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Who deserves MVP?

Awaclus
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McMcsalot
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pingpongsam lol
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Author Topic: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Game Over, Town Wins!)  (Read 14804 times)

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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #100 on: August 23, 2018, 02:44:22 am »

I'm not certain orchestrating a cop claim D2 is super useful - but I'll admit to having given it no real thought. It just feels wrong. Wasn't this setup run once before, where town did well based on good cop play? How was the setup handled in that game?
This setup wasn't run here, only a different one where I think there was some randomness involved in sanities.

Hum - I may have misread/misremembered a conversation about this then.
I have done some research on the forum's abysmal search function and it seems the only setups where Sanity came into play were RMM31 (closed setup) and M76 (semi-open & heavily randomized).

Ah, it was a comment from Silver in the thread about the creation of this game where he said he ran a setup based around sanity cops - but it wasn't this setup, and I'm not sure which game it actually was.
I think RMM31, but I don't think I played in it.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Galzria

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #101 on: August 23, 2018, 02:49:24 am »

I'll look over the setup more tonight/tomorrow and consider the idea. Also gives players with more setup experience (although you're pretty high up there on that list, faust) than I a chance to look it over.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.


Blitz:
TOWN Wins: ZM11, ZM13
TOWN Losses: ZM3, ZM5, ZM6, ZM8, ZM9, ZM10
SCUM Wins: ZM1
SCUM Losses: ZM4

Total Wins: 3
Total Losses: 7

Normal Games:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Traitor)

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 10

Other:
TOWN Wins: DM1, BM4, BM4, BM5, BM8, BM13, DoM1, OZ2, RM45
TOWN Losses: BM1, BM2, BM3, BM6, BM11, RM3, RM4
SCUM Wins: DM3, BM7, RM1, RM2
SCUM Losses: BM9, OZ1

Total Wins: 13
Total Losses: 9

LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #102 on: August 23, 2018, 04:19:29 am »

Hi everyone!

now that we are done with that, on to winning the game.  people who run probabilities: does a 10 VT vs 3 goons favor town or scum?  Because looking at the setup that is basically how I see it playing out.  I mean, MAYBE we can trust a cop result D3/D4, but even then scum may have framed the target.  I feel as if this is going to play out very much like a straight vanilla game
Following up on this. If we agree that Cops are pretty much useless even, we should absolutely push for a massclaim as that will inprove our lynch pool decisions.

But! I think there is a better way. And that is for all three Cops to investigate the same target N1. Then if they all would claim D2, every Cop knows their Sanity, so we basically have 3 full Cops starting D2. There is still Framing, but at least innocent results could be trusted.

This is an awesome plan.
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LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #103 on: August 23, 2018, 04:20:45 am »

I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

This is why I love faust. vote: Galzria
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LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2018, 04:23:30 am »

No, actually, vote: DatSwan. I am all for cop claims D2 targeting the same person N1.
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LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #105 on: August 23, 2018, 04:27:28 am »

Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #106 on: August 23, 2018, 04:32:14 am »

Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #107 on: August 23, 2018, 04:34:58 am »

Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
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LaLetís LaLynch LaLight.

Wins: 11, 7
Losses: 9, 5, 1
Draws: 1
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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #108 on: August 23, 2018, 04:37:36 am »

Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
It isn't if they at some point recruit the Traitor. But I guess the chances of that happening are not high enough to warrant us giving up a lynch.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

LaLight

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #109 on: August 23, 2018, 04:41:59 am »

Also no one else should claim cop/not cop, faust did, heís the target. Why would we choose another one?
Indeed. The whole plan gets significantly worse if a Cop dies before tomorrow.

I would even consider a no lynch today for that reason.

No. Itís still a free kill for scum.
It isn't if they at some point recruit the Traitor. But I guess the chances of that happening are not high enough to warrant us giving up a lynch.

Indeed. If they do, we'll give up then, on MyLo. So now we should do our best to catch scum D1. I propose DatSwan
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #110 on: August 23, 2018, 07:28:23 am »

I feel pressured to live up to the expectations...

Let's vote: Galzria for now.

Do you disagree with my assessment of LaLight?
I think he reads excited to be in a game. I don't think that is alignment-indicative. But I also think that people who already know he is town would be quick to take something like this as an alignment-tell, based on the thought that LaLight is obvious as town anyway and it would be better for them to be the first to townread him.

Lalight is town, and galz is towny not scummy for quickly coming to the argument that lalights excitement is towny. Also I disagree with Faust so heís town. Thatís a nice start
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Awaclus

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #111 on: August 23, 2018, 07:29:11 am »

I remember that term! Awaclus, what is your play typically like when you roll scum?

I bus pretty hard.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #112 on: August 23, 2018, 07:33:12 am »

I remember that term! Awaclus, what is your play typically like when you roll scum?

I bus pretty hard.

I think awaclus is the player with the most similar town and scum play. Also whenever Iím scum I find him about 3 times harder to mislynch than he should be.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #113 on: August 23, 2018, 07:34:36 am »

vote: hydrad

I just read the whole thread and then tried to remember who had and hadnít posted and hydrad came under he hadnít posted category despite posting a decent amount.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #114 on: August 23, 2018, 07:35:11 am »

No comment on the plan?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

mcmcsalot

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #115 on: August 23, 2018, 07:39:49 am »

No comment on the plan?

Havenít given it tons of thought but I actually think it sounds good. The paranoid part of me wants to suss out how itís beneficial for scum!you to do this but first take is that it doesnít and I think finding cops sanity is really beneficial if the plan in fact accomplished that.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
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Awaclus

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #116 on: August 23, 2018, 08:43:41 am »

We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
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Joseph2302

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #117 on: August 23, 2018, 09:03:40 am »

Hi all, I'm the SK
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #118 on: August 23, 2018, 09:08:00 am »

No, actually, vote: DatSwan. I am all for cop claims D2 targeting the same person N1.
Sounds like a sensible enough idea. It's the best (possibly only) decent info we can get this game
If we know the sanities it makes cops so much more useful for us
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #119 on: August 23, 2018, 09:08:35 am »

LaLight seems towny right now IMO
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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2018, 10:08:29 am »

We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Awaclus

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2018, 10:25:58 am »

We don't know if a cop can target himself (normally, I would assume no but the wording in the PM doesn't make it clear), so having one of the cops be the agreed upon target for investigation could ruin it, and having one of the insane cops killed would ruin it.
Yes, this is why I claimed not Cop. I will be the target. I also have a backup plan for the death of a Cop, but I don't think I want to talk about it today. Suffice to say I should still be checked if a Cop dies.

Oh, I see.

What if scum fakeclaims cop with the sane cop's result, wouldn't that also mess up the plan? We wouldn't know who is sane and who isn't, since there's an equal number of both results, and it is a very safe fakeclaim for scum.
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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2018, 10:31:54 am »

In my mind there are no cops. We essentially just have some goons to find and a bunch of town distractors are going to try to muck with that effort.

I am not a Cop
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faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2018, 10:35:59 am »

In my mind there are no cops. We essentially just have some goons to find and a bunch of town distractors are going to try to muck with that effort.

I am not a Cop
What on earth are you doing?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia (Day One!)
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2018, 10:36:19 am »

Vote: PPS
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.
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