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Author Topic: Most hated attacks?  (Read 8254 times)

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RTT

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Most hated attacks?
« on: August 17, 2018, 08:05:58 am »
+3

Hey everyone.

I´m trying to find out what the most hated attacks from the community are. Please Vote for yours in the following survey.

https://goo.gl/forms/DaPCZEQ1mDW3MG322

Thanks :)
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cascadestyler

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 08:22:00 am »
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It's a bit unclear whether this should be "which attack do I hate having played against me the most?" which is essentially just "which is the most powerful attack?" or "which attack do I hate seeing on a board?" The latter question is much more interesting, and I've answered it accordingly, but I have a feeling enough people will interpret it the first way that we'll just have a poll to find out that, hey man, Torturer and Mountebank are really really powerful, who knew?
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LaLight

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2018, 08:24:51 am »
0

Hey everyone.

I´m trying to find out what the most hated attacks from the community are. Please Vote for yours in the following survey.

https://goo.gl/forms/DaPCZEQ1mDW3MG322

Thanks :)

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ipofanes

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2018, 08:58:11 am »
+2

You mean the letters are out of order and it's really an "un-hated woods"?
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Awaclus

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2018, 09:01:01 am »
0

I voted for Mountebank and Cultist because I feel like those cards had the highest random chance of making it very easy for my opponent to win regardless of small differences in skill level (where small = no more than 7 levels) out of all Attacks, and that's why I like seeing them in a kingdom less than the others. I wouldn't say I hate them though, they're not Magic Lamp level bad.
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McGarnacle

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2018, 10:15:59 am »
0

I always disliked attacks that trashed your cards. If you are struggling to hit $5, the opponent gets a couple of Knights and trashes your first $5, your basically screwed.
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markusin

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2018, 10:41:34 am »
+2

Were we able to vote for more than one card?

I actually voted Ghost Ship. It just feels so unpleasant in the games where it's good and you expect to be hit by it every turn. Maybe Possession would have been a better choice.
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crj

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2018, 11:05:22 am »
+2

Oracle is my least favourite attack, but it's missing from your list.

(It's just so fiddly! You play it, players reveal cards, you make a choice, they make a choice. And then someone decides order matters, so it's you play it, player on your left reveals, you choose, they choose, next player reveals, you choose, they choose, and so on. Once you're finished, it was such a pissy little attack it wasn't worth all the bother.)
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Polk5440

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2018, 02:09:43 pm »
+2

Possession. Not an attack, I know. And yet....
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RTT

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 03:36:39 pm »
0

Oracle is my least favourite attack, but it's missing from your list.

(It's just so fiddly! You play it, players reveal cards, you make a choice, they make a choice. And then someone decides order matters, so it's you play it, player on your left reveals, you choose, they choose, next player reveals, you choose, they choose, and so on. Once you're finished, it was such a pissy little attack it wasn't worth all the bother.)

sorry mate i forgot oracle. i can fully understand hating the card.

Its added now if you still want to vote for it.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2018, 03:39:10 pm by RTT »
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RTT

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 03:37:03 pm »
+2

Possession. Not an attack, I know. And yet....

... its about to win
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2018, 03:40:11 pm »
+3

There are 4 attacks I've never found fun. Not sure how I would order them:

Militia: Having to see a good hand be destroyed is always irritating, but this card is also boring, so I've just never had fun with it. And having your first $5 hand taken away is beyond aggravating.

Urchin: Overpowered in a really boring way. Having to Discard down to 3 when your own hand has a Mercenary is super annoying. The luck factor is the cherry on top of the unfundae.

Familiar: It just isn't very interesting most of the time. You just make the game more frustrating for each other, and then it doesn't do anything when the Curses are gone. Also has an annoying luck factor.

Knights: Man, I could write a whole rant about the problems with these, but I'll try to be brief. Playing with trashing attacks feels like fighting the wind a lot of the time: You buy a card, it gets trashed, ad nauseam. The random bonuses only encourage people to buy all the Knights instead of just a few, even though they can't really be used as engine pieces due to the randomness. And then if you lose the split you're screwed. In the end, they all trash each other (assuming the split is even), thus making the whole thing seem like a pointless distraction.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 11:44:00 pm »
0

Since we could vote for more than one, I voted for Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Possession, IGG, Taxman, Followers, and Warrior. I voted for the ones I think just make the game less fun instead of more fun.

Ambassador is hard to play well (or maybe I'm just bad at it), and in multiplayer it can multiply estates until the pile is empty. (I play a lot of 3-player games at home.)

Ghost Ship just seems to hurt worse when you get hit by it than others.

Taxman seems really weak when you play it, but it hurts when it makes you discard silver (or gold).

Possession, IGG, Tournament, and Page are just among the cards I generally hate to play with. (Page would be the least hated of those, but I felt like voting warrior because it really should exclude travellers.)

brokoli

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2018, 06:41:33 am »
0

I voted for Goons, Bridge troll and Mountebank but after thinking about it, i should have voted for urchin as well. But it all depends on context. The least fun attack games are those where it's obvious that you have to rush on the attack first and just hope you'll be luckier than your opponent. This can apply to most of the attacks, but more often with the most powerful ones, such as mountebank, goons, witch, familiar, ambassador, and urchinary although the attack is not the most important part for that one.
My hate for bridge troll is less based on rational arguments : it's just that i hate to endure the cost increase thing. And Bridge, Highway and merchant guild already exists so i feel Bridge troll has no reasons to exist.

Latest sets have done a great job on attacks, they are more situationnal than before therefore more interesting. I'm thinking about Swamp Hag, Haunted woods, Enchantress, Werewolf…
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Watno

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2018, 07:06:29 am »
0

Anyone who doesn't pick Minion is wrong.
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Holunder9

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2018, 07:48:22 am »
+1

Cultist is the only Attack which I consider to be a bad card design because it is so overpowered. The idea of a terminal that can play further copies of itself is neat but it should never ever be on a junker.
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benedettosoxfan

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2018, 11:01:11 am »
0

My least favorite attack by a million miles is the knights pile. Aside from possession, it's the only pile I would ban. I don't have much of a problem with junkers or militia type attacks because they can usually balance each other out. Starting each turn with 3 cards is fine as long as I can do the same to my opponent, same with dealing out a curse. With knights, if you lose the split in certain situations, you eventually won't have any knights of your own to even the playing field. Of course, you might not have any relevant cards at all if you're on the wrong end of the "knightmare" as I've heard it called. Not only do you have no chance of winning, you can't even really do anything at all. You basically can't even play the game if you know everything between 3-6 is going to get trashed. For me personally the knightmare is the least fun thing in the entire game. In all other games, even if you're getting destroyed, you can still buy stuff and pull off the occasional good turn just for some personal satisfaction and sense of accomplishment.

The other thing about knights- some of them are just so much better than all the others the vast majority of the time. In boards without trashing, Dame Anna can easily decide the whole game. Same with Martin in games without plus buy. On the other hand, knights like Natalie or Vander can just end up futile as whatever you gain from them might get trashed anyway. Imagine if there was exactly one witch in the whole pile that made your opponent discard down to 3 or one random militia that would give you 2 actions. That's what knights feel like for me.

I also picked minion just because I suck with it, swindler for the possible early game deciding swinginess, and scrying pool because the turns take too darn long, but those are mostly just me being grumpy. I didn't pick any junkers or anything like that because, like I said, you should be able to construct your deck to the point where the punishment is roughly even. Maybe cultist is the exception, but I don't mind ruins nearly as much as curses. The fact that there's only one attack among the whole set of expansions that I would axe really speaks to the balance of the game though.

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2018, 11:14:42 am »
+1

My least favorite attack by a million miles is the knights pile. Aside from possession, it's the only pile I would ban. I don't have much of a problem with junkers or militia type attacks because they can usually balance each other out. Starting each turn with 3 cards is fine as long as I can do the same to my opponent, same with dealing out a curse. With knights, if you lose the split in certain situations, you eventually won't have any knights of your own to even the playing field. Of course, you might not have any relevant cards at all if you're on the wrong end of the "knightmare" as I've heard it called. Not only do you have no chance of winning, you can't even really do anything at all. You basically can't even play the game if you know everything between 3-6 is going to get trashed. For me personally the knightmare is the least fun thing in the entire game. In all other games, even if you're getting destroyed, you can still buy stuff and pull off the occasional good turn just for some personal satisfaction and sense of accomplishment.

The other thing about knights- some of them are just so much better than all the others the vast majority of the time. In boards without trashing, Dame Anna can easily decide the whole game. Same with Martin in games without plus buy. On the other hand, knights like Natalie or Vander can just end up futile as whatever you gain from them might get trashed anyway. Imagine if there was exactly one witch in the whole pile that made your opponent discard down to 3 or one random militia that would give you 2 actions. That's what knights feel like for me.

And this is the Knight rant I could have written. Well done.

I agree that Dame Anna is really swingy. Other potentially "important" ones like Molly and Martin get trashed pretty fast, so you can't get much benefit from them usually. However, the trashing you get from Anna immediately makes your deck better for the rest of the game. That's pretty game-deciding.

About Natalie, the whole reason she's good to get is that you can keep getting cheap cards to buffer your deck against the other Knights. Vander definitely feels sad when your Gold immediately gets hit, though.
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crj

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2018, 09:02:24 pm »
0

Question to the people who most hate the attacks which hurt the most: do you like attacks at all in Dominion? I know many people don't.

Personally, I don't mind a vicious slog once in a while, so I'm not going to vote for Ghost Ship or Goons just because it makes life so very difficult.
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Robz888

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2018, 09:25:25 pm »
+1

Urchin/Mercenary. It's just so dominating, and there's not a whole lot of strategy for doing it better than your opponent.
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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2018, 10:12:44 pm »
0

Knights are fine. I agree that Anna is dominant, and yes, occasionally Anna's on top and your opponent splits 5/2, but there are so many other situations like this in Dominion. In any other situation, when you buy a knight, ask yourself: is this worth the risk of uncovering Anna? If the answer is no, don't buy the knight.

Minion used to be super annoying on BSW (anyone remember that client?) when the only sets were base and a few cards from each of the others, because it was so dominant. Too many alternatives now.

My vote goes to Margrave. Both players have to get a million of them, and then it just slows the game to a crawl.
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samath

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2018, 11:24:02 pm »
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Disappointed that Hauted Castle didn't make the list in the "not really an attack" category.
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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2018, 11:37:47 pm »
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Disappointed that Hauted Castle didn't make the list in the "not really an attack" category.

Only happening once makes it pretty bearable.
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Asper

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2018, 03:40:57 am »
+1

Warrior for me. Like Knights, but trashing one with the other can be game-deciding. Bonus points for ruining 3 other cards, too.
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samath

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Re: Most hated attacks?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2018, 10:53:36 am »
0

Disappointed that Hauted Castle didn't make the list in the "not really an attack" category.

Only happening once makes it pretty bearable.
Bearable yes but it still functions like an attack. More disappointed from a completionist perspective than something I’d vote for.
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