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### AuthorTopic: Interesting Card Design Challenges  (Read 4249 times)

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#### kru5h

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #75 on: August 24, 2018, 09:25:31 pm »
0

Here's a challenge that I think is interesting: Design a card that costs \$3, that gives +2 Actions and +1 Card, that isn't strictly better or strictly worse than Village

So, I had a similar challenge for myself when I came up with Bells. The idea was a Village for \$3 (Not necessarily +1 Card, +2 Actions.)

If you want to literally include "+1 Card, +2 Actions", then it would have to be something like, "When you gain this, each player may gain a card costing up to \$4."

Or, maybe

Alt-Village, Action, \$3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Gain a Copper.
You may trash a Copper from your hand.

Both of those are quite boring, though. So if somebody can do better, be my guest.

#### NoMoreFun

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #76 on: August 24, 2018, 09:38:50 pm »
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Here's a challenge I had a go at tackling: make a two-sided portrait card.

So thoughts are:
A card with competing "while this is in play" effects.
A card that does interesting things when it's on top of your deck.
A card with 2 different duration effects, but you have to decide which one you're using when you play the card.

All of them would need the Stash Wording to establish that it is in fact ok to decide were they go in your shuffle.

So a simple one:

FRONT

Craftsman
Action - \$4
Gain a card costing up to \$4
---
When shuffling this, you may look through your remaining deck, and may put this anywhere in the shuffled cards.

REAR

Retiree
Action/Duration - \$4
For the rest of the game, +1 Action at the start of each of your turns (This remains in play)
---
When shuffling this, you may look through your remaining deck, and may put this anywhere in the shuffled cards.
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#### NoMoreFun

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #77 on: August 24, 2018, 09:44:52 pm »
0

Here's a challenge that I think is interesting: Design a card that costs \$3, that gives +2 Actions and +1 Card, that isn't strictly better or strictly worse than Village

So, I had a similar challenge for myself when I came up with Bells. The idea was a Village for \$3 (Not necessarily +1 Card, +2 Actions.)

If you want to literally include "+1 Card, +2 Actions", then it would have to be something like, "When you gain this, each player may gain a card costing up to \$4."

Or, maybe

Alt-Village, Action, \$3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Gain a Copper.
You may trash a Copper from your hand.

Both of those are quite boring, though. So if somebody can do better, be my guest.

I like Bells

My idea was:

Rival Towns
Action/Reaction - \$3
+2 Actions
+1 Card
---
When another player plays a Rival Towns, you may reveal this for +1 Card, then put this onto your deck.

It has more features than Village, but in games with both this card and Village, you may want to buy villages to avoid triggering your opponents Rival Towns. Again kind of boring, but it has non attack interactivity.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 09:45:56 pm by NoMoreFun »
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#### NoMoreFun

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #78 on: August 24, 2018, 09:55:47 pm »
+1

A more nuanced challenge for you:
Make a card (shaped thing) that is better than an existing Kingdom card, but the existing card is strategically relevant in kingdoms with both it and the existing card. You are not allowed to refer to the existing Kingdom card in the text of your designed card.

An example (but not a great one):

Package
Event - \$5
Gain a card costing up to \$6 and 2 coppers.

Now this is better than Cache in most circumstances, because you can gain a Gold and 2 Coppers with this as well as many other possibilities. However in games with Cache, you can gain Cache with Package, which opens up the possibility of "Gain a Gold and 4 coppers" (if that's what you're after).
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#### kru5h

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #79 on: August 24, 2018, 10:13:10 pm »
+2

A more nuanced challenge for you:
Make a card (shaped thing) that is better than an existing Kingdom card, but the existing card is strategically relevant in kingdoms with both it and the existing card. You are not allowed to refer to the existing Kingdom card in the text of your designed card.

An example (but not a great one):

Package
Event - \$5
Gain a card costing up to \$6 and 2 coppers.

Now this is better than Cache in most circumstances, because you can gain a Gold and 2 Coppers with this as well as many other possibilities. However in games with Cache, you can gain Cache with Package, which opens up the possibility of "Gain a Gold and 4 coppers" (if that's what you're after).

Well, the easy way out would be to make a Victory card, since you always need more of those. (For example, Duchy, but with +2 Cards for the same cost. You still want Duchies when these run out.)

Instead of that, I'm going to do the harder version:

Quote
Mice Action, \$4
+1 Card
+1 Action

Gain a Mice. Trash a card from your hand other than a Mice (or reveal a hand of all Mice.)
-
When you trash this, +2 Cards.

Strictly better than Rats, but you still want Rats because Mice can trash Rats and Rats can trash Mice.

#### Asper

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #80 on: August 25, 2018, 08:27:10 am »
0

Grillage, Action, 3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Gain a Copper to your hand.

Meerkat, Action, 5\$
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
Cards other than Meerkats cost 1\$ less this turn, but not less than 0\$.

#### markusin

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #81 on: August 25, 2018, 09:15:39 am »
+2

Here's a challenge that I think is interesting: Design a card that costs \$3, that gives +2 Actions and +1 Card, that isn't strictly better or strictly worse than Village

So, I had a similar challenge for myself when I came up with Bells. The idea was a Village for \$3 (Not necessarily +1 Card, +2 Actions.)

This card is very similar to the Herald in the Dominion outtakes, particular the one in the Guilds outtakes. I suspect it's actually much stronger than it looks bases on the stories Donald X. talks about.
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#### ThetaSigma12

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #82 on: August 25, 2018, 09:38:56 am »
+1

This card is very similar to the Herald in the Dominion outtakes, particular the one in the Guilds outtakes. I suspect it's actually much stronger than it looks bases on the stories Donald X. talks about.

I've played a couple games with Bells, and I remember nerfing it heavily each successive game. I think I got to a version that revealed the top 2, plays an action and put the other back. It was a little weak for , but it was manageable.
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#### kru5h

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #83 on: August 25, 2018, 07:27:37 pm »
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Wow. Looks like I need a new village for my set! Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Edit:

Quote
Alt-Village Action,
+2 Actions
While this is in play, play with the top card of your deck revealed and you may swap a card from your hand for the revealed card at any time.

Slightly worse than +1 card, but the swap ability lets you set up your next turn or topdeck extra treasure. Not sure about this one.

Edit 2:
Actually, the above is weak. It's fine for the first Alt-Village you play, but subsequent ones are just Necropolis. I should make it cost 2.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:50:45 pm by kru5h »
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#### ipofanes

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2018, 10:53:11 am »
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Here's a challenge that I think is interesting: Design a card that costs \$3, that gives +2 Actions and +1 Card, that isn't strictly better or strictly worse than Village

So, I had a similar challenge for myself when I came up with Bells. The idea was a Village for \$3 (Not necessarily +1 Card, +2 Actions.)

This card is very similar to the Herald in the Dominion outtakes, particular the one in the Guilds outtakes. I suspect it's actually much stronger than it looks bases on the stories Donald X. talks about.

Other than Herald, you get one less card but have a much higher chance for hitting, and you can choose not to play the card.

I rather thought about Sage. It is worse than Sage if none of the next 3 cards is an Action and as long as Victory cards that Sage finds are not in the Kingdom. Other than that, it is a lot better than Sage (choice between up to three cards, play it without eating an Action).
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#### Holunder9

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2018, 02:07:54 pm »
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Alt-Village, Action, \$3
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
Gain a Copper.
You may trash a Copper from your hand.

Both of those are quite boring, though. So if somebody can do better, be my guest.
You could argue that if you use this village to consistently trash Coppers this boils down to being an anti-Lab, i.e. the card is in practice just a Necropolis.
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#### NoMoreFun

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2018, 08:33:41 am »
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Challenge: Infinite Play
Create a balanced card costing up to \$6 with either "Do this any number of times" or "You may play this again" in this card text.
Hard Mode - You can not assign a condition to the text allowing you to play the card infinitely many times (no "if" or "to" statements in front of "you may play this again".)
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#### Asper

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #87 on: September 16, 2018, 06:17:38 am »
+1

Challenge: Infinite Play
Create a balanced card costing up to \$6 with either "Do this any number of times" or "You may play this again" in this card text.
Hard Mode - You can not assign a condition to the text allowing you to play the card infinitely many times (no "if" or "to" statements in front of "you may play this again".)

Basilika, 3\$, Action
Do this any number of times:
Discard a card for +1\$ or trash a card from your hand.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 06:18:45 am by Asper »
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#### NoMoreFun

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2018, 12:34:03 pm »
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Challenge: Infinite Play
Create a balanced card costing up to \$6 with either "Do this any number of times" or "You may play this again" in this card text.
Hard Mode - You can not assign a condition to the text allowing you to play the card infinitely many times (no "if" or "to" statements in front of "you may play this again".)

Basilika, 3\$, Action
Do this any number of times:
Discard a card for +1\$ or trash a card from your hand.

I guess the challenge isn't as interesting as I thought.

You'd could trash the same Fortress over and over again to get infinite points with Tomb, but broken 3 card combos aren't anything new.
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#### Commodore Chuckles

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2018, 01:38:46 pm »
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You'd could trash the same Fortress over and over again to get infinite points with Tomb, but broken 3 card combos aren't anything new.

This would be much worse than the Goons-Forum thing though. Goons-Forum is a 4-card combo, and then it takes a while to set up. With this, the loop can begin as soon as you have Fortress and Basilica in the same hand.

The card itself looks kind of need but defs OP.
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#### Asper

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #90 on: September 17, 2018, 03:36:10 am »
+1

I was just too lazy to copy over Secret Chamber's reaction text, because I originally intended to post its top. Apparently trying to invent something was a mistake. So:

Chamber of Secrets, 2\$, Action - Reaction
Do this any number of times: Discard a card for +1\$.
---
When another player plays an Attack, you may first reveal this from your hand for +2 Cards, then put 2 cards from your hand onto your deck.

#### Asper

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #91 on: September 19, 2018, 04:04:28 am »
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Thinking about it, every Reaction card that is just revealed can be worded as an "any number of times" - including Secret Chamber.

If Basilica was a real card, I'd of course make it "Trash any number of cards from your hand. Discard any number of cards for +1\$ each." instead of the loop.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 04:05:41 am by Asper »
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#### msw188

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2018, 10:26:09 pm »
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For the infinite loop challenge:
King of the Dead
Gain a curse and a copper
Gain a curse from the trash
You may play any action card from your hand twice
You may play this again

Could this cost 6, or even 5?  Maybe too bonkers with strong trashing, too self-damaging with no trashing?  Would be nice if Bridge didn't get doubled.
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#### Aquila

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #93 on: September 22, 2018, 08:16:55 am »
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For the infinite loop challenge:
King of the Dead
Gain a curse and a copper
Gain a curse from the trash
You may play any action card from your hand twice
You may play this again

Could this cost 6, or even 5?  Maybe too bonkers with strong trashing, too self-damaging with no trashing?  Would be nice if Bridge didn't get doubled.
Throning every Action in hand by itself might be a nice effect to do on a hard-to-get card. Since it would be so expensive it might even make a nice pure debt card, to go with another challenge posted here.
But this setback I would say is very harsh. Not only that, but you can also empty the whole Curse and Copper piles at once, meaning you can get an unassailable lead if some cards are in the game like Gardens or Fountain (deny opponents their 10 Coppers), or empty 2 of 3 piles and win that way.
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#### msw188

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #94 on: September 22, 2018, 03:07:17 pm »
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Oh right, I didn't think about Gardens.  Hm...
What about the copper only comes from the trash?  So this only really hurts in cases where there were methods to thin down... in which case there should be a way to mitigate the damage (hopefully on the same turn).  And if there weren't any thinners, did you really want a throne room anyways?

King of the Dead
Gain a curse
Gain a curse and a copper from the trash
You may play any action card from your hand twice
You may play this again

I tend to prefer cards that are not strong enough to cost more than 5 or 6.  Cards that stand to get some use throughout the game, rather than cards you need to build towards acquiring.  Not a hard and fast rule by any means (I still love Inheritance!), but I still think it would be cool to arrange this card to be available early (and without large debt - although I also like that mechanic).  Adds to the challenge of the design in any case!
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#### mameluke

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #95 on: September 23, 2018, 05:09:56 am »
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How about something that is difficult to buy, like it costs 2 Buys to buy one copy? It would have to come with an Heirloom like Pouch to make it viable, or I suppose you could gain it in other ways on boards without +Buy.
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#### Holunder9

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2018, 07:20:23 am »
+1

The purpose of Debt is to make this ungainable via Remodelers.
Another idea to guarantee that there is an extra Buy in the Kingdom besides simply including Pouch as Heirloom would be a split pile with some cheap card that provides extra Buy on top, some Market Square variant or whatever.
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#### Gubump

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2018, 12:59:08 pm »
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Split pile:
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#### Holunder9

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2018, 01:09:53 pm »
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Overall a cool variation on Mountebank.

I don't like the Coin-Debt thingy on Bribe though as it only matters if you don't use the extra Buy.
So either this is +2 Coins +1 Buy or it is a Capital variant: +3 Coins | When you discard this from play, take 1 Debt, and then you may pay off Debt.
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#### Fly-Eagles-Fly

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##### Re: Interesting Card Design Challenges
« Reply #99 on: October 12, 2018, 06:04:28 pm »
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Overall a cool variation on Mountebank.

I don't like the Coin-Debt thingy on Bribe though as it only matters if you don't use the extra Buy.
So either this is +2 Coins +1 Buy or it is a Capital variant: +3 Coins | When you discard this from play, take 1 Debt, and then you may pay off Debt.
It could be: Cards (everywhere) cost \$1 less this turn. At the end of this turn, take 1 debt per card you bought, then you may pay off debt.
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