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Author Topic: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Game Over! Town wins flawlessly)  (Read 70655 times)

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faust

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #325 on: August 21, 2018, 10:23:14 am »

objectively scummyness
I don't think I can take you seriously if you insist that there are objective scumtells on D1.

Your right, objective anti-town play, which ruling out a group of 3 players for what comes down to arbitrary reasons with flawed logic is. Objectively scummy it absolutely is not, I think it’s scummy
coming from silver especially since that group includes himself. But I am getting he sense others disagree.
Well I don't think that his argument was as obviously bad as you paint it to be, so even there using "objective" seems a bit much. Anyway I don't think that scum is particularly likely to propose to not lynch a group that includes themselves because the expected reaction is exactly yours, and there is not much to gain. It would be a different matter had silver already been under fire and actively trying to prevent his lynch, but that was not the situation.
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faust

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #326 on: August 21, 2018, 10:23:29 am »

Simon’s most recent post does nothing to make me feel townie toward him. He doesn’t defend himself at all saying the votes are bad though the case from Faust is somewhat old (I believe it had to do with an oportunistic vote on wcd). The ugh scummery everywhere does feels like frustrated scum.

Some agreement there.

I don't defend myself because I don't see much to defend against. Faust has a gutread seemingly coming from my use of the word fairly and that I encourage players in a newbie-game, yours I haven't seen or missed and WCD just jumped on going with the vets. It's nothing, it's bad and it's wrong.
So why are you town then?
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Simon Jester

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #327 on: August 21, 2018, 10:39:13 am »

Simon’s most recent post does nothing to make me feel townie toward him. He doesn’t defend himself at all saying the votes are bad though the case from Faust is somewhat old (I believe it had to do with an oportunistic vote on wcd). The ugh scummery everywhere does feels like frustrated scum.

Some agreement there.

I don't defend myself because I don't see much to defend against. Faust has a gutread seemingly coming from my use of the word fairly and that I encourage players in a newbie-game, yours I haven't seen or missed and WCD just jumped on going with the vets. It's nothing, it's bad and it's wrong.
So why are you town then?

Well, I know that activity not necessarily are alignement-indicative but given how I been trying to get this game going, being everywhere to try to stir up discussion I hope that still is a plus. My scum hunting is still primitive and maybe I'm too stuck in Lurkers are obv!scum but at least I have been trying to be pro-town. Now when the game is going I suddenly gets a wagon. Well, whelp, thanks for nothing then. Again, I'm not too worried, it'seems wrong, but I see the benefit in trying it out. Would be interested in hearing more from Silver here, as stated. He started it actually, without a reason from what I can see. Why didn't you make UoS "happen" rather than me?
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silverspawn

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #328 on: August 21, 2018, 11:05:04 am »

I am going to continue making scumreads based on how much energy people expend defending themselves vs. scumhunting. Since there are only two scum, self-preservation is significantly more important for scum than town at this point and we should exploit that difference.

I don't think that's a good standard. Generally, people defending themselves is a good thing. We shouldn't discourage that.

OK, I should clarify. Defending yourself by explaining your thoughts and actions is good, defending yourself by deflecting instead is bad, especially early in the Day when a lynch is unlikely anyways.

No disagreement here, although Simon is right that there isn't a clear case he can defend against.

mcmcsalot

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #329 on: August 21, 2018, 11:05:25 am »

unvote for consolidation purposes. Will move somewhere around lunch after I read phyphor.


What are the lynch pools looking like?

Remember that generally this is better for scum than town. Check votes yourself and make notes of what reads people have, giving direct I want to lynch this person or I don’t want to lynch this person for X reason is always better than just naming a pool that gives scum an idea of where they will get he most assistance when making a case.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #330 on: August 21, 2018, 11:31:19 am »

unvote for consolidation purposes. Will move somewhere around lunch after I read phyphor.


What are the lynch pools looking like?

Remember that generally this is better for scum than town. Check votes yourself and make notes of what reads people have, giving direct I want to lynch this person or I don’t want to lynch this person for X reason is always better than just naming a pool that gives scum an idea of where they will get he most assistance when making a case.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the assist! The day will end at 4 am my time (I will almost certainly be sleeping) so I’m trying to get up to speed sooner rather than later.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #331 on: August 21, 2018, 11:37:58 am »

I do think we want to lynch by tonight. I will not be around by deadline after I go to sleep.

I know faust has the ability to be around but I’m not sure how many other people we have that do.

So unless people can be around it in the hours before deadline I suggest we set a soft deadline of 10:00 pm forum time (which is eastern standard time).
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phyphor

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #332 on: August 21, 2018, 12:29:11 pm »

(Pronoun issue: I think I'm going with a general they/them for almost everyone unless the player is well known by me since before. Hope that is ok with everyone.)

Epicene "they" is a catch-all pronoun and, whilst some suggest that refusing to use the correct pronoun and instead always using 'they' is bad I am not one of them.

Phy seems aggressive and not helpful.

I appreciate I appear unhelpful - but there's very little help I can provide as I am (a) new to this forum's way of playing and (b) entering the game party-way through a day and having to battle against that. I am happy to accept that not only am I appearing to be unhelpful I am not actively helping because there's very little I can actively do right now.

With regards the aggression, I appreciate and acknowledge your impression of me. I didn't believe I was being aggressive but I will endeavour (should I survive, which is currently looking likely) to moderate my tone better.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #333 on: August 21, 2018, 12:31:10 pm »

I can do 10:00 game time
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hypercube

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #334 on: August 21, 2018, 12:31:29 pm »

I can be around for the deadline but agree that we should lynch tonight.

Now that I understand phyphor's first post correctly it is less scummy, but it hasn't really contributed much other than correcting people (which is fair) and theory discussion. I'll go ahead and borrow faust's question.

phyphor: why are you town?

PPE 2
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #335 on: August 21, 2018, 12:32:52 pm »

(Pronoun issue: I think I'm going with a general they/them for almost everyone unless the player is well known by me since before. Hope that is ok with everyone.)

Epicene "they" is a catch-all pronoun and, whilst some suggest that refusing to use the correct pronoun and instead always using 'they' is bad I am not one of them.

Phy seems aggressive and not helpful.

I appreciate I appear unhelpful - but there's very little help I can provide as I am (a) new to this forum's way of playing and (b) entering the game party-way through a day and having to battle against that. I am happy to accept that not only am I appearing to be unhelpful I am not actively helping because there's very little I can actively do right now.

With regards the aggression, I appreciate and acknowledge your impression of me. I didn't believe I was being aggressive but I will endeavour (should I survive, which is currently looking likely) to moderate my tone better.

It would be interesting and helpful, I think, if you coul read our game from the start and give us your impressions. Fresh eyes can help see new things.
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phyphor

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #336 on: August 21, 2018, 12:38:01 pm »

So I think uncleeurope’s misread of phyphor post it stupid but 100% believable.

Fair

As others have chimed in to say that my original post wasn't clear I'm more than happy to accept that the mis-read was a fail on all of our part, and I'm happy to accept that shifting votes constantly isn't necessarily a bad sign.

I'm willing to switch my vote - but I genuinely don't have a good scum read and unvoting immediately after a call for an early lynching would only make me look bad.

phyphor: why are you town?

Because that's what I was assigned to be.

It would be interesting and helpful, I think, if you coul read our game from the start and give us your impressions. Fresh eyes can help see new things.

Give me an hour or so to consider everything that's been said, and by whom.
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silverspawn

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #337 on: August 21, 2018, 12:40:51 pm »

Because that's what I was assigned to be.

This is an Awaclus answer. If people ask "why are you town" what they mean is "please give me reasons to believe you should be town".  I would think that everyone already knows this, but I well just pointed it out anyway.

silverspawn

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #338 on: August 21, 2018, 12:42:14 pm »

I do think we want to lynch by tonight. I will not be around by deadline after I go to sleep.

I know faust has the ability to be around but I’m not sure how many other people we have that do.

So unless people can be around it in the hours before deadline I suggest we set a soft deadline of 10:00 pm forum time (which is eastern standard time).

No chance for me. I'm up for merely 5 more hours (and 20 minutes)

mcmcsalot

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #339 on: August 21, 2018, 01:03:24 pm »

Okay phyphor/Muenster reread.

phyphor comes in with a case on europe. This has been talked about quite a bit, and has been explained to be due to europe evening up the wagons which could in turn make it more difficult to lynch and no lynch is bad. Its a correct theory that I believe was being applied at an unnecessary time. In fact looking at the votes it is literally a move that placed faust at 2 votes alongside europe at two votes. This is barely a wagon and overall really has no impact on a lynch.

The question becomes is it scum!phyphor coming up with any reason to vote europe which does then put europe at L-2 and makes him the leading wagon, or is the just poor town play. I would say because in the same post phyphor mentions that the vote is out of self preservation (when phyphor was only at one vote) it leans scummy. Scum overblows the amount of pressure they are under more often then town.

Phyphor goes on to explain to the people who thought phyphor was in favor of no lynching which is reasonable but is perturbed by the fact that some people are deliberately mis-stating phyphors reasons. Basically all of phyphor's posts have been in relation to their own post and how others viewed it. Very little actual content.

Looking at muenster cheese literally one post???? It seems like all the votes for muenster were pressure votes to get them to contribute and so when phyphor replaced all the votes went away.

It is interesting that phyphor seems to have felt some of the pressure that muenster was under even though it was all gone by the time phyphor posted and that phyphor enters with a vote on europe the person that muenster's one post was jokingly voting for.

Phyphor's recent post have actually made me quite happy with a vote: phyphor

The fact that they are now going to take some time (we are running out) and consider what everyone has said makes me think it will be more responding to current posts and not actual reads or a case. Pending more information I am happy with this vote.
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Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

faust

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #340 on: August 21, 2018, 01:21:11 pm »

I disagree with everything that mcmc is saying. Which from past experience probably means he is town.

I think all of the points you make above are easily explained by being used to a different meta.
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phyphor

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #341 on: August 21, 2018, 01:31:47 pm »

The fact that they are now going to take some time (we are running out) and consider what everyone has said makes me think it will be more responding to current posts and not actual reads or a case. Pending more information I am happy with this vote.

We have more than half a day. Even if a player is real-world going to sleep so they wake up just as the in-game day is over we still have 5 hours (e.g. silver).

Pressuring me into acting fast is scummy, especially when one person asks me to:
 
read our game from the start and give us your impressions.

is at best impolite and, at worst, throwing me to the wolves.

I'm not going to simply turn round and vote for you for that, or because you've voted for me, I'm going to stick to what I said I'd do.

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phyphor

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #342 on: August 21, 2018, 01:32:50 pm »

Oh, and add on the fact that you want me to provide:

actual content.

But not spend any time on it? Yeah, like I say, it's at best impolite.
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silverspawn

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #343 on: August 21, 2018, 01:45:56 pm »

I also disagree with everything mcmc is saying. phyphor is the player that I want to lynch the least second to myself

faust

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #344 on: August 21, 2018, 01:47:00 pm »

I also disagree with everything mcmc is saying. phyphor is the player that I want to lynch the least second to myself
Well I wouldn't go that far.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #345 on: August 21, 2018, 02:14:46 pm »

I'm going to be in and out for a lot of the day, but the specific 10 PM forum time soft deadline wouldn't work for me, I won't be around from about 6 PM to 10 PM probably, can be around for a few hours after that but I will be asleep at the actual deadline.
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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #346 on: August 21, 2018, 02:15:13 pm »

I also disagree with everything mcmc is saying. phyphor is the player that I want to lynch the least second to myself

Where did that strong a read come from?
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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #347 on: August 21, 2018, 02:20:40 pm »

I agree that this:
The fact that they are now going to take some time (we are running out) and consider what everyone has said makes me think it will be more responding to current posts and not actual reads or a case. Pending more information I am happy with this vote.
is unfair, but
@faust
@Silverspawn
Do you guys disagree with this?
Scum overblows the amount of pressure they are under more often then town.
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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #348 on: August 21, 2018, 02:24:54 pm »

I also disagree with everything mcmc is saying. phyphor is the player that I want to lynch the least second to myself

vote: phyphor
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Re: Newbie Mafia 12: Your Favorite Animal Mafia (Day 1!)
« Reply #349 on: August 21, 2018, 02:27:57 pm »

I also disagree with everything mcmc is saying. phyphor is the player that I want to lynch the least second to myself

vote: phyphor
Think that's L-1
Vote Count 1.UoS

phyphor (4): Uncleeurope, WCD, mcmcsalot, hypercube
Simon Jester (2): silverspawn, faust
Uncleeurope (2):, UmbrageOfSnow, phyphor
hypercube (1): Simon Jester
Not Voting (0): 
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
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