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Author Topic: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage  (Read 369 times)

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ObtusePunubiris

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Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« on: August 29, 2018, 02:17:30 pm »
+3

I had a scenario come up last night that appeared to have two plausible paths to resolution.

With a Royal Carriage already on my Tavern Mat, I played an Imp, drew 2 cards and then using Imp's ability, played a Border Village.  I then wanted to call my RC to replay the just resolved action, but wasn't sure which of the 2 action I had just resolved.

--Imp as a trigger for the play of BV
Was Imp fully resolved as soon as I put BV in play, but before BV was resolved, meaning that RC could only replay BV?

OR

--Imp as a container for the play of BV
Was Imp not resolved until after the card it allowed me to play was resolved, meaning that RC could replay either BV or Imp?

We went with the first option, but agreed it was worth looking into further.  RC's use of "Action card" rather than just "Action" makes me think we made the right call, but when I think of similar scenarios with Golem, TR or KC, I'm unsure.

Thanks in advance.

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jonts26

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2018, 02:26:49 pm »
+8

Think of it like

Play Imp
  -Play BV
  -BV resolved
Imp resolved

You can stick the RC call after either of the resolutions, so it could be called right after resolving BV but before resolving imp to play the BV again, or after resolving imp to call imp again.

A neat side effect of this is if you play an imp and play an RC.

Play Imp
  -Play RC
  -Resolve RC
Resolve Imp

At this point, you can call the RC you just played to play the imp again. Or, if you don't call RC, you can play another imp to play another RC, since the first RC is not in play.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 02:35:21 pm by jonts26 »
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2018, 04:09:13 pm »
0

Got it.  What you describe (what I called the container scenario) is how I thought it should work last night, but my opponent felt more strongly about his interpretation than I did mine, so we went with his.  Glad to know I was right.  Thanks.
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Jeebus

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2018, 01:44:52 pm »
0

Obviously this was expertly answered. I just want to add that comparing to Golem and TR, like you said, was a good idea. When you resolve Golem, it tells you to play a card, and after that is when you can call Royal Carriage to replay that card. But Golem can't be resolved at this point, because it still has one more instruction (play another card). The same is true of TR. It's even clearer with Procession and Disciple, which tell you to first play a card, then play it again, and then do one more thing (trashing/gaining).

GendoIkari

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2018, 02:52:26 pm »
0

Obviously this was expertly answered. I just want to add that comparing to Golem and TR, like you said, was a good idea. When you resolve Golem, it tells you to play a card, and after that is when you can call Royal Carriage to replay that card. But Golem can't be resolved at this point, because it still has one more instruction (play another card). The same is true of TR. It's even clearer with Procession and Disciple, which tell you to first play a card, then play it again, and then do one more thing (trashing/gaining).

I don't think this works actually. The scenario in question was with Imp, not Throne Room; which does have the "play a card" as its final instruction. The Golem comparison would be to the second card that Golem plays, not the first, when there is no longer an instruction to follow.
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Jeebus

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2018, 05:39:48 pm »
+2

I see what you mean, and maybe I just made everything seem more confusing.

The original question was whether (a) Imp was fully resolved as soon as the chosen card was put into play, or (b) the chosen card was part of resolving Imp. Golem, TR, etc, are other cards that tell you to play a card as part of their instructions. By looking at how they work, we see that the answer has to be b, since such a card can have other instructions too, coming after.

In other words, I assumed that the confusion arose because Imp happened to have "play a card" as its final instruction, but since it's obvious that "play a card" has to behave the same in all instances, Golem and TR tell us that it's always part of resolving the original card.

It's kind of related to the old "+1 Action means I play an Action card now" misunderstanding.

chipperMDW

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2018, 08:42:54 pm »
+4

In other words, I assumed that the confusion arose because Imp happened to have "play a card" as its final instruction, but since it's obvious that "play a card" has to behave the same in all instances, Golem and TR tell us that it's always part of resolving the original card.

Dominion doesn't support tail call optimization.
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crj

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2018, 09:15:19 pm »
0

The rules themselves don't, but players are free to optimise provided they follow the as-if rule.
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ipofanes

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Re: Order of Resolution with Imp and Royal Carriage
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2018, 10:27:30 am »
0

Especially when playing Overlord, Inheritance or Band of Misfits.
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