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Author Topic: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?  (Read 15952 times)

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faust

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Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« on: August 10, 2018, 03:13:17 am »

This is a question I have been asking myself. Over the years I have played here, I have seen drops and spikes in activity. I know I haven't even been around for the most active times, very early on. But we'd usually have multiple games running and every now and again some new members joining.

Now, we stabilized around one game at a time, usually filled with the same group of players. It has been quite a while since someone genuinely new has joined our group - some long-term mafia players have made reappearances, but newbies? But people still leave. So it would seem that the mafia population of this forum is dwindling.

I always liked it here, clearly, otherwise I probably wouldn't have stuck around this long. I think the main part of the problem is the decline of f.ds as a whole, as other things like Discord and reddit take over. There are not many new members of f.ds, and thus not many candidates for joining the mafia ranks.

The people who still are playing also don't have as much time at their hand. Which is natural I suppose. In the old times, people here were at college or going to school even. Now most are working. But it does take an impact on the quality of the games played here, and I find myself enjoying them less.

So what do you think? Is there hope for a rebirth, or should we just enjoy it while it lasts? Can something be done, like moving to some other place?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 03:29:12 am »

Funny, I just had a conversation with a friend about coming on here and playing in the next normal game to start with me. Was hoping to get him into this.

Mafiascum seems like the other site with slower deadlines but it seems like their forums are also full of people lamenting how the site is dying. (For that matter it's a common topic in plenty of IRC channels about other things, etc.)
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Robz888

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 03:29:44 am »

These are good questions. It does feel like we've settled into somewhat of a routine where we have one game at a time, and the game usually involves some combination of me, Galz, faust, gkrieg, LL, Space, mcmc, DS, maybe iguana, maybe EFHW, maybe a slightly less regular player.  (And some others I am sure I am forgetting, sorry!) And I love all these players to death, but it does get a bit repetitive, not having enough new blood.

Part of me thinks perhaps we should be more outlandish with setups? I mean, another part of me, the part that likes incredibly balanced, rigorous games, says no way jose. But when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?), Modern Comm (Mafia, uh, 30 something maybe? somewhere in there), the first PYP slots game run by faust (40, I think?), and each of those were semi nuts, while still being not totally crazy.

I'm not totally thrilled about the prospect of moving, although I think it's a totally legit point to raise. Just seems like we might lose sort of the only thing we have going for us, this sense that this is our home and we have a history here. I think even just looking at a different, like, posting layout, may wreck the experience for me a bit, kill off that nostalgia factor. I don't know. And I wonder if other places are as friendly as we are.

It's a bummer the Forums don't see as much traffic, because that is, obviously, the main issue. I wonder if we could somehow advertise our little mafia sub forum, maybe on other gaming sites? I mean, I don't know, I could put out a call for people to join, like I could tweet or FB it. (I have a not-trivial 21K followers on Twitter.) Probably we would not get cream of the crop. Maybe on gaming boards, though. IMO the key is to bring people to us, not to go somewhere else. I could be wrong though!

I'd love to talk more about this though. It was my 30th birthday two days ago, and naturally it made me think back. I'm quite happy, I gave a good life, and f.ds, and mafia in particular, has been a part of that happiness for the last, what was it, six years? I've met people all over the country, sometimes in person, even from Europe--hi, Eevee!--because of this great group. It's facilitated me staying more in touch with my brother--hi, mcmc! It's more than just a distraction from work, it's really been a great, positive influence on me, and I value you all for being part of it.
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Skumpy

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 04:09:46 am »

Not the most regular in mafia, and still a relative newbie to the forums as a whole, but I'll chime in:

I think the main part of the problem is the decline of f.ds as a whole, as other things like Discord and reddit take over. There are not many new members of f.ds, and thus not many candidates for joining the mafia ranks.

Exactly this, is my take. Over the last year, I'd say the amount of Dominion discussion on the Discord has gone from something like 50% to 95%. The only things at this point outside of mafia that really generate traffic and postings are new expansion announcements (see: 'Renaissance') and fan cards. Even Dominion League is something that's becoming increasingly reallocated away from the forum. And even more than that: I'm not sure there's a lot of people out there who would enjoy Dominion who haven't already discovered the game, a decade after its creation, and so don't discover sites to discuss it, let alone f.ds mafia (though I could be wrong on that).



The only solution I can think of if you want to attract new members, and not have to resort to friends and followers, is to make the Forum Games public to non-users. This very thread is in a place that's not visible to them. At the time of this post, I am reading on the front page '148 Members, 6 Users'.  There are many, many lurkers on these forums who will read anything and everything posted since the dawn of f.ds without ever registering; I should know, I was one for over a year. I would be shocked if not at least a few would be intrigued by mafia.
 
I don't know why the Forum Games are private in the first place, though I trust theory had good reasons for it. If that's something he wants to change, I think that would alleviate some of the issue, at least for a little while.
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LaLight

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2018, 04:31:56 am »

Well, this is the problem. I tried to play Mafia on other forums and it never has been a pleasant experience. People are toxic and rud and I can't see the fun in this. That's why if fds mafia ends some day, I don't think I'll be playing Mafia anywhere else.

Crazy setups are a thing. Br Bad, Firefly, Buffy/Angel, Kubo, all these precious RMMs were the best in my experience. They take time and real motivation to create, but I loved them. Of course, fds overall is dying, this much is true, but I definitely agree we should open the forum games for guests' reading and try to advertise it somewhere. I am really sure there are gaming communtites who don't even know you can play Mafia in plain text. When I tell this to people they are always very surprised.
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crj

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2018, 09:19:17 am »

I seldom play Mafia, and have never played it on f.ds . But I chanced to see this subject line go by, and felt I might be a useful data point.

Classic Werewolf/Mafia suffers from two key problems. The first is player elimination; the second is a lack of information. Almost all the time, you're *only* relying on psychological tells, with little opportunity to apply logic. These problems have been fixed by newer games such as Resistance, Secret Hitler, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Secrets, Mafia de Cuba, Mascarade, Don't Mess With Cthulhu, Triple Agent, Infected, Dracula's Feast, ...

It may be that interest in classic Mafia has waned as a result.
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faust

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 10:00:07 am »

I seldom play Mafia, and have never played it on f.ds . But I chanced to see this subject line go by, and felt I might be a useful data point.

Classic Werewolf/Mafia suffers from two key problems. The first is player elimination; the second is a lack of information. Almost all the time, you're *only* relying on psychological tells, with little opportunity to apply logic. These problems have been fixed by newer games such as Resistance, Secret Hitler, One Night Ultimate Werewolf, Secrets, Mafia de Cuba, Mascarade, Don't Mess With Cthulhu, Triple Agent, Infected, Dracula's Feast, ...

It may be that interest in classic Mafia has waned as a result.
The input is appreciated, but I don't really think that's the issue. The "key problems" you point towards are only really problems IRL. Player elimination sucks when you have to sit around for 2 hours watching your friends play. It's fine when you can just sign up for the next game while the one you died in is still ongoing. Lack of information is less of a problem too, because everthing anyone ever said is recorded. Especially on later days, you can usually piece together who scum is pretty well.

So long story short, you should try it some time ;)
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faust

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 10:02:04 am »

Also we have had runs of both Secret Hitler and Resistance on this forum, and neither has gained much traction.
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hypercube

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2018, 10:58:55 am »

I've been meaning to join in (just missed signups for M117), so that's one newbie.
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LaLight

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2018, 11:38:31 am »

I possibly do have a newbie, who wants to play, but she'd want to play Newbie Mafia as she is not really acquainted with text mafia at all
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LaLight

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2018, 11:40:06 am »

so nothing is lost! :) Let's try to open NM (I can do that) and try to invite as much new players as possible?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2018, 11:44:26 am »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
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faust

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2018, 12:47:59 pm »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
If this is our consensus, I will contact theory about it. But I'll give some more time for others to voice their opinion.

EDIT: There is a poll now.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:55:31 pm by faust »
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LaLight

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 12:56:00 pm »

I have one more idea I am not going to share rn. But making mafia visible to guests is crucial.
If this is our consensus, I will contact theory about it. But I'll give some more time for others to voice their opinion.

EDIT: There is a poll now.

Sure thing. I voted
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pingpongsam

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 02:21:43 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 02:25:55 pm »

I can definitely run a newbie game.  I was wanting to run a game seeing as cryptography mafia doesn't seem like it is going to fill (maybe I should just move that to a RMM game and give it a little more spice?)

I think I'm just too busy lately to really get into mafia games, which obviously takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me.  I agree that getting new blood in here could really help.
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Robz888

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 02:29:28 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 02:32:44 pm »

The other thing is that we could just start experimenting with stuff.  It seems like we have just grown stale with our setups, deadlines, and just general meta.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2018, 02:45:41 pm »

I know given my record my vote shouldn't count for much here, but I love long Day 1s, you jerks  :P

Anyway, there are so many options for weirder but still pretty "normal" setups. I've been overflowing with setup ideas for years, although balance needs to be worried about, and then I get depressed, flake on something and spend 2 years feeling angsty and guilty, so I never build up enough consistent time on site that I feel like I should really mod anything because I don't want to do that to you guys (or myself, given the self-hatred spiral that follows me flaking on anything.)
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schadd

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2018, 03:58:42 pm »

from what i understand the big appeal of someone interested in mafia for a small site like fds is the specific people that are playing here. for example i played here a lot bc even though i don't really mesh with the style here, i know everybody already and have a basis for reading/acting, etc. some people want to play a bunch of different places to like explore different metas, i know for example that jan and fontisian visited here and have been trekking all over the forum mafiaverse

it's tough to get people that are really interested in general forum mafia to play here i think because for most purposes, places like MS and MU are going to be better since there's always going to be games ready and a more diverse set of games/people there as well.

i think if a few people coordinated a big event and talked about it somewhere or got some big names on the MU discord (does anyone know amrock? lmao) to talk about it then people would join and maybe check out the site and accrue name recognition, etc.

things like:
  • no maximum / large maximum player count
  • short deadlines
  • ITAs (in thread attacks, ability for anybody to shoot someone in the thread during the day with like 15% chance to kill)
  • other incidental gameplay events (e.g. sub-games that a subset of players can opt to play)
  • role madness or generally fun/neat roles
routinely get huge playerlists very quickly on MU and have been mediumly popular on MS. people will wanna post a lot though

also, like, if somebody else wants to make pilgrimages to MS and MU and like ToS forum and MTG salvation and some other big forums and be like "if you liked playing with me you can visit fds which is the meta i come from." i think mtg salvation in particular is this forum's speed.

lastly, it's not like a problem if it's just you guys playing with each other. i don't really think there is a decline in forum use happening that's worth worrying about. i think there will continue to be a medium trickle of newbies for like a while, idk
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schadd

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2018, 04:00:39 pm »

a committed subforum for hidden threads (i.e., certain people get access to a thread instead of using QT) is common/expected most places. idk if this forum has that functionality, thinking out loud
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pingpongsam

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2018, 04:11:25 pm »

That last game I mentioned used chathe.net service instead of QT. It was pretty nice in ways that QT is not. I didn't check to see if it allowed email notifications which is the killer feature of QT for me.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 04:23:34 pm »

a committed subforum for hidden threads (i.e., certain people get access to a thread instead of using QT) is common/expected most places. idk if this forum has that functionality, thinking out loud

It does have that (we use it for admin stuff), but I think it would be prohibitively difficult to do, because all of the subfora need to be made by Theory if I'm not mistaken.  And that obviously isn't going to happen.
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faust

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2018, 04:54:12 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.
What? No way! That is the only Day I am alive, and also my favorite.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 08:03:32 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.

I like this idea.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2018, 08:34:10 pm »

A few thoughts about setup creation to help get us out of a mafia rut:

My setups have been a bit tame/lame maybe. This has been somewhat intentional because I didn't want to dive too deep into craziness when modding my first few games. So that may have contributed to a feeling of staleness. (I also really don't mind playing a lot of 9++ stuff because I think it's really good.) I also have trouble coming up with inventive M ideas; when I try to make something creative, my ideas usually got to RMM, not M.

I also have shied away from writing flavor because of the work and the pressure of writing something good on the fly, but maybe that is something that would make the games feel more cared for if I put the time into doing it well?

As far as spicy new setups, I have an idea for a setup that would be "f.ds forum mafia players" themed. It would be created collaboratively with no limitations on what the roles could exist in the collaboration phase, then curated by me into something balanced by me and any co-mod that might want to help.

So basically people could submit a role to the role-bank for the setup and the only limitation is that the flavor name needs to be someone who has played at least one game of f.ds mafia. And then at the end I'll pick some roles from it and make a cool setup up out of the bank of submissions. Signups could be unlimited too during the brainstorm phase because I'll just build a setup based on how many people want to play. 

Possibly a way to break up the rut by getting us all to collaborate on something and then play it?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2018, 09:37:27 pm »

Hey Iguana, I don't know you, but I have a weird idea. What if we co-mod a game but instead of one person being the sort of backup, we talk about interesting setup ideas together and then there are also two people to deal with writing the flavor while also dealing with the night action resolution/administrative end of things. Like an actual team-team rather than a main mod and an assistant/backup?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2018, 09:51:35 pm »

I'm definitely open to that!
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2018, 05:22:51 am »

So, I will open NM today and I will try to advertise it in Dominion Discord. I messaged jsh as of now to try to make a channel in the discord dedicated to forum games. If people don't like it, fine, they can hide it. But a lot of people who joined the league will see the message. I am waiting on jsh's confirmation now
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2018, 06:40:56 am »

also, mail-mi's coming back in 3 months! :)
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2018, 07:32:26 am »

while we're on it, how awesome it would be that civility pledge post wound count as a post and newbies won't have to make a post to not have a captcha
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2018, 10:08:28 am »

while we're on it, how awesome it would be that civility pledge post wound count as a post and newbies won't have to make a post to not have a captcha

super awesome

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2018, 12:52:16 pm »

I advertised forum games on Discord
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2018, 06:18:50 pm »

I advertised forum games on Discord

Yes, yes you did. In general there are "better" places to play online Mafia, but what this place has is community. The downside is that a new player suffers the disadvantage of not knowing the expected meta nor how people tend to play. Having multiple "new player" games might help alleviate that, but that requires more new people to join in (hence advertising on discord seems like a good idea).
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2018, 09:16:18 pm »

Hi!

I came because of the Discord post and really appreciate the newby game.  The husband might be interested as well, if for no other reason than to understand the new language that I am learning.  So, I think periodic announcements to Dominion folks on Disocrd is a great idea.  And if course, more newby games to teach us the ropes.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2018, 01:10:33 am »

should we like always have a newbie game open?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2018, 02:26:03 am »

should we like always have a newbie game open?
Well there is of course the danger that they don't fill for a while and then the newbies lose interest, when they could have just joined a regular game instead. I am unsure what the best course of action is.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2018, 05:23:19 am »

So, I've been "researching" different text Mafia sites and I found out that people are fond of short day games. Like 36-12 or even 24-12 (being Days and Nights respectively) with easy setups. I think this is mostly accurate, because you know you can play a game of Mafia in a week or so, if this is 9-11 person setups and it doesn't make games stall even on D1. We can try that?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2018, 05:23:55 am »

should we like always have a newbie game open?
Well there is of course the danger that they don't fill for a while and then the newbies lose interest, when they could have just joined a regular game instead. I am unsure what the best course of action is.

Well, I can try advertising on Discord once in a while, but given that I have to ping everybody on a server, that can be annoying to people.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2018, 05:25:18 am »

What we also can do is a thread where people tell they want to play games and their experience (vet/newbie/something in a middle). As soon as eligible amount of people is /in, we can open a game. But that puts a responsibility on mods. I can take one.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2018, 05:27:38 am »

I have played on other sites and I am rather fond of long days. We could perhaps make day1 shorter, but I wouldn't play in a game where all days are only 48 hours.

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2018, 05:49:12 am »

I have played on other sites and I am rather fond of long days. We could perhaps make day1 shorter, but I wouldn't play in a game where all days are only 48 hours.
I am not interested in playing any game where any day is shorter than 7 days.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2018, 05:50:10 am »

So, I've been "researching" different text Mafia sites and I found out that people are fond of short day games. Like 36-12 or even 24-12 (being Days and Nights respectively) with easy setups. I think this is mostly accurate, because you know you can play a game of Mafia in a week or so, if this is 9-11 person setups and it doesn't make games stall even on D1. We can try that?
We have the Blitz Mafia format for that. Lately none of them has filled up, so I doubt this would help. But feel free to try.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2018, 06:27:43 am »

What we also can do is a thread where people tell they want to play games and their experience (vet/newbie/something in a middle). As soon as eligible amount of people is /in, we can open a game. But that puts a responsibility on mods. I can take one.

@faust what do you think about this one?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2018, 07:23:56 am »

What we also can do is a thread where people tell they want to play games and their experience (vet/newbie/something in a middle). As soon as eligible amount of people is /in, we can open a game. But that puts a responsibility on mods. I can take one.

@faust what do you think about this one?

People often don't seem too interested in the idea of a mafia game vs an actual open one.

IE: when I polled people on preferred setup, very few responses, but the game itself filled quickly.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2018, 11:14:21 am »

After skimming the forum a bit, I am noticing in the titles of completed games that town seems to win a lot, how often would you say town wins here? It could be that I just hit a batch of town wins and the scum wins are elsewhere.

Obviously long days benefits town more than scum, so messing with the length of days can help to tweak balance issues like that.

I think that week long days makes it rough for scum to sneak in kills, (or even just get a no-lynch) I know IRL requires the moderator to be quite strict about time or else the town just runs away with the game.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2018, 11:22:08 am »

Scum definitely used to win more from M70ish up to M100. I don't think we have balance issues inherent in our system.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2018, 11:56:05 am »

I have played on other sites and I am rather fond of long days. We could perhaps make day1 shorter, but I wouldn't play in a game where all days are only 48 hours.
I am not interested in playing any game where any day is shorter than 7 days.
I'm with faust for the most part.

This is kind of a cool idea that could be good for small, fast-moving games though:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Callforjudgement%27s_Micro_Deadlines
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #48 on: August 23, 2018, 01:04:27 pm »

I wouldn't like a 48-hour deadline either, but I think 7 days is a lot of time and it generally causes the game to stagnate a lot. 4 or 5 days would make the game more active.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #49 on: August 23, 2018, 01:44:03 pm »

7 does seem a bit extreme.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #50 on: August 23, 2018, 01:56:52 pm »

I may open a game soon that has 5-day deadlines ending on Thursdays so that night is on Friday-Saturday (usually lowest activity) and then the days start on Sundays.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #51 on: August 23, 2018, 01:59:14 pm »

I may open a game soon that has 5-day deadlines ending on Thursdays so that night is on Friday-Saturday (usually lowest activity) and then the days start on Sundays.

I say go for it
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #52 on: August 23, 2018, 02:01:34 pm »

I may open a game soon that has 5-day deadlines ending on Thursdays so that night is on Friday-Saturday (usually lowest activity) and then the days start on Sundays.

What about quicklynches?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #53 on: August 23, 2018, 02:04:45 pm »

I may open a game soon that has 5-day deadlines ending on Thursdays so that night is on Friday-Saturday (usually lowest activity) and then the days start on Sundays.

What about quicklynches?

I don't think they happen often enough, but I guess that would change the schedule.  Might be a tactic for scum to try to get the deadline to be on Saturday morning, or while most of Europe is asleep.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #54 on: August 23, 2018, 02:21:13 pm »

My dream would be for a three-day Day 1, a five-day Day 2, and then regular seven-day days.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #55 on: August 23, 2018, 02:54:06 pm »

7 does seem a bit extreme.
Actually it used to be longer. I think when I started, 10 days were the norm, and I played at least one game with 14 day deadlines, though that one did drag out.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #56 on: August 23, 2018, 02:55:21 pm »

My dream would be for a three-day Day 1, a five-day Day 2, and then regular seven-day days.

This is as far as I would go on this (not necessarily with those exact times):

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #57 on: August 23, 2018, 02:59:39 pm »

My dream would be for a three-day Day 1, a five-day Day 2, and then regular seven-day days.

This is as far as I would go on this (not necessarily with those exact times):

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline

Woah this is good!
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2018, 03:03:29 pm »

My dream would be for a three-day Day 1, a five-day Day 2, and then regular seven-day days.

This is as far as I would go on this (not necessarily with those exact times):

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline

Woah this is good!

This would be interesting, although I hate that it leaves open the possibility of an even longer Day 1. And probably the mafia want to drag out Day 1 as long as possible, just to make future days seem rushed. Although of course I guess you can be scum hunting for people whoa re prolonging the day, which might be interesting.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2018, 03:25:16 pm »

My dream would be for a three-day Day 1, a five-day Day 2, and then regular seven-day days.

This is as far as I would go on this (not necessarily with those exact times):

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline

Woah this is good!

We tried it for a while, but it didn't stick.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2018, 03:50:47 pm »

How often did people ever bank significant amounts of time?

In case people were just skimming and glazed over about all the prod stuff on the rules I linked
Quote
Day deadlines are initially short but can be extended.

The initial length of each Day deadline will be 96 hours. Note that this is just an initial length; it's typical for the deadline to be repeatedly extended (meaning that the game will have a pace more like a Newbie game than a Blitz game).

Each player has a one-shot deadline extension, which can be used by posting "Extend deadline" (or similar) in the game thread. The effectiveness of this depends on the number of prods the player using the extension has received:
  • No prods: deadline will be extended by 64 hours
  • 1 prod: deadline will be extended by 56 hours
  • 2 prods: deadline will be extended by 48 hours
  • 3 prods: deadline will be extended by 40 hours
  • 4 prods: deadline will be extended by 32 hours
If a player replaces in, they will replace in with no prods and a deadline extension active. Because of this, there is no automatic extension when a player replaces in (but they can if they wish immediately use their extension to give themself time to catch up).

I feel like there's probably room to fudge the numbers for different game lengths.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2018, 04:05:06 pm »

How often did people ever bank significant amounts of time?

In case people were just skimming and glazed over about all the prod stuff on the rules I linked
Quote
Day deadlines are initially short but can be extended.

The initial length of each Day deadline will be 96 hours. Note that this is just an initial length; it's typical for the deadline to be repeatedly extended (meaning that the game will have a pace more like a Newbie game than a Blitz game).

Each player has a one-shot deadline extension, which can be used by posting "Extend deadline" (or similar) in the game thread. The effectiveness of this depends on the number of prods the player using the extension has received:
  • No prods: deadline will be extended by 64 hours
  • 1 prod: deadline will be extended by 56 hours
  • 2 prods: deadline will be extended by 48 hours
  • 3 prods: deadline will be extended by 40 hours
  • 4 prods: deadline will be extended by 32 hours
If a player replaces in, they will replace in with no prods and a deadline extension active. Because of this, there is no automatic extension when a player replaces in (but they can if they wish immediately use their extension to give themself time to catch up).

I feel like there's probably room to fudge the numbers for different game lengths.
Interesting, but a bit complicated when the end result is probably not much different from what we are used to. Also I dislike the idea of using prods for game mechanics. It makes it seem that prods are a natural part of the game; they are not, they are a sign that you have broken the rules.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2018, 04:07:21 pm »


Interesting, but a bit complicated when the end result is probably not much different from what we are used to. Also I dislike the idea of using prods for game mechanics. It makes it seem that prods are a natural part of the game; they are not, they are a sign that you have broken the rules.

Well that's why that link has the whole big section about prods that kept everyone from reading it. The prod rules need to be a bit different with those rules, but I think it would actually change things quite a bit. Because players have to publicly choose to get a deadline extension, and that itself is something that can generate reads.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2018, 04:08:26 pm »

I mean, the whole concept is to have a game of similar length, but less mid-day activity stalling.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2018, 07:04:46 am »

I advertised forum games on Discord

In general there are "better" places to play online Mafia, but what this place has is community.

This.
f.ds does not exist primarily for Mafia (there's that DXV game...) so I think that makes it feel more friendly. My identity on this site does not depend on my (lack of) ability at Mafia.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2018, 08:19:21 am »

f.ds does not exist primarily for Mafia (there's that DXV game...)

You can play Kingdom Builder here?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2018, 01:06:37 am »

I have played on other sites and I am rather fond of long days. We could perhaps make day1 shorter, but I wouldn't play in a game where all days are only 48 hours.
I am not interested in playing any game where any day is shorter than 7 days.
I'm with faust for the most part.

This is kind of a cool idea that could be good for small, fast-moving games though:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Callforjudgement%27s_Micro_Deadlines

I like the mechanics this offers but it definitely makes use of prods in a mechanical way differently than what we're used to on this site.

Calamitas

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2018, 01:46:19 pm »

I recently played my first non-f.ds online game at another forum. It was totally different. It was real role madness, with the list of possible roles exceeding 50. Total player count was nearing 30. People didn't really want to play in the thread to the point the mods have a standing rule of at least 2 posts per game day per player or you are mod killed. Days were 48 hours and nights were 24 hours. That said, it was actually huge fun. I coerced some people to thread play and appreciated the complicated setup was actually decently balanced and did rely heavily on night results.

I'd like to see us move to more outlandish setups but retain some of our better qualities. I think our days may be too long. I think our setups are too logical. For example, this game I played had two cult factions, a serial killer, a psycho, and town had doubled PRs and a mason (who can't be recruited ever and kills scum when he tries to recruit them). Despite playing a perfect game and never mislynching and even every nightkill hitting scum it was tense the entire time as we slowly discovered there were two cult factions and even knew who some cult members were but were hunting the leaders who did the recruiting. We had a Consulting VT which I had never even heard of.

I agree that our days our too long. Especially Day 1. Maybe it's just me, but Day 1 is my least favorite aspect of the game. We should do an experiment with 72 hours for Day 1.
*cough ;-)
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2018, 10:18:51 am »

But when I think back to the most entertaining games over the long haul, some of them were a bit wild. I mean, for me personally, some highlights were: Joetheonah's Deep Space Nine (Mafia 19, I think?), Modern Comm (Mafia, uh, 30 something maybe? somewhere in there), the first PYP slots game run by faust (40, I think?), and each of those were semi nuts, while still being not totally crazy.

Robz I'm touched. I have actually been thinking about re-running the DS9 setup -- part of what got me thinking about coming back and saying hi.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2018, 10:48:03 am »

Just found this thread.  Created a little after I stopped being active...coincidence?   :P

I will say I definitely went through phases of feeling what faust felt when he started the thread.  Hopefully youíve felt a comeback?
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2018, 10:50:27 am »

Also, while I havenít been playing much at all here, I would never play anywhere else. The one time I did was to be the first f.ds rep at the mega championship, and it didnít really suit me. I like the longer days since they allow for a variety of players with different availability times and such.
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2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2019, 11:45:27 am »

Also, while I havenít been playing much at all here, I would never play anywhere else. The one time I did was to be the first f.ds rep at the mega championship, and it didnít really suit me. I like the longer days since they allow for a variety of players with different availability times and such.

I've played elsewhere lately and while it was okay I very, very much prefer playing here.
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You are the brashest scum player on f.ds.

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2019, 08:11:59 pm »

It would be cool if someone wrote an add-on for Chrome/Explorer that would do some of the things they have on other sites, like tagging messages, better search.
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popsofctown

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2019, 01:16:23 pm »

Why are you guys trying mafia sites other than the best mafia site then concluding that all the other mafia sites suck?

Like I came here from mafiascum and kicked things off with mafiascum-style long deadlines, why are you guys playing sites with trollish 36 hour deadlines to try to figure out if there's another good mafia site.  There is one.  It's called mafiascum.

It's possible that dominion-forum-people have a high likelihood of not being toxic so there might be a couple more bad apple dodging things you need to do on a bigger site but like mafiascum has a great well developed style and the relaxed deadlines you prefer and is pretty stylistically similar to the way you guys play here as far as what I skim
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2019, 02:26:01 pm »

I played one game on mafiascum and found it horrible. I subbed out and never tried again.

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2019, 03:33:12 pm »

Yeah that's the bad apple dodging I mentioned, that game had kuribo, who has been temporarily banned several times and causes people to replace out a lot.  He's the exception more than the rule.

It looks like that game also has another user who was later permanently banned from the site, I'm less familiar with him.

I don't think that was a typical experience, but I certainly can't say the "floor" on mafiascum isn't low, the floor is low.  I like the median experience there though.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #76 on: November 05, 2019, 05:24:49 pm »

Okay, fair.

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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2019, 09:44:27 am »

I played somewhat of 4-5 games on mafiascum, and none of them was a pleasant experience.
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Re: Meta: Does f.ds Mafia have a future?
« Reply #78 on: November 07, 2019, 12:26:01 pm »

:(
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