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Author Topic: M117: Emotions Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)  (Read 145002 times)

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Swowl

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #550 on: August 17, 2018, 10:59:00 pm »

I am going to continue to read through this.... but this argument seems a little ridiculous...
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #551 on: August 18, 2018, 03:52:18 am »

What do you feel now?

Vote Count 2.2


Skumpy (2): gkrieg13, Xxraptorslayer96
silverspawn (1): DatSwan
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Skumpy, Simon Jester
Simon Jester (1): silverspawn
EFHW (1): Robz888
Not Voting: (3) Twistedarcher, EFHW, SpaceAnemone

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to Lynch. Day 2 will end Wednesday 22 August at 5 pm.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #552 on: August 18, 2018, 04:05:17 am »

so @DatSwan, I was actually being literate when I said I don't undestand how your post comes to the conclusion that I'm scummy. I don't understand what you are accusing me of having done. I'm particularly interested in hearing what you think I did wasn't pro town.

Being “wrong about the vote count” the “aw shucks comment” the switching with II.... pretty much the stuff i already posted

what are you talking about? I wasn't wrong about any vote count. I saw that there were 2 votes left, but I knew and I was right that we'd get a vote on galz through anyway. What aw shucks comment? And how was the switching bad? It ensured a lynch? ???

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #553 on: August 18, 2018, 07:02:18 am »

Okay, here's an attempt at distilling Swan's big long post at #487 into something more concise.

1. Masons shoot stuff. This was unknown to most players.

2. He posts the vote count as of #396, which was current through till #421 when EFHW switched, and hypothesizes that there is at least one scum on each of the wagons amongst the non-conf!town players. Leaving his name in the pool this time, this gives:
  • At least one scum in {silver, Space, Swan, gkrieg EFHW}
  • At least one scum in {Robz, Skumpy, TA, Simon}
3. He claims that Skumpy was the only present-and-active person capable of hammering Simon. Not sure why that's such a big point, or where Iguana went in his reasoning.

4. He then ignores all his previous reasoning, and points out that silver is super-scummy because he posted intent to switch as we reached the two-minutes-to-deadline mark, and switched with under 60 seconds to spare, and this timing contributes to him being "scummy as hell".

5. A contributing factor to silver's scumminess is that he was Galz's top scumread, which has nothing to do with all the preceding vote analysis either.


Additional notes/opinions from me:

1. I have no idea what Swan means by "IDK its not hammer hammer" -- I can't see any post of silver's matching that.

2. I think it would be weird that scum!silver would stick with his stated scumread till 47 seconds before the deadline if he's really interested in lynching Galz, when super!townie!Iguana's pleas were clearly justification enough for other moves from Simon to Galz only a few minutes earlier.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #554 on: August 18, 2018, 07:18:31 am »

And while I'm dissecting Swan's post:

Pay attention boys and girls, this is where shit gets fun...

Might I suggest that instead of using "boys and girls", you try on some alternatives like "everyone", "folks", "towns and scums", or "assorted netizens"? Such phrases would not only be more attention-grabbing and linguistically fun, but also more accurate for your current audience, too :-)
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #555 on: August 18, 2018, 09:14:13 am »

Why did iguana switch to simon when silver had stated intent to hammer?
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #556 on: August 18, 2018, 11:09:05 am »

Hey -
It is game day today for Raptor and I.
I see some stuff directed at me - i will get to it tomorrow.

Happy weekend!
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #557 on: August 18, 2018, 11:10:21 am »

If you see me log on It’s an error - I’m still VLA today
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #558 on: August 18, 2018, 11:27:34 am »

Do other people not think that skumpy’s EOD post was super scummy?  It makes me think that he and Simon are partners.

Also why don’t we have a mason claim???
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Simon Jester

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #559 on: August 18, 2018, 01:46:34 pm »

Do other people not think that skumpy’s EOD post was super scummy?  It makes me think that he and Simon are partners.

Also why don’t we have a mason claim???

Is it still super-scummy if we assume (correctly) that I'm town? I'm a bit pained with being the only one with accurate information on this issue because the whole EOD is almost useless for me. It was town against town and scum could relax away. I don't give much for the who's online- argument but we primarily need to look at those not being part of the deadline anyway. TA, raptor pr maybe Robz too is where I would go today. Or Space, but nobody seems to care much about my accusation there, but I still think is the best one out there.

Gash, we are in a hard spot it seems. Mason, please help out. I think it's the best way if you could take the lead here, maybe.   
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gkrieg13

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #560 on: August 18, 2018, 02:48:04 pm »

The gosh we are in a hard spot it seems from Simon is super scummy. Does not seem genuine.
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Robz888

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #561 on: August 18, 2018, 02:54:47 pm »

The gosh we are in a hard spot it seems from Simon is super scummy. Does not seem genuine.

I agree. Vote: Simon
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #562 on: August 18, 2018, 02:55:30 pm »

If I'm accruing scum points and all other cases are bad, why am I not getting your vote?

I didn't say you were the only one accruing points. I'm mulling some stuff over and seeing what cases stick in my head right now. Well, in general. Right now it's bed time.

Sure, fine. I was just trying to generate conversation.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #563 on: August 19, 2018, 04:06:34 am »

The gosh we are in a hard spot it seems from Simon is super scummy. Does not seem genuine.

I agree. Vote: Simon

Disappointed.

I'm genuinely frustrated. I got scumread yesterday based on basically nothing. I'm pseudo-new with a fresh account and the early conversation circeled around that and it got stuck together with the scumslip- accusation with Skumpy and me and since then I've been the top scum read for most people, the fact that the EOD killed off Galz instead of me didn't really help my case. I can't really lead town in any direction, I assume people would just counter-vote me if I tried to craft any type of plan.

But fine, kill me off. That mislynch will be rough as hell, but I guess you will have a better chance to see clearly when I'm gone.

In fact. Back to basics for me too. vote for the top scumread and it's still: vote: SpaceA
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Skumpy

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #564 on: August 19, 2018, 05:12:43 am »

How would it be checkable?
The name shows on the homepage for 15 minutes. And if you miss that, you click the profile. Since people get mad me at when I talk about it, please stop asking me questions about it so that I don't have to talk about it.

If you see me log on It’s an error - I’m still VLA today
OK, last time, I swear: your profile's 'Last Active' corroborates your story, you do in fact have an air-tight alibi for Saturday, Swan. Except that it's always the person with the best alibi who does the murder.

Do other people not think that skumpy’s EOD post was super scummy?  It makes me think that he and Simon are partners.

Also why don’t we have a mason claim???
So how do you feel then that Simon also agrees the mason should claim?


Simon: If you're playing me, I am going to be so disappointed in you and even more disappointed in myself. You're not brand new, so I have to be careful about that and I do have to remind myself that you have some knowledge of how to talk as scum. If you are scum, I give my full apologies to town and full kudos to scum for a game well played where you could either bus without suspicion or let literally the entire town vote him without needing to step in to interfere. If I mess up, then foof, I am disappointed to have let my moronic intellect lead you astray.

Having said that: I haven't yet been wrong on a 'white knight' read, as ss likes to say and as I will now be using that term from now on, so by the powers invested in me by LaLight and my positive emotion flavor (I consider calm quite positive, btw), I hereby dub thee Sir Jester. You people are veterans at this game. You have combined to play dozens upon dozens of games and to spend centuries worth of reading and posting; why are you cherrypicking statements (on D2 at that) like:

The gosh we are in a hard spot it seems from Simon is super scummy. Does not seem genuine.

I agree. Vote: Simon

when he probably KNOWS that this kind of stuff is so typical of new scum, and so he wouldn't post it (and so he would, and so WIFOM, etc, but it's not a scummy thing to say). This Skumpy-Simon theory was farfetched to begin with, and it's gotten worse if anything. I don't go out my way and do everything I can to save partners. That would be very obvious of me, wouldn't it? I say: if they've messed up, let 'em die! I don't want to lose this game, and I'm doing everything in my power to prevent that from happening. Am I necessarily right? No, maybe not even about Simon. But you people need to do more to help than ignore every point we try to make and instead FOS the 2 most active people in this game. Iguana, if you can read this from the dead, I am gravely disappointed in you because you played too damn well D1 and I really want my lizard here right now (not a breadcrumb).

If either and/or both of you are scum @gkrieg/Robz, it's shameful that we have delivered ourselves into your hands so easily without you having to lift a finger when no votes are coming your way. And if you are town, you should go have a nap or eat some almonds or something, and come back with a fresh mindset and solve this mystery.
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Simon Jester

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #565 on: August 19, 2018, 05:38:36 am »

Simon: If you're playing me, I am going to be so disappointed in you and even more disappointed in myself.

The same to you Skump. I don't know man. This whiteknighting, aka buddying, is pleasent but makes me nevertheless extremely suspicious. Halfway through I thought you were going to come out as Mason and that would be so so good, noew I just don't know... thanks.. I guess? But I'm not sure that anyone else could be convinced by this.,

Agree though that gkrieg/Robz is a very likely scumteam seeing how these days have been played out. Anyone else up for getting Robz today?
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #566 on: August 19, 2018, 05:43:32 am »

While we're on the subject of:

The gosh we are in a hard spot it seems from Simon is super scummy. Does not seem genuine.

I agree. Vote: Simon

Disappointed.

I'm genuinely frustrated. I got scumread yesterday based on basically nothing. I'm pseudo-new with a fresh account and the early conversation circeled around that and it got stuck together with the scumslip- accusation with Skumpy and me and since then I've been the top scum read for most people, the fact that the EOD killed off Galz instead of me didn't really help my case. I can't really lead town in any direction, I assume people would just counter-vote me if I tried to craft any type of plan.

But fine, kill me off. That mislynch will be rough as hell, but I guess you will have a better chance to see clearly when I'm gone.


In fact. Back to basics for me too. vote for the top scumread and it's still: vote: SpaceA

which by the way is exactly how I'm feeling right now, especially the bold, and even the desire to keep wagon hopping even though I know it just raises suspicion.


Let's revisit the Raptor case. People seem to be in the mindset of 'what a crappy case based on 'Who's Online', that can't be right'.

If Raptor was town, he could make that very clear and obvious if he wanted to. I've seen him do it before, he is more than capable of doing it again. One possibility is that he is scum and finds it difficult to make a fake case. A second, and one that I know is scummy of me to say (self-conscious, oooh!), but I have to put it out there as I refrained from saying it D1, is that his one special performance was a direct result of him being a PR, and a feeling of responsibility to contribute. As town, I don't actively try to figure out who the PR's are. But it's tough of me to not notice things like Raptor's play. Given that scum already has a 30% chance of knocking out either the Mason or the Roleblocker without any other information AND that they might lynch a town today AND that they've probably already figured out who both are, there is some safety in targeting somebody who is less likely to be a PR. Iguana voted for Raptor as well D1, which further suggests to me he's not the mason. In addition, were he to flip scum, that would make me very reluctant to want to vote EFHW for the rest of the game because of him throwing his vote there before he went VLA, and so would all but clear one of the more unreadable, controversial players this game.

His post out of his 15 thus far, including the /in, involving the most work and scumreading was this:

Vote: skumpy because of the timing of his votes as well as over all tone in the game (nothing new right?)

Sorry Simon. Me and Iguana tried. EFHW, you want to do it so I don't get my hands dirty?
why wouldn't you just do it yourself?

Holy crap, what just happened? I had the a vote simon ready too...
convenient that with less then a minute you were ready to switch off the wagon.
 
Responding to Swan's stuff:

'XXR wasn't moving' - I still want to know why that's the case when he did check in that day. That's still a very important point.

I think that you are miss remembering me there. I was VLA for through N1.

which is just lazy in addition to being wrong. Raptor, if you are town, I don't want to sound like a jerk with this, but I probably will, and I apologize: I don't trust you to make good decisions for the remainder of the game, and I see you as more of a liability than an asset, if that is the absolute best of your scumreading efforts. You can be very, very good at this game as town, both in terms of accuracy and in gaining towncred for yourself. But you're not this game, and I don't know why. If I had to guess, it's that we are indeed once again pitted against each other which disappoints me greatly.


Expected value aside, why vote Raptor? Because he has done nothing townie this game. The only case for him was Swan saying D1 "it's a lazy vote on Raptor". True enough at the time, and I agreed. But we're halfway into D2. He's had 48 hours, not counting Saturday, to go back and reflect and put together a case. A case on me based on a few scummy posts in response to not voting a wagon that may or may not be town (why not vote Simon if that's what you believe?) is what resulted. I feel like Awaclus, but I now kinda get it when he says: Give me a good reason I should not vote Raptor right now, and @everyone, tell me what you have going for him?

PPE
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #567 on: August 19, 2018, 05:49:54 am »

Simon: If you're playing me, I am going to be so disappointed in you and even more disappointed in myself.
Agree though that gkrieg/Robz is a very likely scumteam seeing how these days have been played out. Anyone else up for getting Robz today?

I did not agree with that actually, just a possibility that would be very unfortunate. The sad truth is that I'm very much in the dark. I have suspects that I've listed before (namely, Raptor, Swan, and TA), but could easily see scum in basically everybody else...except you. No, I'm not a fan of voting Robz today, I think there are better options. If you believe there was scum on the opposite wagon, which is far from a certainty if Raptor is one of the team, I'd rather go for TA.

My Raptor case could be way wrong, btw. But I'm putting this on you now, Raptor: prove to me that you want to win and that you are capable of putting together a solid argument against someone from what they've done over the course of 10 IRL days, and not based on a few posts at the end of D1 during a rushed lynch. If it's on me, so be it. But make a good case.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #568 on: August 19, 2018, 06:22:20 am »

I'm open to a raptor vote. But do you agree that you were wrong on the time thing? He was online after the lynch happened, so there is no case on him based on not being there at the deadline ... right? Just trying to understand.

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #569 on: August 19, 2018, 06:28:40 am »

I'm open to a raptor vote. But do you agree that you were wrong on the time thing? He was online after the lynch happened, so there is no case on him based on not being there at the deadline ... right? Just trying to understand.

I was not wrong, I just wrote Tuesday when I meant to write Monday. And mistaken, wrong, lying, whatever.... throw that out if you want, if it's clouding your (general 'your') judgment.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #570 on: August 19, 2018, 07:57:11 am »

Wait, so you are in fact claiming that he was online on monday when he claims he was not?

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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #571 on: August 19, 2018, 10:21:55 am »

Wait, so you are in fact claiming that he was online on monday when he claims he was not?

I believe that Skumpy is still Maintaining that Raptor was here, based on "Who's Online" information. Skumpy had claimed that his info is "very easily checkable by everyone else", which is true for other people who're active around the same time, but there's no login history we can go back and check now. So this could be faked, but only to the extent that Skumpy is confident no other player who was online at the same time has recorded contradictory information with enough confidence to call him out on it.

He did, however, say earlier that Swan had an airtight alibi due to the login time listings. That confused me on first reading, because it hadn't registered for me that he was making observations about two different players, so read it incorrectly as him backing down on the original case at first.

I think my approach for now is going to be to believe that Skumpy saw exactly what he says he saw, to believe that Raptor was just as VLA as he says he was, and to unify these beliefs based on the existence of both false positives and false negatives exist in the system. I would like it if this kind of evidence could be ignored/strongly downweighted in favour of actual posts and votes from the players in question.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #572 on: August 19, 2018, 10:26:04 am »

vote: Space, but raptor is also sounding good. I agree Robz is being scummy. Not sure about gkrieg. If the mason would claim, I think that could greatly help our scumhunting today.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #573 on: August 19, 2018, 10:26:56 am »

That vote was not a response to their most recent post.
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Re: M117: Emotions Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #574 on: August 19, 2018, 10:29:49 am »

I didn't say you were the only one accruing points. I'm mulling some stuff over and seeing what cases stick in my head right now. Well, in general. Right now it's bed time.

Sure, fine. I was just trying to generate conversation.
[/quote]

You used my wasn't-even-a-real-case "case" to vote EFHW, and now you're jumping onto Simon based on a comment from gkrieg. Note that gkrieg himself is voting skumpy at the moment, and again, his comment was not a real case. So if you'd like to generate some conversation, let's have a conversation, with reads and opinions and things, so you can interact in a way that is more than superficial vote-throwing :-)

My problem with this game right now is that you, gkrieg, TA and Raptor are all super-low contributors, so there could be any number (up to three) of scum hiding in there. How would you recommend that I balance wanting to hunt for scums in the places I can actually hunt (people who're interacting, posting, making their opinions known) with wanting to rid town of liabilities in the much less vocal half?

Post Count D1
81 - iguanaiguana
47 - silverspawn
44 - EFHW
42 - Skumpy
39 - Simon Jester
32 - Galzria
30 - DatSwan
25 - gkrieg13
24 - SpaceAnemone
23 - Twistedarcher
20 - Robz888
9 - Xxraptorslayer96

Post Count D2 so far
24 - Skumpy
19 - EFHW
19 - SpaceAnemone
16 - silverspawn
8 - gkrieg13
7 - DatSwan
7 - Robz888
6 - Simon Jester
5 - Xxraptorslayer96
1 - Twistedarcher


PPE: I've updated the vote count based on EFHW's new pair of posts, but this post was in the works in parallel with my other post above, and is not taking the content of her posts into consideration.
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Congratulations! Your SpaceAnemone evolved into UniverseAnemone!
Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
Scum games: M89(D), M108(L), NM8(W&MVP), NM10(L)   Mod: NM9, RMM38, RMM42.   Pronouns: they/them
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