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[Awaclus]

In other news, scumpoints for those who've decided not to bother contributing to D1 until Ash has come back in with his grand plan.

I'm not waiting for ash to come back with his grand plan, I'm lurking for other reasons.

[ashersky]

Early reads:

igu is SK hunting, right.  Generally, SKs do it to hide in plain site, mafia do it because they want to eliminate a rival killing faction, and traitors do it to try to look scummy to unknown partners.  So early scum read.

No one else has done enough to earn a read.  Day passes were issued for reasons listed in that post.

[Awaclus]

As for plans...

I will present two.  Pick one, or both, or none.

1) Mass flavorclaim.  Because of course.  But really, because flavor is clearly very important and it either super helps a lot of players at night or doesn’t.  And if it does, I posit it helps more town players than scum players so reward is greater than risk.

2) Everyone who knows the flavor posts a list of the major possible characters and likely alignments based on their knowledge of LL.  Bonus points: guess possible mafia roles.  This gives us fodder to discuss and opportunities for players to be scummy.

These aren’t plans to solve the game; these are to kickstart it and provide scumhunting clues.

#2 is stupid. I'm not particularly for or against #1.

[ashersky]

(Aside: they are right about stalling being unnecessary; wrong about it being scummy.)

But how to you know that nobody who posted intent to wait for your plan wasn't scum taking advantage of the excuse to stall? I think most people would be marginally more likely to want to slow things down here as scum than as town. Yes, it's very marginal, but that's where the concept of scumpoints and townpoints comes in useful, even if you don't want to have to be a good Bayesian about these things.

I can’t know, I just think that the likelihood that scum does that more than town is slight, and I think that players are likely to do it more often based on personality, style, time freedom at the moment, and how they feel about me (the player, or my alignment this game).  If LL was playing, he’d have posted fourteen times about the good old days and definitely would wait to hear what I said just because he’s LL and enjoyed the games back then.

[SpaceAnemone]

As for plans...

I will present two.  Pick one, or both, or none.

1) Mass flavorclaim.  Because of course.  But really, because flavor is clearly very important and it either super helps a lot of players at night or doesn’t.  And if it does, I posit it helps more town players than scum players so reward is greater than risk.

2) Everyone who knows the flavor posts a list of the major possible characters and likely alignments based on their knowledge of LL.  Bonus points: guess possible mafia roles.  This gives us fodder to discuss and opportunities for players to be scummy.

These aren’t plans to solve the game; these are to kickstart it and provide scumhunting clues.

I think plan #1 could be a disaster because I think the flavour is pretty full of obvious good strong characters, and maybe guessable roles, so that just gives scum a shopping list of which people to kill of in which order (e.g. Iguana's theory about Bart being an SK, which seems not-at-all-implausible to me).

Plan #2 has more merit, because we're not directly revealing anything about QTs, but does leave people with less knowledge of flavour far too much off the hook as far as obligation to contribute goes. It probably offers up rather a lot of nice fake-claim ideas to scum as people start racking their brains for more minor characters who might be involved. After all, scum are the only ones who get the opportunity to calibrate how likely a set of roles is going to sound, given they've presumably had pre-game discussion and at least know each other's character names for comparison.

PPE 3

[silverspawn]

(Aside: they are right about stalling being unnecessary; wrong about it being scummy.)

But how to you know that nobody who posted intent to wait for your plan wasn't scum taking advantage of the excuse to stall? I think most people would be marginally more likely to want to slow things down here as scum than as town. Yes, it's very marginal, but that's where the concept of scumpoints and townpoints comes in useful, even if you don't want to have to be a good Bayesian about these things.

Indeed. I would go a bit further and say that this is one of the better scum tells, at least speaking from personal experience, because it's a case where the towny thing takes more effort than not doing anything, and it usually it won't impact your reputation. So it's tempting to just go the path of least resistance.

You're making sense. I'm glad I'm actually town this game, so we can work together rather than me having to try to be deceiving. Unless you're scum. That would suck.

My previous responses were a sort of prolonged RVS joke. In reality, I'm mildly in favor of the iguana's plan.

Also agree with you on the post above. Mass flavor claim is irresponsible. I would participate in #2 if we got a majority agreement.

[ashersky]

So far...

Pro #1: ?
Indifferent #1: Awaclus
Anti #1: SA, SS

Pro #2: SA, SS
Indifferent #2: ?
Anti #2: Awaclus

[Hydrad]

As for plans...

I will present two.  Pick one, or both, or none.

1) Mass flavorclaim.  Because of course.  But really, because flavor is clearly very important and it either super helps a lot of players at night or doesn’t.  And if it does, I posit it helps more town players than scum players so reward is greater than risk.

2) Everyone who knows the flavor posts a list of the major possible characters and likely alignments based on their knowledge of LL.  Bonus points: guess possible mafia roles.  This gives us fodder to discuss and opportunities for players to be scummy.

These aren’t plans to solve the game; these are to kickstart it and provide scumhunting clues.

I'd be fine with 1. But I don't think its a good idea. I just like mass claims.

for number 2. This one I don't really see how it can even help us. I guess there is the chance we might figure out mafia roles. But in general I feel like it will be either so inaccurate or even if its correct and we say like Fred (I have 0 flavor knowledge) is totally going to be a tracker. scum won't claim fred most likely, I bet they have safe claims? hmmmm but then I guess if their safeclaim is expected to have a power like charles should be a doctor and if scum claims charles and isn't a doctor or says they are but things don't line up I guess you could catch them.

Either way I guess its a small thing but it could help. But I can't help with that option since I have no flavor knowledge in it but once again I'm fine with it. claims are fun.

[SpaceAnemone]

Pro #2: SA, SS

After saying that plan#2 has more merit than plan#1, I did spend much of the rest of the post pointing out the potentially disastrous consequences of plan#2, so I would not characterise myself as pro exactly. More like I'd tolerate some implementations of it, but I'd definitely encourage town to think about the scum utility of anything they share, because I think scum utility risks being significantly higher than town utility if people over-share.

[gkrieg13]

Space seems townie this game.

[gkrieg13]

Anyway, my plan involves HYPO-CLAIMING and is based around a weird inference I made from my knowledge of the flavor.

Anyone interested?

I view this kind of plan as kind of scummy coming from Iguana.

[gkrieg13]

This is boring. Vote: LaLight for openly threatening a newbie. Super scummy.

This also seems like a townie silver.  Very laid back.

[EFHW]

I'm not in favor of either plan.

[gkrieg13]

Vote count 1.1

silverspawn (2): Awaclus, EFHW
ashersky (2): 2.71828....., Morgrim7
Morgrim7 (1): chairs
2.71828..... (1) silverspawn
Not voting (8): Galzria, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, DatSwan, iguanaiguana, Hydrad, WestCoastDidds, ashersky

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends, Tuesday, 18th of September, at 7am

Oh no, I think we accidentally lynched Not voting.

Slight scum on Awaclus for this post.

[Galzria]

I'm against Ashersky's Plan #1 - I've seen mass flavor claim help town one time, I've seen it hurt town far more. I've also seen it fought both for and against in the same game, with half the town in favor claiming, and half the town against refusing - and this has ended in disaster 100% of the time. It's the sort of thing that, if it's going to work and help, has to be completed willingly by all participants.

As for plan #2 - it has merits... but it's not really useful to anybody with no knowledge of the flavor. And more, it has the potential to end up causing a lengthy debate amongst the players that DO have flavor knowledge about what a better representation of a character would be - which could clutter up the thread endlessly. Just look at the speculation around Bart alone. In addition, it could clue scum in to which players have which characters, and what their powers might be, based solely on how those players react towards seeing their character name come up (or even in how they present their personal character to the thread as a whole).

So consider me a "nay" for both plans - which shouldn't surprise anyone, as I've rarely seen a plan I like. I DO generally like the attempts to think outside the box however to come up with plans - it isn't something I see scum do all that often, and while I fully expect Ashersky to come up with stuff as either alignment (he almost has to - it's so ingrained in his meta), I still think he's slightly, slightly leaning town-ish here.

[WestCoastDidds]

I watched the series recently and could generate a list of likely characters and alignments, if it’s useful (ala #2). I don’t have any sense of game roles, though, so someone else would have to add those in.

The quick summary is that on the show there are 3 good guys, 2 ambiguous guys, 2 innocents (one who is a dog sometimes), 3 baddies (one real bad, 2 helpers) and 3-4 rowdy folks who cause havoc but are basically good, and an inventor who made it all happen.

[gkrieg13]

If I were Bart the Serial Killer, I would lynch Iguana for SK hunting.

Also, where's Ashersky with a -real- D1 plan?

No idea why, but this catches me the wrong way.  Probably the also starting a sentence.

[Galzria]

(Aside: they are right about stalling being unnecessary; wrong about it being scummy.)

But how to you know that nobody who posted intent to wait for your plan wasn't scum taking advantage of the excuse to stall? I think most people would be marginally more likely to want to slow things down here as scum than as town. Yes, it's very marginal, but that's where the concept of scumpoints and townpoints comes in useful, even if you don't want to have to be a good Bayesian about these things.

Indeed. I would go a bit further and say that this is one of the better scum tells, at least speaking from personal experience, because it's a case where the towny thing takes more effort than not doing anything, and it usually it won't impact your reputation. So it's tempting to just go the path of least resistance.

You're making sense. I'm glad I'm actually town this game, so we can work together rather than me having to try to be deceiving. Unless you're scum. That would suck.

My previous responses were a sort of prolonged RVS joke. In reality, I'm mildly in favor of the iguana's plan.

Also agree with you on the post above. Mass flavor claim is irresponsible. I would participate in #2 if we got a majority agreement.

I don't like the way you're backing away here - but I do like that you tried something (Dayvig) in the hopes of illiciting responses. What I would be more interested in is what you took away from that whole series of interactions?

[gkrieg13]

Alignment changing is usually bastard. Lately we've played with it with warnings ahead of time. But there are no warnings of that sort in the OP. When I was a seriously nerfed serial killer in Modern Community, I pretended to be a psychiatrist hoping someone would counterclaim me and make me town. Found out later my claim should have been obviously false because changing alignment would be bastard. So my desperate hope for sanity was not to be.

I don't think alignment changing is bastard if you're the only person in your alignment and you're the one actively choosing to change your alignment.

Awaclus is correct. Everyone who tries to shoot down the plan is wrong.

This is the kind of plan where mini-claims lead to questions that lead to more claims by more people and next thing you know town has revealed too much. I've seen it happen more than once.

This looks like EFHW trying to sound townie without actually being townie.  vote: EFHW

[Galzria]

If I were Bart the Serial Killer, I would lynch Iguana for SK hunting.

Also, where's Ashersky with a -real- D1 plan?

No idea why, but this catches me the wrong way.  Probably the also starting a sentence.

I do that a lot, as I often type how I speak, and to me there is my first thought, "If I were Bart the Serial Killer, I would lynch Iguana for SK hunting.", and then -also- my second thought, "where's Ashersky with a -real- D1 plan?". The Also, in this case, is used in this way to indicate that the two thoughts are unrelated. I dunno - just feels natural to me.

[gkrieg13]

If I were Bart the Serial Killer, I would lynch Iguana for SK hunting.

Also, where's Ashersky with a -real- D1 plan?

No idea why, but this catches me the wrong way.  Probably the also starting a sentence.

It just reads scummy to me.  Like you are trying to state the first point and not have people find you scummy (not saying that it is) for it.  It just is a gut slightly scummy thing to me, but I'm not entirely sure why yet.

I do that a lot, as I often type how I speak, and to me there is my first thought, "If I were Bart the Serial Killer, I would lynch Iguana for SK hunting.", and then -also- my second thought, "where's Ashersky with a -real- D1 plan?". The Also, in this case, is used in this way to indicate that the two thoughts are unrelated. I dunno - just feels natural to me.

[Morgrim7]

I like Ashes's first plan! If everyone (or even most of us) go through with it, we will at the very least have some great info to work with. More than we have now. And data is good for the town, right? Even if it is chaotic data.

It would be nice to have something to "kickstart the game" (to quote ashes), instead of randomly pointing weak fingers based off stuff that is probably insignificant.

Whether or not mass flavor claims end up being beneficial to the town largely depends on the crowd and how willing everyone is to participate. The more willing participants, the more helpful it ends up being. Knowing f.ds, there is going to be a ridiculous amount of deliberation either way. I think it is appropriate for one of us to be the proverbial tenth man...

...and that person is me!

I am Detective Zimmerfield.

[iguanaiguana]

Lol

[Awaclus]

I'm Jeremiah Webb, Edgar Spring and Patrick Spring.

[Swowl]

Plan opinions:

Iguana's Plan - Unless I have missed something, I really don't see how hypo-claiming works for us. Or at least I guess I don't see how it would work for us unless Igu has knowledge of like an INSANELY huge upside. However, I guess I do not see a huge downside to it either. It seems just kind of pointless? Which is why I assume Igu knows something we don't... which could be either good or bad. So probably not on board with that.

Every game I have played on this site has, in the set up post, the phrase "Skum will be provided with fake claims". I do not see it in the set up post for this game. Does that mean they don't have them, or do we just not know?

Assuming Skum could have fake claims...

Ash #1 - Skum could use fake claims. Hurts today, but I guess we could map stuff out as we continue?

Ash #2 - The upside of the information this could generate is better than #1 imo. There is the downside of skum assumedly having more info then we do, so they could twist it up.

I would say if we do either of these it almost has to be done today. Not trying to rush it, just cuz if we wait through a night phase they will have a chance to coordinate.


I still think Igu is skumish for their idea. Mainly because of the null content it seems to provide (so I am assuming it is valuable to them).

Ash's plans seem to be more based on information generation. I don't know what that means. The only time I have played with Ash they pushed mass claim and ended up being Town.

If we have to pick one I like Ash#1 the best.