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[Morgrim7]

Test vote: hydrad

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count, please

[LaLight]

Vote count 2.4

silverspawn (2): gkrieg13, Galzria
WestCoastDidds (2): silverspawn, Hydrad
Morgrim7 (1): chairs
Galzria (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan
SpaceAnemone (1): EFHW
DatSwan (1): WestCoastDidds
Hydrad (1): Morgrim7
Not voting (1): 2.71828.....

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends Thursday, 27th of September, at 4am

[chairs]

Brief check in and unvote

[EFHW]

unvote

[gkrieg13]

If I was Bart the SK, then it would be clear what to do, and the time to do it would be night 1.

vote: e for being uncharacteristically unreasonable

Uncharacteristically? This is one of my better early D1 cases

Forget the case. You should do the plan.

Rereading silver and thinking about it, the plan should have been supported by all.  SKs are bad for both town and scum, because they are unpredictable and swingy.  I think I'm leaning townie on people that resisted the plan and scummy on the people pushing the plan, but much less scummy for silver who probably would push the plan as either alignment.

[gkrieg13]

Ok I think we can safely conclude that the scumteam is e / EFHW / ashersky.

dayvig: EFHW

silver gives strong reads early, which is usually a town thing.

[gkrieg13]

~snip~ - I'm glad I'm actually town this game, so we can work together rather than me having to try to be deceiving. Unless you're scum. That would suck. - ~snip~

This kind of thing always is scummy to me.

[gkrieg13]

I don't think any plan suggested has been clearly scum-helping. Not if clearly means that almost all players would agree if they were honest.

Which is not to say that reactions aren't alignment indicative.

Let's lynch Awaclus vote: Awaclus

This could be forced sticking to meta, or just actual sticking to meta.

[gkrieg13]

Pretty sure it's the opposite. I have an easier time seeing a scum getting several potential flavor names than a town getting ... false other claims?

Tunnel continues on Awaclus after the flavor claims.

[gkrieg13]

ashersky, perhaps. vote: ash

He pops around on commonly mislynched peoples' wagons

[gkrieg13]

iguana is town and Awaclus is annoyingly probably town. the people to look at here are e and ... actually I don't know if anyone else is, really..

This is the quote preceding my last quote.

[Morgrim7]

unvote

[gkrieg13]

vote: chairs is reasonable

More voting for common mislynches.

[gkrieg13]

We only have 24 hours left until day one ends, people. I'm guessing that silver will end up being lynched which I guess I am okay with at this point, but I would rather lynch chairs. Or galz.

Also I am very impressed with you guys for not mislynching me yet, usually that has happened by now

I don't think I was ever particularly close to being lynched. Every game has a day 1 silver wagon, and it's always for reasons that, if they correlate with my alignment, do so negatively rather than positively. I don't think I've literally ever been lynched day 1 when I was scum, but a few times when I was town.

If nobody changes their votes in the next 20ish hours, you're gonna be lynched. I would say that is pretty close. Unlikely to happen (for better or for worse), but close nonetheless.

I mean I'm not particularly close to getting lynched, as in not any closer than any other day 1. But yes, people should change their votes, and reasonable people like e should stop being silly.

Is silver more likely to fight off a correct lynch or a mislynch?  Does anyone know off the top of their heads?

[gkrieg13]

Next item - Silver has had a lot going on around him, but I'm not sure that he's scum:

Last game I played with him, he was scum, and I correctly read him as scum D1. The gist of my case against him was that he was subtly trying to direct town. Here, he also has posts where he seems to be attempting to direct players opinions... but I find it to be much more forward, and much less subtle. Silver said at the end of his scum game that what I was reading in him D1 wasn't because he was scum, but it was just that I didn't understand they Bayesian style of his speech... but honestly, I don't feel like that's correct - or at least, I definitely see a difference between this game and that one. I just feel like when he was scum, he was very subtle in what he said/did, and that's not really the case here. I think he's getting in trouble for the same things - but I think it's a false positive read that others are picking up on.

I think you're wrong about that the things you pointed out in your day 1 case were scum indicative, but probably correct about my bluntness being town indicative. Of course I said in the past that I think of this as a reliable tell for me, and I have definitely tried to emulate that as scum in the past, but even so I think it's still a valid tell. Also, regardless of what exactly it is that I do differently as scum and town, "feels different" is a reasonable starting point.

I also think that I am pretty hard to read, but nonetheless, town recently does a particularly terrible job at it. I feel like I'm lynched relatively more often as town than scum. as soon as I get my program to detect that kind of stuff I'm going to check whether that's actually true.

All of this is saying that people are bad at reading you, which is exactly what you would say as scum when you were being scum read.

[gkrieg13]

i can jump on the kill new players strat. I think iguana brings up good points

Vote:WCD

Second, and on the topic of WCD/Iguana, this is, by far, the scummiest post in the entire game, and I'm surprised that nobody to this point has brought this up. It just reeks as opportunistic.

That's a very reasonable thing to conclude and would be correct for most players, but  I think it's  wrong here. Hydrad is super conventionally scummy as town and perhaps somewhat less scummy as scum. I once set myself the goal of trying to "figure out" one particular player and really develop accurate reads on them, and I ended up choosing Hydrad. It mostly didn't work because I still find him frustratingly difficult to read, but I am pretty sure that super scummy looking opportunistic votes are not scum indiciative.

This is a strange post where silver is just defending Hydrad.  Could be white knighting, IDK.

[gkrieg13]

oh yes yes yes vote: Awaclus

Goes back to Awaclus even after he had decided that his claim was townie.  This is by far the scummiest thing that I've found.

[gkrieg13]

I'll be here at deadline.

The Awaclus wagon looks really scummy to me. It's because he was here and then not here? That's not super incriminating. The first two people jumping on the wagon are the two alternative wagons, so that makes me feel better about those.

Awaclus wagons are always towny.

Not so subtle in trying to direct town.

[gkrieg13]

That is everything from D1.  I still think he is scum.  His positioning on the lynching Awaclus wagon after his earlier wagon fizzled when Awaclus had claimed, combined with the sudden change of read on Awaclus is very scummy.

[silverspawn]

i can jump on the kill new players strat. I think iguana brings up good points

Vote:WCD

Second, and on the topic of WCD/Iguana, this is, by far, the scummiest post in the entire game, and I'm surprised that nobody to this point has brought this up. It just reeks as opportunistic.

That's a very reasonable thing to conclude and would be correct for most players, but  I think it's  wrong here. Hydrad is super conventionally scummy as town and perhaps somewhat less scummy as scum. I once set myself the goal of trying to "figure out" one particular player and really develop accurate reads on them, and I ended up choosing Hydrad. It mostly didn't work because I still find him frustratingly difficult to read, but I am pretty sure that super scummy looking opportunistic votes are not scum indiciative.

This is a strange post where silver is just defending Hydrad.  Could be white knighting, IDK.

That's called actually sharing my honest assessment.

Next item - Silver has had a lot going on around him, but I'm not sure that he's scum:

Last game I played with him, he was scum, and I correctly read him as scum D1. The gist of my case against him was that he was subtly trying to direct town. Here, he also has posts where he seems to be attempting to direct players opinions... but I find it to be much more forward, and much less subtle. Silver said at the end of his scum game that what I was reading in him D1 wasn't because he was scum, but it was just that I didn't understand they Bayesian style of his speech... but honestly, I don't feel like that's correct - or at least, I definitely see a difference between this game and that one. I just feel like when he was scum, he was very subtle in what he said/did, and that's not really the case here. I think he's getting in trouble for the same things - but I think it's a false positive read that others are picking up on.

I think you're wrong about that the things you pointed out in your day 1 case were scum indicative, but probably correct about my bluntness being town indicative. Of course I said in the past that I think of this as a reliable tell for me, and I have definitely tried to emulate that as scum in the past, but even so I think it's still a valid tell. Also, regardless of what exactly it is that I do differently as scum and town, "feels different" is a reasonable starting point.

I also think that I am pretty hard to read, but nonetheless, town recently does a particularly terrible job at it. I feel like I'm lynched relatively more often as town than scum. as soon as I get my program to detect that kind of stuff I'm going to check whether that's actually true.

All of this is saying that people are bad at reading you, which is exactly what you would say as scum when you were being scum read.

I might have said it as scum, too. Because it's true. I've had day 1 wagons reliably every game for such a long time, it's annoying.

[silverspawn]

oh yes yes yes vote: Awaclus

Goes back to Awaclus even after he had decided that his claim was townie.  This is by far the scummiest thing that I've found.

If you think I only want to lynch awaclus as scum, you're, well, wrong.

[silverspawn]

That is everything from D1.  I still think he is scum.  His positioning on the lynching Awaclus wagon after his earlier wagon fizzled when Awaclus had claimed, combined with the sudden change of read on Awaclus is very scummy.

I changed my read because when I first said it was scummy I didn't even know he had flavor claimed. Then when someone pointed it out, I went back and saw it and agreed that it was probably more towny. So I can't push the lynch.  But then someone else (wasn't that you?) said they thought he was scum,  and I'm not going to not support an Awaclus lynch, so I supported it.

[gkrieg13]

oh yes yes yes vote: Awaclus

Goes back to Awaclus even after he had decided that his claim was townie.  This is by far the scummiest thing that I've found.

If you think I only want to lynch awaclus as scum, you're, well, wrong.

I think you always want to lynch awaclus as any alignment, I think you do it like you did here when you're scum.

[silverspawn]

Ok, differently how and how do you think you know that?