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Author Topic: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds  (Read 5251 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2018, 08:44:42 pm »
+2

Ahh I see what you mean with Firth guild. If that’s the case I could just add in each player (including you) reveal their hand.

But that isn’t a problem with me and my friends we don’t cheat and we certainly don’t lie unless the game tells us we can like in the games coup and sheriff of Nottingham. Games are just to have fun. It’s just a pass time. Or a hobby for me trying to create cards. We shouldn’t cheat anyways.

If someone is dishonest about how many Firth guilds they have in their hand, that’s their problem. They wouldn’t do that in a real tournament, lest they get kicked out.

But here the issue isn’t about whether or not you can trust people to cheat. This issue is that the rules of Dominion allow you to reveal the same card from your hand multiple times. It’s not cheating to do so; it is allowed by the rules.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2018, 12:30:16 am »
+1

theres so many rules we can’t memorize them all. So I’m just going to ignore this one. None of my friends are going to notice it anyway. When making cards all we can do is do our best and tweak them if too strong or too weak. But a rule I’m not aware or even understand is not my concern. If someone I don’t know has a problem with it then they can change it themselves for their own personal use. And if someone I know notices it (which I doubt) then I’ll address it then. If try to please everyone the card will never see the light of day. Unless you have all the amenities at your disposal like Donald does, our cards will never be perfect. It’s futile. And even he has made cards that weren’t that great. Feast  subject A. Dominion is just a game after all. I just thought I’d show you guys my card ideas and get a little feedback and maybe some minor tweaks. But there’s no point to fix everything in the card.

And if it really is a rule why can’t I do it with moat online huh? I thought it would be fun to try but it wouldn’t let me.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 01:01:24 am by ClouduHieh »
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dz

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2018, 01:21:34 am »
+1


And if it really is a rule why can’t I do it with moat online huh? I thought it would be fun to try but it wouldn’t let me.

That's just because the client knows that revealing an infinite amount of Moats is stupid and causes nothing extra to happen, so it just prevents you from doing it at all. If you WERE allowed to reveal infinite Moats online, then online would just be filled with trolls who would do that.
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Asper

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2018, 04:14:37 am »
+3

Kudos to GendoIkari for taking the time to explain everything again and again. I will just state that I agree to everything he said in this thread.
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Fragasnap

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2018, 08:44:38 pm »
+2

GendoIkari is right.

Intrigue rules second edition, page 4 (emphasis added)
Quote
Diplomat: When playing this, you get +2 Cards, then count your cards in hand, and if you have 5 cards or fewer, you get +2 Actions. So, for example if you play this from a hand of 5 cards, you will put it into play, going down to 4 cards, then draw 2 cards, going up to 6 cards, and that is more than 5 cards so you would not get the +2 Actions.
Diplomat can also be used when another player plays an Attack card, if you have at least 5 cards in hand. Before the Attack card does anything, you can reveal a Diplomat from your hand; if you do, you draw 2 cards, then discard 3 cards (which can include the Diplomat). If you still have at least 5 cards in hand after doing that (such as due to Council Rooms), you can reveal Diplomat again and do it again. You reveal Reactions one at a time; you cannot reveal two Diplomats simultaneously. You can reveal a Moat from your hand (to be unaffected by an Attack) either before or after revealing and resolving a Diplomat (even if the Moat was not in your hand until after resolving Diplomat).
So long as the condition that triggers a Reaction remains true, you may reveal a single Reaction an infinite number of times in response to its trigger.
  • Moat, Secret Chamber, and Trader avoid the problem by having no effect when revealed multiple times.
  • Diplomat avoids the problem by reducing your hand-size by 1 each time it is used, eventually disabling its trigger.
  • Watchtower avoids the problem by the lose-track rule.
  • EDIT: Tunnel avoids the problem by not being revealed from your hand.
  • Horse Traders, Fool's Gold, Beggar, Market Square, Caravan Guard, and Faithful Hound are all set aside, trashed, or discarded by their Reactions, thereby making it impossible to use their Reaction multiple times.
You can fix Firth Guild's Reaction either by making it only give +Coffers until you have a fixed number of tokens on your Coffers mat, or by removing Firth Guild from your hand when you use it (discard, top deck, trash, set aside, etc.).

theres so many rules we can’t memorize them all. So I’m just going to ignore this one. None of my friends are going to notice it anyway. When making cards all we can do is do our best and tweak them if too strong or too weak. But a rule I’m not aware or even understand is not my concern. If someone I don’t know has a problem with it then they can change it themselves for their own personal use.
It is not unreasonable to expect each player of Dominion to know the rules of Dominion. It is a fairly simple game. Card tracking and Reactions are the only mildly complex effects. We are not taking an adversarial stance in this regard. We are simply enforcing the rules as written.
Changing the card for personal use will necessarily create a significantly different effect of the card. If you set it aside, it will no longer be in your hand for the purpose of resolving an Attack, such as other Firth Guilds.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 12:06:12 am by Fragasnap »
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GendoIkari

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2018, 10:53:43 pm »
+3

  • Watchtower and Tunnel avoid the problem by the lose-track rule (of the card you gained for the former, itself for the latter).

For accuracy; Tunnel avoids the problem by not being revealed from your hand. As clarified by Donald in the previously-linked thread, the multiple-reveal thing only applies when a card is revealed from your hand.
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greybirdofprey

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2018, 04:38:39 pm »
+1

  • ... Secret Chamber ... avoid the problem by having no effect when revealed multiple times.

You mean without something else happening in between?
You could reveal Secret Chamber to get a Caravan Guard in your hand that previously wasn't, then play that Caravan Guard, then reveal the same Secret Chamber again to see a card that you couldn't see on the first reveal.
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Asper

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2018, 02:22:44 am »
0

  • ... Secret Chamber ... avoid the problem by having no effect when revealed multiple times.

You mean without something else happening in between?
You could reveal Secret Chamber to get a Caravan Guard in your hand that previously wasn't, then play that Caravan Guard, then reveal the same Secret Chamber again to see a card that you couldn't see on the first reveal.

Yes, and that again is limited by the number of Caravan Guards in your deck. It doesn't stack indefinitely.

I mean, you don't have to like the rules, but whether you like them or not has no effect on what the rules are.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2018, 03:46:12 pm »
0

Maybe I’ll just change it this then. You may one reveal this for just one attack for each player.

Firth guild

   2$
Each other player reveals their hand
If they have an attack, then they discard
One attack card. If they don’t have an
Attack they gain A copper to your hand.
——————————————
When another player plays an attack.
You may reveal this, if it’s the first time
revealed this turn take a coin token.
$3 Action-Attack-Reaction

Now it doesn’t matter if you buy attack cards you still get penalized regardless. So the question is then do want 10 or 20 coppers in your deck at the end of game or do want to discard lots of attack cards and still maybe play a few here and there.

Unless your a copper strategist like myself getting a bunch coppers would be the last thing you want. And of course would want to buy because it would mess up all the other players strategies.

And that’s what attacks are sopose to do after all. And at least they get to put the copper in their hand. So now everyone will have a Firth guild and have tons of extra coppers in their hand. And a few coin tokens to boot. Any copper strategist will love getting attacked by this card. Everybody else will see this almost as bad as mountebank.

And I fixed it so you can’t reveal it multiple times per player just once per player. Even if you have more than one still just once.

Okay I fixed it should be the official way of reading it now.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 12:39:28 am by ClouduHieh »
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Asper

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2018, 04:00:59 pm »
+1

A wording that would fit official cards is:

When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this from your hand. If it is the first time you revealed a XYZ this way this turn, take a Coin Token.

OR

When another player plays an attack, you may reveal this from your hand, to take a Coin Token if you did not do so this turn, yet.

OR

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand to take Coin Tokens until you have {one per player/some fixed number}.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 06:52:40 pm by Asper »
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Holunder9

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2018, 03:13:51 pm »
0

Just like Council Room is a Laboratory for all other players Firth Guild makes all Attack cards into a Baker for you.
Seems pretty decent so instead of using a "reveal your hand" wording you could get away with a "set aside" wording à la Horse Trader. Not that it is totally horrible if Firth Guild would be a strong counter to playing 5 Cultists or Minions in a turn, these are strong cards. But I'd nonetheless go easy with the Coin tokens and first try the one time restriction. I also think that setting aside plays quicker than revealing your hand.

King's Wood is plain bad, it will just be a run on the Plazas.

Bookbinding is, as has already been pointed out, far too good.

I don't care much about the hot potatoe aka Angry Bee Swarm but the sifting of Beekeeping is interesting. It is probably too good for $3 though.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2018, 05:52:54 pm »
0

Yeah I might change beekeeping to a 4$. The angry bee swarm is mostly just to make it more interactive. Now if plaza was the only card then yeah everyone would be buying plaza, but they already do that just for the +2 Actions. So it doesn’t change anything when there’s only one pile of +2 actions it’s usually the first pile gone anyway especially in a 4 player game. And there’s a good chance there will be a good chance there will be another card that gives out coin tokens anyways. I wanted to make it similar to lost in the woods. And lost in the woods is kinda hot potatoe ish as well.
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Holunder9

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Re: A few new card ideas for cornucopia and guilds
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2018, 03:20:17 am »
0

Implementing a hot potatoe mechanism via a State is a cool idea. But I'd never put the State switching on a non-terminal.
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