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Author Topic: Dwarf split pile  (Read 327 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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Dwarf split pile
« on: September 08, 2018, 12:44:33 am »
0

(split pile with 5 of each)
Quote
Dwarf
$5 - Action
Gain a treasure card costing up to $5. You may put it on top of your deck. Then +2 Cards.
-
When you would trash this, you may instead trash a treasure card from your hand or discard pile.
Quote
Mithril Bar
$5 - Treasure
If you have a Dwarf in play, +$3. Otherwise, +$2.
-
When you would trash this, you may instead trash a treasure card from your hand or discard pile.

They're meant to go against Giants. That's part of the reason for the reaction.
I wanted Dwarf to cost $4, but it's usually better than Explorer. In fact, this split pile is basically an Explorer variant.

faust

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2018, 02:15:23 am »
+1

In fact, this split pile is basically an Explorer variant.
Well I guess they can't all be the best split pile ever.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2018, 02:56:23 am »
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Costing the same requires fudging the official rules for split piles, which state that the cheaper card always goes on top.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2018, 08:17:11 am »
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I'd buff Mithril Bar via an extra Buy or +$4 if a Dwarf has been revealed.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2018, 09:25:56 am »
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Costing the same requires fudging the official rules for split piles, which state that the cheaper card always goes on top.

Is this an official rule, or simply something all split piles have followed so far?
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Holunder9

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 09:34:05 am »
+3

Costing the same requires fudging the official rules for split piles, which state that the cheaper card always goes on top.

Is this an official rule, or simply something all split piles have followed so far?
There is a line about it in the Empires rulebook but it doesn't matter at all as the usual rule of most card games is after all that whatever is written on cards overrules what is written in the rulebook (e.g. the rulebook says that you can only buy cards in the Buy phase whereas Black Market says, nope, you can do it after having played me). So while the order of cards in the split pile is pointed out by the randomizer card everything is fine.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2018, 08:02:19 am »
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$4 Dwarf isn't strictly better than Explorer as it can't gain Gold to hand, nor Bureaucrat as it lacks the attack. It would compare very well to those cards, but it isn't strictly better.

I'd like to see how well $4 Explorer without the Gold option does in a simulator.
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Holunder9

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2018, 08:16:19 am »
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$4 Dwarf isn't strictly better than Explorer as it can't gain Gold to hand, nor Bureaucrat as it lacks the attack. It would compare very well to those cards, but it isn't strictly better.

I'd like to see how well $4 Explorer without the Gold option does in a simulator.
Pretty badly. It's more or less the same as a terminal Silver that gains a Silver. Squire is a terminal Copper that gains a Silver but can also do 3 other things which justify its existence. Lucky Coin is a non-terminal Copper that gains a Silver which isn't on average that much weaker than Explorer and look how often you wanna play that card.

Or look how often you appreciate getting a Silver via opponent's Governor. Silver gaining is simply not the most brilliant thing out there in modern Dominion and, given Bureaucrat, arguably was never that good in the first place.
If Bureucrat's attack hits it is more or less the same as Explorer gaining a Silver to hand, if you wanna argue that, compared to handgaining, the topdecking is like -1 Card and Bureaucrat's attack is also like -1 Card.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 01:49:16 am »
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I'd buff Mithril Bar via an extra Buy or +$4 if a Dwarf has been revealed.
I don't really want to give it +buy. One possibility I thought of making it stronger would be to make it +$3 and +1VP token if you have a Dwarf in play.

$4 Dwarf isn't strictly better than Explorer as it can't gain Gold to hand, nor Bureaucrat as it lacks the attack. It would compare very well to those cards, but it isn't strictly better.

I'd like to see how well $4 Explorer without the Gold option does in a simulator.
I didn't say strictly better. I said usually better. Do you think Dwarf would be fine costing $4?

Also, it seems to me that buffing Mithril would also be buffing Dwarf because Dwarf can gain Mithril once the Dwarves are empty, which makes me reluctant to buff Mithril if I can cost Dwarf at $4 as-is.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 01:55:15 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dwarf split pile
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2018, 11:53:29 pm »
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I wanted to slightly weaken Dwarf before I made it cost , and I thought of a way to do that.
Quote
Dwarf
- Action
Gain a treasure card costing up to . Either put the gained treasure in your hand, or +2 Cards.
-
When you would trash this, you may instead trash a treasure card from your hand or discard pile.
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