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Who deserves MVP?

Awaclus
- 2 (15.4%)
McMcsalot
- 5 (38.5%)
pingpongsam lol
- 6 (46.2%)

Total Members Voted: 13


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Author Topic: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Game Over, Town Wins!)  (Read 123228 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #525 on: August 29, 2018, 01:42:10 pm »

also I am surprised Robz, Joseph and gkrieg are in this game
So am I. I'm here, I've posted some reads.
And I think we should lynch VT for all the reasons mentioned before (that I don't feel the need to repeat).

But going back to D1, Robz pushed that quickhammer a lot. And has done nothing else this game. So, Vote: Robz
This is the first robz vote, not a bad vote. Robz did encourage the quicklynch unfortunately I think pps was scummy and town!robz wants to go through with that quicklynch just as much as scum!robz.

I agree a lot with Joseph here.

vote: Robz
Gkrieg sheeps joseph, I think this is a scummy vote. It’s opportunistic and Joseph’s point is weak.

Why is the vote opportunistic?  I know I'm town, I am guessing that e is town.  If Robz is town, then that means that he pushed for a quickhammer as town on town and then two town went and hammered PPS.  That seems unlikely to me.  You also say that Joseph's vote was good, but that his point was weak?  How does sheeping a good vote make me opportunistic, and why is Joseph's point weak?

I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
Hydrad votes robz says he won’t vote gkrieg which is strange. He’s towny in me, and then finishes with a vote robz. This is very strange as he was voting for galz, he doesn’t address galz at all and just moves over to robz saying he could totally do it...

Hydrads move puts robz at 3 votes and drops galz down to 2 votes.

vote: galzria
Gkrieg then jumps off of robz and on to galz making Robz’s wagon 2 and Galz wagon 3.


So if anything robz got some quick heat and gkrieg/hydrad flip flopped places but all the votes came around the same times and all the votes are bad.

I largely want to lynch gkrieg or hydrad.

What do you mean as all the votes are bad?  Galzria was coaching the traitor.  Robz pushed a bad (in hindsight) quickhammer, which is completely something scum!Robz would do (I agree that town!Robz would do it, but I think it is much less likely), and I think it is extremely unlikely that a town pushes a quickhammer on another town that 2 towns then execute.  Normally I would be putting the scumread on e, because I think it was a scummy hammer, but I think he had the towniest cop claim (with LaLight being an extremely close second).  You also literally say that Joseph's vote on Robz was not bad, then say that all the votes are bad.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #526 on: August 29, 2018, 01:43:44 pm »

I confess I'm only 85% sure I know the answer to this: if a Framer frames a townie, and the Insane Cop investigates this townie, does the Insane Cop get the result "town"?

Yes. The townie would show up as "scum" for investigations, and so the insane cop will show the opposite of that.

Correct. So since the plan worked so well, all three of the real cops do infact know their sanity for 100% and a “town” result for sane cops and “scum” result for insane cops can be trusted with almost certainty. The only exception is the traitor returns a “town” result until they are recruited.

Once the insane cop claims we can 100% trust their results. One of the three claimed sane cops is traitor/scum so we won’t know which ones to trust until we eventually flip some of them.

Why can we 100% trust the results of the insane cop?
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gkrieg13

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #527 on: August 29, 2018, 01:44:44 pm »

what is the point of doubleframing tho
There isn’t. The question is asking if they can frame two players at night or just one.

This took my like 3 readthroughs to parse.  I added punctuation in the quote.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #528 on: August 29, 2018, 01:45:55 pm »

I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?

Weren't you the one that said that we shouldn't ask the cops for their reads?
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #529 on: August 29, 2018, 01:49:57 pm »

Iguana can both of the mafia framers frame different player each night?
Also can a mafia framer frame someone and nightkill at the same time


I think the answer to both of these is yes but might as well double check.

Yes to both.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #530 on: August 29, 2018, 01:50:34 pm »

This all really makes sense. vote: Robz888. No, Vote: Dsell. No, vote: Robz888
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Galzria

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #531 on: August 29, 2018, 01:50:44 pm »

Day 1 final vote count
Lalight (COP)(1): Awaclus (VT)
gkrieg13 (VT)(1): Hydrad (VT)
pingpongsam (7): faust, McMcsalot (VT), Joseph2302 (VT), Robz888 (VT), Lalight (COP), gkrieg13 (VT), 2.71828... (COP)

not voting (4): Dsell (VT), DatSwan (COP), pingpongsam, Galzria (VT)

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Thread Locked!


Starting here. Will use this as reference as I go through with my rereads and lay out my thoughts today/tomorrow
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Dsell

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #532 on: August 29, 2018, 02:03:01 pm »

I don't think cops should coordinate today, just gives scum more information. Coordination was required to confirm sanities, but beyond that the less info we give scum the better.

Still like my hydrad vote

The last time you voted for him was 8 pages ago before all this shit went down. Do you have any new or updated reasoning? Or pretty much just the same reasons?

Weren't you the one that said that we shouldn't ask the cops for their reads?

I have definitely never said that.
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Robz888

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #533 on: August 29, 2018, 02:13:21 pm »

Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?
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Dsell

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #534 on: August 29, 2018, 02:17:16 pm »

Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?

wat
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Galzria

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #535 on: August 29, 2018, 02:18:13 pm »

Can framers frame the same person, thus double framing this person?

I would imagine not - framers don't flip alignment, they simply make the target a City (scum) for investigative purposes. They Miller the player in question.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Swowl

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #536 on: August 29, 2018, 03:22:26 pm »

DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasn’t claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we can’t trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there it’s a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what I’m doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.
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Swowl

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #537 on: August 29, 2018, 03:23:55 pm »

DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasn’t claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we can’t trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there it’s a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what I’m doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).

again, tomorrow is not today.
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Awaclus

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #538 on: August 29, 2018, 03:39:44 pm »

DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasn’t claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we can’t trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there it’s a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what I’m doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.

I don't think that's worth it.

Here's a question for everyone that I think we need to answer before we even attempt to come up with a plan: Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?
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LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #539 on: August 29, 2018, 03:40:05 pm »

DS is saying we should chose two cop targets T1 and T2 and then choose two of the claimed cops to investigate T1 and one of the claimed cops to investigate T2. He then goes on to say the insane cop who hasn’t claimed yet should investigate also investigate T1.

He claims this nullifies framing which makes no sense. Scum would just know the targets and could easily frame both. We would then get scum results which we can’t trust (because we could have caught scum or just framed townies). So yea right there it’s a terrible plan.

He then goes on to explain what this does to who scum should choose to kill which for the final time can we STOP DISCUSSING who we think scum should kill and what cops we trust. If I was scum I would have 100% made up my mind of what I’m doing tonight solely based off the discussion from the last couple days.

The plan as I already explained that actually makes sense if purely for all the cops to try and target as many different people as possible so that tomorrow we have lots of results to work with some of which we can trust and eventually trust 100% once we deal with the false cop issue (which we should not be dealing with today).


the nullification of framing was to say that the point is not to find skum in the search, but to find skum within the cops tomorrow. As the liar cannot actually search anyone, they will have to guess (hmm I guess unless their chosen Target is skum - i forgot they know who skum is). but whatever, my point was more to try and force another provable claim as opposed to just letting us all run wild and then the fake-cop has an easy out.

I don't think that's worth it.

Here's a question for everyone that I think we need to answer before we even attempt to come up with a plan: Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I do.
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Awaclus

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #540 on: August 29, 2018, 03:41:10 pm »

(i.e. the fake claiming cop isn't an insane town cop or main mafia member)
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #541 on: August 29, 2018, 03:43:50 pm »

(i.e. the fake claiming cop isn't an insane town cop or main mafia member)

I mean it's not 100%, but I am 90-93% sure
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gkrieg13

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #542 on: August 29, 2018, 04:03:48 pm »

Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.
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Hydrad

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #543 on: August 29, 2018, 04:11:27 pm »

I'm assuming the traitor is a cop.
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #544 on: August 29, 2018, 04:12:33 pm »

Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I'm still confused on why the traitor claimed and the other mafia can't the be one that claimed.

I think the biggest risk would be. everyone has said that the traitor should claim. if normal scum tried to claim, traitor wouldn't know that normal scum claimed and traitor might still claim and then we might end up with 5 cops. which I doubt scum would like.
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Robz888

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #545 on: August 29, 2018, 04:14:29 pm »

I don't think the Traitor is necessarily one of the cops, although there's a good chance of it. One reason being, this is a plan that two scum are more likely to have come up with than one scum on his own.
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #546 on: August 29, 2018, 04:23:36 pm »

I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.

so if skum has to choose to kill inside cops or outside cops they are left with:

Inside Cops: 2/3 dead cop, 1/3 find traitor. If they find traitor at this point, with 3 in the pool it would be excellent for them. Worst case scenario is they ... kill a cop?
Outside Cops: 4/5 VTs, 1/5 Insane cop. So 20% chance to find the other cop (that would obv be like their dream case scenario)... but outside of that all they do is remove a VT from play, making it worse for them the next day because they will now be 2/6 in the outside pool. At that point the Insane Cop could just like... claim. Now they are 2/5. Let alone insane has a result.


I just don't get why there have been people thinking killing outside the cop pool is something that is realistically going to happen I guess. I don't think it matters, it has just been bugging me.
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Hydrad

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #547 on: August 29, 2018, 04:25:31 pm »

I like gkrieg. Won't be voting there today.

Mcmc I'm also liking his last post so he's townies.

I could totally do a robz vote.

So Vote: robz

Even though we aren't lynching them today I think dat swan is like 10% scum lalight 40% and e 50%.

I think lalight is in a scummier position but his attitude is just feeling more like a town player I guess
I'd prefer if we didn't give scum info on who our towniest cops are. We want to limit their information

I guess. But honestly I'd be surprised if they even shoot a cop.

so if skum has to choose to kill inside cops or outside cops they are left with:

Inside Cops: 2/3 dead cop, 1/3 find traitor. If they find traitor at this point, with 3 in the pool it would be excellent for them. Worst case scenario is they ... kill a cop?
Outside Cops: 4/5 VTs, 1/5 Insane cop. So 20% chance to find the other cop (that would obv be like their dream case scenario)... but outside of that all they do is remove a VT from play, making it worse for them the next day because they will now be 2/6 in the outside pool. At that point the Insane Cop could just like... claim. Now they are 2/5. Let alone insane has a result.


I just don't get why there have been people thinking killing outside the cop pool is something that is realistically going to happen I guess. I don't think it matters, it has just been bugging me.

The biggest reason I think is that once scum starts killing off cops. they are also kinda killing off their partner. because once the town cops are gone we know which one the scum is. If you leave the cops alive it makes us potentially kill our own cops by guessing what one to lynch.

Theres pluses and minuses for both though.
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #548 on: August 29, 2018, 04:26:53 pm »

this is silliness. The traitor is def one of the cops.
Skum has no value in putting themselves in this situation.

The only inherent upside to doing it would be that because Traitor knows who the skum partners are, I guess it is like a way of teamwork? In the sense that when the lynch pool goes to cops they gain an extra team mate in trying to avoid getting lynched?

yeah no that is all nonsense - traitor is the fake claimer.
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day Two!)
« Reply #549 on: August 29, 2018, 04:27:28 pm »

Can we all agree that the traitor is one of the claimed cops beyond reasonable doubt?

I don't think we can take it that far. I also don't think it is that important except where cops may want to focus investigations. And I really don't want to focus on that today at all. So I don't actually really like the question at all
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.
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