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[Simon Jester]

Just checking in to say I'm going to be a bit busy today and tomorrow and won't be able to post much.

Welcome mcmc! I posted some questions to Alina later back, would be happy if you could answer them as relevant as you can, knowing the fact that you, eh, aren't her..

[faust]

I’m completely caught up and was following along as the posts came so I haven’t re-read the beginning pages yet. Faust what was your umbrage case I can’t remember it at all and was really surprised when I hit a vote count with your vote on him.

UoS is scummy? Why?

I don't like the way he jumped on the WCD wagon,, did not seem genuine. Also we have seen a lot of posts and none of them made me feel any particular town vibe. A lot of them were very explainy, and it's certainly also good for town to do that, but I would expect town to also do other things that are notable and move the game and UoS has been a bit too distant from the game for my taste.

[mcmcsalot]

I’ll reread umbrage and see if I get that I actually have a case on someone else ready to go for similar reasons. I’ll post after my reread on unbradge.

[mcmcsalot]

Woah yea umbrage has said absolutely nothing non newb aid related. I agree his vote on wcd was terrible she be town.

From following along my biggest scum read has been silverspawn. His contribution has been limited to his “let’s get everyone to vote” post which he claimed was to incite drama (here’s your drama). I think it was not helpful, forcing people to get reads out is best done by directly asking question and Faust does well getting everyone’s general vote/read out benefits scum because they can see where the lynch of least resistance is.

Silver also made what I think is the scummiest post of the whole game:

As it looks right now we're headed towards lynching someone with fairly little information. I think it can't be a vet. There are only three. If we lynch one and one dies in the night there's only one. If that one is scum, that's super bad news.

This is now the second time silver is inciting the idea that we need to be more directed in our reads and votes. This post comes on the 18th which is 3 days after start and 4 days before deadline way too early to be concerned about this I think. He then goes on to give a clear direction that we shouldn’t be lynching a vet. This is absolutely crazy and wrong. Vets partake in newbie games to help out through tough day ones and provide tips about game theory/wording. They absolutely are no there to help lead the charge in finding scum nor should they be held to any safer standard than newbies.

With that vote: silverspawn

[mcmcsalot]

Just checking in to say I'm going to be a bit busy today and tomorrow and won't be able to post much.

Welcome mcmc! I posted some questions to Alina later back, would be happy if you could answer them as relevant as you can, knowing the fact that you, eh, aren't her..

This is all I could find:

alina and Europe voting for faust without a stated reason is somewhat suspicious to me, explanation please?

I believe Europe is voting faust for his nitpicky attitude, mainly showing against me above. I think this is wrong, it's a bit annoying but probably a good scumhunt- method which I assume is what is going on. 

I agree though that alinas vote is a bit out of place. What more than the "probability argument" is there for the vote, alinas? Do you have any further scumreads?

And unfortunately other than her favorite animal I was left no notes as to her reads so I do not know why she was voting for Faust or what the probability argument is.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Uncleeurope

Partially to save my own back, but also because setting up three of us to share the votes (by switching to Faust) means we are unlikely to lynch on Day 1.

In general we want to lynch every day, but whilst Day 1 is a day with little information which makes it hard to do a good lynching if we don't lynch anyone we run the risk of having the Mafia take out the good townies (be it because they're good at Mafia or have had to role-claim to save their skin).

This is a terrible vote. Phyphor tell me why you think uncleeurooe is scummy.

[faust]

From following along my biggest scum read has been silverspawn. His contribution has been limited to his “let’s get everyone to vote” post which he claimed was to incite drama (here’s your drama). I think it was not helpful, forcing people to get reads out is best done by directly asking question and Faust does well getting everyone’s general vote/read out benefits scum because they can see where the lynch of least resistance is.

Agreed that his way of trying to get people to vote was not particularly well thought out. I don't see why this speaks to silver's alignment.

Silver also made what I think is the scummiest post of the whole game:

As it looks right now we're headed towards lynching someone with fairly little information. I think it can't be a vet. There are only three. If we lynch one and one dies in the night there's only one. If that one is scum, that's super bad news.

This is now the second time silver is inciting the idea that we need to be more directed in our reads and votes. This post comes on the 18th which is 3 days after start and 4 days before deadline way too early to be concerned about this I think. He then goes on to give a clear direction that we shouldn’t be lynching a vet. This is absolutely crazy and wrong. Vets partake in newbie games to help out through tough day ones and provide tips about game theory/wording. They absolutely are no there to help lead the charge in finding scum nor should they be held to any safer standard than newbies.

With that vote: silverspawn

I can see a point here in silver's argument. Newbies definitely can often use help scumhunting and it is bad news if vets die early. But of course the flip side is that vets are also expectedly better scums. But anyway this is a theory disagreement and again I fail to see why it would imply that silver is scum.

[mcmcsalot]

The reason those things imply scum is town!silver is aware of the better way of generating reads from people and has not done that at all. Scum!silver is aware that getting quick votes down from everyone helps him find easy lynch targets. Town!silver is aware ruling people out for poor reasons is bad and scum!silver is aware putting fear into newbies for vets dying directly protects himself. We have had many “newbies” over the years that did not need any help from vets and I think pushing that idea only limits individual though and hurts town.

[mcmcsalot]

I could say the same to you faust about your (weaker in my opinion) umbrage case. Umbrage has almost solely given help to the newbies, which while it isn’t high quality content it is actually helpful vs silverspawns unhelpful posts.

[faust]

I would have something to say to this, but I would prefer to see silver address this himself.

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: Simon

Faust, Why Simon over UoS?

Thanks, MC for the fresh commentary. It’s helping me think through things from a new perspective. I can see why having everyone talking is better than having five people talking...

I’m also compelled by Faust’s reading and Hypercube’s explanation that is his one line responses aren’t necessarily suspicious, just not particularly helpful but not for lack of trying. And he correctly notes that none of the newbs (me, Eddie, Hyper, simon(?)) are really doing much to move the game, largely, I’d guess, because we don’t quite know how.

MC says silver could be doing better at generating game play....this is why vet’s are helpful! I wouldn’t have known that. I’ll be interested in what he has to say to that remark. Same with UoS, who was super helpful in explaining the game to me but maybe that was all.

Anyway, unvote: Hyper because I think the newbs may just be taking turns whacking each other around, and I’m not ready to commit elsewhere until I see how the silver and UoS discussion goes. And Phy....what’s up Phy? Ugh.

[faust]

vote: Simon

Faust, Why Simon over UoS?

Well noone else seemed interested in voting for UoS. We are entering a phase in the game where it is good to not have votes spread out all over the place, but consolidate on a couple of wagons. Which isn't to say that you should only vote for people who already have votes necessarily, but I have tried the UoS wagon and there is no movement there and I have nothing new to add to that case because UoS has not been posting.

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: Simon

Faust, Why Simon over UoS?

Well noone else seemed interested in voting for UoS. We are entering a phase in the game where it is good to not have votes spread out all over the place, but consolidate on a couple of wagons. Which isn't to say that you should only vote for people who already have votes necessarily, but I have tried the UoS wagon and there is no movement there and I have nothing new to add to that case because UoS has not been posting.

And Simon is scummy why?

[hypercube]

Another point against silver is his interactions with phyphor/muenstercheese, who I think we all agree have only been scummy in their brief time here.

Cheese follows silver in voting in a convoluted manner:

vote: poorly written Harry Potter Villain

vote: father-brother-continent

He then votes for cheese in this much-scrutinized post:

Very slow start here. How about this: everyone vote for someone in their next post

vote: muenstercheese

And then, after switching onto WCD, moves onto Eddie instead of actually going back to cheese.

For the record, my vote was entirely for pressure. Now is the first time that I think I have some kind of read, and it's a town read on WCD. Don't particularly want to explain why.

back to vote: uncle

At this point phyphor shows up, follows silver in voting for Eddie, and makes a very scummy post. Being concerned with self-preservation first and foremost is a pretty big red flag.

Partially to save my own back, but also because setting up three of us to share the votes (by switching to Faust) means we are unlikely to lynch on Day 1.

In general we want to lynch every day, but whilst Day 1 is a day with little information which makes it hard to do a good lynching if we don't lynch anyone we run the risk of having the Mafia take out the good townies (be it because they're good at Mafia or have had to role-claim to save their skin).

silver doesn't comment on the above other than to note that phyphor's choice of pronouns is unusual.

I think we should lynch one of these two and then strongly suspect the other if the first flips scum.

PPE 3

[faust]

I don't think that repeating a joke is the gold standard for partner tells.

[faust]

vote: Simon

Faust, Why Simon over UoS?

Well noone else seemed interested in voting for UoS. We are entering a phase in the game where it is good to not have votes spread out all over the place, but consolidate on a couple of wagons. Which isn't to say that you should only vote for people who already have votes necessarily, but I have tried the UoS wagon and there is no movement there and I have nothing new to add to that case because UoS has not been posting.

And Simon is scummy why?

This is mostly a gut read for me. I don't like the wagons he has been pushing, and I don't like how he has been pushing them. I didn't like the "I have no scumreads but WCD" from a bit earlier, it is usually harder for scum to procure scumreads than it is for town, and then he pushed for a specific group of two less active players with no reason as to why he chose those two specifically.

[mcmcsalot]

I don't think that repeating a joke is the gold standard for partner tells.

Oh faust, you and your only addressing a part of the post you find a flaw with is so you...anyway I think that point is weak but the rest of the post is strong.

I hadn’t even realized his “back to uncle” was infact not backed up by him voting for uncleeurope. He votes cheese for lurking, pressures cheese again with his vote call post, wcd and Simon both join in voting cheese to which he immediately swaps off to wcd for a “pressure vote” and then as shown goes “back to uncle”. 

[silverspawn]

Woah yea umbrage has said absolutely nothing non newb aid related. I agree his vote on wcd was terrible she be town.

From following along my biggest scum read has been silverspawn. His contribution has been limited to his “let’s get everyone to vote” post which he claimed was to incite drama (here’s your drama). I think it was not helpful, forcing people to get reads out is best done by directly asking question and Faust does well getting everyone’s general vote/read out benefits scum because they can see where the lynch of least resistance is.

I disagree. I think it was helpful. Posting begets posting. The worst thing that can happen is that no-one cares and no-one has anything to say. And that kind of thing does happen, I've seen it happen before. And it's not good for town. On the other hand, I don't recall any game where there was a minimum quantity of discussion, but it was all so devoid of content that I didn't find any alignment indicative stuff in it. If there is a concerning lack of activity, which there was, then more stuff is a very safe bet for a good thing. And people did start to post a bit immediately afterwards, so it might have even worked.

Silver also made what I think is the scummiest post of the whole game:

This is now the second time silver is inciting the idea that we need to be more directed in our reads and votes. This post comes on the 18th which is 3 days after start and 4 days before deadline way too early to be concerned about this I think. He then goes on to give a clear direction that we shouldn’t be lynching a vet. This is absolutely crazy and wrong. Vets partake in newbie games to help out through tough day ones and provide tips about game theory/wording. They absolutely are no there to help lead the charge in finding scum nor should they be held to any safer standard than newbies. [/quote]
I think it wasn't wrong at the time. If you have a game with three vets and one+ of them is scum, then if you lynch a vet day 1, what will happen is that a second vet dies n1 which leaves a bunch of people who're playing for the first time and one vet who is scum. That is really bad.

And you don't have any argument why it's not bad, you're just making the policy/moral case. It's always bad to answer a factual argument with a moral argument.

And you also conveniently left out this post:

Now that mcmc is here, the vet thing becomes less relevant.

I took the vet thing back as soon as you were here, because with 4 the same argument no longer applies. Where is the scum motivation for that?

[silverspawn]

The reason those things imply scum is town!silver is aware of the better way of generating reads from people and has not done that at all.

The whole problem I was trying to solve was that there was no material to work with.

[Uncleeurope]

Well, I am not opposed to jumping off the cube wagon either, and as previously stated, my runner-up was to Vote: Phyphor

I will just let that rest there while I reread Silver/Simon/Snow

[silverspawn]

s/s/s for short

[Uncleeurope]

The reason those things imply scum is town!silver is aware of the better way of generating reads from people and has not done that at all.

The whole problem I was trying to solve was that there was no material to work with.

Well, there is more info now, do you have more reads?

[mcmcsalot]

The reason those things imply scum is town!silver is aware of the better way of generating reads from people and has not done that at all.

The whole problem I was trying to solve was that there was no material to work with.

I totally understood that. But the way to went generating more material was done in a scummy way. You got people to make quick general votes which benefits scum to see where they can get a lynch instead of making specific singular interactions that let town figure out individual alignments.

[silverspawn]

Some, all mostly feeling based.

Town on WCD, weak town on faust. Scum somewhat on you just because if I read any of the other new players I get this urge to believe they're town and I don't get that from you.

That's all, sorry. I don't share the scumread on UoS and while mcmc has said some stuff, I can easily see that coming from either alignment.

[silverspawn]

The reason those things imply scum is town!silver is aware of the better way of generating reads from people and has not done that at all.

The whole problem I was trying to solve was that there was no material to work with.

I totally understood that. But the way to went generating more material was done in a scummy way. You got people to make quick general votes which benefits scum to see where they can get a lynch instead of making specific singular interactions that let town figure out individual alignments.

I didn't think particularly far, it was the only thing I could come up with, and I reasoned that it was better done than not done.

I don't agree that quick general votes early benefits scum in any way.