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Author Topic: Watchtower+Market Square  (Read 563 times)

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vishwathg

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Watchtower+Market Square
« on: August 31, 2018, 02:46:34 pm »
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Okay, another question. Someone gives you a curse. You trash it with Watchtower. Can you discard Market Squares? Specifically, when exactly does a card become yours?

Also, if you buy a Copper and trash it with Watchtower, can you discard Market Squares? My reasoning is that the answer might be different since buying and gaining are two separate actions, in the non-Dominion sense of the word. (Right?)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 02:47:57 pm by vishwathg »
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Holunder9

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 03:03:41 pm »
+1

I am no rules expert but I think the timing is like this: you gain a Curse, so it becomes one of your cards (there is no "card nirvana" in which the Curse ever is which is what you probably supposed with Watchtower), then you reveal Watchtower to trash it and then you can trigger Market Square.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 03:36:18 pm »
+1

Watchtower only reacts to gaining cards, which means by the time you use it, you have already gained the card. So it is yours, and you can use Market Square's reaction also. It doesn't matter if it is gained as a result of buying it, or as a result of some other gain effect.
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aku_chi

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 03:59:39 pm »
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The rulings on Inheritance confirm that a card is yours for on-gain triggers and for on-buy triggers.  The latter is unintuitive to me.
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Donald X.

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 09:04:59 pm »
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The rulings on Inheritance confirm that a card is yours for on-gain triggers and for on-buy triggers.  The latter is unintuitive to me.
My feeling was that many players would think you got the when-buy triggers, because they don't so much distinguish between when-gain and when-buy. Really I shouldn't have done when-buy triggers at all.
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werothegreat

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 12:46:11 pm »
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After you buy the Copper you gain it.  And it is yours.  I'm not really seeing why this might provoke confusion.
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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 01:00:14 pm »
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After you buy the Copper you gain it.  And it is yours.  I'm not really seeing why this might provoke confusion.

But while you buy it?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Erick648

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 02:11:37 pm »
+8

The rulings on Inheritance confirm that a card is yours for on-gain triggers and for on-buy triggers.  The latter is unintuitive to me.
To be fair, in real life, there's a legal principle called equitable conversion that says that when you sign a contract to buy a piece of real estate, it counts as yours (for some purposes) as soon as you make the contract, even if you're not going to be deeded the property until later. 

In other words, when you buy an estate IRL (at least in certain countries and cases), it becomes yours on-buy, and not just on-gain.
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werothegreat

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 05:14:55 pm »
+1

After you buy the Copper you gain it.  And it is yours.  I'm not really seeing why this might provoke confusion.

But while you buy it?

For the purposes of Watchtower and Market Square, the question of whether or not you own a card while you're buying it doesn't matter.  It only matters for Inheritance.
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ipofanes

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2018, 08:34:21 am »
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Really I shouldn't have done when-buy triggers at all.

I am not sure if I understand this right, but being able to raid Defiled Shrine on gain of a Curse would make cursers look quite unattractive.
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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2018, 09:29:31 am »
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Really I shouldn't have done when-buy triggers at all.

I am not sure if I understand this right, but being able to raid Defiled Shrine on gain of a Curse would make cursers look quite unattractive.

I guess the idea would be to not make Defiled Shrine in the first place if on-buy triggers were not a thing. Same thing for any card that is broken somehow if it's on-buy trigger was an on-gain trigger.
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ipofanes

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2018, 10:13:44 am »
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Would Farmland domino with nine Militias in hand be too dominating?
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vishwathg

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2018, 01:36:53 pm »
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Would Farmland domino with nine Militias in hand be too dominating?

Hey, you stole my idea! A Remodel and a Rats with a deck full of Rats would work too.
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Donald X.

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2018, 04:38:37 pm »
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Really I shouldn't have done when-buy triggers at all.

I am not sure if I understand this right, but being able to raid Defiled Shrine on gain of a Curse would make cursers look quite unattractive.
I would get to tweak all existing when-buy cards, or not do them. I certainly couldn't just replace "buy" with "gain" on all of them and have that work out fine.

For Defiled Shrine, the obv. thing to try is "when you gain a Curse during your turn."
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Donald X.

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2018, 04:41:54 pm »
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Would Farmland domino with nine Militias in hand be too dominating?
Farmland was originally when-gain, and the domino-ing confused people, plus there was Fortress. Haggler was also when-gain once ("other than via a Haggler"), and I have talked before about "Haggler explosions," where you would suddenly gain 8 cards due to these effects triggering off of each other.
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ipofanes

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2018, 10:33:23 am »
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Really I shouldn't have done when-buy triggers at all.

I am not sure if I understand this right, but being able to raid Defiled Shrine on gain of a Curse would make cursers look quite unattractive.
I would get to tweak all existing when-buy cards, or not do them. I certainly couldn't just replace "buy" with "gain" on all of them and have that work out fine.

For Defiled Shrine, the obv. thing to try is "when you gain a Curse during your turn."

After all, you can always buy the Curse yourself when playing Swamp Hag (and having one single card-shaped thing suffer from one single another does not spoil the fun).
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ipofanes

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2018, 10:35:18 am »
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Farmland ... plus there was Fortress.

In your mind, back then.
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Donald X.

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Re: Watchtower+Market Square
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2018, 04:04:15 pm »
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Farmland ... plus there was Fortress.

In your mind, back then.
No, Fortress (as "Border Village") was in a version of "War" (in some sense turned into Dark Ages) before the base game was published. And Farmland (as "New Wing") was in Hinterlands at the same time.
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