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### AuthorTopic: A better Golden Deck  (Read 5416 times)

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#### Davio

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2012, 03:11:57 am »
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Surprised no one mentioned the easiest Easy Mode solution. Sure, it only gets 9VP, but it's soooo straightforward:
KCx2, Monumentx3 - KC->KC, play each Monument 3 times. Continue ad infinitum (not limited on piles!).

The real trick is getting your deck down to that point since you don't have a Bishop to help. You can use your opponent's Bishop or perhaps Islands to get you there.
I'll raise you.

You need 4 KC's, 3 Schemes and 7 Monuments.
With KC-KC-KC-KC-Scheme, you can draw the other Schemes and with those KC'd Schemes, you'll draw all the Monuments.
You can KC 4 Monuments for 12 VP and play the other 3 for 3 extra VP.
This gives 15 VP per turn ad infinitum.

You can use the same Island or Bishop trick.
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#### O

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2012, 03:28:02 am »
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Surprised no one mentioned the easiest Easy Mode solution. Sure, it only gets 9VP, but it's soooo straightforward:
KCx2, Monumentx3 - KC->KC, play each Monument 3 times. Continue ad infinitum (not limited on piles!).

The real trick is getting your deck down to that point since you don't have a Bishop to help. You can use your opponent's Bishop or perhaps Islands to get you there.
I'll raise you.

You need 4 KC's, 3 Schemes and 7 Monuments.
With KC-KC-KC-KC-Scheme, you can draw the other Schemes and with those KC'd Schemes, you'll draw all the Monuments.
You can KC 4 Monuments for 12 VP and play the other 3 for 3 extra VP.
This gives 15 VP per turn ad infinitum.

You can use the same Island or Bishop trick.

Scrying Pool -> Draw 10X KC 10X Goons 9X Monument 1 Scheme 9 Bishops 1 Watchtower..whatever card gainers you want, etc, too lazy to calculate it out. Buy coin, trash with watchtower, return scrying pool to top of deck.

Orrrr we can assume that this puzzle is without scheme and generally implies a 5 card deck, or a bigger deck still forcibly caused

In which case Tactician, KCX3, MonumentX5, Curse, Tactician is forcing 15 VP turn. Probably can beat that with bishop.

... But I'm pretty sure we want a 5 card starting deck.
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#### bozzball

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 05:14:58 am »
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I think the first one gets 21 VP tokens per turn.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but here is a new easy mode solution for 12 VP tokens per turn:

Hand is KC, KC, Jack-of-all-Trades, Mine, Bishop.
KC-KC, then Jack. Don't trash anything with Jack. This results in 3x Silver, Mine, Bishop in hand.
Now Mine to convert all the Silvers to Golds. Then trash them all with Bishop for 12 VP tokens.

Another one that only gets 10 VP tokens per turn in easy mode but can maybe be tweaked to do better:

Hand is KC, KC, Trusty Steed, Bishop, Bishop.

KC-KC, then Trusty Steed for: +\$2, gain 4 Silvers; +2 cards, +\$2; +2 cards, +\$2. Now you have \$6 and your hand contains two Bishops and four Silvers. KC one Bishop, trashing 3 Silvers for 6 VP tokens. KC the other Bishop, trashing one Silver and two of nothing for 4 VP tokens. In total, 10 VP tokens.

Would be nice if something could be done with the \$12 you have to spend after doing this.

Another one for 12 VP tokens per turn in easy mode:

Hand is KC, KC, Bag of Gold, Smithy, Bishop.
KC-KC, then Bag of Gold, then Smithy to draw the 3x Golds, then Bishop to trash them.

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#### bozzball

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 05:16:09 am »
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Disregard.

I think the first one gets 21 VP tokens per turn.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but here is a new easy mode solution for 12 VP tokens per turn:

Hand is KC, KC, Jack-of-all-Trades, Mine, Bishop.
KC-KC, then Jack. Don't trash anything with Jack. This results in 3x Silver, Mine, Bishop in hand.
Now Mine to convert all the Silvers to Golds. Then trash them all with Bishop for 12 VP tokens.

Another one that only gets 10 VP tokens per turn in easy mode but can maybe be tweaked to do better:

Hand is KC, KC, Trusty Steed, Bishop, Bishop.

KC-KC, then Trusty Steed for: +\$2, gain 4 Silvers; +2 cards, +\$2; +2 cards, +\$2. Now you have \$6 and your hand contains two Bishops and four Silvers. KC one Bishop, trashing 3 Silvers for 6 VP tokens. KC the other Bishop, trashing one Silver and two of nothing for 4 VP tokens. In total, 10 VP tokens.

Would be nice if something could be done with the \$12 you have to spend after doing this.

Another one for 12 VP tokens per turn in easy mode:

Hand is KC, KC, Bag of Gold, Smithy, Bishop.
KC-KC, then Bag of Gold, then Smithy to draw the 3x Golds, then Bishop to trash them.

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#### jomini

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 06:04:46 pm »
+1

This may stretch the definition of "5 card deck" a bit, but I think it works for easy mode (15 VP chips/turn):

Hand: KC/KC/Mint/Bishop/haven

Turn begins KC-> Haven (from last turn) returns 3 plats to hand

Play hand as follows: KC -> KC -> Mint (gain 3 plats to discard) -> bishop (trash 3 plats in hand for 15 points) -> haven (set aside 3 plats from discard)

Clean up - KC/Haven goes into the discard (regenerating the starting deck); KC/Haven/3 Plats are on the mat for next turn

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#### blueblimp

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 06:18:21 pm »
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This may stretch the definition of "5 card deck" a bit, but I think it works for easy mode (15 VP chips/turn):

Hand: KC/KC/Mint/Bishop/haven

Turn begins KC-> Haven (from last turn) returns 3 plats to hand

Play hand as follows: KC -> KC -> Mint (gain 3 plats to discard) -> bishop (trash 3 plats in hand for 15 points) -> haven (set aside 3 plats from discard)

Clean up - KC/Haven goes into the discard (regenerating the starting deck); KC/Haven/3 Plats are on the mat for next turn

Seems legit to me since it's not vulnerable to deck attacks like Swindler, Saboteur, etc.
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#### ycz6

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 07:11:22 pm »
+1

Surprised no one mentioned the easiest Easy Mode solution. Sure, it only gets 9VP, but it's soooo straightforward:
KCx2, Monumentx3 - KC->KC, play each Monument 3 times. Continue ad infinitum (not limited on piles!).

The real trick is getting your deck down to that point since you don't have a Bishop to help. You can use your opponent's Bishop or perhaps Islands to get you there.
You can replace the third Monument with a Bishop for the same number of points.
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#### blueblimp

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2012, 07:38:45 pm »
+2

Anybody who considers jomini's latest solution borderline is definitely not going to like this one. It scores 76 guaranteed tokens each go and has an empty draw deck & discard during your opponent's turn (so it's a little more legitimate than KC-Scheme, in my opinion).

The cards you possess: 5 King's Courts, 4 Goons, 3 Havens, 2 Wharfs, an Outpost, and a Watchtower. In total, 16 cards.

Before your normal turn begins, you have KC, KC, Outpost, Wharf, Wharf in hand. 2 King's Courts, all Goons, and the Watchtower are returned to your hand by Havens; that's 7 cards, which was accomplished by the King's Court and 3 Havens that are in play.

So, your hand is 4 KC, Outpost, 2 Wharf, 4 Goons, Watchtower for this turn. KC-KC-KC-KC, which allows you to apply KC to 7 cards: everything except the Watchtower. From the KC'd Goons and Wharves, you have 19 buys, so buy copper (trashing with Watchtower) to score 76 points.

At the end of your normal turn, everything gets cleaned up except one KC, the Outpost, and both Wharves, which all stay out.

In your Outpost turn, the KC'd Wharves kick in and draw 12 cards in addition to the 3 you drew at the end of your normal turn's clean-up phase. Actually, you only end up with 12 cards in hand (because that's all you have). Play KC-KC-Haven-Haven-Haven to set aside 2 KC, all Goons, and the Watchtower (so your hand is now empty).

At the end of your Outpost turn's clean-up phase, one KC and 3 Havens remain in play, and you draw KC, KC, Outpost, Wharf, Wharf.
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#### Boldot

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2012, 07:55:06 pm »
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Haha, oh wow that's glorious, abusing haven.  I wonder if it's possible to take it any further than that, or have we reached the theoretical maximum ridiculousness with haven?
The biggest thing is having your deck be 0 cards at the end of your turn every turn in order for it to count.

Makes me wonder if there's a way to abuse Native village and Outpost similar to how you're working haven.

As an aside, what's the best you can do to make a card that's completely immune to all attacks as well?  I suppose you could just include moat or lighthouse, probably lighthouse, but what if those aren't available?

Time to put my own thinkin cap on.
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#### blueblimp

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2012, 08:53:29 pm »
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Haha, oh wow that's glorious, abusing haven.  I wonder if it's possible to take it any further than that, or have we reached the theoretical maximum ridiculousness with haven?

As far as my post goes, there's definitely extra that can be squeezed out. For example, there's room to throw in an extra King's Court and Goons without needing to change anything else. That would increase the point count to 110.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:49:40 pm by blueblimp »
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#### jomini

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##### Re: A better Golden Deck
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2012, 12:51:48 pm »
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In order to have a 5 card deck, native village is mostly a no go for insane level abuse. Sans outpost, you cannot play the cards on the mat. You might be able to come up with some sort of pull cards off, generate new copies, trash the originals, and put the new copies back on the mat, but the 5 card deck cap is a bit harsh.

Sans outpost, this means you need a NV at the beginning of the turn, and a NV at the end of the turn. That leaves 3 cards to trash and regenerate multiple cards - not so easy to do.

Using outpost/nv is cute, but still has practical problems. This means that outpost takes up one of your slots (leaving you with 4 slots). Unlike haven, KC/NV takes up two more slots. This means that during your outpost turn (having played your payout cards during the first turn), you have only 4 cards you can play. KC/KC/NV/NV means that at most you could have six cards that are actually played on the mat.

I think we can modify BB's solution into something like the following nightmare for hard mode (I don't have time to work through this for optimal setup/play at the moment):

Starting hand:KC/goons/watchtower/outpost/scyring pool
On the mat: KC/KC/KC/KC -> 9 havens -> holding the following 27 cards: 5 KC, 9 goons, 9 throne rooms, scheme, and 4 markets?

So my playable hand begins with playing out the 9 TR in an efficient tree. Off of that I will play a KC tree. At the end of the KC tree I will play a whatever combination lets me get down all 10 goons with as many buys as possible with the following two caveats:
1. I have to have an unplayed watchtower to trash my buys of mass copper.
2. I have to have a spare action to play scheme -> scrying pool at turn end (these can be played off KC or TR branches if needed).

I then buy to trash how ever many dozen coppers I'm allowed and play the outpost. I place Scrying pool on deck top and draw it to start the outpost turn.

My outpost turn consists of playing the pool to draw everything -> KCx4 -> haven to regenerate the deck and then KC/goons for 4 more points with watchtower trashing.

I'm not sure if it is optimal to use all the TR's, but at least a few should be good to KC more buys, so the optimal mix of cards may have more markets and fewer TR. Likewise, the optimal mix of KC and TR used during the normal turn vs used to bulk up card storage (and hence buys)I leave as an exercise for the reader.

I haven't calced it, but I believe this should break 150 VP chips/turn without too much trouble.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 12:53:54 pm by jomini »
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