Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All

Author Topic: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?  (Read 15428 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3233
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« on: August 10, 2018, 03:13:17 am »

This is a question I have been asking myself. Over the years I have played here, I have seen drops and spikes in activity. I know I haven't even been around for the most active times, very early on. But we'd usually have multiple games running and every now and again some new members joining.

Now, we stabilized around one game at a time, usually filled with the same group of players. It has been quite a while since someone genuinely new has joined our group - some long-term mafia players have made reappearances, but newbies? But people still leave. So it would seem that the mafia population of this forum is dwindling.

I always liked it here, clearly, otherwise I probably wouldn't have stuck around this long. I think the main part of the problem is the decline of f.ds as a whole, as other things like Discord and reddit take over. There are not many new members of f.ds, and thus not many candidates for joining the mafia ranks.

The people who still are playing also don't have as much time at their hand. Which is natural I suppose. In the old times, people here were at college or going to school even. Now most are working. But it does take an impact on the quality of the games played here, and I find myself enjoying them less.

So what do you think? Is there hope for a rebirth, or should we just enjoy it while it lasts? Can something be done, like moving to some other place?
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 03:29:12 am »

Funny, I just had a conversation with a friend about coming on here and playing in the next normal game to start with me. Was hoping to get him into this.

Mafiascum seems like the other site with slower deadlines but it seems like their forums are also full of people lamenting how the site is dying. (For that matter it's a common topic in plenty of IRC channels about other things, etc.)
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2641
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 03:29:44 am »

These are good questions. It does feel like we've settled into somewhat of a routine where we have one game at a time, and the game usually involves some combination of me, Galz, faust, gkrieg, LL, Space, mcmc, DS, maybe iguana, maybe EFHW, maybe a slightly less regular player.  (And some others I am sure I am forgetting, sorry!) And I love all these players to death, but it does get a bit repetitive, not having enough new blood.

Part of me thinks perhaps we should be more outlandish with setups? I mean, another part of me, the part that likes incredibly balanced, rigorous games, says no way jose. But when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?), Modern Comm (Mafia, uh, 30 something maybe? somewhere in there), the first PYP slots game run by faust (40, I think?), and each of those were semi nuts, while still being not totally crazy.

I'm not totally thrilled about the prospect of moving, although I think it's a totally legit point to raise. Just seems like we might lose sort of the only thing we have going for us, this sense that this is our home and we have a history here. I think even just looking at a different, like, posting layout, may wreck the experience for me a bit, kill off that nostalgia factor. I don't know. And I wonder if other places are as friendly as we are.

It's a bummer the Forums don't see as much traffic, because that is, obviously, the main issue. I wonder if we could somehow advertise our little mafia sub forum, maybe on other gaming sites? I mean, I don't know, I could put out a call for people to join, like I could tweet or FB it. (I have a not-trivial 21K followers on Twitter.) Probably we would not get cream of the crop. Maybe on gaming boards, though. IMO the key is to bring people to us, not to go somewhere else. I could be wrong though!

I'd love to talk more about this though. It was my 30th birthday two days ago, and naturally it made me think back. I'm quite happy, I gave a good life, and f.ds, and mafia in particular, has been a part of that happiness for the last, what was it, six years? I've met people all over the country, sometimes in person, even from Europe--hi, Eevee!--because of this great group. It's facilitated me staying more in touch with my brother--hi, mcmc! It's more than just a distraction from work, it's really been a great, positive influence on me, and I value you all for being part of it.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Skumpy

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 126
  • Shuffle iT Username: skumpy
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:09:46 am »

Not the most regular in mafia, and still a relative newbie to the forums as a whole, but I'll chime in:

I think the main part of the problem is the decline of f.ds as a whole, as other things like Discord and reddit take over. There are not many new members of f.ds, and thus not many candidates for joining the mafia ranks.

Exactly this, is my take. Over the last year, I'd say the amount of Dominion discussion on the Discord has gone from something like 50% to 95%. The only things at this point outside of mafia that really generate traffic and postings are new expansion announcements (see: 'Renaissance') and fan cards. Even Dominion League is something that's becoming increasingly reallocated away from the forum. And even more than that: I'm not sure there's a lot of people out there who would enjoy Dominion who haven't already discovered the game, a decade after its creation, and so don't discover sites to discuss it, let alone f.ds mafia (though I could be wrong on that).



The only solution I can think of if you want to attract new members, and not have to resort to friends and followers, is to make the Forum Games public to non-users. This very thread is in a place that's not visible to them. At the time of this post, I am reading on the front page '148 Members, 6 Users'.  There are many, many lurkers on these forums who will read anything and everything posted since the dawn of f.ds without ever registering; I should know, I was one for over a year. I would be shocked if not at least a few would be intrigued by mafia.
 
I don't know why the Forum Games are private in the first place, though I trust theory had good reasons for it. If that's something he wants to change, I think that would alleviate some of the issue, at least for a little while.
Logged
He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 04:31:56 am »

Well, this is the problem. I tried to play Mafia on other forums and it never has been a pleasant experience. People are toxic and rud and I can't see the fun in this. That's why if fds mafia ends some day, I don't think I'll be playing Mafia anywhere else.

Crazy setups are a thing. Br Bad, Firefly, Buffy/Angel, Kubo, all these precious RMMs were the best in my experience. They take time and real motivation to create, but I loved them. Of course, fds overall is dying, this much is true, but I definitely agree we should open the forum games for guests' reading and try to advertise it somewhere. I am really sure there are gaming communtites who don't even know you can play Mafia in plain text. When I tell this to people they are always very surprised.
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1477
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 09:19:17 am »

I seldom play Mafia, and have never played it on f.ds . But I chanced to see this subject line go by, and felt I might be a useful data point.

Classic Werewolf/Mafia suffers from two key problems. The first is player elimination; the second is a lack of information. Almost all the time, you're *only* relying on psychological tells, with little opportunity to apply logic. These problems have been fixed by newer games such as Resistance, Secret Hitler, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Secrets, Mafia de Cuba, Mascarade, Don't Mess With Cthulhu, Triple Agent, Infected, Dracula's Feast, ...

It may be that interest in classic Mafia has waned as a result.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3233
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 10:00:07 am »

I seldom play Mafia, and have never played it on f.ds . But I chanced to see this subject line go by, and felt I might be a useful data point.

Classic Werewolf/Mafia suffers from two key problems. The first is player elimination; the second is a lack of information. Almost all the time, you're *only* relying on psychological tells, with little opportunity to apply logic. These problems have been fixed by newer games such as Resistance, Secret Hitler, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Secrets, Mafia de Cuba, Mascarade, Don't Mess With Cthulhu, Triple Agent, Infected, Dracula's Feast, ...

It may be that interest in classic Mafia has waned as a result.
The input is appreciated, but I don't really think that's the issue. The "key problems" you point towards are only really problems IRL. Player elimination sucks when you have to sit around for 2 hours watching your friends play. It's fine when you can just sign up for the next game while the one you died in is still ongoing. Lack of information is less of a problem too, because everthing anyone ever said is recorded. Especially on later days, you can usually piece together who scum is pretty well.

So long story short, you should try it some time ;)
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3233
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 10:02:04 am »

Also we have had runs of both Secret Hitler and Resistance on this forum, and neither has gained much traction.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

hypercube

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Shuffle iT Username: xyrix
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 10:58:55 am »

I've been meaning to join in (just missed signups for M117), so that's one newbie.
Logged
I have sigs off.

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 11:38:31 am »

I possibly do have a newbie, who wants to play, but she'd want to play Newbie Mafia as she is not really acquainted with text mafia at all
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 11:40:06 am »

so nothing is lost! :) Let's try to open NM (I can do that) and try to invite as much new players as possible?
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 11:44:26 am »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3233
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2018, 12:47:59 pm »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
If this is our consensus, I will contact theory about it. But I'll give some more time for others to voice their opinion.

EDIT: There is a poll now.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:55:31 pm by faust »
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

LaLight

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 771
  • Shuffle iT Username: LaLight
  • Because I'm a potato
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 12:56:00 pm »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
If this is our consensus, I will contact theory about it. But I'll give some more time for others to voice their opinion.

EDIT: There is a poll now.

Sure thing. I voted
Logged
Wins: 15, 10
Losses: 11, 5, 1
Draws: 1
MVPs: 4
Mod/Co-mod: 18

I always have a limited access to forum on weekends.

pingpongsam

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1760
  • Shuffle iT Username: pingpongsam
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 02:21:43 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.
Logged
You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

gkrieg13

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Shuffle iT Username: gkrieg
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 02:25:55 pm »

I can definitely run a newbie game.  I was wanting to run a game seeing as cryptography mafia doesn't seem like it is going to fill (maybe I should just move that to a RMM game and give it a little more spice?)

I think I'm just too busy lately to really get into mafia games, which obviously takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me.  I agree that getting new blood in here could really help.
Logged

Robz888

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2641
  • Shuffle iT Username: Robz888
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 02:29:28 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.
Logged
I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

gkrieg13

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Shuffle iT Username: gkrieg
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 02:32:44 pm »

The other thing is that we could just start experimenting with stuff.  It seems like we have just grown stale with our setups, deadlines, and just general meta.
Logged

UmbrageOfSnow

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • Shuffle iT Username: Umbrageofsnow
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 02:45:41 pm »

I know given my record my vote shouldn't count for much here, but I love long Day 1s, you jerks  :P

Anyway, there are so many options for weirder but still pretty "normal" setups. I've been overflowing with setup ideas for years, although balance needs to be worried about, and then I get depressed, flake on something and spend 2 years feeling angsty and guilty, so I never build up enough consistent time on site that I feel like I should really mod anything because I don't want to do that to you guys (or myself, given the self-hatred spiral that follows me flaking on anything.)
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 890
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2018, 03:58:42 pm »

from what i understand the big appeal of someone interested in mafia for a small site like fds is the specific people that are playing here. for example i played here a lot bc even though i don't really mesh with the style here, i know everybody already and have a basis for reading/acting, etc. some people want to play a bunch of different places to like explore different metas, i know for example that jan and fontisian visited here and have been trekking all over the forum mafiaverse

it's tough to get people that are really interested in general forum mafia to play here i think because for most purposes, places like MS and MU are going to be better since there's always going to be games ready and a more diverse set of games/people there as well.

i think if a few people coordinated a big event and talked about it somewhere or got some big names on the MU discord (does anyone know amrock? lmao) to talk about it then people would join and maybe check out the site and accrue name recognition, etc.

things like:
  • no maximum / large maximum player count
  • short deadlines
  • ITAs (in thread attacks, ability for anybody to shoot someone in the thread during the day with like 15% chance to kill)
  • other incidental gameplay events (e.g. sub-games that a subset of players can opt to play)
  • role madness or generally fun/neat roles
routinely get huge playerlists very quickly on MU and have been mediumly popular on MS. people will wanna post a lot though

also, like, if somebody else wants to make pilgrimages to MS and MU and like ToS forum and MTG salvation and some other big forums and be like "if you liked playing with me you can visit fds which is the meta i come from." i think mtg salvation in particular is this forum's speed.

lastly, it's not like a problem if it's just you guys playing with each other. i don't really think there is a decline in forum use happening that's worth worrying about. i think there will continue to be a medium trickle of newbies for like a while, idk
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 890
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 04:00:39 pm »

a committed subforum for hidden threads (i.e., certain people get access to a thread instead of using QT) is common/expected most places. idk if this forum has that functionality, thinking out loud
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'

pingpongsam

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1760
  • Shuffle iT Username: pingpongsam
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 04:11:25 pm »

That last game I mentioned used chathe.net service instead of QT. It was pretty nice in ways that QT is not. I didn't check to see if it allowed email notifications which is the killer feature of QT for me.
Logged
You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

gkrieg13

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 509
  • Shuffle iT Username: gkrieg
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 04:23:34 pm »

a committed subforum for hidden threads (i.e., certain people get access to a thread instead of using QT) is common/expected most places. idk if this forum has that functionality, thinking out loud

It does have that (we use it for admin stuff), but I think it would be prohibitively difficult to do, because all of the subfora need to be made by Theory if I'm not mistaken.  And that obviously isn't going to happen.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3233
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 04:54:12 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.
What? No way! That is the only Day I am alive, and also my favorite.
Logged
The quiet comprehending of the ending of it all

iguanaiguana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 600
  • Shuffle iT Username: iguana iguana
    • View Profile
Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 08:03:32 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.

I like this idea.
Logged
Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4  All
 

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 20 queries.