how do I gain a Curse" is an interesting consideration. This Totem is an unblockable Curser that requires you to gain a Curse first (after which you will continue to alternate the two Totems on your Tavern mat).

The self-cursing was my idea, but I think you're right and that overpowers it. I have now removed that.
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2788 on: July 17, 2019, 09:52:11 pm »
0

Stockpile
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4
When you play this, choose one: Remove a Coin token from your Stockpile mat for +$3; or gain a Curse to put 2 Coin tokens on your Stockpile mat.
When you buy this, put 2 Coin tokens on your Stockpile mat.
A marked improvement over the version that also self-junked you with Restock cards. Getting 2 +$3 for a Curse is probably not enough though, I'd go with 3 Coin tokens for gaining a Curse (but still 2 for buying a Stockpile). I'm mostly worried about play patterns that could possibly trick players into buying Stockpiles to refill Stockpiles.

I guess I thought of the buying Stockpiles to refill Stockpiles as an interesting aspect to manage. (for example, it's worth doing if you have Remodel where you Tfb the extra Stockpile). Similar to how you have to strategically manage Rats.

I'm not against changing the numbers, of course, but would love to understand better the reasoning for it.

When I was first deciding, I compared this with Cursed Gold (though of course you can't buy more of those).


One Stockpile gives you either +$6 over two turns; or $12 and 1 curse over 5 turns (and so on).

Cursed Gold, you get +$6 and 2 curses over 2 turns; or $15 and 5 curses over 5 turns.

That seemed to me reasonable as a comparison (if not stronger).

If I do need to improve it some, what if the number of tokens gotten from gaining a curse was based on how many stockpiles in play. (e.g. gain a curse to put 2 Coin tokens per Stockpile in play on your Stockpile mat).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:44:27 am by scolapasta »
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majiponi

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2789 on: July 17, 2019, 11:16:28 pm »
0

I finally came up with an idea to brush up my idea, but it's too late.

Quote
Scarab
cost $1 - Action - Attack
+2 Actions
If the Scarab pile is empty, each other player gains a Copper. Otherwise, gain a Scarab.
Setup: Each player may exchange a Estate to a Scarab.
Village Junker! Self Multiplication! Cheap! No worry for 3-pile end!
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2790 on: July 18, 2019, 10:12:17 am »
+1

Thanks for the numerous submissions, despite my slightly repetitive challenge!
This was very difficult as there were so many great cards. Favourites are bolded.



Hypocrite by Aquila
Although 'attacking everybody including yourself' is novel, it has a classical feel. A clean design and a clear favourite.
The Copper junking can be quite nasty when you play with few Treasures which is more likely in a Kingdom with trashers which again limits the nastiness of the Copper-junking.
What you obviously aim for is something like Village, Village, Hypocrite-Militia, Hypocrite-Copperjunker, trash your Coppers. Seems near impossible in 2P but in 3P that double Attack can be smeared over 2 turns: Alice plays Hypocrite-Militia, Bob plays some draw and then Hypocrite-Copperjunker, Charlie will suffer.


Bellwether by pubby
Cool idea but unsound implementation.
This is either a Copper/Curse junker, a Woodcutter Estate junker or a payload card that gains cards for the opponents.
All junking options are relatively weak (and come with the additional problem that you lack control as an opponent makes the choice) while the gaining option is nearly as good for the opponents as for you (unless you managed to play all your Actions, then e.g. gaining a Silver is relatively weak compared to +3 +1 Buy).
The main issue is that once you green, Bellwether becomes unplayable (so why did you buy it in the first place instead of Woodcutter?). This could be fixed via reducing the upper limit of Coin generation while creating the new problem of Province rushing (Alice play Bellwether, Bob reveals Province, Bob and Charlie gain a Province, Alice uses the 8 Coins and the Buy to buy a Province).


Consulate by King Leon
Perhaps I am missing something but this looks too weak.
Suppose you gain a Curse to hand and are able to trash it during the same turn. Then this is better than Sea Hag (one more Coin).
Suppose you gain a Curse to hand and are unable to trash it during the same turn. Then this is worse than Fortune Teller (one less Coin).
Suppose you gain a Copper to hand and don't trash it. Then this is like a terminal Silver that comes with a downside for everybody.
Gaining $3s to hand seems OK but not that brilliant (unless you are able to pull off tricks familar from Messenger like Humble Castle).
Making the card a terminal Silver would be one way to potentially fix it.


Arson/Damages by Commodore Chuckles
We know the downgrading idea from Saboteur and Swindler and this looks like a fun combination of a trashing/junking attack. A definite favourite.
At 4 this looks at the first glance pretty strong. But if you open with this, at first play Arson is nearly always worse than Swindler: If you hit Copper, they gain a Ruins instead of a Curse and if you hit Estate, they get something better instead of another Estate.
I like that the Damages are not random such that you can pick whatever weakish engine piece you need. You can even imagine a Kingdom without any extra Buys in which you don't mind the first Arson hits that gift you Damaged Workshops.
The power level varies: Damaged Laboratory looks pretty strong whereas Damaged Estates is weak (but in a Shepherd game ...). But as you can always choose, this is no issue.

Corrosion/Tarnished by mail-mi
The variability of the Curse substitutes is too low for my taste but the flexibility of the design (you could e.g. play with them in Kingdoms without Corrosion to nerf Cursers slightly) is neat.
I don't have much too say, this is simply a good design. The Tarnished cards are on average slightly nerfed Curses and Corrosion is sound. On a sidenote, for practical reasons I'd make Corrosion a Reserve card (although 4 types are always visually crammed). A card on the Tavern mat is easier to track than a card in set-aside-nirvana.


Red Tide/Barnacle by NoMoreFun
This is a great implementation of the 'block pile' idea but Red Tide is a bit too weak.
What can I say, Barnacle is just lovely. It is clean and you immediately get it (gotta pay $1 more, get a junk card that you can get rid off).
But Red Tide is probably too weak. Armory is not the greatest gainer, you'd rather have Ironworks or Devil's Workshop, and the other two $5 Workshop variants, i.e. Cobbler and Sculptor, always gain to hand. The pile-blocking can of course be used strategically, e.g. if you know that the opponent(s) are in dire need of a village, but it can also be neutral if they don't buy Barnacle and gain what they need via Red Tide.


Brazen Bull by Fragasnap
Weird card with a negative self-synergy.
So it a Treasure-Curser that you can defend against via playing an engine.
Power-level seems roughly OK but in the opening and early middlegame it will often hit and being nonterminal is pretty strong.
A 5/2 opening is likely even more game-deciding than Mountebank whose "defense option" is likely easier to trigger.
Curse being a dead card matters usually more than negative VPs and while I like the variable, negative VPs, I am no fan of the quick, early, non-terminal cursing.


Gremlin by faust
A beautiful design with a potential nice nice minigame in non-mirrors about making a crucial engine piece a self-Hexer.
I love above all that this card creates new junk via just one token (instead of 30 new cards) and that, depending on what $2 card is Jinxed, play will vary a lot over Kingdoms (which isn't something one can say about all junkers).
Some folks who commented minded the Hexaganza but hey, nobody forces you to play 7 Hamlets in a row. That's the point of the card. If the Jinxed card is a cantrip, will you really play every card? Tricky decision.


Totem by Gubump
An interesting shot at a card with a very unusual cursing condition that suffers from making the 'deflect the attack' type of issue that is a big no for Reaction cards.
If Totem is in the Kingdom, nobody would ever gain another Curser. So all this does is to convert gainers or +1 Buy into cursing.
The economy is pretty strong, even if Totem misses a shuffle. But one has to keep in mind that this becomes dead once the Cursers are out.
I preferred the first version that always curses yourself, even though that suffered from being too scripted (in a 2P game, gain 2 Totems, first is a Cursed Gold, if Curses are distributed symmetrically you will play them a total of 7 times).


Plague Doctor/Plague by kru5h
Soothsayer and Patron had a love child.
This looks pretty strong. Sure, nobody loves Silver but the hand-gaining can be nearly as good as Soothsayer's Gold while the opponent doesn't draw a card but can be rather junked again.
I like that the Silvers act as defense against Plague Doctor but like Soothsayer, the Treasure gaining can hurt strategically.


Diplomatic Gift by anordinaryman
A very clean design that magically pulls off junkifying Silver, trashing and (quasi-)junking.


Charlatan by naitchman
A straightforward Swindler-Militia mixture.
Now you got a reason to stick with those Estates. After Charlatan has hit often enough and the Estate pile is empty, you might find Hamlets and can unleash the blue dogs from your former home.
This looks sound and it reduces the randomness of Swindler. But I think that in 2P games (in 3P games, chances are higher that a second Charlatan is played such that one opponent is down to 3) I'd more often than not prefer Swindler or Militia over this.


Lancers by Kudasai
A balanced cantrip junker (already a bit of a design miracle to pull that off) that requires precise or non-mirror play to defend against.
The obvious question is whether this is good enough in a non-mirror. On the one hand, nonterminal draw for less than $5 is always in high demand. On the other hand, a semi-Lab for $4 is a bit weaker than Caravan.
But there is also a meta/strategy benefit if the opponents forsake Lancers: you are safe from the junking attack and can play Lancers more freely, i.e. without worrying about whether the Journey token is up or not.
Basically this card has these two built-in defenses: don't get Lancers and be safe, or get enough Lancers to make the Journey token be up more often. This implies sometimes having to decide to not play the last Lancer in hand and this very agonizing decision looks very appealing to me.


Metamorphosis by spineflu
This is too Kingdom-dependent, on average too weak and the on-buy junking is borderline pointless. It is a challenge about junking so that junking should be slightly more central.
Without Potion cards the only constructive thing this does is to convert Curses/Ruins into Coppers and Estates into stuff like blue dogs.
Suppose it is an Alchemist Kingdom. You'd rather buy Alchemist immediately instead of a stop card that can remodel Silvers into Alchemists.
Suppose it is a Scrying Pool Kingdom. Then being able to Remodel those Estates into Scrying Pools is quite sweet.
Suppose it is a Vineyard Kingdom. Then you definitely want this and you'll get the Potion earlier than you would otherwise.
This is no Counting House, this is no subtle card that require skill to find combos in which it works. It rather advertises bluntly that it is only good with one of the 4 cheap Potion cards.


Stockpile by scolapasta
Self-cursing to nerf a card wasn't the idea of the challenge but this is a great implementation of a "reloadable" Gold.
In my opinion the latest version is the best. The second version does on average yield as much as Silver while gaining a Curse at third play. This seems pretty bad but averages aren't everything; if you open Stockpile you have a near fail-safe chance (Stockpile,Copper,Estate,Estate,Estate) to hit $5 after the first shuffle.
And the third version comes with a pyramid-scheme like reloading which we know from Lackeys.


Shyster by mandioca15
While the first version was broken, this can easily be too weak. Early on your will reveal Estates but e.g. in a mirror engine you got the best chances to hit if you reveal a village. But as Shyster doesn't draw, you want to play it last.


Racketeer by Gazbag
A Workshop-Curser, simple and good.
Playing with 2 Racketeers has a high opportunity cost and gainers always partially substitute extra Buys. But I nonetheless think that this might often enough Curse twice per turn.
That's why I'd consider making it a Copper junker. If it is too weak one can exchange the lines, such that this is basically guaranteed to junk 2 Coppers. That could be too strong though.
So yeah, the card already has a classical feel and I think that after some playtesting and perhaps some twitching it will become (or will turn out to already be) balanced and fun.


Scarab by majiponi
This is simply bad. There is a reason Magpies and Rats are cantrips.
You will sometimes keep your Necro and you can build a draw engine with Squire and Villa. But Squire+Smithy is like Peddler+Lab whereas Scarab+Smithy is just a Lab. In other words, villages that don't draw need a little extra to become decent.
You could argue that the "animal-style-procreation" thingy suffices as little extra but I have serious doubts. In a 2P games, Bob could simply not play along and those 10 Scarabs will hurt Alice far earlier and harsher than those 10 Curses will hurt Bob.



Runner-up: Lancers by Kudasai
Winner: Gremlin by faust

PS: I don't know whether it is mere coincidence but both of these cards imply having to make agonizing decisions. That's not always the case in Dominion, the focus is often more on what to gain than what to play.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:01:33 am by segura »
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Gubump

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2791 on: July 18, 2019, 10:31:17 am »
0

Totem by Gubump
An interesting shot at a card with a very unusual cursing condition that suffers from making the 'deflect the attack' type of issue that is a big no for Reaction cards.
If Totem is in the Kingdom, nobody would ever gain another Curser. So all this does is to convert gainers or +1 Buy into cursing.

"When you would gain a curse during your turn." It doesn't deflect, you're intended to have to Curse yourself, to prevent it from being too strong compared to Gold. (Although tbh, I didn't even like my own submission. I'm not very good at making attacks/junkers.)

I'd also like to point out that Gremlin only requires the Jinxed token to start on a -cost. You can move it to any Action pile, including Gremlin itself.

Anyway, congrats, faust! My issues with it aside, Gremlin was my personal favorite, too.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 07:56:08 pm by Gubump »
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scolapasta

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2792 on: July 18, 2019, 11:50:22 am »
0

Stockpile by scolapasta
Self-cursing to nerf a card wasn't the idea of the challenge but this is a great implementation of a "reloadable" Gold.
In my opinion the latest version is the best. The second version does on average yield as much as Silver while gaining a Curse at third play. This seems pretty bad but averages aren't everything; if you open Stockpile you have a near fail-safe chance (Stockpile,Copper,Estate,Estate,Estate) to hit $5 after the first shuffle.
And the third version comes with a pyramid-scheme like reloading which we know from Lackeys.

Self-junking as a straightforward nerf/downside like with Cursed Gold is not in the spirit of the contest whereas a card that would sometimes junk the opponents and sometimes you would. Junkin on-gain or on-buy or conditional upon the presence of a token are fine whereas a choice-junker like Torturer would be rather borderline.

I don't want to make the parameters too tight, if you have a good idea just roll with it.

D'oh! I misread this initial "rule" as only straightforward junking / nerfing was not in the spirit, so thought this would qualify since it was conditional self junking. Reading it again, I can see why it's not what was meant - self junking would be ok if there was also some sort of opponent junking.

(on the other hand, it did get some positive votes, so maybe I wasn't the only one who misread... :)

Oh well, I'm glad the card got decent reviews, and I can at least plan to use again in a future, more appropriate, challenge.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2793 on: July 18, 2019, 01:52:16 pm »
+1

Consulate by King Leon
Perhaps I am missing something but this looks too weak.
Suppose you gain a Curse to hand and are able to trash it during the same turn. Then this is better than Sea Hag (one more Coin).
Suppose you gain a Curse to hand and are unable to trash it during the same turn. Then this is worse than Fortune Teller (one less Coin).
Suppose you gain a Copper to hand and don't trash it. Then this is like a terminal Silver that comes with a downside for everybody.
Gaining $3s to hand seems OK but not that brilliant (unless you are able to pull off tricks familar from Messenger like Humble Castle).
Making the card a terminal Silver would be one way to potentially fix it.
This card is actually a terminal Gold if you gain Silver to the hand. I tried +$1 +1 Action and +$2, but both variants were too strong.
Also a terminal Silver which "Sea Hag"s a Copper would be too strong, if it costed $3. So $4 is the correct price.

Runner-up: Lancers by Kudasai
Winner: Gremlin by faust
Anyway, congratulations to faust, Kudasai and all other participants.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 01:56:23 pm by King Leon »
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2794 on: July 18, 2019, 04:45:12 pm »
0

Thanks for choosing Gremlin!

I think it could still use some tweaking that I didn't get around to. Maybe I'll revisit it soon.

Anyways, for now, there should be a new challenge. Here it goes: Design a card or card-shaped object that comes with an existing Heirloom.

So the card should include the Heirloom in the normal way, replacing a starting Copper. Of course there should be some mechanical reason for having it come with the Heirloom.
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math

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2795 on: July 18, 2019, 04:55:31 pm »
0

Thanks for choosing Gremlin!

I think it could still use some tweaking that I didn't get around to. Maybe I'll revisit it soon.

Anyways, for now, there should be a new challenge. Here it goes: Design a card or card-shaped object that comes with an existing Heirloom.

So the card should include the Heirloom in the normal way, replacing a starting Copper. Of course there should be some mechanical reason for having it come with the Heirloom.

Clarification: this is about designing a new card but pairing it with an Heirloom that is already in the game?
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faust

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2796 on: July 18, 2019, 04:56:35 pm »
0

Thanks for choosing Gremlin!

I think it could still use some tweaking that I didn't get around to. Maybe I'll revisit it soon.

Anyways, for now, there should be a new challenge. Here it goes: Design a card or card-shaped object that comes with an existing Heirloom.

So the card should include the Heirloom in the normal way, replacing a starting Copper. Of course there should be some mechanical reason for having it come with the Heirloom.

Clarification: this is about designing a new card but pairing it with an Heirloom that is already in the game?
Yes, exactly. It is not intended that you create new Heirlooms.
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King Leon

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2797 on: July 18, 2019, 06:10:14 pm »
+5



Meadow
Type: Action
Cost: $2
Heirloom: Goat

You may gain a Meadow. If you didn’t: +1 Card +1 Action
-
When you trash this, +3 Coffers
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:11:26 pm by King Leon »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2798 on: July 18, 2019, 07:48:09 pm »
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Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #2799 on: July 18, 2019, 10:06:51 pm »
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This is way too strong. Even if it was terminal, it would still compare favorably to Witch.
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