Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 170  All

Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest Thread  (Read 133231 times)

1 Member and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Fly-Eagles-Fly

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 370
  • Respect: +158
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #275 on: October 16, 2018, 11:33:43 am »
+1

I wanted to try making an Event with variable cost.
Just letting you know, it says 'The image you are requesting does not exist or is no longer available.'
Edit: Nevermind, you fixed it already.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:35:59 am by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8122
  • Respect: +8897
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #276 on: October 16, 2018, 12:06:48 pm »
0

I wanted to try making an Event with variable cost.



Neat. One thing I don't like about the cost ratios are that if you plan to buy 2 cards this turn, there's absolutely no difference between buying 2 cards outright, or buying this event once and then buying those 2 cards.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

faust

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2568
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3543
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #277 on: October 16, 2018, 12:13:41 pm »
0

I wanted to try making an Event with variable cost.


Doesn't this just give you buys for free? (as long as the cards you buy are expensive enough) The first one finances itself if you buy 2 cards, and each subsequent one will even make a net profit.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8122
  • Respect: +8897
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #278 on: October 16, 2018, 12:16:57 pm »
0

I wanted to try making an Event with variable cost.


Doesn't this just give you buys for free? (as long as the cards you buy are expensive enough) The first one finances itself if you buy 2 cards, and each subsequent one will even make a net profit.

It doesn't reduce the costs of Events; only Cards. So to buy it twice, you would need on hand (and then you'd get a refund of for each card you bought).

*Edit* I mean, yes, if you have enough money to spend, and are going to use up all your buys, then this does indeed give you more free money and buys. But it's a "rich get richer" type thing; it could turn into if you are going to buy 3 cards, or turn into if you are going to buy 4 cards, etc. But you need a lot of to start with to use it more than a couple times.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:20:24 pm by GendoIkari »
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

faust

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2568
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3543
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #279 on: October 16, 2018, 12:22:18 pm »
0

Of course you need the cash to buy multiple cards; the same thing is also true if you, you know, just want to buy multiple cards. This card just makes it so whenever you want an extra buy, you can have it (modulo buying other Events or things already costing $0).
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +375
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #280 on: October 16, 2018, 12:53:25 pm »
0

As faust has pointed out, this is broken as it does more than give you Buys for free (which would already be broken). You could e.g. get 4 Provinces for 29 (instead of 32 and 3 extra Buys ) and 8 Provinces for 43 (instead of 64 and 7 extra Buys).
Travelling Fair style conversion of stuff into each other is fine but free beer isn't.


At a base price of $4 the Event would be OKish though:

# times you buy the Event - cumulated cost - benefit in Coins - net Coin yield - net Coin yield of Travelling Fair

1 |   4 |  2 | -2 | -2
2 |   9 |  6 | -3 | -4
3 | 14 | 12 | -2 | -6
4 | 20 | 20 |  0 | -8
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5269
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #281 on: October 16, 2018, 01:22:11 pm »
+3

I disagree with the notion that free stuff was automatically bad. Events that give you free stuff make you play a variant of Dominion where that stuff is free. Nothing broken about that.
As such, I don't think that giving you free coins if you already have many is broken, either. You now play a variant of Dominion where buying cards progressively makes further cards cheaper. All players are playing the same variant. There is no asymmetry here, it's not like only one player can have this. It's not random, the Event is there from the start, everybody knows it. It doesn't break the game, because no card except Ruins gives only a buy, so you don't just lose all that many decisions. Instead, you now are encouraged to go for a special strategy, which creates decisions.
Not making a statement about whether this would be fun, by the way. But variants aren't broken.

hypercube

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
  • Shuffle iT Username: xyrix
  • Respect: +312
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #282 on: October 16, 2018, 01:42:59 pm »
0

Indeed the event was intended to give you free money eventually; otherwise I don't think there would be an incentive to build up enough to buy it more than a couple of times. It's a fair point that a base cost of $2 maybe reduces how interesting the decisions are. I'll change it so that the base is $3 instead, that way you're breaking even if you buy it thrice (but can be doing better if you have other sources of +buy).
Logged
I have sigs off.

faust

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2568
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3543
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #283 on: October 16, 2018, 01:49:04 pm »
0

I disagree with the notion that free stuff was automatically bad. Events that give you free stuff make you play a variant of Dominion where that stuff is free. Nothing broken about that.
As such, I don't think that giving you free coins if you already have many is broken, either. You now play a variant of Dominion where buying cards progressively makes further cards cheaper. All players are playing the same variant. There is no asymmetry here, it's not like only one player can have this. It's not random, the Event is there from the start, everybody knows it. It doesn't break the game, because no card except Ruins gives only a buy, so you don't just lose all that many decisions. Instead, you now are encouraged to go for a special strategy, which creates decisions.
Not making a statement about whether this would be fun, by the way. But variants aren't broken.
Well agreed, but I don't think handing out buys for free improves the game, or is a particularly interesting variant. Delve is a nice variant, but the fact that buys are limited plays a pretty big part in what makes Dominion challenging.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +375
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #284 on: October 16, 2018, 02:04:43 pm »
0

Champion being played at turn 1 is indeed not broken but it would not lead to particularly interesting games. Same applies for Champion for Buys being played at turn 1.

There are deckbuilding games without Buy or Action restrictions and while I don't dislike playing a match of Star Realms from time to time the lack of these very restrictions makes the Ascension/Star Realms/Hero Realms family of deckbuilding games extremely fluffy.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8122
  • Respect: +8897
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #285 on: October 16, 2018, 02:04:50 pm »
0

Right, thinking more about the math, I agree with Faust and disagree with my earlier post.

The problem here is that this event as costed completely removes "+buy" as a resource in the game. It almost reads "in games using this, you can buy any number of cards per turn". That just removes a full part of Dominion strategy.

Now, it IS interesting that it allows you to afford more if you are buying more. Making it so that you can buy 2 cards with only would be interesting, because it's less obvious if you should buy a Province or not. But I feel like it should still make you earn your +buys with other cards to at least some extent. Maybe the event itself can give +2 buys only the first time it is bought.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +375
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #286 on: October 16, 2018, 02:29:32 pm »
0

If you just want to make buying a lot of cards worthwhile you could simply cut the extra Buys and merely do a Event that does cost reduction:

$2
+1 Buy
This turn cards cost 1 less, but no less than 0.

If you buy 2 cards it does nothing, if you buy 3 it yields +2, if you buy 4 it yields +6 and so on.
I am still skeptical, there are probably many overpowered combinations if you implement cost reduction as an Event. There is Ferry so DXV probably thought about or tried general cost reduction in Event form for Adventures yet didn't do it for good reasons.


I'll change it so that the base is $3 instead, that way you're breaking even if you buy it thrice (but can be doing better if you have other sources of +buy).
At a base price of $3 the Event behaves like this:

# times you buy the Event - cumulated cost - benefit in Coins - net Coin yield - net Coin yield of Travelling Fair

1 |   3 |  2 | -1 | -2
2 |   7 |  6 | -1 | -4
3 | 12 | 12 |  0 | -6
4 | 18 | 20 |+2 | -8

same stuff with one extra Buy before you buy the Event:

1 |   3 |  3 |  0 | -2
2 |   7 |  8 | +1 | -4
3 | 12 | 15 | +3 | -6
4 | 18 | 24 | +6 | -8

I am still not a fan of free Buys and would advocate to use the $4 base price version as it makes Buys sometimes costly and thus makes the Event more similar to Travelling Fair. But at least this version is less crazy than the $2 monster.
Logged

hypercube

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
  • Shuffle iT Username: xyrix
  • Respect: +312
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #287 on: October 16, 2018, 02:43:18 pm »
0

The requirement to have $7, $12 etc. in hand to get free buys is nontrivial, it's definitely not the same thing as T1 Champion for Buys.
Logged
I have sigs off.

Holunder9

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 837
  • Respect: +375
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #288 on: October 16, 2018, 03:01:50 pm »
0

Situations in which you want to buy 3 cards while having less than $7 are rare. Namely piling or only 3 $2s.
Situations in which you buy more than 3 cards are pretty rare beyond endgame megaturns.
So I don't see the supposed general lack of a free lunch in the current version. As I showed above, the most you ever net pay is 1. Which is OK I guess, if you only buy one extra card the Event still competes with Travelling Fair.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 03:04:22 pm by Holunder9 »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8122
  • Respect: +8897
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #289 on: October 16, 2018, 03:03:00 pm »
0

The requirement to have $7, $12 etc. in hand to get free buys is nontrivial, it's definitely not the same thing as T1 Champion for Buys.

Well the exception of buying $0 cost cards was already given. Other than that, it is the same... buying 5 cards that don't cost zero has always had a requirement of having at least $5. Usually at least $10.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Chappy7

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 462
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +498
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #290 on: October 16, 2018, 04:54:07 pm »
0


Renovate

This doesn't need the ? in the cost, the on-buy effect works on its own.


Hmmm, well I guess it isn't a good entry for this one then.  I kinda like the card still though.  Now to think of a way to give it a real variable cost....
Logged

Tejayes

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
  • Respect: +122
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #291 on: October 16, 2018, 05:51:50 pm »
+1

I did not add the "During your turn" bit, though, because I want the cost to be the same for all players at all times.

You need that clause there to determine the timing, and with that clause, it would affect all the copies of Rare Earth, even those owned by other players. See Peddler.

Gotcha. Here we go:



Quote
Rare Earth
Treasure - $6*
--
When you play this, choose one: +$1 and gain a Rare Earth; or return this to the Supply for +$1 equal to its cost in $.
-
During your turn, this costs $1 less for every two copies of Rare Earth in the Supply (round down).
[\quote]
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1070
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1387
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #292 on: October 16, 2018, 07:31:18 pm »
+3

Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 694
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +900
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #293 on: October 16, 2018, 07:50:54 pm »
+2

Hmm this was going to be my entrant this week but it looks like faust beat me to it with the Artifact thing. I also get the feeling that people will prefer faust's anyway because this is kind of a lazy design...
 

I'll use this instead because it maybe has some shock-factor:
Logged

Kudasai

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 445
  • Respect: +239
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #294 on: October 16, 2018, 08:37:54 pm »
0

I'll use this instead because it maybe has some shock-factor:


I really like Highland, but I can't wait for people to trash on this! Maybe it's all my pent-up rage from failing to make a decent Great Hall variant. :P

At first glance though I can this working. Hard to actually tell without playtesting though. Excited to see if this works!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 03:41:57 am by Kudasai »
Logged

Fly-Eagles-Fly

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 370
  • Respect: +158
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #295 on: October 16, 2018, 09:49:36 pm »
0

Hmm this was going to be my entrant this week but it looks like faust beat me to it with the Artifact thing. I also get the feeling that people will prefer faust's anyway because this is kind of a lazy design...
 
No lazier looking than Flag Bearer. I actually like it, though it is very simple.
Logged

ClouduHieh

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
  • Shuffle iT Username: ClouduHieh
  • Respect: +83
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #296 on: October 16, 2018, 11:10:48 pm »
0

https://i.imgur.com/KMtpb08.jpg

Dragonís hoard

I finally figured out how to post to imgur, however the link is the only way I am able to show you the card. I hope this is good enough for you guys.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:13:07 pm by ClouduHieh »
Logged

Tejayes

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
  • Respect: +122
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #297 on: October 16, 2018, 11:20:01 pm »
0

https://i.imgur.com/KMtpb08.jpg

Dragonís hoard

I finally figured out how to post to imgur, however the link is the only way I am able to show you the card. I hope this is good enough for you guys.

Surround the link with these tags: [ img width=200][ /img] (remove the spaces), and that will let it show. Like this:

[ img width=200]https://i.imgur.com/KMtpb08.jpg[ /img]

Without the spaces, it becomes this:

Logged

vishwathg

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 71
  • Respect: +88
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #298 on: October 16, 2018, 11:32:44 pm »
0

https://i.imgur.com/KMtpb08.jpg

Dragonís hoard

I finally figured out how to post to imgur, however the link is the only way I am able to show you the card. I hope this is good enough for you guys.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the dividing line shouldn't be there?
Logged

ClouduHieh

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 483
  • Shuffle iT Username: ClouduHieh
  • Respect: +83
    • View Profile
Re: Weekly Design Contest Thread
« Reply #299 on: October 16, 2018, 11:45:37 pm »
0



Iím not sure what you mean I just did it like you did but obviously nothing happened. It only removed the link. Iím doing this with an ipad maybe I canít do it with an iPad.
Hereís the image without the line.
https://i.imgur.com/GdYUXUR.jpg

« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 03:05:02 am by ClouduHieh »
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 10 11 [12] 13 14 ... 170  All
 

Page created in 0.119 seconds with 21 queries.