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Author Topic: Self-Pin?  (Read 726 times)

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silvern

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Self-Pin?
« on: July 05, 2018, 11:53:15 am »
+1

I think I already know the answer to this one, but it's funny to me, so....

Let's suppose you buy donate on turn one, trashing everything. At this point, wouldn't it be literally impossible for you to do anything for the rest of the game? You couldn't pay off any debt, or buy any coppers, or...anything

(And what would the remainder of your turns look like in an online solo game? I don't think there'd be any boxes to click on at any point in the infinite remainder of your turns.)
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Mic Qsenoch

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 12:03:23 pm »
+8

When I did it solitaire, it auto passed to Turn 70 and then got stuck in some way. Refreshes just give me "Waiting for Mic Qsenoch" with no boxes to click.
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Donald X.

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2018, 01:50:14 pm »
+2

Let's suppose you buy donate on turn one, trashing everything. At this point, wouldn't it be literally impossible for you to do anything for the rest of the game? You couldn't pay off any debt, or buy any coppers, or...anything
Of course your opponent can sometimes let you back into the game, e.g. with Ambassador.
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crj

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2018, 03:43:52 pm »
+3

Ooh! You could troll them pretty badly by using Messenger to gain you both a whole lot of useful engine cards, none of which gave any gain or money. (-8<
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ipofanes

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2018, 02:52:30 am »
0

Some gainers could even be distributed, like Exorcist or Rats.
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infangthief

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2018, 03:49:42 am »
+1

How about buying some Curses first, then donate everything except the Curses... nice to still have some cards to draw during clean-up each turn, and you can use those Curses to prevent your opponent Mountebank-ing you any nasty Coppers.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2018, 01:53:06 pm »
0

When I did it solitaire, it auto passed to Turn 70 and then got stuck in some way. Refreshes just give me "Waiting for Mic Qsenoch" with no boxes to click.

I once set up a self-pin with a Princed Tactician and debt (I think to prove you could play a Tactician every turn with Prince). The client would freeze up after about 12 turns in much the same way you are describing.
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ackmondual

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 10:15:28 pm »
0

How about buying some Curses first, then donate everything except the Curses... nice to still have some cards to draw during clean-up each turn, and you can use those Curses to prevent your opponent Mountebank-ing you any nasty Coppers.

The Coppers will let you pay off the Debt ;)

Neat thing is if Quest is available, you can get Gold via that.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 11:31:30 pm »
0

It's viable if you Donate everything except Possession.
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infangthief

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 03:19:10 am »
0

It's viable if you Donate everything except Possession.
Unless your opponent did the same :)
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crj

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2018, 10:15:27 am »
+1

Alarmingly, I'm not certain that Donating down to just Possession yourself and forcing a draw isn't the best counter to your opponent Donating down to just Possession...
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Chris is me

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2018, 01:26:52 pm »
0

Alarmingly, I'm not certain that Donating down to just Possession yourself and forcing a draw isn't the best counter to your opponent Donating down to just Possession...

Itís the only thing you can do. Any Donate / Possession game is doomed to end this way.
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silvern

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 02:17:52 pm »
+1

One funny thing is, donate/nothing also ends up as a draw with donate/possession. So that could actually be an effective counter to someone going down that route, since you can pull the nuclear option at any time.

So in a donate/possession game.....really, one reasonable thing that happens is that nobody goes for possession at all.
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crj

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 05:19:39 pm »
0

A rational, if unsporting, player that was losing would go for Possession. )-8

Is this the first example of a pairing that utterly breaks Dominion? I guess one had to happen sooner or later, and it's impressive it was later rather than sooner.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 05:24:46 pm »
0

A rational, if unsporting, player that was losing would go for Possession. )-8

If you're winning without Possession, then it seems unlikely that your opponent will be able to switch to a Possession strategy in enough time to stage a comeback so strong that you feel you have to then Donate to stop from losing.

And even if you do need to wreck your deck to deal with this; you can donate everything except your VP and a few Coppers. This way you can pay off your debt and slowly drain out piles to end the game with the lead.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 05:25:57 pm by GendoIkari »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 06:08:31 pm »
+1

A rational, if unsporting, player that was losing would go for Possession. )-8

Is this the first example of a pairing that utterly breaks Dominion? I guess one had to happen sooner or later, and it's impressive it was later rather than sooner.

Donate/Market Square comes close to breaking it, or at least reducing it to a degenerate state. There are probably other Donate combos that are similar.

But really, Possession on its own already broke the game. Hence the need for errata.
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Chris is me

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2018, 06:34:22 pm »
0

One funny thing is, donate/nothing also ends up as a draw with donate/possession. So that could actually be an effective counter to someone going down that route, since you can pull the nuclear option at any time.

So in a donate/possession game.....really, one reasonable thing that happens is that nobody goes for possession at all.

I donít think you considered the case where, if you donate first, they can just keep their money, not go into debt, and win normally by default.
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crj

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Re: Self-Pin?
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 07:49:20 pm »
0

That only works if they manage to build a substantial lead before you gain Possession, and their deck isn't especially synergistic with being Possessed (no Remodel Gold to Province shenanigans or similar). Otherwise, you can just play Possession every turn and steal their strategy.
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