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Author Topic: Anticipating Renaissance  (Read 1659 times)

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Holunder9

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Anticipating Renaissance
« on: August 28, 2018, 11:31:28 am »
0

While we are waiting on Renaissance it might be fun to come up with some cards that could match the expansion.

$4
Action
Trash a card from your hand. Take a number of Action tokens equal to its cost in Coins.


Nothing fancy, salvage for Action tokens. Could be too crazy.


$4
Action
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Pay any number of Coin tokens, then draw that many cards.


A village that converts Coin tokens into Card tokens and liquidates them.


$2
Event
You may do this more than once: convert 3 Coin tokens into 2 Victory tokens or vice versa.


OK, doesn't strictly match the expansion as it doesn't seem to include Events and Victory tokens.
This could be bonkers with Baker or even Plaza but at least early in the game you normally prefer 1 Coin token over 1 Victory token. So perhaps it is most interesting in Kingdoms with Victory tokens.


$5*
Artifact - Victory
At the start of each of your turns: You may trash a card from your hand. If you did not, +1 Card.
----------
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you did not overpay as much as there are Coin tokens on this, return it to the Supply. If you did, remove the Coin tokens on this and for each you overpaid, put a Coin token on this.
This costs 5 plus the number of Coin tokens on it.


The basic idea is that there is only one copy of each Artifact, that it is out-of-deck and that you can bid for it (not particularly creative as I have something similar in my fan cards set with Conjuration). If somebody bids more than you later though you lose it entirely.
I first wanted to do this as pure Victory card but realized that it is too similar to Mountain Pass and not dynamic enough; in most games somebody will pay a lot of for a lot of VPs late in the game lest somebody pays more. With this you have an incentive to go for it early, even if somebody takes it away from you a few turns later.
The wording is bad though as it only refers to buy and not gain as it should (unless you specify that Artifacts are something like Events, i.e. you can only buy them and then get the card-shaped thing in front of you).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 11:38:37 am by Holunder9 »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2018, 11:38:21 am »
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Your Village doesn't work, because it doesn't give a way to get Coffers. Sure it might still be fine as a vanilla Village for in a game without Coffers, but it would still be really weird.
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 11:41:48 am »
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Your Village doesn't work, because it doesn't give a way to get Coffers. Sure it might still be fine as a vanilla Village for in a game without Coffers, but it would still be really weird.
It is meant as a set-focused combo card. In total random it could suck even more than Mining Village.
One way to fix it would be a split pile but this is really more about pitching the idea of converting Coin tokens into draw.
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Simon Jester

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 11:43:37 am »
+1

Your Village doesn't work, because it doesn't give a way to get Coffers. Sure it might still be fine as a vanilla Village for in a game without Coffers, but it would still be really weird.

Give it +1 coffers instead of +card should be an easy enough solution.

GendoIkari

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 01:28:36 pm »
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Your Village doesn't work, because it doesn't give a way to get Coffers. Sure it might still be fine as a vanilla Village for in a game without Coffers, but it would still be really weird.

Give it +1 coffers instead of +card should be an easy enough solution.

Perfect, if it's not too strong.
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kru5h

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 07:03:37 pm »
+3

I'll go with the obvious.

Maker, Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Take an Action token.
-
Setup: Each player starts with an Action token.

Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 03:20:31 am »
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I'll go with the obvious.

Maker, Action, $4
+1 Card
+1 Action
Take an Action token.
-
Setup: Each player starts with an Action token.
While I guess this Baker symmetry is partly in jest it is also interesting, it makes the card an itzy-bitzy tiny bit weaker as you have to go later for villages.

About Action tokens in general, based on Coin of the Realm I think it is safe to claim that the relative strength of Action tokens over Actions is larger than that of Coin tokens over Coins.
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2018, 10:10:30 am »
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$3
Action
You may discard an Action card. If you do, +2 Cards and take 2 Action tokens.


I already had the idea of this conditional village that requires you to discard another Action card for a while but it was too lackluster for a full card. With Action tokens it becomes more flavourful.


Here is a better, less risky version that is too bland for my taste:

$3
Action
+1 Card
+1 Action

You may discard an Action card. If you do, +1 Card and take an Action token.
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Kudasai

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 04:54:23 pm »
+1

I wonder if Action tokens will need to be used at the start of a player's Action phase versus whenever they want. I think the latter would ruin too many aspects of Dominion.
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 06:04:51 pm »
+1

Name Predictions: Bust/Statue, Epic, Scholar, Abbey/Cathedral, Artist, Theatre, Architect
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 01:59:51 am »
0

I wonder if Action tokens will need to be used at the start of a player's Action phase versus whenever they want. I think the latter would ruin too many aspects of Dominion.
Cards like Coin of the Realm and Sauna/Avanto (if you interpret Avanto drawing into Sauna as similar to Smithy with no Actions left drawing into other Action cards and then using an Action token) indicate a design direction that is fine with "whenever". But as always playtesting might have come to the conclusion that "whenever" is too strong.
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4est

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2018, 01:48:22 pm »
+3

I've always thought an Attack that interacted with coin tokens would be neat, though probably tricky to balance.  Maybe we'll get one in Renaissance!  Here's my stab at it:

$5
Action-Attack

+2 Coffers
Each other player may remove one token from their Coffers. If they don't, they gain a Curse.
---
When you gain this, each other player gets +1 Coffers.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 01:08:54 am »
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Name predictions: flea market, watch post/barracks and painter.
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trivialknot

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 01:55:45 am »
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What if you had a village that stopped working after a while, and then you had to rely on saved action tokens?

$3 Action
+1 Card, +1 Action.  If no supply piles are empty, +1 action token.
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crlundy

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2018, 02:47:58 pm »
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An idea I had years ago, but never tested it (wordings updated to reflect Villagers):

Quote
Action
Choose 1: +2 Villagers; or remove from 1 to 3 tokens from your Villagers mat, choose a card in your hand, and play that card once per token removed.

Here are some other ideas that are mostly trying to reverse-engineer the Teasers (probably wildly unbalanced or broken) and I'm not even going to try to guess costs:

Quote
Action - Duration
Now and the start of your next turn, choose one: +1 Card; +1 Coffers; or +1 Villager.

Quote
Treasure - Duration
For the rest of the game, at the start of your Buy phase: +$1, +1 Buy, and trash a card from your hand. (This stays in play.)

Quote
Action - Reaction
+1 Coffers. Trash a card from your hand.

When you trash a card, you may discard this, for +1 Coffers per $1 is costs.

Quote
Project? Artifact?
After the last turn this game, but before scoring: +1 Villager and take an extra turn.

Quote
Action
+2 Coffers. You may move any number of tokens from your Coffers to your Villagers mat.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 07:44:46 pm by crlundy »
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2018, 08:00:46 am »
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We haven't seen any terminal draw yet so here is a payload-draw mixture idea that is probably too strong. I guess +3 Coffers alone would already be OK for a $5:

$5
Action
+3 Coffers
You may remove any number of Coin tokens from your Coffers mat for +1 Card per Coin token removed.


and even stronger:

$5
Action
+3 Coffers
-----------------
While this is in play, directly after resolving an Action, you may remove any number of Coin tokens from your Coffers mat for +1 Card per Coin token removed.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 11:07:04 am »
+1

We haven't seen any terminal draw yet

Scholar? Silk Merchant?
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2018, 02:56:08 am »
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Ironmonger with tokens. No idea about whether it is good enough at $5 without the Spying.

$5
Action


Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an...
Action card, +1 Villager
Treasure card, +1 Coffers
Victory card, +1

+1 Card
+1 Action
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crlundy

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2018, 05:09:10 pm »
0

If it were in Renaissance, it couldn't have the VP tokens. :/ You could make it shorter too (but with a different interaction with -1 Card token): "+1 Action. Reveal the top card of your deck; you may put it into your hand. If it's anů"
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Kudasai

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2018, 06:36:20 pm »
0

I predict for one of the duration cards a way to gamble with your Villager tokens to get more Actions out of them. You could increase your Action gain by 100% from Village tokens, but if you don't end up using all of the Actions this card is essentially a waste. I'm not sure how useful +1 Card, +1 Villager is early game, but maybe useful enough to warrant this costing $4.



Also, I'm making an assumption on how the wording would go for using Villager tokens in this fashion. There is probably a more clean way to word this.

EDIT Mule Team(v0.2): Cost changed to $2 Coin from $3 Coin.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:04:15 pm by Kudasai »
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2018, 04:38:53 am »
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Not sure that this is good enough for $3. It net yields at most 2 Actions but it is spread over two turns.
Of course the general Duration logic applies, it good be great to have 2 extra Actions at the start of the next turn and one Action less at the current turn.
But I think that this isn't good enough to compensate for the usual Duration disadvantages. Perhaps buff it via allowing Villagers to be spend for 2 Actions in general next turn? Could of course become too crazy if paired with other cards that yields Villagers.
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Kudasai

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2018, 03:03:04 pm »
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Not sure that this is good enough for $3. It net yields at most 2 Actions but it is spread over two turns.
Of course the general Duration logic applies, it good be great to have 2 extra Actions at the start of the next turn and one Action less at the current turn.
But I think that this isn't good enough to compensate for the usual Duration disadvantages. Perhaps buff it via allowing Villagers to be spend for 2 Actions in general next turn? Could of course become too crazy if paired with other cards that yields Villagers.

I agree that it's not a strong card. Originally I had it at cost $2 Coin, but changed it last minute because I'm just unsure how good "+1 Card, +1 Villager" is. Probably not that great!

Allowing Villagers to gain +2 Actions for the whole turn would be a good buff, but it goes against the core mechanic I wanted for the card; gambling at the start of your turn on how many Actions you'll need for it. A friend suggested allowing multiple Villagers to be used at the start of the turn. This could be an option, but for now I'm inclined to just make it cost $2.

Thanks for the feedback and starting a fun thread!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 03:06:46 pm by Kudasai »
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Holunder9

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2018, 03:14:43 pm »
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Not sure that this is good enough for $3. It net yields at most 2 Actions but it is spread over two turns.
Of course the general Duration logic applies, it good be great to have 2 extra Actions at the start of the next turn and one Action less at the current turn.
But I think that this isn't good enough to compensate for the usual Duration disadvantages. Perhaps buff it via allowing Villagers to be spend for 2 Actions in general next turn? Could of course become too crazy if paired with other cards that yields Villagers.

I agree that it's not a strong card. Originally I had it at cost $2 Coin, but changed it last minute because I'm just unsure how good "+1 Card, +1 Villager" is. Probably not that great!

Allowing Villagers to gain +2 Actions for the whole turn would be a good buff, but it goes against the core mechanic I wanted for the card; gambling at the start of your turn on how many Actions you'll need for it. A friend suggested allowing multiple Villagers to be used at the start of the turn. This could be an option, but for now I'm inclined to just make it cost $2.

Thanks for the feedback and starting a fun thread!
Yeah, that's probably the best way forward. If you take a Duration Village as benchmark, i.e. +1 Card +1 Action | At the start of your next turn: +1 Action pricing this at $2 is probably right.
But there is the extra option, of this being +1 Card | At the start of your next turn: +2 Actions and the crucial question is probably whether this flexibility that Villagers provide is good enough to make this cost $3.

I guess that can only be determined via playtesting or playing Renaissance, once it is out, a lot to get a feeling for how good Villagers are.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2018, 06:14:55 pm »
0

+1 Card, +1 Villager is great as early game you will often not need to use the villager and can really accumulate them.

More likely I think we'll see

Villager Peddler
Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Villager
+$1

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GendoIkari

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Re: Anticipating Renaissance
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2018, 06:36:30 pm »
+1

+1 Card, +1 Villager is great as early game you will often not need to use the villager and can really accumulate them.

More likely I think we'll see

Villager Peddler
Action - $5
+1 Card
+1 Villager
+$1

Maybe? Nothing seems wrong with the card; as a basic Renaissance version of Baker. But even Baker had the setup clause to make it more interesting; That card seems too vanilla even for a set that focuses on simplicity.

Also, the teasers didn't mention a card with only 2 words.
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