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Author Topic: Royal Seal fix  (Read 767 times)

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popsofctown

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Royal Seal fix
« on: July 11, 2018, 11:15:24 pm »
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Keeping this out of general.

Eager Seal
4$ Treasure
Worth 2$
+1 Buy
While this is in play, when you gain a card that more than 4$, trash Eager Seal next clean up.
While this is in play, when you gain a card, put it onto your deck.
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Holunder9

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 07:19:43 am »
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I don't know, seems too conditional to me. Brilliant in a Kingdom with cheap engine components; OK when you hit 4, want a Silver and later want it out of your deck anyway; otherwise bad.

Royal Seal as a Tracker/Pouch mix is kind of already done in the official game so I'd steer away from giving Royal Seal an extra Buy.
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crj

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 12:22:42 pm »
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On a practical note, it needs to be "trash this" not "trash Eager Seal" or you cause all sorts of ambiguities and corner cases. I'm also unsure why "next clean-up" is preferable to doing it immediately.

I'm also not sure why you've lost the optional nature of Royal Seal.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 03:20:00 pm »
+1

I'm also unsure why "next clean-up" is preferable to doing it immediately.


If you trashed it immediately, it wouldn't give you any top-decking, because it wouldn't be in play when you bought any cards.

The solution would be to give it the Travelling Fair wording of "when you gain a card this turn", rather than "while this is in play". Then you can have it be trashed immediately.
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popsofctown

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2018, 09:30:59 pm »
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I'm also unsure why "next clean-up" is preferable to doing it immediately.


If you trashed it immediately, it wouldn't give you any top-decking, because it wouldn't be in play when you bought any cards.

The solution would be to give it the Travelling Fair wording of "when you gain a card this turn", rather than "while this is in play". Then you can have it be trashed immediately.
Sure, that would work better.

I made it non optional so that it's not too good in Gardens games.  Bad call?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2018, 02:28:53 pm »
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Just giving Royal Seal a +buy would make it so much better.

There's also an interesting design space for a non-terminal action that lets you top deck cards you gain after playing it.

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LastFootnote

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 12:01:25 pm »
+1

Just giving Royal Seal a +buy would make it so much better.

Agreed. It's a shame that Prosperity already has too much +Buy in it. Though you could probably take +1 Buy off of Grand Market. And possibly Goons. Though if you really wanted to fix Goons, you'd probably first remove the attack.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 10:06:18 am »
+1

Just giving Royal Seal a +buy would make it so much better.

Agreed. It's a shame that Prosperity already has too much +Buy in it. Though you could probably take +1 Buy off of Grand Market. And possibly Goons. Though if you really wanted to fix Goons, you'd probably first remove the attack.

Well, too much +Buy is thematic! The bigger problem is why the set needs Royal Seal at all when it already has Watchtower...
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crj

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 10:27:32 am »
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To state the obvious, Dominion would be less fun if every card in every kingdom was the best of its kind. It is interesting to have weaker and more expensive top-decking sometimes, so people have to think harder about how much they really want it.

(The problem for Royal Seal is that, in the case of top-decking, the answer is "not much".)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 12:18:41 pm »
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Just giving Royal Seal a +buy would make it so much better.

Agreed. It's a shame that Prosperity already has too much +Buy in it. Though you could probably take +1 Buy off of Grand Market. And possibly Goons. Though if you really wanted to fix Goons, you'd probably first remove the attack.

Well, too much +Buy is thematic! The bigger problem is why the set needs Royal Seal at all when it already has Watchtower...

Yeah, I agree that it's thematic, and I don't think it's a problem for Prosperity to have five +Buy cards. I also think Counting House needs +1 Buy too, though, perhaps even more than Royal Seal. And if both Royal Seal and Counting House got +1 Buy, Prosperity would have way too much +Buy.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 01:05:55 pm »
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To state the obvious, Dominion would be less fun if every card in every kingdom was the best of its kind. It is interesting to have weaker and more expensive top-decking sometimes, so people have to think harder about how much they really want it.

(The problem for Royal Seal is that, in the case of top-decking, the answer is "not much".)

Royal Seal isn't really doing anything interesting that Armory or Tracker isn't doing. +buy would give it a unique niche of being the ultimate card combo setup card. It fits the name; Royal Seal would work very well with Throne Room and King's Court. Powerful cards are fine if they are powerful for enabling other kingdom cards - the reason Chapel isn't hated the same way as Rebuild.
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Kirian

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2018, 02:18:23 pm »
+1

I feel like this is a reasonable place to say "What's wrong with Royal Seal, they can't all be the best $5 ever."
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 09:32:03 am »
+1

I feel like this is a reasonable place to say "What's wrong with Royal Seal, they can't all be the best $5 ever."

How would you feel if the next dominion expansion entirely consisted of nerfed versions of existing cards that you ignore in most games? You just wasted your money. Card quality matters.

In addition to being bad, it's boring.
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Kirian

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2018, 12:06:59 am »
+1

I feel like this is a reasonable place to say "What's wrong with Royal Seal, they can't all be the best $5 ever."

How would you feel if the next dominion expansion entirely consisted of nerfed versions of existing cards that you ignore in most games? You just wasted your money. Card quality matters.

In addition to being bad, it's boring.

Royal Seal isn't a nerfed version of anything.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2018, 06:21:26 pm »
+2

I feel like this is a reasonable place to say "What's wrong with Royal Seal, they can't all be the best $5 ever."

How would you feel if the next dominion expansion entirely consisted of nerfed versions of existing cards that you ignore in most games? You just wasted your money. Card quality matters.

In addition to being bad, it's boring.

Royal Seal isn't a nerfed version of anything.

I don't think he was actually saying that. I think it was just an example of how "they can't all be the best ever" isn't necessarily an excuse for weak cards that rarely make any difference.
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Holger

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Re: Royal Seal fix
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2018, 05:53:29 pm »
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Just giving Royal Seal a +buy would make it so much better.

Agreed. It's a shame that Prosperity already has too much +Buy in it. Though you could probably take +1 Buy off of Grand Market. And possibly Goons. Though if you really wanted to fix Goons, you'd probably first remove the attack.

Have you (or someone else) tried Goons without the Attack? I've considered doing that after having had the first real-life rage-quit due to constantly being on the receiving end of Goons. Probably it'd still be strong enough, but maybe a bit too similar to Woodcutter? It might be enough to reduce the attack part to "discard down to four" to make Goons more enjoyable...
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