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Author Topic: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)  (Read 104656 times)

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Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #975 on: August 27, 2018, 02:05:42 pm »

silverspawn is MVP for being active and carrying the game all the way being extremely scummy all the way.

Hey, thanks!

@skumpy: I'm not sure if LaLight pointed this out, but I assume the vote from EFHW didn't count because it didn't have a colon. I take it that you thought that you were preventing a big mod error (and I did too, didn't notice the colon until I double checked)

Been confirmed. Well played, despite everybody except me's confidence you were scum. You were basically my next-up suspect the entire game, until D3 got underway.
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Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #976 on: August 27, 2018, 02:07:52 pm »

Hey guests are viewing this thread.  Means this forum being public at least has a couple people curious.

Mafia Game Threads indicates there's currently 45 of 'em.


Also, while I'm here and still slightly emotional and since you're probably not going to say it:

Somebody go sign up for gkrieg's game. The guy's waited a damn year to get it started.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #977 on: August 27, 2018, 02:11:24 pm »

LaLight, it's too late now, but shouldn't the night have at least played out?

The lynch happened prior to the rule infraction. This means that at the time of the infraction, there should've been:

6 alive, 2 of whom were scum.

After the mod kill, that's:

5 alive, 2 of whom are scum.

Scum doesn't know if the Vig is 1 shot or not, so they may have chosen to block him and kill the RB - but the RB could've blocked the NK, yes?

No, Robz is Strongman.

Ah, nevermind then.

However I don't believe scum can claim perfect victory here lol

I agree.  Technically Raptor was lynched before Skumpy was modkilled.

I also agree, but the modkill happened before the flip was posted, so you can legitimately argue that raptor wasn't dead yet

Hmmmmm, so if the last mafia is lynched and the mod locks the thread and one of the townies posts, is it a modkill and a win for mafia?  Obviously this doesn't matter at all, but your thought got me thinking.
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silverspawn

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #978 on: August 27, 2018, 02:12:18 pm »

Here's my QT.

not that I know this better than anyone else, but my honest guess is that the first two cases on me all stuff I do as town and I just happened to be scum this time. I mean, I've had wagons in the majority of games where I was town lately, too. Space' point about the wagon on the other hand was definitely something that would not have happened if I had been town, since we specifically made a point not to bus.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #979 on: August 27, 2018, 02:12:37 pm »

Whoa! What happened? What did Skumpy do that was so bad? Just a caps post, or am I missing something bigger because I was phone-reading?

Weirdly, I had a dream a couple of nights ago that we (f.ds mafia people at large) were all in a castle somewhere decorating it for some unknown person's wedding, and then I was following people surreptitiously to try and work out who the scum were. It turns out Mcmc was behind the entire plot all along, and he was all the scums. I wonder whether that was my gut telling me to be more suspicious of Robz, but I wasn't about to follow my gut when I had logic :-P
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silverspawn

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #980 on: August 27, 2018, 02:15:11 pm »

Hmmmmm, so if the last mafia is lynched and the mod locks the thread and one of the townies posts, is it a modkill and a win for mafia?  Obviously this doesn't matter at all, but your thought got me thinking.

Maybe that would get people to stop doing that!

But again I agree with you, my point was just that you could make an argument.
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silverspawn

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #981 on: August 27, 2018, 02:19:46 pm »

Whoa! What happened? What did Skumpy do that was so bad? Just a caps post, or am I missing something bigger because I was phone-reading?

Posting after the thread was locked.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #982 on: August 27, 2018, 05:20:38 pm »

IMO this is bad strategic thinking. Your job as VT is to convince other towns you are town and draw the Nigjt Kill.

Sure. Except there weren't any more VT kills that were going to happen.

Right, so at the point that you know you won't be killed anymore, your focus can shift toward 100% proving your towniness to people who doubt you and think you are scum. If someone suspects you, even if you think they are scum, that is the person whose arguments you should be engaging most and showing more than anything that they are wrong.

IMO LyLo should be town's last chance for thought reflection and analysis of the whole game. Every town should be going into it ready to reconsider everything, throw their old reads out the window, and solve the game as much as possible. It is absolutely the last place you should ever give into the temptation to throw out an OMGUS vote or be fatalistic about what someone else might do.

It's also just flat out not fair to gkrieg to constantly be saying all game "you'll never change your mind about me." I would hate having someone say something like that to me, and it would totally become a self fulfilling prophecy as my annoyance against them would just make my scumread stronger.

Anyway, again, I mean this as advice, and in all kindness. Your playstyle and approach to the game (an emotional one) reminds a lot of how I played four years ago when I started playing here. But getting emotionally invested in one of these games has the potential to burn you out really fast as well as make you play worse. You don't want to go the way of Yuma, so just bear that in mind going forward.

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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #983 on: August 27, 2018, 05:22:04 pm »

In other news, thanks for the game Lalight! This is the first ever time that I died N1, and definitely the first time where I had good reads and was killed for them. Usually I'm the one with bad reads who survives and loses the game on behalf of all the people who had good reads and died.

So, a very satisfying first for me, despite the loss.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #984 on: August 27, 2018, 06:21:10 pm »

Yes, LL, thank you! I really enjoyed that game: it had a very satisfying level of PoE and technical bits as well as reads :-)

I'm stoked to find that all three of the deductions I posted back at #593 were totally accurate, even the EFHW-vs-Raptor one I was a little less sure on. Even with super-lurky scum, town-on-town wagons don't look like they got to more than three votes.

I also think that the "two truths out of three" thing Skumpy was trying to force was flawed for exactly the reasons I was trying to say it was, but am not sure I really conveyed: silver and Raptor put in a really good little piece of distancing performance there that Skumpy fell for, because silver was able to see what sort of reaction is actions would likely generate, whereas with the D1 votes I was working with, there was far, far less chance for the scumteam to understand how that might end up influencing the game in future days after the intervening flips.

I do think it's really interesting to look at vote-by-vote states across a game, and I think the reason people aren't so ready to believe me when I assert stuff based on them is just that they're not used to seeing them. Would anyone be interested in me posting the complete coloured-in history for this game? Of course, the downside of this is that I'm going to be less able to trust scum D1 votes in the future if people start getting wise to it, but it's still a hard thing for scum to work with, and also I like the idea of keeping the game fresh and interesting for me too :-)
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #985 on: August 27, 2018, 06:40:34 pm »

As for how the game was going to turn out, I think scum may well have won even if Skumpy hadn't been modkilled. We were lynching Raptor, then I think scum had to kill me because they didn't know I only had one single shot, though if their RB takes precedence over EFHW, then they could conceivably have RBd me safely and killed elsewhere, depending on where their RB was (I haven't read the scum QT stuff yet)... I'm still thinking this through, having got home from my evening's rehearsals a short while ago.

Anyway, I think I'd have died in the night. EFHW may have taken my silver case into account... I think he was so obviously conf!scum at the end. I was starting to worry about gkrieg over Skumpy precisely because I was concerned about his alleged town tell on me, which evidently must have been true, or just a very good one-off read on his part. Either way the D4 lynch would have been sliced, D5 ends up with gkrieg, Skumpy and one of the scums.

@silver, I really have to disagree with you when you said that Skumpy was obv!town in your QT. Maybe he appeared that way to scum, but to me he was coming up with some pretty ridiculous reasons to try to undermine my reasoning, while keeping up a lot of active patter with you, and focusing with some intensity on his disagreement with gkrieg to the point where he was unwilling to look at actual evidence. His ATE-style stuff was a little more townie, but the way you and he engaged made him look that much more scummy in my eyes, especially after he seemed to be doing your work for you in distancing from Raptor. Those are my excuses, anyway!! :-P
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #986 on: August 27, 2018, 06:43:08 pm »

speccy
Mason QT
Scum QT

silverspawn is MVP for being active and carrying the game all the way being extremely scummy all the way.

Scum qt link goes to mod QT
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Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #987 on: August 27, 2018, 06:43:51 pm »

Oh, and as for excuses: @Simon, very sorry I shot you in error!

FWIW, I was very confident that one of you and silver had to be scum, and the fact you were on the other wagon with Robz and Skumpy meant it was better to shoot you than silver, because that gave us better PoE. I also had to shoot someone in order to IC myself, and I was going to be outed and perma-RBd as soon as we did a mass-claim anyway, so I took the shot..
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #988 on: August 27, 2018, 06:45:33 pm »

speccy
Mason QT
Scum QT

silverspawn is MVP for being active and carrying the game all the way being extremely scummy all the way.

Scum qt link goes to mod QT

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/H67ByUwsCLAf5 -- real scum QT is here (from silver's personal QT).
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silverspawn

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #989 on: August 27, 2018, 06:48:23 pm »

Scum QT PPE: nvm

@silver, I really have to disagree with you when you said that Skumpy was obv!town in your QT. Maybe he appeared that way to scum, but to me he was coming up with some pretty ridiculous reasons to try to undermine my reasoning, while keeping up a lot of active patter with you, and focusing with some intensity on his disagreement with gkrieg to the point where he was unwilling to look at actual evidence. His ATE-style stuff was a little more townie, but the way you and he engaged made him look that much more scummy in my eyes, especially after he seemed to be doing your work for you in distancing from Raptor. Those are my excuses, anyway!! :-P


Interesting opinion. Not buying it  :P
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Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #990 on: August 27, 2018, 06:50:32 pm »

Let me be clear that at this point in time, no matter what it sounds like, I truly bear absolutely no ill will towards anybody. Not Iguana, not gkrieg, not Lalight. Nobody, except maybe myself. And actually maybe towards LaLight for not sticking with probably the most terrifying flavor this site has ever seen. Without further ado:

IMO this is bad strategic thinking. Your job as VT is to convince other towns you are town and draw the Nigjt Kill.

Sure. Except there weren't any more VT kills that were going to happen.

Right, so at the point that you know you won't be killed anymore, your focus can shift toward 100% proving your towniness to people who doubt you and think you are scum. If someone suspects you, even if you think they are scum, that is the person whose arguments you should be engaging most and showing more than anything that they are wrong.

IMO LyLo should be town's last chance for thought reflection and analysis of the whole game. Every town should be going into it ready to reconsider everything, throw their old reads out the window, and solve the game as much as possible. It is absolutely the last place you should ever give into the temptation to throw out an OMGUS vote or be fatalistic about what someone else might do.

It's not 100%, because I also need to find scum and my 1 teammate since I don't get to rely on IC's forever. If it's town's job to convince everybody who thinks they're scum that they're town, then shouldn't gkrieg have been making cases for himself against my vote? The fact that he didn't suggests one and only one thing to me: he wasn't bothering because he was almost as equally sure I was scum. The only argument I currently see him making on D3 is a question to Robz asking why he's so sure I'm town. And even if I convince him, that doesn't mean I'm not going to vote him. I went back and forth on who I thought town was between 3 of the 4 unknowns. Guess who I didn't consider.


Mafia can be explained in 3 words: Hindsight is 20/20.  When you know the scumteam, it's obvious who it is. But for gkrieg, when I'm posting in my way and avoiding the D2 lynch, that is admittedly pretty damning evidence. Again: it's not a bad case, I get it. But it's easy for gkrieg to say "I was starting to come around to you" after the game. Even if it's true (and again, it's a post that implies I still would never become townier than Robz), there's one post I remember reading from M100 that I didn't believe at the time, and now I do (can't remember the who/where); when you have opinions heading into the end, it's incredibly tough to change them. This probably applies to gkrieg this game. It for sure applies to me this game. My guess N2 for the team was (in order of scum): gkrieg/silver/probRobz. During claiming, that then became gkrieg/Robz/probSilver. And by the time claiming was over, it became gkrieg/Robz/probRaptor. Notice the constant? Yes, it's awful. But the absolute most stupid way to look in this game is to correctly accuse a scum all game long...and then change your mind at the last second. And as bad as it sounds, there's something in preferring to lose by sticking to your guns than to risk a win by switching because that latter loss feels so much worse than the former loss. Expected value, in a nutshell. Not all losses are created equal. Which reminds me, Iguana, I believe you have some unfinished business involving your sig.

It's also just flat out not fair to gkrieg to constantly be saying all game "you'll never change your mind about me." I would hate having someone say something like that to me, and it would totally become a self fulfilling prophecy as my annoyance against them would just make my scumread stronger.

I spent several days and posts trying to convince him since I never actually scumread him until N2. He didn't give me anything to respond to except arguments based on tone (which is probably easy eventually with me. But not yet) and an argument on D1 stuff where I never get things right. And the best way to convince someone is to make good reads and play well, which is what I tried to do. Emphasis on 'tried'. My big readthrough at the end of D2, I even gave him town status for tunneling me. When D3 arrives and there's only 1 mystery town left, what're the odds it's the guy who's been going for me all game long? I realized it was perfect camouflage for someone to go after me the entire time because it's me and my posting style, and nobody would ever suspect them because it's always rational for someone to suspect me early on and irrational for scum to stick to someone all game long and make only one other vote that was completely based on my beliefs. Until N2, I'm not sure the possibility that gkrieg was scum crossed anybody's minds, speccy included. That makes me suspicious. It wasn't a pure OMGUS move, it had a 75% chance of being right all other things forgotten. Is that high enough that it's an excuse for me at least not reading back? No. But it's high enough that coupled with other factors and theorizing, I felt pretty good placing it there early before claiming was finished. Lesson learned.

Anyway, again, I mean this as advice, and in all kindness. Your playstyle and approach to the game (an emotional one) reminds a lot of how I played four years ago when I started playing here. But getting emotionally invested in one of these games has the potential to burn you out really fast as well as make you play worse. You don't want to go the way of Yuma, so just bear that in mind going forward.

Understood, appreciated, and duly noted. There's a reason 1 game at a time is my absolute limit. I don't make decisions based on emotion nearly as much as you might think, even though I do play with more emotion than probably anybody (though I'm improving! M105 was about as low as one can go for me). I don't think I've ever made a vote on tone; I do it based on actions, and most importantly, POE lategame. If wagons are Space's calling card, then I'm hoping POE can be mine once I stop forcing it.

And I've looked at the most recent posts of Yuma before; that's a tale with a history I'm well versed in. There's a nonzero probability something could happen to enrage me away from mafia permanently, but it wouldn't be the cause for me to hate any one of you or leave this community altogether.

In other news, thanks for the game Lalight!
^

PPE all of Space and silver (this took a while)
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Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #991 on: August 27, 2018, 07:00:21 pm »

I also think that the "two truths out of three" thing Skumpy was trying to force was flawed for exactly the reasons I was trying to say it was, but am not sure I really conveyed: silver and Raptor put in a really good little piece of distancing performance there that Skumpy fell for, because silver was able to see what sort of reaction is actions would likely generate, whereas with the D1 votes I was working with, there was far, far less chance for the scumteam to understand how that might end up influencing the game in future days after the intervening flips.

I do think it's really interesting to look at vote-by-vote states across a game, and I think the reason people aren't so ready to believe me when I assert stuff based on them is just that they're not used to seeing them. Would anyone be interested in me posting the complete coloured-in history for this game? Of course, the downside of this is that I'm going to be less able to trust scum D1 votes in the future if people start getting wise to it, but it's still a hard thing for scum to work with, and also I like the idea of keeping the game fresh and interesting for me too :-)

The two truths and a lie was always correct no matter what! I just didn't know which of the 3.

A big reason for me voting gkrieg was there was scum who voted me D2. If it wasn't gkrieg and it was Raptor, I had to clear him from being on a team with any 2 of {Space, EFHW, silver, Robz}. Also Simon, because I couldn't find a good reason to eliminate Simon/Robz/Raptor, but that ended up being a moot point D3. Space was easy to clear because of the gkrieg read. EFHW was easy to clear since Raptor doesn't place the vote on EFHW over ss unless they're all teamed (whadya know?). But you'll notice when you read back I had to hedge the elimination with silver by consoling myself with Swan's read. I really wanted to get gkrieg, so I had to brush it under the table for good. If there was any 1 piece I wasn't confident on, it was that, and it was something I was making sure to allow myself time to reconsider D3 in case I somehow found Robz townier than Silver.

Wagon stuff helps of course, but there's times when it can lead you astray, as you yourself alluded to in your last sentence.  It might become the norm for all 3 scum to gang up on somebody D1. But it was a very good case on silver, and it's one I never dismissed. I just had dirt on all 4 of the people left, something had to give.

But yes, I'd love to see it.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #992 on: August 27, 2018, 07:02:49 pm »

It's not 100%, because I also need to find scum and my 1 teammate since I don't get to rely on IC's forever. If it's town's job to convince everybody who thinks they're scum that they're town, then shouldn't gkrieg have been making cases for himself against my vote? The fact that he didn't suggests one and only one thing to me: he wasn't bothering because he was almost as equally sure I was scum. The only argument I currently see him making on D3 is a question to Robz asking why he's so sure I'm town. And even if I convince him, that doesn't mean I'm not going to vote him. I went back and forth on who I thought town was between 3 of the 4 unknowns. Guess who I didn't consider.

Here's the thing though. Once EFHW voted for Raptor, and Robz and silverspawn both voted for him, and then gkrieg refused to vote him and you also refused to vote him, Raptor was 100% confirmed scum. Space and EFHW were both confirmed ICs. So there was a confirmed town vote on Raptor, and all non-IC players refused to take the quickhammer on Raptor at LyLo. At this point, you have confirmed scum. It does matter that you have a 95% scum read on gkrieg, because you can shelve that for another day and take the hammer on 100% confirmed scum.

If you had done that, the game would still be going, but you had your gkrieg blinders on so heavy that you didn't see confirmed scum right in front of your face.

To be fair, I agree that until Lylo you tried really hard to convince gkrieg you were town and got nowhere. And that would be really frustrating. That's why it is so important to play rationally and not emotionally at LyLo and constantly be evaluating the changing game state. Anyway, it's really no big deal. I just wanted to clarify what exactly you did (other than break the rules and get mod-killed) that I believe you can probably learn from for the next game.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #993 on: August 27, 2018, 07:06:56 pm »

It's not 100%, because I also need to find scum and my 1 teammate since I don't get to rely on IC's forever.

Huh. I was trying hard to persuade you all that having two ICs in so few players was a great opportunity to solve it all, meaning you would have had us to rely on to map things out, and then just an algorithm to execute.

What I had asked for was for people to talk more and not vote, because I was trying to get a good case together on gkrieg being town. I was doing that because I was letting other players' doubts lead me to re-examine my position, and I was half-expecting that he wouldn't be able to follow through and show me that he was telling the truth about a town-tell, which would have turned me over to your position.
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Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them

Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #994 on: August 27, 2018, 07:07:22 pm »

As for how the game was going to turn out, I think scum may well have won even if Skumpy hadn't been modkilled. We were lynching Raptor, then I think scum had to kill me because they didn't know I only had one single shot, though if their RB takes precedence over EFHW, then they could conceivably have RBd me safely and killed elsewhere, depending on where their RB was (I haven't read the scum QT stuff yet)... I'm still thinking this through, having got home from my evening's rehearsals a short while ago.

Anyway, I think I'd have died in the night. EFHW may have taken my silver case into account... I think he was so obviously conf!scum at the end. I was starting to worry about gkrieg over Skumpy precisely because I was concerned about his alleged town tell on me, which evidently must have been true, or just a very good one-off read on his part. Either way the D4 lynch would have been sliced, D5 ends up with gkrieg, Skumpy and one of the scums.

@silver, I really have to disagree with you when you said that Skumpy was obv!town in your QT. Maybe he appeared that way to scum, but to me he was coming up with some pretty ridiculous reasons to try to undermine my reasoning, while keeping up a lot of active patter with you, and focusing with some intensity on his disagreement with gkrieg to the point where he was unwilling to look at actual evidence. His ATE-style stuff was a little more townie, but the way you and he engaged made him look that much more scummy in my eyes, especially after he seemed to be doing your work for you in distancing from Raptor. Those are my excuses, anyway!! :-P

I'd care about the modkill if it would have changed the outcome. It wouldn't have.

You having 1-shot was very likely, unfortunately. And in any event, scum just roleblocks you and strongmans vs EFHW, and it's no issue.

I never tried to undermine your wagon reasoning Space. I tried to curb it because I have seen wagons go exactly the way you don't think they're supposed to go. I acknowledged it was likely Robz was scum because of the D1 wagon. I never rejected your silver case as bad, I definitely did absorb it. I just always had bigger fish I wanted to fry. And as I said, Raptor's absence tampers with this stuff a lot if he's scum. You could argue you had just as good a shot with him as with Simon if you wanted POE by wagons.
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He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #995 on: August 27, 2018, 07:25:58 pm »

It's not 100%, because I also need to find scum and my 1 teammate since I don't get to rely on IC's forever. If it's town's job to convince everybody who thinks they're scum that they're town, then shouldn't gkrieg have been making cases for himself against my vote? The fact that he didn't suggests one and only one thing to me: he wasn't bothering because he was almost as equally sure I was scum. The only argument I currently see him making on D3 is a question to Robz asking why he's so sure I'm town. And even if I convince him, that doesn't mean I'm not going to vote him. I went back and forth on who I thought town was between 3 of the 4 unknowns. Guess who I didn't consider.

Here's the thing though. Once EFHW voted for Raptor, and Robz and silverspawn both voted for him, and then gkrieg refused to vote him and you also refused to vote him, Raptor was 100% confirmed scum. Space and EFHW were both confirmed ICs. So there was a confirmed town vote on Raptor, and all non-IC players refused to take the quickhammer on Raptor at LyLo. At this point, you have confirmed scum. It does matter that you have a 95% scum read on gkrieg, because you can shelve that for another day and take the hammer on 100% confirmed scum.

If you had done that, the game would still be going, but you had your gkrieg blinders on so heavy that you didn't see confirmed scum right in front of your face.

To be fair, I agree that until Lylo you tried really hard to convince gkrieg you were town and got nowhere. And that would be really frustrating. That's why it is so important to play rationally and not emotionally at LyLo and constantly be evaluating the changing game state. Anyway, it's really no big deal. I just wanted to clarify what exactly you did (other than break the rules and get mod-killed) that I believe you can probably learn from for the next game.

I did know Raptor was scum after the non-hammers! I even acknowledged he was confirmed scum. What I said was that scum was going to kill EFHW in the night. That leaves me, ss, Robz, and gkrieg at the time. I thought ss was the town of those 3. Space had said they thought it was gkrieg and Robz as the town. Therefore, the game ends D4 when I thought Space would misvote. If I'm right, which I wasn't, letting Raptor get lynched wins the battle. Not the war. Shelving doesn't do anything, I have to make the hard decision eventually. Preferably with IC's around.

It's not 100%, because I also need to find scum and my 1 teammate since I don't get to rely on IC's forever.

Huh. I was trying hard to persuade you all that having two ICs in so few players was a great opportunity to solve it all, meaning you would have had us to rely on to map things out, and then just an algorithm to execute.

What I had asked for was for people to talk more and not vote, because I was trying to get a good case together on gkrieg being town. I was doing that because I was letting other players' doubts lead me to re-examine my position, and I was half-expecting that he wouldn't be able to follow through and show me that he was telling the truth about a town-tell, which would have turned me over to your position.
But I have more information than you because I know I'm not scum. And if it gets to final 3, then do you want me to sheep the dead ICs or try to think for myself. Again, emphasis on try, since as said before, it's tough to change your mind.

But while my vote was bad and premature, you do realize it was literally everybody except Raptor and us who voted Raptor? I'm for a slow day, I wasn't ever asking for a quicklynch on gkrieg.
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He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #996 on: August 27, 2018, 07:27:50 pm »

I'm defending a lot of my actions, some of which like wanting to keep Raptor alive after he was confirmed scum I stand by and feel good about.
So I will say this once and for all: I sucked. Good game and well played scum, I'm pretty sure nobody ever figured out the full team.
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He is (and take this in a positive light Skumpy) eccentric, flamboyant and excessive at times. His posts are ones that cause people to look at him and say "huh?"

EFHW

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #997 on: August 28, 2018, 09:20:04 am »

I don't agree with Skumpy's approach of not lynching people you believe to be scum because other people might suspect you more. You really don't know how they will react to catching scum, you can't control what they believe, and what would it take to convince you they townread you enough to go ahead and lynch the known scum?

I did miss Space's plea for more time, sorry about that. I'm disappointed gkrieg didn't step up and defend himself, show himself to be town. His posts on the last day "confirmed" my suspicions he was scum, which I said. His refusal to vote raptor cinched the deal for me.

Silver did a great job. I scumread him early on, but fell for his act re: Simon. I will be more careful in the future!

We really should have focused more on Robz. He was scum to me once he started the Galz wagon. If we had put more pressure on him, he would have handled it fine, though, and there was no evidence. When he claimed VT, that was very telling because the claim order shouldn't have mattered at all to a VT. When gkrieg said he was surprised no one fakeclaimed, I literally read that as a scumpartner defending Robz.

This the second game recently where a conversation between two people read to me like scumpartners working together to pursue some agenda and it turned out only one of the players was scum. Need to look out for that
in the future as well.
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EFHW

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #998 on: August 28, 2018, 09:21:03 am »

Thanks for the game, LL. Agree with Skumpy that the direction the flavor was heading was disturbing.
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LaLight

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)
« Reply #999 on: August 28, 2018, 09:24:21 am »

Thanks for the game, LL. Agree with Skumpy that the direction the flavor was heading was disturbing.

I am sorry if that disturbed you. I tried to motivate town play better with a help of the flavor, for them to feel they really are responsible for the main character and I was interested how this will turn out.
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