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[iguanaiguana]

Welcome to RMM49: Samurai Jack Mafia!

This game will be a closed, invented setup for 12 players. Setup specific information in the next post.

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags: e

Playerlist:

1. Faust
2. Pingpongsam
3. Hydrad
4. DatSwan
5. McMcsalot
6. IDontPlayThisGame
7. Lalight
8. EFHW
9. Gkrieg13
10. Galzria
11. Haddock
12. Robz888

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: Unvote: Playername. A simple Unvote may not be caught by the mod due to the mod's method of counting votes.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. The first time that a day ends without reaching a majority lynch, the player with the most votes will be lynched. After this happens once, if a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights

[iguanaiguana]

The game will have two alignments, good and evil. The game will include items. Additionally, the game may feature one or more opportunities for alignment change to occur.

Items:

Each night phase will have two rounds that occur simultaneously.

During round one, players may take any role action described in their role description and use any number of items they possess that their role description indicates that they are able to use.

During round two, players may attempt to give away any items that they have. Players may give away an item that they have already used during round one. Attempts to give items to other players will be treated like any other role action.

Alignment change:

If the potential for alignment change exists in the game, it will always involve a single possible switch per player either from good to evil or from evil to good. A change in alignment may have other consequences unknown to the player who causes the alignment change. Players will not necessarily know whether they are able to change alignment at the beginning of the game. Care has been taken with all possible instances of alignment change to keep the game balanced for both factions.

[faust]

/in

[faust]

Alignment changes though. I've had some of my best and worst mafia experiences with them. Let's hope for the former.

[pingpongsam]

/in

Faust, I’m cooking up some BM ideas but I wanted to know if you tend to play BM games. Some of the ideas have you in mind specifically, lol (in a good way, not a sick torture way).

[2.71828.....]

/tag

[faust]

/in

Faust, I’m cooking up some BM ideas but I wanted to know if you tend to play BM games. Some of the ideas have you in mind specifically, lol (in a good way, not a sick torture way).

I don't tend to do BM, though that is mainly because BM games don't usually work out - people don't feel the need to participate and the game just kind of stops completely a week or two in.

[faust]

Where is everyone?

[pingpongsam]

Looks like it is just a 2 man showdown between faust and pps. I draw scum 1-shot bulletproof and 1-shot lynchproof while you draw town 1-shot dayvig, 1-shot lynchproof, and 1-shot bullet proof but we are ignorant of each other's role powers. First one to cast a vote on Day 2 wins.

[iguanaiguana]

Yeah if people are avoiding because of alignment change, let me know.

[gkrieg13]

Looks like it is just a 2 man showdown between faust and pps. I draw scum 1-shot bulletproof and 1-shot lynchproof while you draw town 1-shot dayvig, 1-shot lynchproof, and 1-shot bullet proof but we are ignorant of each other's role powers. First one to cast a vote on Day 2 wins.

On days with even numbers left alive, it is number-alive / 2 + 1, so it would take 2 to lynch.

[Hydrad]

/in

[Hydrad]

also I'm totally fine with alignment swapping. it means I can play terribly and be basically losing and have an out still

[Swowl]

love it.

/in

[mcmcsalot]

/in

[IDontPlayThisGame]

/in

[LaLight]

/in i think

[EFHW]

/in

[gkrieg13]

/in

[Galzria]

Ambj, /in

[Haddock]

/in

[Robz888]

/in

[iguanaiguana]

Nice! We will get started within 24 hours, when I get a chance to get to a PC.

[pingpongsam]

This will coincide nicely with my vacation next week.

[iguanaiguana]

QTs are going out now. Night 0 begins when I receive all the confirms. Thread locked except for tags.

[iguanaiguana]

Confirms are in. D1 starts tomorrow at ~10AM forum time.

[iguanaiguana]

Day 1 Starts now!

Vote count 1.0

not voting (12):  Faust, Pingpongsam, Hydrad, DatSwan, McMcsalot,  IDontPlayThisGame, Lalight, EFHW, Gkrieg13, Galzria, Haddock, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am


Thread unlocked!

[faust]

Move this topic? And the title could reflect the game start.

Also there is probably a nonzero amount of discussion to be had about items.

[gkrieg13]

Move this topic? And the title could reflect the game start.

Also there is probably a nonzero amount of discussion to be had about items.

Wow, just jump right in there why don’t you. vote: faust

[mcmcsalot]

Move this topic? And the title could reflect the game start.

Also there is probably a nonzero amount of discussion to be had about items.

God I'm really sick of this.

Either

A) you have an item that indicates there is a nonzero amount of discussion to be had and as such you should have just came forward/requested that information.

or

B) you are speculating that there is a nonzero amount of discussion to be had about one of the games core mechanics and as such is a completely unnecessary statement to make.

[Robz888]

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

[faust]

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

How is that uncharacteristical?

[faust]

Oh mcmc sniped me.

[faust]

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

[faust]

Vote: Robz sounds good.

[mcmcsalot]

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

My guess based on flavor is that someone is samurai jack (main character) and the good aligned players have items that can help power up samurai jack to defeat the evil aku/his evil followers. SO while it would be great for the important "I can use things" player to step forward then scum knows to kill him.

Also based on flavor the alignment switch would have to do with the time travel involved in the series not sure how it would be implemented though

[faust]

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

My guess based on flavor is that someone is samurai jack (main character) and the good aligned players have items that can help power up samurai jack to defeat the evil aku/his evil followers. SO while it would be great for the important "I can use things" player to step forward then scum knows to kill him.

Also based on flavor the alignment switch would have to do with the time travel involved in the series not sure how it would be implemented though

Okay. Is Samurai Jack Scottish?

[mcmcsalot]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

[faust]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

[Robz888]

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

It didn't seem sincere to me this time.

[mcmcsalot]

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

My guess based on flavor is that someone is samurai jack (main character) and the good aligned players have items that can help power up samurai jack to defeat the evil aku/his evil followers. SO while it would be great for the important "I can use things" player to step forward then scum knows to kill him.

Also based on flavor the alignment switch would have to do with the time travel involved in the series not sure how it would be implemented though

Okay. Is Samurai Jack Scottish?

He is Japanese from feudal japan. He is a samurai warrior with awesome skills who is about to defeat the evil aku when aku sends him flying foreward in time to when aku rules the whole word and it is jack against tremendous odds. Jack tries to battle aku while finding a way to go back in time and finish aku off before he plunges the world into evil.

This is all off pretty lets say "hazy" memories of watching the show.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

It didn't seem sincere to me this time.

oo this makes me like my vote more

[mcmcsalot]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

[Robz888]

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

My guess based on flavor is that someone is samurai jack (main character) and the good aligned players have items that can help power up samurai jack to defeat the evil aku/his evil followers. SO while it would be great for the important "I can use things" player to step forward then scum knows to kill him.

Also based on flavor the alignment switch would have to do with the time travel involved in the series not sure how it would be implemented though

Okay. Is Samurai Jack Scottish?

He is Japanese from feudal japan. He is a samurai warrior with awesome skills who is about to defeat the evil aku when aku sends him flying foreward in time to when aku rules the whole word and it is jack against tremendous odds. Jack tries to battle aku while finding a way to go back in time and finish aku off before he plunges the world into evil.

This is all off pretty lets say "hazy" memories of watching the show.

This is correct, time travel is an important aspect of Samurai Jack.

[Robz888]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

You are making a lot of assumptions here.

[faust]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

If you say so. I have the ability to protect people.

[EFHW]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

If you say so. I have the ability to protect people.

Surprised here. You said it sounded terrible, mcmc said maybe later, and then you claimed.

[mcmcsalot]

Well that is an interesting claim from faust.


Per robz

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

You are making a lot of assumptions here.

Which was why I said maybe later, if the assumptions turn out to be true

[pingpongsam]

I think I’ve finally rubbed off on faust. Almost every post this game looks like my work.

Big town read, though.

Vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

vote: Robz for wagons!

[Robz888]

lol

[mcmcsalot]

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

[Haddock]

vote: anyone but robz cos i want to actually play a game with him, jeez.

Hi everyone my first game in ages cos i actually have time hooray!

Returning celebration vote: PPS

[pingpongsam]

FOS: Haddock for deflecting from his partner

[Galzria]

I'll bite, because {reasons}:

I'm the Titular Character, and there are items in the game that I'm aware exist, do not possess, but can use.

[Hydrad]

oo we doing claiming?

I will do a claim that I'm not sure how it will go as i'll probably get lynched today. but for the good of the game I want to claim it.

an ability I have is being framed. If you investigate me I will show up as scum.

just doing this so that I don't have to explain myself later or out a cop on a false result. but we will see how this works out.

[LaLight]

Hey to everyone, vote: Hydrad

[Robz888]

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

It is a townie verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond."

[LaLight]

Somehow being framed doesn’t sound like something in a game with changing alignments for some readon

[Robz888]

Somehow being framed doesn’t sound like something in a game with changing alignments for some readon

I see why you'd say this, but I don't know, if Hydrad is scum I don't really see him claiming to be a miller right off the bat. The alternative, he's telling the truth, seems more likely.

[Hydrad]

Somehow being framed doesn’t sound like something in a game with changing alignments for some readon

I see why you'd say this, but I don't know, if Hydrad is scum I don't really see him claiming to be a miller right off the bat. The alternative, he's telling the truth, seems more likely.

Ya I'm town.

[pingpongsam]

Hydrad is probtown for such a claim.

[Hydrad]

well now that I'm basically an IC this game should be easier

[Hydrad]

quick read list.

1=scum 10 = town

1. Faust (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
2. Pingpongsam (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
3. Hydrad (10) IC
4. DatSwan (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
5. McMcsalot (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
6. IDontPlayThisGame (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
7. Lalight (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
8. EFHW (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
9. Gkrieg13 (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
10. Galzria (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
11. Haddock (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
12. Robz888 (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.

[faust]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

If you say so. I have the ability to protect people.

Surprised here. You said it sounded terrible, mcmc said maybe later, and then you claimed.

I'm sure you can draw your own conclusions from that.

[faust]

Maybe it is all just a ruse to not get nightkilled N1!

[faust]

I wouldn't put it past Hydrad to claim what he did. I also wouldn't put it past iguana to add a scum Miller to the game, given that there is alignment change.

[faust]

I'll bite, because {reasons}:

I'm the Titular Character, and there are items in the game that I'm aware exist, do not possess, but can use.
[/quote
So given the capitalization, we are meant to assume that that is you actual flavor name rather than Samurai Jack?

[Galzria]

I don't want to sort out Faust's quote fail above as I'm on my phone - but no, the capitalization was me. My actual flavor name is what you would assume I meant - Samurai Jack.

I also do NOT think that more people should claim unless they, with their personal knowledge of roles/items, think it to be worthwhile.

[EFHW]

Assuming no one counter claims, this could be a rare occasion of Day 1 claiming being beneficial to town. A lot can still gob wrong, but if SJ needs to get items, identifying him early with protection seems potentially like a good thing.

[Swowl]

Hydrad is probtown for such a claim.

yeah not to get into mod meta but "Miller-Mafia" doesn't make a ton of sense. But like if he is town!Miller and also at some point has the ability to change roles it could be a balance act if skum starts to fall behind (concept being, if you are gonna check as skum anyways etc).

[Swowl]

oh yeah and sup all
catching up

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Who wants to be an IC? Not guaranteeing I can IC you nor can I guarantee that I won't IC you by vigging you.

[Robz888]

Massclaim!

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.1

McMcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (4): McMcsalot, faust, pingpongsam, gkrieg13
pingpongsam (1): Haddock
Hydrad (1): Lalight

not voting (5): Hydrad, DatSwan,  IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, Galzria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[mcmcsalot]

Glaz name the itms you are aware of. Us townies might feel better if you name stuff we have

[Galzria]

Glaz name the itms you are aware of. Us townies might feel better if you name stuff we have

No. vote: mcmc for item fishing.

[Swowl]

Galz - do you only know of items that exist AND you can use?

[Galzria]

Galz - do you only know of items that exist AND you can use?

Yes.

[EFHW]

Glaz name the itms you are aware of. Us townies might feel better if you name stuff we have

Lack of a counter claim can make us feel better.

[Swowl]

Galz - do you only know of items that exist AND you can use?

Yes.

How many items are you aware of that exist in the game?

[Galzria]

Galz - do you only know of items that exist AND you can use?

Yes.

How many items are you aware of that exist in the game?

More than 1, less than 100.

[Hydrad]

Galz - do you only know of items that exist AND you can use?

Yes.

How many items are you aware of that exist in the game?

More than 1, less than 100.

ahha. so we know less then 100 items help you. very useful info. hopefully scum can't use that to their advantage.

[faust]

Vote: Galzria this is all a bit too convenient for my taste.

[faust]

And follow-up question: If there was an item in the game that would help you, would the person holding it know that it helps you?

[Swowl]

Somehow being framed doesn’t sound like something in a game with changing alignments for some readon

elaborate?

[Swowl]

also - probably late to the party on this one but... has anyone else noticed that there are like way more people than normal that seem extremely willing to out their "great PRs"?
Galz is Ninja Jesus or whatever
Faust can proc people
MCMC thinks it would be "detrimental" to reveal his role.
IDP softed at Vig


....what are we making of that? (directed at *not* Galz/Faust/MC/IDP)

[Hydrad]

also - probably late to the party on this one but... has anyone else noticed that there are like way more people than normal that seem extremely willing to out their "great PRs"?
Galz is Ninja Jesus or whatever
Faust can proc people
MCMC thinks it would be "detrimental" to reveal his role.
IDP softed at Vig


....what are we making of that? (directed at *not* Galz/Faust/MC/IDP)

I think its interesting. I'm usually for claiming, but i guess i've also slightly claimed already too so don't know if my opinion will be valued.

[Haddock]

FOS: Haddock for deflecting from his partner

I missed you too. 

Hey to everyone, vote: Hydrad

This seems pretty lazy and not massively well thought through.
vote: Lalight

quick read list.

1=scum 10 = town

1. Faust (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
2. Pingpongsam (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
3. Hydrad (10) IC
4. DatSwan (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
5. McMcsalot (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
6. IDontPlayThisGame (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
7. Lalight (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
8. EFHW (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
9. Gkrieg13 (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
10. Galzria (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
11. Haddock (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.
12. Robz888 (5) pretty neutral not much to go on.

This is useless but in a  very Hydrad way.  Leaning town there because of stuff like this as well as parly from a claim that I can't really see coming from scum!Hydrad.

also - probably late to the party on this one but... has anyone else noticed that there are like way more people than normal that seem extremely willing to out their "great PRs"?
Galz is Ninja Jesus or whatever
Faust can proc people
MCMC thinks it would be "detrimental" to reveal his role.
IDP softed at Vig


....what are we making of that? (directed at *not* Galz/Faust/MC/IDP)

Fact.
No idea what it means though. Probably feel it makes at least (probably exactly) one of the early-claimers scum?

[EFHW]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

[faust]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

[EFHW]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

Depends on what scum have been told.

[Galzria]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

vote: faust


First: Town!Faust wouldn't out himself as a protective role. That's all sorts of levels of dumb. And he's calling other people's plans terrible? Lol

Second: His push against me, an un-counterclaimed SJ, based on the argument that "Well, there might not be a Samurai Jack" in the game (or that such a character might not be town - even more ridiculous), is simply hilarious. Even in a world where he was correct (which let's be honest, would never exist here) that the character didn't exist, I would need to be scum that was taking a massive, massive risk by claiming it without that knowledge, when every reasonable person would assume that the character is, in fact, in the game.

The last time I saw Faust making hilariously flawed arguments was when he was scum in Lost with Datswan, Space and Iguana. As town he's significantly more measured and thought out - further, he presses with questions over and over. When he's scum, he posts more opinions and acts like he knows more than he should (not intentionally, it's just more of a tell).

So, yeah. Scum!Faust here.

[faust]

The last time I saw Faust Galzria making hilariously flawed arguments was when he was scum

It's ridiculous to assume alignment based on flavor. Everyone who has ever played a game here knows this. Everyone who has any experience in setup design knows that you cannot just make all the obvious good people townies because naturally that breaks the game.

[faust]

Also, good job ignoring all my questions that might get you into trouble.

[faust]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

[...]
And he's calling other people's plans terrible?
[...]

And I suggest proper reading before jumping to conclusions. I did not call anyone's plan terrible here, I merely pointed out that the plan EFHW suggested scum!faust might have had was terrible.

[Galzria]

And follow-up question: If there was an item in the game that would help you, would the person holding it know that it helps you?

This was, to my knowledge, the only question you asked that I missed - which:

Also, good job ignoring all my questions that might get you into trouble.

Hilariously is NOT.

To answer though: Yes, probably.

[faust]

I'll bite, because {reasons}:

I'm the Titular Character, and there are items in the game that I'm aware exist, do not possess, but can use.

So given the capitalization, we are meant to assume that that is you actual flavor name rather than Samurai Jack?

(admittedly the original post contains a quoting messup)

[Galzria]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

[...]
And he's calling other people's plans terrible?
[...]

And I suggest proper reading before jumping to conclusions. I did not call anyone's plan terrible here, I merely pointed out that the plan EFHW suggested scum!faust might have had was terrible.

You are correct that I misread the quote to which you responded, and thus misinterpreted what you were calling terrible.

And yet, what you've called "a terrible plan" is significantly worse when done as town, whereas it has few drawbacks as scum.

[Galzria]

I'll bite, because {reasons}:

I'm the Titular Character, and there are items in the game that I'm aware exist, do not possess, but can use.

So given the capitalization, we are meant to assume that that is you actual flavor name rather than Samurai Jack?

(admittedly the original post contains a quoting messup)

You mean, like, the very next game post where I answered you?:

I don't want to sort out Faust's quote fail above as I'm on my phone - but no, the capitalization was me. My actual flavor name is what you would assume I meant - Samurai Jack.

I also do NOT think that more people should claim unless they, with their personal knowledge of roles/items, think it to be worthwhile.

[Galzria]

The last time I saw Faust Galzria making hilariously flawed arguments was when he was scum

It's ridiculous to assume alignment based on flavor. Everyone who has ever played a game here knows this. Everyone who has any experience in setup design knows that you cannot just make all the obvious good people townies because naturally that breaks the game.

First point: Fair, to a degree - show me the last flavored game where the titular character, normally a good guy, was scum?

Scum aren't incriminating flavor names usually only when there aren't enough bad guys to make it work - and generally speaking, incriminating flavor names aren't even incriminating because scum are given good guy fake claims.

[faust]

And yet, what you've called "a terrible plan" is significantly worse when done as town, whereas it has few drawbacks as scum.

Well I was not trying to get anyone to claim, so I was not following that plan.

[Galzria]

And yet, what you've called "a terrible plan" is significantly worse when done as town, whereas it has few drawbacks as scum.

Well I was not trying to get anyone to claim, so I was not following that plan.

Nobody can know if that's true or not.

[Robz888]

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

[Galzria]

Sunday's are soooooo slow.

Gkrieg is the only person not to post since I claimed.

[Swowl]

also - probably late to the party on this one but... has anyone else noticed that there are like way more people than normal that seem extremely willing to out their "great PRs"?
Galz is Ninja Jesus or whatever
Faust can proc people
MCMC thinks it would be "detrimental" to reveal his role.
IDP softed at Vig


....what are we making of that? (directed at *not* Galz/Faust/MC/IDP)

Updated (bc I forgot about Hydrad):
Galz is Ninja Jesus or whatever
Faust can proc people
MCMC thinks it would be "detrimental" to reveal his role.
IDP softed at Vig
Hydrad is framed

[gkrieg13]

Sunday's are soooooo slow.

Gkrieg is the only person not to post since I claimed.

No counter claim here.  Faust's position seems weird, even for faust.

[Swowl]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

I have no idea what to make of this. You are to smart to assume both
a) it is actually a good idea for the real SJ to speak up
and
b) to assume that there is a single person on this player list rn that is more confident than not that Galz is actually SJ.

Also what am I missing here - Why would it be Town!Beneficial to send items to SJ randomly?

[Swowl]

Galz - What is the downside you see of verifying how many items exist in the game that you can use?

[Swowl]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Why do you assume that there is a town player with the flavor of Samurai Jack?

Also that is the most terrible plan ever.

vote: faust


First: Town!Faust wouldn't out himself as a protective role. That's all sorts of levels of dumb. And he's calling other people's plans terrible? Lol

Second: His push against me, an un-counterclaimed SJ, based on the argument that "Well, there might not be a Samurai Jack" in the game (or that such a character might not be town - even more ridiculous), is simply hilarious. Even in a world where he was correct (which let's be honest, would never exist here) that the character didn't exist, I would need to be scum that was taking a massive, massive risk by claiming it without that knowledge, when every reasonable person would assume that the character is, in fact, in the game.



So, yeah. Scum!Faust here.

its funny that like I can read this and replace "Galz" with "Faust" and "Faust" with "Galz" and it still pretty much makes sense.

How can you justify him claiming being skummy when you have also claimed?

Also, just for fun... regardless of whether it makes them skummy or towny I wanna run a poll:

Question 1) Who believes Galz?
Question 2) Who believes Faust?

[Galzria]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

[Swowl]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

[Galzria]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

[Swowl]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

I’m not comparing anything. And you also claimed (at least parts) of a role - not just flavor.

[Galzria]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

I’m not comparing anything. And you also claimed (at least parts) of a role - not just flavor.

I have not, no.

[Swowl]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

I’m not comparing anything. And you also claimed (at least parts) of a role - not just flavor.

I have not, no.

So you did not say that you have the ability to know items in the game that you can use...?

[Galzria]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

I’m not comparing anything. And you also claimed (at least parts) of a role - not just flavor.

I have not, no.

So you did not say that you have the ability to know items in the game that you can use...?

That is completely unrelated to my role. Items are a entirely different mechanic.

[EFHW]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

I have no idea what to make of this. You are to smart to assume both
a) it is actually a good idea for the real SJ to speak up
and
b) to assume that there is a single person on this player list rn that is more confident than not that Galz is actually SJ.

Also what am I missing here - Why would it be Town!Beneficial to send items to SJ randomly?

I believe Galzria in the absence of a counter claim, so I did assume others would as well. People have items they can't use, Galz needs items. Some people will send theirs to Galz.

[Galzria]

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

I have no idea what to make of this. You are to smart to assume both
a) it is actually a good idea for the real SJ to speak up
and
b) to assume that there is a single person on this player list rn that is more confident than not that Galz is actually SJ.

Also what am I missing here - Why would it be Town!Beneficial to send items to SJ randomly?

I believe Galzria in the absence of a counter claim, so I did assume others would as well. People have items they can't use, Galz needs items. Some people will send theirs to Galz.

And, as I've mentioned, I believe that those with items that I can use will be aware of it. If that's you, great. If it's not, then don't send me anything.

[Swowl]

Because player X (me) can claim for whatever reason they see a benefit of doing so based on the concept that:

A) There are likely town PR's that can protect me
B) Even if they don't choose to do so or do not exist, scum certainly doesn't have this knowledge, so shooting at me is a real risk for them.

Whereas a player Y (faust) here, claiming to BE a protective PR doesn't- and shouldn't - have the same faith that a DIFFERENT protective PR might exist to protect them.

Further, given who I am in particular, it's especially beneficial for town to know who I am.

Right and it makes perfect sense because you would never take this line as skum.

That's a moot point given my claim. You're comparing my claim (flavor) to faust's (role). No, I wouldn't make THIS claim as scum.

I’m not comparing anything. And you also claimed (at least parts) of a role - not just flavor.

I have not, no.

So you did not say that you have the ability to know items in the game that you can use...?

That is completely unrelated to my role. Items are a entirely different mechanic.

So at this point we are arguing to argue... but your ability to know the items in play you can use in the game is not an item (i guess unless it comes from an item) - it is part of your role

[EFHW]

faust's question earlier leads me to think there may be other role-targeted items currently in the hands of people who can't use them.

[LaLight]

Hey to everyone, vote: Hydrad

This seems pretty lazy and not massively well thought through.
vote: Lalight

Yeah, that was RVS and weekends - the time I'm not usually active in.

Anyway, I have no idea about the series, so I can't assume Galz is town even if he is Samurai Jack. I agree with faust here, would be too obvious to make titular character town and non-IC. Remembering a lot of games, say, Stranger Things, it is possible there isn't any Samurai Jack at all, as he is a fake claim and scum!galz can know that. so yeah.

But I also can't see town!faust claiming a lot of stuff without thinking it through, usually he's very careful doing that. Can he be a Jester? If ii made non-bastard change-of-alignment, he could do a Jester. or Mime. faust is just too obviously scummy.

I'd like to stay on Hydrad though. Something feels off with a Miller claim.

[faust]

But I also can't see town!faust claiming a lot of stuff without thinking it through, usually he's very careful doing that.

Why do you assume that I haven't thought it through?

[faust]

Oh and vote: LaLight

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.2

McMcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): McMcsalot, pingpongsam, gkrieg13
Hydrad (1): Lalight
Lalight (2): Haddock, faust
faust (1): Galzria

not voting (4): Hydrad, DatSwan,  IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

[Galzria]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I look forward to hearing it.

[LaLight]

But I also can't see town!faust claiming a lot of stuff without thinking it through, usually he's very careful doing that.

Why do you assume that I haven't thought it through?

It was right after the beginning of the day and seemed very rushed. I would wait for reactions to the suggestion and people telling if they think it’s a good idea and then claim. What if anyone has an info that there’s only one protective role in a game?

[LaLight]

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

If you say so. I have the ability to protect people.

You say it sounds terrible and without knowing if there is a totular character, mcmc’s alignment you just claim it like that

[LaLight]

Literally 3,5 minutes

[LaLight]

Problem is I can’t see either town!faust or scum!faust doing such a thing...

[LaLight]

Therefore i think he has some ability that activates when he’s lynched or he’s jester. If he’s town with ability, he’d just say it so he’s probably scum. Or I massively overthink it

[gkrieg13]

Therefore i think he has some ability that activates when he’s lynched or he’s jester. If he’s town with ability, he’d just say it so he’s probably scum. Or I massively overthink it

I mean obviously he isn't a jester, and I think we are safe to assume that lynches are normal...

[faust]

I don't think it is helpful to discuss the specific reasonings for my claim. At least I will abstain from any such discussion going forward.

[faust]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

[Galzria]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

And yet simply because you fail to see it does not mean that it does not exist.

[Hydrad]

I believe Galz.

at least for now. I might revisit it other days but at the moment I would say I'm not willing to vote him or anything.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I believe Galz.

at least for now. I might revisit it other days but at the moment I would say I'm not willing to vote him or anything.

Believe that he's SJ or town?

[Hydrad]

I believe Galz.

at least for now. I might revisit it other days but at the moment I would say I'm not willing to vote him or anything.

Believe that he's SJ or town?

Both

[LaLight]

Wow this game goes really slow

[faust]

Indeed.

Request prods on Robz, mcmc, PPS, Haddock, DatSwan, EFHW

[Swowl]

lol LL fades the prod for mentioning that the game is slow?

I am here no need to prod.

As mentioned I find all the claiming very strange with no order.
I would imagine it is because at least some of the claimers have knowledge that they can *do something fancy* or it is because they are skum.

I also think that the claimers are good players so they assumed people would work their way to "strong ass Town PR vs Skum" so I am not on page with removing them from the lynch pool at this point.

Also I see no reason why any thoughts that will be revealed at the end of D1 would be better revealed at that time as opposed to now when we can talk about it. If it was an arbitrary time figure, or like later in the game where one specific lynch could reveal a ton of info, then yeah. But it is just gonna end up being an NAI comment about "reason x is reason x, and I didn't want to say it earlier because of reason y". Then everyone is gonna be like "oh you are just skum bc you used the day to gain info and reads before you gave your reason"

Same old, same old. Really nothing to go on off of the already stated.

Galz is doing the Awaclus thing so he is probably town.
If Faust has "a protective role" and wakes up then he is probably skum.
I am sleepy, but who ever claimed vig is probably skum.
Framed claim is too stupid to come from skum.


and then of course... none of this matter because whoever is skum today may be town tomorrow and vice versa.

[LaLight]

lol LL fades the prod for mentioning that the game is slow?

I am here no need to prod.

As mentioned I find all the claiming very strange with no order.
I would imagine it is because at least some of the claimers have knowledge that they can *do something fancy* or it is because they are skum.

I also think that the claimers are good players so they assumed people would work their way to "strong ass Town PR vs Skum" so I am not on page with removing them from the lynch pool at this point.

Also I see no reason why any thoughts that will be revealed at the end of D1 would be better revealed at that time as opposed to now when we can talk about it. If it was an arbitrary time figure, or like later in the game where one specific lynch could reveal a ton of info, then yeah. But it is just gonna end up being an NAI comment about "reason x is reason x, and I didn't want to say it earlier because of reason y". Then everyone is gonna be like "oh you are just skum bc you used the day to gain info and reads before you gave your reason"

Same old, same old. Really nothing to go on off of the already stated.

Galz is doing the Awaclus thing so he is probably town.
If Faust has "a protective role" and wakes up then he is probably skum.
I am sleepy, but who ever claimed vig is probably skum.
Framed claim is too stupid to come from skum.


and then of course... none of this matter because whoever is skum today may be town tomorrow and vice versa.

No, i posted quite a lot yesterday

[faust]

I am here no need to prod.

If you do not post, then there is a need to prod.

[EFHW]

I'm here. 

[faust]

I'm here.

Vote: EFHW

[faust]

Here's even a case on EFHW, maybe that will get you started.

She immediately jumps to the conclusion that Galzria is town, in the absence of much info. Now this is something I often see from scum if town claims something. They don't want to argue against it for fear of looking scummy doing so. Of course it also makes perfect sense if EFHW and Galzria are both scum.

The only other thing resembling a read that she posted is this:

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

Which is hedgy and doesn't actually state what she thinks about me. It seems that she finds me scummy, but there is no vote or anything. Exactly the kind of thing scum likes to post.

[EFHW]

I don't find you scummy. The narrative occurred to me and I thought maybe people will talk about it, which they did, and maybe faust will survive the night, which remains to be seen.

[EFHW]

Please explain the narrative by which Galz is scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.3

McMcsalot (1): Robz888
Robz888 (3): McMcsalot, pingpongsam, gkrieg13
Hydrad (1): Lalight
Lalight (1): Haddock
faust (1): Galzria
EFHW (1): faust

not voting (4): Hydrad, DatSwan,  IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

Request prods on Robz, mcmc, PPS, Haddock, DatSwan, EFHW

Prods sent to Robz, McMc, PPS, and Haddock.

[faust]

Please explain the narrative by which Galz is scum.

He got Samurai Jack as fakeclaim and saw a chance to grab towncred.

[pingpongsam]

Got my first ever prod. Apologies. Prods are good when you have literally forgotten about the game. I am on vacation out of town and it is my birthday so while I am distracted I also have the free time to give the game attention.

I am inclined to give Galz a pass for the day. Same for faust. Of the two I believe faust is more likely to be scum. The only thing I find suspicious about Galz is the probability that Galz, of all people, would get SJ. I’d feel the same if it landed on Robz or faust, though. faust could easily be scum and the way he is pressing others seems like he may be. His claim, though, just doesn’t seem like a smart scum play for D1. Does faust make dumb plays? I’d like for faust to flavor claim.

[gkrieg13]

vote: faust

[Robz888]

I'm here. I still think I believe Galz's claim, though the scenario faust laid out--scum!Galz gets Jack as a fake claim, tries to milk it for town cred--is not at all unthinkable.

I don't really want to lynch Galz or faust here.

[Robz888]

I am inclined to give Galz a pass for the day. Same for faust. Of the two I believe faust is more likely to be scum. The only thing I find suspicious about Galz is the probability that Galz, of all people, would get SJ. I’d feel the same if it landed on Robz or faust, though.

The probably of any of those people, or anyone else in the game, getting Jack is the same.

[Galzria]

vote: EFHW.

I actually agree 100% with faust here. I have EFHW pegged in my personal QT for literally this exact reason. There are 'x' number of people in this game that know for a fact that I'm telling the truth - me + scum. Scum, knowing I'm telling the truth, wouldn't be super inclined to push back against me. Faust is correct that scum tend to accept things far quicker and easier than town.

Further, EFHW's push to send me items - this feels very much like scum having an item intercept. By pushing my claim as true and encouraging items be sent my way, it controls the flow of items - which begs for scum shenanigans.

There are items in this game I'm aware of and can use. I do not think people should send me anything at all unless they're confident in A) it's an item I can use (as I've said, you'll know) and B) you're certain you can get it to me.

[Galzria]

vote: faust

This quick snap to faust intrigues me as well, as Gkrieg is my second early D1 scum read. This follows faust's case on EFHW with no reason attached. Feels very chainsaw.

[faust]

I am inclined to give Galz a pass for the day. Same for faust. Of the two I believe faust is more likely to be scum. The only thing I find suspicious about Galz is the probability that Galz, of all people, would get SJ. I’d feel the same if it landed on Robz or faust, though.

The probably of any of those people, or anyone else in the game, getting Jack is the same.

Yes, but the conditional probability of Galzria being scum when he claimed Jack is arguably higher than that of some other people being scum when they claimed Jack, so I see where PPS is coming from.

[EFHW]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I think town!Galz's claim is risky but could yield a lot of benefit. I think he took comfort from faust's claim of a protective role, so I hope that was real. Deciding to believe Galz is a risk as well, though I hadn't imagined it would contribute to a scum narrative about me.

[EFHW]

vote: EFHW.

I actually agree 100% with faust here. I have EFHW pegged in my personal QT for literally this exact reason. There are 'x' number of people in this game that know for a fact that I'm telling the truth - me + scum. Scum, knowing I'm telling the truth, wouldn't be super inclined to push back against me. Faust is correct that scum tend to accept things far quicker and easier than town.

Further, EFHW's push to send me items - this feels very much like scum having an item intercept. By pushing my claim as true and encouraging items be sent my way, it controls the flow of items - which begs for scum shenanigans.

There are items in this game I'm aware of and can use. I do not think people should send me anything at all unless they're confident in A) it's an item I can use (as I've said, you'll know) and B) you're certain you can get it to me.

This really overstates the motives behind my posts. I haven't pushed that you are telling the truth, though I did state my personal opinion, or that people should send items. Those are both distortions.

If there are people who have items that they know SJ needs to receive, then that makes it pretty much impossible that SJ was given as a fakeclaim.

[gkrieg13]

vote: faust

This quick snap to faust intrigues me as well, as Gkrieg is my second early D1 scum read. This follows faust's case on EFHW with no reason attached. Feels very chainsaw.

Early case faust is scum faust as I remember. 

[gkrieg13]

Got my first ever prod. Apologies. Prods are good when you have literally forgotten about the game. I am on vacation out of town and it is my birthday so while I am distracted I also have the free time to give the game attention.

I am inclined to give Galz a pass for the day. Same for faust. Of the two I believe faust is more likely to be scum. The only thing I find suspicious about Galz is the probability that Galz, of all people, would get SJ. I’d feel the same if it landed on Robz or faust, though. faust could easily be scum and the way he is pressing others seems like he may be. His claim, though, just doesn’t seem like a smart scum play for D1. Does faust make dumb plays? I’d like for faust to flavor claim.

Also, this seems like town PPS.

[pingpongsam]

I am inclined to give Galz a pass for the day. Same for faust. Of the two I believe faust is more likely to be scum. The only thing I find suspicious about Galz is the probability that Galz, of all people, would get SJ. I’d feel the same if it landed on Robz or faust, though.

The probably of any of those people, or anyone else in the game, getting Jack is the same.

Yes, but the conditional probability of Galzria being scum when he claimed Jack is arguably higher than that of some other people being scum when they claimed Jack, so I see where PPS is coming from.

Thanks, yes, much better put but exactly what I was getting at.

[faust]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

[faust]

vote: faust

This quick snap to faust intrigues me as well, as Gkrieg is my second early D1 scum read. This follows faust's case on EFHW with no reason attached. Feels very chainsaw.

Early case faust is scum faust as I remember.

You remember wrong.

I put a case because this game needed a case. In a more active game I might not have bothered.

[Hydrad]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

That's fair. But unless SJ was given as a fake claim I think they have a decent chance of existing for now. At the very least I don't think I'm going to lynch galz but I will keep this in mind

[Hydrad]

I also have a rule where I never day 1 lynch Faust because of how often scum kills him if I ever think he's scum

[faust]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

That's fair. But unless SJ was given as a fake claim I think they have a decent chance of existing for now. At the very least I don't think I'm going to lynch galz but I will keep this in mind

Well I don't particularly think we should lynch Galz today. It is likely that the situation will work itself out one way or the other.

[Swowl]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

That's fair. But unless SJ was given as a fake claim I think they have a decent chance of existing for now. At the very least I don't think I'm going to lynch galz but I will keep this in mind

Well I don't particularly think we should lynch Galz today. It is likely that the situation will work itself out one way or the other.

Potential upsides vs potential downsides would suggest not lynching Galz is probably a good idea. I agree with that...however instead of the "work itself out approach" I think we need to accept that there needs to be some form of verification presented before it gets too late in the game, or we should put him on the block.

[EFHW]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

But the people who have them would be aware, but rightly staying quiet. Are you arguing for real here?

[Haddock]

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

[Hydrad]

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

I view faust as more on the scummy side personally. But still don't want to vote him.

[Haddock]

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

I view faust as more on the scummy side personally. But still don't want to vote him.

Who do you want to vote for then?

[gkrieg13]

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

Wow, your reads are the exact opposite of mine.  Also, FOS for the last question you asked.  Gauging people's reactions in that manner is scummy. 

[Hydrad]

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

I view faust as more on the scummy side personally. But still don't want to vote him.

Who do you want to vote for then?

hmmm. not really sure yet. Vote: Haddock for now I guess.

[Robz888]

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

[Hydrad]

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

yup. Do you know how often town faust gets through the first few days? i feel like its very little. most of the time I see him as town he just gets nightkilled. I'm not going to try to lynch him for the first bit.

[EFHW]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

I am interested in hearing the thought process that led you to claim, in addition to this mystery idea.

[Galzria]

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

yup. Do you know how often town faust gets through the first few days? i feel like its very little. most of the time I see him as town he just gets nightkilled. I'm not going to try to lynch him for the first bit.

The problem is that it incentivizes scum not to kill town!Faust because you're (and Datswan alluded to this same concept regarding me earlier) essentially saying that you'll give scum a free mislynch later in the game based on "town!Faust should've been NK'd by now."

[Galzria]

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

I am interested in hearing the thought process that led you to claim, in addition to this mystery idea.

I already stated why I claimed:

A) I felt it was safe to do so. If there is a protective role in the game it gives them someone they can reasonably target if they so choose without having to protect blindly. If they choose not to, that's entirely fine too - scum now have to decide between shooting a confirmed Samurai Jack (remember that they know I'm telling the truth) who may be protected, or shooting elsewhere to avoid wasting their shot - in which case they're choosing not to kill SJ, which is a win for town on the night.

B) I'm somewhat more verifiable than most games. While all RMM's may contain roles that can identify a player's identity, this game also includes items. There are items that belong to SJ. Items that I know exist and that other people have. This is a mechanic outside role verification which adds value to the claim.

I put no stock in faust's claim in particular, as you've suggested. He's made a case on you that I had already put together myself, but hadn't posted. This shows me that he and I are thinking alike, which gives me some mixed feelings on him as I do find his play scummy.

As far as this mystery idea, it's not that it's anything important, it's just that it's not valuable to discussions for today - that is, it's not beneficial to catching scum. It's simply a theory (and I would hazard correct) on why my role was something other than IC given my character name.

[EFHW]

Thank you. What benefit did you see in claiming?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

[faust]

Hydrad is town.

[faust]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

But the people who have them would be aware, but rightly staying quiet. Are you arguing for real here?

I am, well a bit, I don't think Galz should be lynched today. But of course if Galz is fakeclaiming and no items exist, it would look exactly the same as if he is telling the truth and noone is coming forward. No single player would be able to counter Galz's assertion that there are items that help him.

Of course it is a bold move, bold the item theory was suggested by mcmc before Galzria claimed, which would have made it easier to fakeclaim like that.

[faust]

I did consider the Samurai Jack fakeclaim idea, since it was raised earlier as well, but I think that would be unbalanced. Especially with the items factor. I never said people should send items. I said people will send items, which was definitely the impression I was getting earlier in the day.

I have yet to see any evidence that the items Galzria is talking about actually exist.

But the people who have them would be aware, but rightly staying quiet. Are you arguing for real here?

I am, well a bit, I don't think Galz should be lynched today. But of course if Galz is fakeclaiming and no items exist, it would look exactly the same as if he is telling the truth and noone is coming forward. No single player would be able to counter Galz's assertion that there are items that help him.

Of course it is a bold move, boldbut the item theory was suggested by mcmc before Galzria claimed, which would have made it easier to fakeclaim like that.

EBWOP

[LaLight]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

[faust]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Not much. Though he should get his ass over to this game.

[Swowl]

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

yup. Do you know how often town faust gets through the first few days? i feel like its very little. most of the time I see him as town he just gets nightkilled. I'm not going to try to lynch him for the first bit.

The problem is that it incentivizes scum not to kill town!Faust because you're (and Datswan alluded to this same concept regarding me earlier) essentially saying that you'll give scum a free mislynch later in the game based on "town!Faust should've been NK'd by now."

so you know that Faust is town?

[Swowl]

@ Galz - Do you think faust is skum?

@ faust - do you think Galz is skum?

Town should forcibly ensue an answer out of both parties. Not just today, but on all days that they both remain alive. And yes, a little bit of that has to do with the fact that you both statistically get NKd earlier in the game than not when you are town.

The potential for a Faust/Galz Skum Team needs to be addressed in no uncertain terms at this point... and potentially more importantly... should not be overlooked as we move forward.


All that being said, I think it would be more benefical to Town at this point is neither died today based on the claimed roles. But as I don't trust either of them I will sheep it up.

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

I would also be ok with MCMC.

I am pretty sure Robz is 50% RVS still.... which is weird given all the other shit (meaning literally everything) that is going on NOT involving Robz.

[Swowl]

This...

I don't think it is helpful to discuss the specific reasonings for my claim. At least I will abstain from any such discussion going forward.

Followed by this...

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

... is ridiculous.

In your opinion - How is it unreasonable for Galz to withhold info after partial claim but not unreasonable for you?

[faust]

This...

I don't think it is helpful to discuss the specific reasonings for my claim. At least I will abstain from any such discussion going forward.

Followed by this...

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

I fail to see a reason why it would be better to delay talking about that.

... is ridiculous.

In your opinion - How is it unreasonable for Galz to withhold info after partial claim but not unreasonable for you?

He wants to withhold information until the end of D1, I want to withhold information until further notice. It should be obvious that the two are not the same.

[faust]

@ faust - do you think Galz is skum?

Nullish.

[mcmcsalot]

I’m here sorry.

I think Faust is town. I am very uncertain about Galz due to the way his claim came about but I agree it is likely to be easier to tell his alignment as time goes on.

I am honestly still happy with my robz vote and will look and some more individuals now.

[mcmcsalot]

The efhw case looks weak but not incorrect.

Gkriegs vote on Faust feels weird and bad but not how I expect scum to vote for Faust there.

I agree hydras is towny which makes my robz vote feel nicer.

DatSwan is being DatSwan but after last few game that means I have zero clue about his alignment.

[mcmcsalot]

I think idp is town and don’t want to say why.

[mcmcsalot]

upon more reading I am actually not as convinced that hydrads claim is towny. I do think his play is though so I guess we will go from there.

[pingpongsam]

No comment on Robz?

[faust]

No comment on Robz?

I am honestly still happy with my robz vote

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, i picked that up, but why?

[mcmcsalot]

Yeah, i picked that up, but why?

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

Followed by

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

Then he goes on to sorta buddy hydrad by saying he is most likely telling he truth (role related read) town reads Galz based on claim. Then recently voted hydrad which is a reversal of his read for hydrad calling Faust scummy but not wanting to vote for him. So yea all that.

[Galzria]

LA for pretty much all of today. American holiday and all that jazz.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.3

McMcsalot (1): Lalight
Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, pingpongsam
Hydrad (2): Robz888, IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
faust (1): gkrieg13
EFHW (3): faust, Galzria, DatSwan
Haddock (1): Hydrad

not voting (1): EFHW

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'll be inactive today as I'm seeing people I haven't seen in a while.

[Haddock]

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

Wow, your reads are the exact opposite of mine.  Also, FOS for the last question you asked.  Gauging people's reactions in that manner is scummy.

No it isn't.  Maybe it would be if I hadn't made my opinions perfectly clear.  But I did make my position clear.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

I view faust as more on the scummy side personally. But still don't want to vote him.

Who do you want to vote for then?

hmmm. not really sure yet. Vote: Haddock for now I guess.

...and you were looking so towny.  Have some scumpoints, friend.

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

The efhw case looks weak but not incorrect.

Gkriegs vote on Faust feels weird and bad but not how I expect scum to vote for Faust there.

I agree hydras is towny which makes my robz vote feel nicer.

DatSwan is being DatSwan but after last few game that means I have zero clue about his alignment.

gkrieg's vote on faust _does_ seem weird and bad, glad you agree.  Not sure I agree that scum wouldn't vote faust that way.  I mean, it's D1, why wouldn't that happen?

What has Hydrad got to do with Robz?

[Hydrad]

I guess I'll swap and go

Vote: EFHW

[Hydrad]

What has Hydrad got to do with Robz?

Then he goes on to sorta buddy hydrad by saying he is most likely telling he truth (role related read) town reads Galz based on claim. Then recently voted hydrad which is a reversal of his read for hydrad calling Faust scummy but not wanting to vote for him. So yea all that.

[/quote]

I'm guessing its this part. but I'm assuming you saw this.

[EFHW]

I guess I'll swap and go

Vote: EFHW

But why?

[Hydrad]

I guess I'll swap and go

Vote: EFHW

But why?

I was looking for who to vote and I found other then faust I didn't have a big urge to many people. But you are biggest wagon and I like wagons. plus the case is kinda nice.

[LaLight]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

this and the fact he pushed faust to claim protective roles. And the fact after the vote that his lasts posts are lackluster from what I see.

[EFHW]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

this and the fact he pushed faust to claim protective roles. And the fact after the vote that his lasts posts are lackluster from what I see.

I'll go along with this. vote: mcmc. As a good a case as there is on me at the moment.

[mcmcsalot]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

this and the fact he pushed faust to claim protective roles. And the fact after the vote that his lasts posts are lackluster from what I see.

This is a ridiculous misrepresentation of how the interaction went down and I will prove it by simply showing what actually happened.

Right out the gate faust says there is a nonzero amount of discussion to be had about items. That statement upsets me as it is an unnecessary comment to make and I say he should instead either offer discussion about items or start discussion elsewhere not simply say maybe there is discussion to be had.

Then faust posts this:

Well okay. I have an item that I cannot use, but someone else is presumably able to use it. Figuring out who would require some sort of flavor reveal. Unfortunately I have no idea about the flavor and don't know how problematic this would be.

Note that I said the original comment was unnecessary and Faust chose to come forward with information about his item to start discussion which I think is fine and much more productive than his original comment, but it is important to see here I did not say you should talk about items it was completely voluntary from faust.

That info leads me to say this:

My guess based on flavor is that someone is samurai jack (main character) and the good aligned players have items that can help power up samurai jack to defeat the evil aku/his evil followers. SO while it would be great for the important "I can use things" player to step forward then scum knows to kill him.

Meaning I think it is likely one towny is important to funnel items to which would mean we need to know who that is, but unless there is protection for him it is risky to come forward.

I then specify:

If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

Just trying to throw the idea out there that the only way I think samurai Jack should say hey it;s me give me the items is if he knew he could be protected and that maybe a protector would want to give him that opportunity.

Faust and I then follow up with:

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

I don't know man, outing protective roles sound pretty terrible to me.

I guess that is true but for later days I think an outed protector would be useful to give a then outed jack a night of coordinated stuff.

If you say so. I have the ability to protect people.

So I clearly agree right now is probably not the best time for a protector to claim but hey its something to keep in mind for when we are claiming, protector followed by samurai jack followed by item givers is a strong/safe claim chain. At which time faust decides that now is an okay enough time to claim. In no way did I "pushing faust to claim". So that narrative is completely bogus

[faust]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

this and the fact he pushed faust to claim protective roles. And the fact after the vote that his lasts posts are lackluster from what I see.

I'll go along with this. vote: mcmc. As a good a case as there is on me at the moment.

So you are willing to vote on a case that is as good as that case on you? I mean you supposedly know that you are town, so you're admitting to voting for a crap reason.

[EFHW]

what do you guys think about vote: mcmc though

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Why mcmc, exactly?  Just cos he's been absent?

this and the fact he pushed faust to claim protective roles. And the fact after the vote that his lasts posts are lackluster from what I see.

I'll go along with this. vote: mcmc. As a good a case as there is on me at the moment.

So you are willing to vote on a case that is as good as that case on you? I mean you supposedly know that you are town, so you're admitting to voting for a crap reason.

The case on me isn't crap. It's incorrect, but well-reasoned.

[Robz888]

I don't think any of the cases on anyone are very good.

[LaLight]

I don't think any of the cases on anyone are very good.

Well, thank you for the insight! who do you think is scum and why?

[Robz888]

I don't think any of the cases on anyone are very good.

Well, thank you for the insight! who do you think is scum and why?

I don't even have so much as a hunch at this point, sorry.

[faust]

Yawn.

[faust]

Deadline is in under two days. Everyone should says some words on EFHW, Robz, Hydrad.

I prefer EFHW over Robz because a) Robz is more commonly mislynched D1 because of how annoying he is. b) I have a good feeling about the way the wagon has shaped.

[faust]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

[Robz888]

I could vote for EFHW I suppose.

Vote: EFHW

[Galzria]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

[mcmcsalot]

I’ll remind people because I was about to do the same, commenting on Faust proposed scumteam generally without reads is more harmful than helpful because of the info it gives scum for endgame scenarios. But giving thoughts are good.

I’ll post more thought about people hopefully tonight maybe tomorrow

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.4

McMcsalot (2): Lalight, EFHW
Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, pingpongsam
Hydrad (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
faust (1): gkrieg13
EFHW (5): faust, Galzria, DatSwan, Hydrad, Robz888

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[gkrieg13]

Sorry quick thoughts from conference, Hydrad’s play seems scummy and even more so with the claim

I haven’t seen what is scummy about EFHW but may have missed something.

I don’t see why Robz was included in the list people wanted thoughts on, but I haven’t read the entire thread as carefully as I would have liked to.

vote: Hydrad

[Swowl]

MCMC:

I think revealing my item/role would be detrimental so I'm not going to do it. If someone think they have a way to protect items or protect people that would be a helpful claim. otherwise I'm not too sure "coordinating" is going to be good based on scum ability to pick off users.

- This is just like almost too skummy to be skum. Idk how to better put that. It has pinged me, I am dog earing it bc IDK what to make of it.

---In between there is a lot of flavor reveal about what Samurai Jack actually is (regarding Time Travel and whatnot)-------

I think idp is town and don’t want to say why.

- IDP has 7 posts since game start, and like 1-2 of them are him stating VLA. Not calling IDP out for anything, but I fail to see how anything he said could give anyone ANY read (whether town or skum) so far in the game.
- Question at IDP... when you you feel comfortable giving the reason?

--- Everything they have said as of late strikes me on the towny side. I said recently I believe I could go for MCMC but upon re reading the only un-characteristic thing to me is how little they are interacting. So they are moving out of my lynch pool for now. ---



EFHW (18):

Scum!faust could have claimed protective role to encourage Samurai Jack to claim. It's pretty safe to do that since any other protective roles are unlikely to counter him.

If Galz is lying, the real SJ should definitely speak up because people are about to send items to Galz.

- This is the first thing I noted that stood out. Kind of the same thing as MCMC... it is like such a bad idea I almost can't believe it came from skum.

----After this is it is discussion of the claim stuff and defending. Upon this re read I am actually liking this case less. I do not think I have ever played with EFHW as skum, so I don't have much to run on, but I feel like skum in this slot would probably try harder to defend. That being said - the MCMC vote really pinged me as skummy. Not so much the reasoning as the player combined with the timing. ---


Hydrad (16):
-

oo we doing claiming?

I will do a claim that I'm not sure how it will go as i'll probably get lynched today. but for the good of the game I want to claim it.

an ability I have is being framed. If you investigate me I will show up as scum.

just doing this so that I don't have to explain myself later or out a cop on a false result. but we will see how this works out.

- Again.. a post that is just like "why would you say this as skum?"

--- The "swap" to EFHW was skummy in timing and reason---




Haddock (5):
Not a lot of content. Skum lean based on game comparison. Could lynch here.


PPS (7):
Not a lot of content. Claimed VLA, acting as such. BC of VLA I would like to not lynch here.



GK (:
- My new favorite vote. Under the radar content. Got on Faust for the skummy claim and all that.
Then this:

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

Wow, your reads are the exact opposite of mine.  Also, FOS for the last question you asked.  Gauging people's reactions in that manner is scummy.

- In the same post Haddock states he thinks Faust is Town and then also asks what people think in regards to the votes on Faust (of which GK was one of the votes). This response is actually way more skummy than the question given the context.



Robz (15):
I am literally incapable of reading robz on day 1. I think he is skum, as I think he is skum every single time I am town. I will revisit later. I do not think it would be a good lynch today and I think that the original Robz wagon will be very helpful info after a few flips.


LL (13):
- Not a lot to go on. The "middle-ing" on faust early on comes off as towny. The general interactions come off as towny. Would like to stay away from this spot for today.


I am missing someone. And then Faust/Galz which I am writing up seperately.
I wanna vote GK.

Vote: GK

[faust]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

[Galzria]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

Disagree.

[faust]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

Disagree.

Well I fail to see how gkrieg is scummy then. People cited his vote against me, but that is really something I rather expect from town!gkrieg.

[LaLight]

not sure why gkrieg or efhw are scummy. I for some reason think we should look into lurkers or Hydrad for a lynch

[LaLight]

also I have no idea how to read DatSwan

[Swowl]

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

Disagree.

with which part?

[Swowl]

not sure why gkrieg or efhw are scummy. I for some reason think we should look into lurkers or Hydrad for a lynch

lurkers or hydrad is a strange concept yes?
Pretty much every one (minus 2-3 people) should be considered lurkers so far.

why Hydrad specifically?

[Swowl]

also gonna take this moment to remind everyone that Galz is supposed to say something important or whatever at the end of day 1.

[Galzria]

also gonna take this moment to remind everyone that Galz is supposed to say something important or whatever at the end of day 1.

Incorrect.

[Galzria]

also gonna take this moment to remind everyone that Galz is supposed to say something important or whatever at the end of day 1.

Incorrect.

Simply something not relevant to catching scum, and hence no reason to spend time having a conversation about it.

[LaLight]

not sure why gkrieg or efhw are scummy. I for some reason think we should look into lurkers or Hydrad for a lynch

lurkers or hydrad is a strange concept yes?
Pretty much every one (minus 2-3 people) should be considered lurkers so far.

why Hydrad specifically?

I don't think Hydrad is lurker. I see lurkers here: [Pingpongsam, McMcsalot, IDontPlayThisGame, Haddock, Robz888] (yeah, I know some of them are officially VLA). Hydrad's framed claim is still troubling to me. And I am also not sure I ever played with him, but I have read some old games where he was very good scum player.

[Swowl]

also gonna take this moment to remind everyone that Galz is supposed to say something important or whatever at the end of day 1.

Incorrect.

Simply something not relevant to catching scum, and hence no reason to spend time having a conversation about it.

No conversation needed.

I was referring to this:

I think it's premature to send items to Galz just because he's claimed SJ. If iguana wanted SJ to be an IC, I expect he'd have included "SJ, the town named [whatever]" like with Will Shef in Okkervil River Mafia.

I have a theory as to why he didn't do exactly that, which I'll post at the end of D1.

Pretty clear cut. You stated you would post something at the end of day 1. I am just interested to know what it is - am I alone here?

[faust]

also gonna take this moment to remind everyone that Galz is supposed to say something important or whatever at the end of day 1.

Incorrect.

Simply something not relevant to catching scum, and hence no reason to spend time having a conversation about it.

Because it is so much better to have a conversation about what you were going to be saying instead!

[faust]

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

[faust]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

[LaLight]

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

Convinced by who? Is lynching me D1 the new black? Did it help in the previous game?

[LaLight]

vote: faust

[LaLight]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

[EFHW]

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

Convinced by what?

[EFHW]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

[LaLight]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

I think this is somewhat very different from usual faust's play and I think this is more scummy than not. I already mentioned his strange claim and change of mind about it in 3,5 minutes at the very beginning of the game and he just seems less thoughtful in this game. I don't believe that he is scumhunting

[pingpongsam]

I find the EFHW wagon troubling. It built quickly based on not much, although there is always not much D1. I’m certainly not reading her as scum enough to vote her. Robz is still a decent vote. faust’s analysis of LaLight seems like the best case of the day at this point. We’re traveling back home tomorrow so I should be around for deadline. Hydrad is still town.

[LaLight]

I find the EFHW wagon troubling. It built quickly based on not much, although there is always not much D1. I’m certainly not reading her as scum enough to vote her. Robz is still a decent vote. faust’s analysis of LaLight seems like the best case of the day at this point. We’re traveling back home tomorrow so I should be around for deadline. Hydrad is still town.

what analysis?

[LaLight]

I find the EFHW wagon troubling. It built quickly based on not much, although there is always not much D1. I’m certainly not reading her as scum enough to vote her. Robz is still a decent vote. faust’s analysis of LaLight seems like the best case of the day at this point. We’re traveling back home tomorrow so I should be around for deadline. Hydrad is still town.

what analysis?

ah, my analysis about faust. I read it vice versa

[LaLight]

I don't like EFHW wagon much as well

[faust]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

I think this is somewhat very different from usual faust's play and I think this is more scummy than not. I already mentioned his strange claim and change of mind about it in 3,5 minutes at the very beginning of the game and he just seems less thoughtful in this game. I don't believe that he is scumhunting

And have I ever been less thoughtful as scum?

[faust]

Also I will probably be entertaining my parents around the time of the deadline.

[LaLight]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

I think this is somewhat very different from usual faust's play and I think this is more scummy than not. I already mentioned his strange claim and change of mind about it in 3,5 minutes at the very beginning of the game and he just seems less thoughtful in this game. I don't believe that he is scumhunting

And have I ever been less thoughtful as scum?

That's WIFOM. And scum makes mistakes

[EFHW]

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

Convinced by what?

Answer to this?

[faust]

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

Convinced by what?

Answer to this?

By LaLight's scumminess.

[faust]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

I think this is somewhat very different from usual faust's play and I think this is more scummy than not. I already mentioned his strange claim and change of mind about it in 3,5 minutes at the very beginning of the game and he just seems less thoughtful in this game. I don't believe that he is scumhunting

And have I ever been less thoughtful as scum?

That's WIFOM. And scum makes mistakes

But you still fail to provide a reason for why my behaviour is more likely to come from scum!me than town!me.

[LaLight]

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

How? Do you think he is scummy?

I think this is somewhat very different from usual faust's play and I think this is more scummy than not. I already mentioned his strange claim and change of mind about it in 3,5 minutes at the very beginning of the game and he just seems less thoughtful in this game. I don't believe that he is scumhunting

And have I ever been less thoughtful as scum?

That's WIFOM. And scum makes mistakes

But you still fail to provide a reason for why my behaviour is more likely to come from scum!me than town!me.

Because I don't see you scumhunting, because scum feels more pressure and makes decisions that they think are good for town, but they are not (still talking about your claim). Scum has more information and they can't hide it perfectly every time. When someone doesn't look like usual self, it's probable they's scum. We don't know what scum knows about the game and/or setup. What if you win if kill Samurai Jack so mcmc's proposal that eventually outs Jack came in handy and you claimed just to out Galz? These are my assumptions, but it all bases on the fact you act weirdely therefore you are more likely to be scum. And why in the world would you turn on your inner Awaclus and just say LaLight is scum? Do you even try to convince people to lynch me?

[faust]

I have scumhunted. I have done twice as much for this game as anyone else. This may well still be below what you are used to. That is because if noone seems to care about the game, it is pretty hard to care myself.

[faust]

And I don't want to discuss my claim, but what you put out there as reasoning is obvious conspiracy theory level stuff.

[faust]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

[mcmcsalot]

So I think lalight is wrong about Faust. But I don’t think that means lalight is scum. Lalight has had some very lackluster games recently (especially when compared to the standard I had previously held for him) and so sort of bad logic and not fleshed out cases is kind of what I have grown to expect from town lalight. It feels like since his really poor sk game in lost Mafia there have been multiple games where I was like “oh he has to be scum” and then it turns out to be a mislynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I think idp is town and don’t want to say why.

- IDP has 7 posts since game start, and like 1-2 of them are him stating VLA. Not calling IDP out for anything, but I fail to see how anything he said could give anyone ANY read (whether town or skum) so far in the game.
- Question at IDP... when you you feel comfortable giving the reason?

I will feel comfortable giving the reason when it becomes relevant. It is not a strong enough reason to outweigh any decent case and thus wouldn’t be worth mentioning until the point that it’s relevant.

[mcmcsalot]

I think idp is town and don’t want to say why.

- IDP has 7 posts since game start, and like 1-2 of them are him stating VLA. Not calling IDP out for anything, but I fail to see how anything he said could give anyone ANY read (whether town or skum) so far in the game.
- Question at IDP... when you you feel comfortable giving the reason?

I will feel comfortable giving the reason when it becomes relevant. It is not a strong enough reason to outweigh any decent case and thus wouldn’t be worth mentioning until the point that it’s relevant.

*fixed quote fail.

[EFHW]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

[faust]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

No.

[EFHW]

I don't like EFHW wagon much as well

I think Robz is the scummiest vote on my wagon. vote: Robz.

[EFHW]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

No.

It seems like you are looking for an easy mislynch.

[faust]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

No.

It seems like you are looking for an easy mislynch.

If I was looking for an easy mislynch, wouldn't I still be voting for you?

[EFHW]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

No.

It seems like you are looking for an easy mislynch.

If I was looking for an easy mislynch, wouldn't I still be voting for you?

I don't know. I almost never get lynched. Good to know you've decided I'm town, though.

[faust]

And the reason I am not making a case on you is because I don't have one. Your posts feel scummy. Either others see that too or they don't.

Isn't this unlike town!you as well?

No.

It seems like you are looking for an easy mislynch.

If I was looking for an easy mislynch, wouldn't I still be voting for you?

I don't know. I almost never get lynched. Good to know you've decided I'm town, though.

I have not, but if I am trying to convince you of something, I might as well do it under the assumption that you are, since otherwise the whole thing is pretty pointless. I will hardly be able to convince you that you are scum.

[faust]

Also last time I checked you were at L-2. What makes you so sure you won't be lynched here?

[faust]

Vote: EFHW actually.

[LaLight]

So I think lalight is wrong about Faust. But I don’t think that means lalight is scum. Lalight has had some very lackluster games recently (especially when compared to the standard I had previously held for him) and so sort of bad logic and not fleshed out cases is kind of what I have grown to expect from town lalight. It feels like since his really poor sk game in lost Mafia there have been multiple games where I was like “oh he has to be scum” and then it turns out to be a mislynch.

Yeah, i missed some games and couldn’t hold up others so it was a lackluster as my life was too busy. I expect to be active this game

[Haddock]

request vote count.

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

Disagree.

I also disagree.  gkrieg reads bad to me here. 
I can't say much about Robz because I've barely played with him.

The most likely scumteam right now is EFHW, Robz, LaLight.

I have EFHW/Gkrieg/LaLight.

Any reason Robz over Gkrieg?

Robz is scummy and gkrieg isn't.

Disagree.

Well I fail to see how gkrieg is scummy then. People cited his vote against me, but that is really something I rather expect from town!gkrieg.

It's not the fact he's voting for you, it's the nature of that vote.

Something’s really off with faust’s play in this game

Thing is, I agree with you, in the sense that I disagree with many of his reads.  But his play doesn't seem scummy, like, at all.

Since his reads are bad, that and this:

Vote: LaLight

I am convinced now. This is a good lynch.

makes me think Lalight is town.  Which is unfortunate because other than that I've been leaning scummy on Lalight (which, tbf, I seem to remember doing quite regularly...)

Vote: EFHW actually.

Huh?

I've totally lost track of where all the votes are, now, but I honestly don't get how EFHW is suddenly at L-1 (isn't she?).  What's she done that's actually scummy?

[Galzria]

I believe she's L-3 actually. At last VC she was L-2 (5 votes). Datswan moved off, and faust left and came back.

[Galzria]

I find the EFHW wagon troubling. It built quickly based on not much, although there is always not much D1. I’m certainly not reading her as scum enough to vote her. Robz is still a decent vote. faust’s analysis of LaLight seems like the best case of the day at this point. We’re traveling back home tomorrow so I should be around for deadline. Hydrad is still town.

It built incredibly slowly in fact. It's taken the majority of the game day as the primary leading wagon to get it to, at peak, L-2.

It's also not built on "not much". There's a pretty ok case there - in fact, as far as D1 cases go in particular, it's decently strong.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

[EFHW]

I find the EFHW wagon troubling. It built quickly based on not much, although there is always not much D1. I’m certainly not reading her as scum enough to vote her. Robz is still a decent vote. faust’s analysis of LaLight seems like the best case of the day at this point. We’re traveling back home tomorrow so I should be around for deadline. Hydrad is still town.

It built incredibly slowly in fact. It's taken the majority of the game day as the primary leading wagon to get it to, at peak, L-2.

It's also not built on "not much". There's a pretty ok case there - in fact, as far as D1 cases go in particular, it's decently strong.

Seriously?

[Robz888]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

Or the scum team contains hydrad and zero mafia experts, or it contains hydrad and faust, who came up with this defense for hydrad...

[Hydrad]

not sure why gkrieg or efhw are scummy. I for some reason think we should look into lurkers or Hydrad for a lynch

lurkers or hydrad is a strange concept yes?
Pretty much every one (minus 2-3 people) should be considered lurkers so far.

why Hydrad specifically?

I don't think Hydrad is lurker. I see lurkers here: [Pingpongsam, McMcsalot, IDontPlayThisGame, Haddock, Robz888] (yeah, I know some of them are officially VLA). Hydrad's framed claim is still troubling to me. And I am also not sure I ever played with him, but I have read some old games where he was very good scum player.

I'll let you know if you are scum with me you are going to be very disappointed. I usually can't replicate my town meta at all and people figure me out right away.

[Hydrad]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

oh. Thanks.

[Hydrad]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

Or the scum team contains hydrad and zero mafia experts, or it contains hydrad and faust, who came up with this defense for hydrad...

I'm going to assume since you separated me and zero mafia experts that means I'm a mafia expert. Perfect.

On a more serious note Lalight feels weird. But his thought of like if SJ dies scum wins kinda thing feels like sometime skeptical town thinks of and is hard to fake that kinda reasoning as scum I guess.

[faust]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

Or the scum team contains hydrad and zero mafia experts, or it contains hydrad and faust, who came up with this defense for hydrad...

Or maybe Hydrad fell asleep on a long train ride while scrolling through mafia games, and in the seat in front of him there was this couple of art connoissers talking about how to frame their new Monet, and in Hydrad's weary mind everything mixed in a dream and when he woke he came up with the perfect fakeclaim.

[Hydrad]

Since it seems necessary to spell it out before I inevitably die N1:

Hydrad is town because the role he claimed to have is typically called Miller. If a fakeclaim like this was discussed in the scum QT, they would have referred to it like Miller. They would not have used "framed" because Framer is a name of a scum role, and not the standard name.

Or the scum team contains hydrad and zero mafia experts, or it contains hydrad and faust, who came up with this defense for hydrad...

Or maybe Hydrad fell asleep on a long train ride while scrolling through mafia games, and in the seat in front of him there was this couple of art connoissers talking about how to frame their new Monet, and in Hydrad's weary mind everything mixed in a dream and when he woke he came up with the perfect fakeclaim.

Probably more probable then me thinking of it on my own. I could be misremembering but I don't know if I have ever fakeclaimed as scum. (well I'm sure i've tried when I'm about to be lynched but I think I always just get lynched because it was such a bad claim) Its by far my most uncomfortable thing to do as scum.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.5

Robz888 (3): McMcsalot, pingpongsam, EFHW
Hydrad (2): IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (4): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am That is in 19 hours and 10 minutes.

[Robz888]

Hmmm. Well, I'm not going to be around much, but please don't quickhammer me--ahem, Galz--without giving me the chance to claim please.

[Hydrad]

I don't think I wanna vote robz

[Haddock]

EFHW is not awful as wagons go I guess.  Better than any of the other wagons.

[Swowl]

I think idp is town and don’t want to say why.

- IDP has 7 posts since game start, and like 1-2 of them are him stating VLA. Not calling IDP out for anything, but I fail to see how anything he said could give anyone ANY read (whether town or skum) so far in the game.
- Question at IDP... when you you feel comfortable giving the reason?

I will feel comfortable giving the reason when it becomes relevant. It is not a strong enough reason to outweigh any decent case and thus wouldn’t be worth mentioning until the point that it’s relevant.

*fixed quote fail.

Yeah a lot of that going around this game....

Here is the thing "holders of wisdom"....
If you die at night you take your secrets with you.
Which of course you know.
And is why I cannot understand why divulging information as it is brought up is not done.
I can think of zero instances on this site where town "had some crazy info they didn't want to share" and then the reason was either a) they were not town, b) it made them look like not town so they didn't want to say it, or c) it wasn't interesting.

[EFHW]

I won't be here at deadline. Last check in would be about an hour before.

[pingpongsam]

I’ll be happy to hammer whoever needs it at deadline. I’m not feeling strong on anyone but okay with Robz.

[Swowl]

is anyone online?
Faust lmk when you get on - I wanna talk about a thing or two before day ends and DL is like 430am my time.

[faust]

is anyone online?
Faust lmk when you get on - I wanna talk about a thing or two before day ends and DL is like 430am my time.

Well I am here now and will be for another 3 hours or so.

[LaLight]

Here and will be here. When’s deadline

[Hydrad]

well unfortunately I didn't fully realize that I won't be around for deadline.

Luckily the I'm pretty happy with where my vote is right now and I think its doing something.

Good luck! (Don't lynch me)

[faust]

Well, that talk with DatSwan was way less exciting than I had hoped.

Request prod in gkrieg

[Haddock]

I'll be here pretty reliably from now til deadline.

Gah. I still like my Lalight vote. If we really want a choice between efhw and robz I'd rather vote efhw. But... nyeh

[mcmcsalot]

I’ll be around for deadline.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.6

Robz888 (3): McMcsalot, pingpongsam, EFHW
Hydrad (2): IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (4): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

That is in about 2 hours.

Sending prod to gkrieg.

[gkrieg13]

Probably won’t be around for deadline. Have posted V/LA, so no prods please. I’m trying to keep up the best I can.

[gkrieg13]

Datswan. You are voting me for the comment about Haddock. I’m saying there that it is scummy for him to say “what do other people think about X” when it is referencing someone being scummy. It is like Instead of giving a case on someone, you are trying to get someone else to make a case. It is also something that is very easy to waffle on later and say that no one else saw them as scummy so I don’t either. Scum test out the water like that more than town does.

[EFHW]

I am town. I have been trying to get lynched because my power is very helpful to town but only if I am dead. I am The Scotsman, a Restless Spirit. Even though I will, hopefully, be dead, I will still be able to vote and unvote, which should be a big advantage to town as I will not count in the players needed to lynch and you know I am town-aligned. My only legal posts will be votes and unvotes. I could use those posts to communicate other things if needed if you are creative. I didn't want to claim because I don't have proof, but it's getting down to the wire now.

vote: EFHW

[EFHW]

I have no items and pm says nothing useful about items.

[EFHW]

I do actually think Robz joined my wagon in a scummy way. I agree that faust has been diffetent, but I think he might be trying to maneuver people. I wish I had more reads.
Town seems lethargic this game. 

[gkrieg13]

vote: EFHW

[Haddock]

Hmm okidoke.
People who are better at mafia than me, does anyone object to me hammering?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 1.7

Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, pingpongsam,
Hydrad (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (6): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, EFHW, gkrieg13
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Saturday, July 07, 2018, 10:30:00 am

That is in about an hour.

[EFHW]

This suspense is not quite killing me!

[Haddock]

I'll hammer in twenty minutes or so if noone stops me.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: EFHW

[iguanaiguana]

Day One Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): McMcsalot
Hydrad (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (7): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, EFHW, gkrieg13, Pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Thread locked!

[iguanaiguana]

EFHW was The Scotsman, a good-aligned human Scotsman, and a restless spirit.

N1 starts now and lasts until Monday, July 9 at 10:30AM forum time. Night actions are due by Monday, July 9 at 2:30AM forum time.

Note: I will add time tags later.

[iguanaiguana]

DatSwan died during the night! He was Rothchild, a good-aligned beast, an item and flavor cop, and one-shot item swapper.

Day 2 Starts now!

Vote count 2.0

not voting (11):  faust, Pingpongsam, Hydrad, McMcsalot, IDontPlayThisGame, Lalight, EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Haddock, Robz888

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

Thread unlocked!

[LaLight]

he was a what

[LaLight]

he was both an item and a cop? Can one be an item?

[LaLight]

I'm confused and can't parse it

[LaLight]

so Robz, how was your night?

[Robz888]

so Robz, how was your night?

...

[faust]

he was both an item and a cop? Can one be an item?

I assume it means (item and flavor)-cop.

[LaLight]

he was both an item and a cop? Can one be an item?

I assume it means (item and flavor)-cop.

oh well, it's clear now and I'm dumb

[faust]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

[faust]

I am town. I have been trying to get lynched

Also this is something I never hoped to read. Obviously EFHW, you should have tried to be nightkilled rather than lynched.

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

[faust]

I guess it's no use antagonizing the dead somewhat-IC. But still. Man. And everybody just swallowed it. Granted, EFHW would never have been killed after the claim. But man was that some awful play.

[faust]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

[faust]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

[faust]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

[LaLight]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

[LaLight]

vote: faust

[faust]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

[faust]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

Town points though

[LaLight]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

erm. All three points are somewhat irrelevant as 1st is WIFOM, second is irrelevant, this is not voting, third, well, has a point, but it's anyway weak

[LaLight]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

erm. All three points are somewhat irrelevant as 1st is WIFOM, second is irrelevant, this is not voting, third, well, has a point, but it's anyway weak

Third point also assumes you are the scum, as you claimed protective role and didn't die and also you always die N1 as town

[Galzria]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

That's been your defense for almost everything this game. "But I wouldn't do that as scum!"

That's not a defense. It's pure WIFOM. And the fact that you're using it as a defense (again and again) definitely merits a vote: faust.

Not to mention:

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

- Datswan being town doesn't make his reads good
- As all alignments. Town v Town, Scum v Town,  and Scum v Scum. You're drawing a conclusion that has no relevance here.
- And you, sir, didn't die even though you claimed a protective role, which is far more suspicious as scum at least had the WIFOM in regards to killing me because I -could- be protected, whereas you almost certainly were not. But this line of argument is what I would expect from scum, so, yeah.

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

That's been your defense for almost everything this game. "But I wouldn't do that as scum!"

That's not a defense. It's pure WIFOM. And the fact that you're using it as a defense (again and again) definitely merits a vote: faust.

Not to mention:

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

- Datswan being town doesn't make his reads good
- As all alignments. Town v Town, Scum v Town,  and Scum v Scum. You're drawing a conclusion that has no relevance here.
- And you, sir, didn't die even though you claimed a protective role, which is far more suspicious as scum at least had the WIFOM in regards to killing me because I -could- be protected, whereas you almost certainly were not. But this line of argument is what I would expect from scum, so, yeah.

Wow I feel smart, that's rare

[Galzria]

Haha yeah. You ninja'd me.

[pingpongsam]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

I straight up said I'd be the hammer man. I'm generally blaise about D1 and this was absolutely no exception. I was going to hammer the L-1 person regardless. That her claim and self vote put EFHW to L-1 is not my issue at all.

[faust]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

Town points though

Yes, well that's an entirely different argument to make. Which one are you suggesting?

[faust]

That's been your defense for almost everything this game. "But I wouldn't do that as scum!"

Well the accusations have been particularly ridiculous this game. I'm not sure how else to respond to conspiracy theories. The fact of the matter is that I don't plan out my every move and hope to achieve some incredible far-fetched things. That's an ashersky trait.

What we see instead is me getting frustrated with the game, and thus trying to shake things up. You know, get some people to participate some more. I wouldn't have much reason to do so as scum, since obviously that leads to lazy people who can't be bothered to scumhunt to go "oh faust is different let's lynch him because different always means scum herp derp".

Not to mention:

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

- Datswan being town doesn't make his reads good
- As all alignments. Town v Town, Scum v Town,  and Scum v Scum. You're drawing a conclusion that has no relevance here.
- And you, sir, didn't die even though you claimed a protective role, which is far more suspicious as scum at least had the WIFOM in regards to killing me because I -could- be protected, whereas you almost certainly were not. But this line of argument is what I would expect from scum, so, yeah.

- yes but scum is more likley to kill off players that pose a threat to them. And then they bank on town not analyzing nightkills. This pattern is exhitibed in multiple past games.
- the conclusion obivously is that scum!you would want to eliminate someone who will probably eventually go after you
- if you put yourself in scum's shoes here, it should not at all be surprising that I am still alive.

I can't help but feel that you want to not understand me.

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

Town points though

Yes, well that's an entirely different argument to make. Which one are you suggesting?

That you're scum thinking but told about it to claim town points as "If you were scum, you wouldn't do that"

[faust]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

Town points though

Yes, well that's an entirely different argument to make. Which one are you suggesting?

That you're scum thinking but told about it to claim town points as "If you were scum, you wouldn't do that"

But I am town deciding to share a potentially useful peace of information with my fellow townies, as well as venting some over the unpredictability of alignment change games. Why do you think it is not simply that?

[faust]

And hey I can answer that for you! The answer is that you already thought I was scummy and simply chose to believe the version that better fits your bias. Or, of course, you're scum.

[LaLight]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

Town points though

Yes, well that's an entirely different argument to make. Which one are you suggesting?

That you're scum thinking but told about it to claim town points as "If you were scum, you wouldn't do that"

But I am town deciding to share a potentially useful peace of information with my fellow townies, as well as venting some over the unpredictability of alignment change games. Why do you think it is not simply that?

I don't know, it's just that you thought about this and I didn't. I even forgot the fact about the alignment change until you told about it today. Yeah, you can say, I am dumber, but I think scum would think about it more probably, just that. Also I thought you were scum yesterDay for you think invalid reasons, but they still stand up to me. This is just one little drop more.

[LaLight]

And hey I can answer that for you! The answer is that you already thought I was scummy and simply chose to believe the version that better fits your bias. Or, of course, you're scum.

Well, maybe it's so as I said in my previous post. I am really scared of scum!you and I think you are scum this game, this is bugging me from D1 that something is off. Thing is, I can never convince anyone about scum!strong!player because I simply can't explain why i feel them scummy for the most time I feel so so at some point I just drop it

[pingpongsam]

EFHW was playing to get killed. What that tells us about her potential alignment changing ability is unclear but I'm inclined to believe it is a bit early in the game to pull that trigger if it exists. But, I also see faust playing to get killed and I don't believe we have more than one restless spirit in the game. Tha lignment changing bit seems more on faust's mind than any one else's.

[faust]

Well if we're playing "people who care about the game are scum" then I can just replace out.

[faust]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

[Robz888]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

[Robz888]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

[Hydrad]

oh boy. Things are happening.

Anyways personally I would think EFHW would only get her power if she was lynched and if nightkilled it wouldn't work?

EFHW I guess if we need confirmation you can vote me and unvote me to say you agree with this? Although I don't know if thats relevant at all. But I would of hammered EFHW after that claim if I wasn't on the wagon already.

[pingpongsam]

In my particular case flavor is indicative of alignment. It seems reasonable with a flavor cop that flavor is indicative of alignment and saying it must not be without a reasonable point towards that end seems pretty odd.

Also, I'm not playing "people who care about the game are scum", that was an intentional diversion from my obvious point which was actually, "people who are playing towards getting themselves lynched might be scum or hoping to become scum", which interestingly enough was the thrust of faust's opening remarks against EFHW, you know, so we wouldn't trust her IC-ish votes. So, while it is bad for EFHW to play to get killed depsite having a role enabled by it, faust is immune from scrutiny for doing the same?

[pingpongsam]

The only reason I am not voting faust is precisely because I think he wants us to.

[Haddock]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

[pingpongsam]

While I'm claiming stuff, I'll say there's not one hint in my role pm or elsewhere about alignment switching. I suspected that it was a scum power to wield upon town, actually.

[Haddock]

I can't really add to the flavour vs alignment discussion, since I don't know the flavour well enough to know whether my flavour is good or bad. And google didn't really help.

[faust]

In my particular case flavor is indicative of alignment. It seems reasonable with a flavor cop that flavor is indicative of alignment and saying it must not be without a reasonable point towards that end seems pretty odd.

And here I was thinking I had made a reasonable point. Oh well.

Also, I'm not playing "people who care about the game are scum", that was an intentional diversion from my obvious point which was actually, "people who are playing towards getting themselves lynched might be scum or hoping to become scum", which interestingly enough was the thrust of faust's opening remarks against EFHW, you know, so we wouldn't trust her IC-ish votes. So, while it is bad for EFHW to play to get killed depsite having a role enabled by it, faust is immune from scrutiny for doing the same?

I won't comment on anything relating to my role no matter how badly scum might want me to.

I am also not playing towards getting lynched. Why would you even think that?

[faust]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

Well done navigating around giving any read whatsoever or any statement about what you thought of Robz's and EFHW's alignment at the time.

[mcmcsalot]

I’m not sure why Faust is getting all this scum reading. Galz’s point was decent but lalight’s and pps’s are terrible.

I too have thought about alignment changing lots, like pps I assume it is a scum power (moreover a scum item usage) that they can use on town. But either way I was happy to see Faust had asked a helpful question I hadn’t thought of. Important to note we simply cannot know that efhw can’t be alignment swapped, not that we know she can be (inferred from Faust’s post). So I’m not crazy worried about it and will for the foreseeable future assume efhw is still a town vote.

Moving on to what is pps talking about that he thinks Faust is playing to get killed? Because he claimed protection?

Robz still feels scummy to me. He was the alternate wagon that was around all day but I couldn’t get to actually go through, his post today still feel like they are from a scum posterior, flip flopping which way he felt about Faust post looks like pivoting rather than townie self correction.

Haddock can you explain what you hope to get out of people claiming night actions or are you just saying that because it sounds helpful. Like Faust claimed some sort of protection but we had one night kill go through and no expectation of a second so why it help for him to claim anything? Hydrad said he could be framed and Galz said he was samurai jack. So what claims are you looking for?

[pingpongsam]

Oh right, I forgot to resume Vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

I voted for EFHW because she had been slightly scummy and she was self-voting and claiming a role that you don't want to self-vote with.

[pingpongsam]

I voted for EFHW because she had been slightly scummy and she was self-voting and claiming a role that you don't want to self-vote with.

I mostly disagree about not self-voting with that role. It was pretty terrible timing, though. If I'm gonna leverage that role with a self-vote I want to drag some scum out into the open with it; not claim it at the end of the day and make sure the followup votes are able to go scot free of any suspicion.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

I didn't get a volunteer, so no, I'm not saying if I did anything.

I voted for EFHW because she had been slightly scummy and she was self-voting and claiming a role that you don't want to self-vote with.

I mostly disagree about not self-voting with that role. It was pretty terrible timing, though. If I'm gonna leverage that role with a self-vote I want to drag some scum out into the open with it; not claim it at the end of the day and make sure the followup votes are able to go scot free of any suspicion.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

[Galzria]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

[Haddock]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

Well done navigating around giving any read whatsoever or any statement about what you thought of Robz's and EFHW's alignment at the time.

I made it abundantly clear yesterday that I found Robz towny and EFHW to be a basically null.

Haddock can you explain what you hope to get out of people claiming night actions or are you just saying that because it sounds helpful. Like Faust claimed some sort of protection but we had one night kill go through and no expectation of a second so why it help for him to claim anything? Hydrad said he could be framed and Galz said he was samurai jack. So what claims are you looking for?

Do I need to explain myself?  Would prefer to minimise explanation frankly.  It has to do with my role, obviously.

More to the point, why is this a question?  Anyone who has already claimed a role should be claiming what they did last night - because why wouldn't you?   That should be default behaviour unless there is some reason not to claim it.

[Galzria]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

Further, I'm now certain that scum fall under the "Demon" Flavor - which then gives datswan's role a new look. He could tell if a player was a Beast/Human/Demon (are there others?).

I think we should mass claim character flavor (Race). SJ is obviously human.

[gkrieg13]

I voted for EFHW because she had been slightly scummy and she was self-voting and claiming a role that you don't want to self-vote with.

I mostly disagree about not self-voting with that role. It was pretty terrible timing, though. If I'm gonna leverage that role with a self-vote I want to drag some scum out into the open with it; not claim it at the end of the day and make sure the followup votes are able to go scot free of any suspicion.

We may have different ideas on how good it is to self-vote at any time though.

[Galzria]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

Further, I'm now certain that scum fall under the "Demon" Flavor - which then gives datswan's role a new look. He could tell if a player was a Beast/Human/Demon (are there others?).

I think we should mass claim character flavor (Race). SJ is obviously human.

(Yes, I'm aware scum probably have fakeclaims, but we may be able to gain insight from a full flavor (race) claim, without giving anything away in terms of who is what character and has what PR)

[Hydrad]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

Further, I'm now certain that scum fall under the "Demon" Flavor - which then gives datswan's role a new look. He could tell if a player was a Beast/Human/Demon (are there others?).

I think we should mass claim character flavor (Race). SJ is obviously human.

oh interesting. I could see this being useful as I wouldn't be surprised if some items could only be used on certain types of races. Otherwise why would the races exist. I guess It could just be flavor.

I'd be fine with a race claim.

[faust]

I don't see what that kind of claim would accomplish.

[Galzria]

I don't see what that kind of claim would accomplish.

That's because you're scum

[faust]

I had a dream in which Haddock and LaLight were scum. Also, I died and somehow forgot about it. Our flavors were based on some plants that grew around the house.

[LaLight]

From what I read on Samurai Jack wikia, my character is explicitly good-aligned. I am not against a race claiming because we can have a race cop along with flavor one and we don't lose anything, so why not

[LaLight]

While I'm claiming stuff, I'll say there's not one hint in my role pm or elsewhere about alignment switching. I suspected that it was a scum power to wield upon town, actually.

I don't know anything about it as well

[LaLight]

There is a role (though I think it is more bastard?...) of Cult Leader that turns people on their side. maybe it's too straightforward. Also I just read in OP that scum also can be made town, but it seems weird as they just will say who their partners are

[Hydrad]

There is a role (though I think it is more bastard?...) of Cult Leader that turns people on their side. maybe it's too straightforward. Also I just read in OP that scum also can be made town, but it seems weird as they just will say who their partners are

iguana did say there might be a punishment for the person who changes someones alignment. Dunno what it could be though.

[LaLight]

There is a role (though I think it is more bastard?...) of Cult Leader that turns people on their side. maybe it's too straightforward. Also I just read in OP that scum also can be made town, but it seems weird as they just will say who their partners are

iguana did say there might be a punishment for the person who changes someones alignment. Dunno what it could be though.

Where did he say that?

[LaLight]

ah, unknown consequences

[LaLight]

what's the case on Robz?

[mcmcsalot]

I think I am against race claiming but I’m not sure.

I can see it having a direct impact on item transfer and potentially helping scum know who to target for kill/alignment swap.

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock can you explain what you hope to get out of people claiming night actions or are you just saying that because it sounds helpful. Like Faust claimed some sort of protection but we had one night kill go through and no expectation of a second so why it help for him to claim anything? Hydrad said he could be framed and Galz said he was samurai jack. So what claims are you looking for?

Do I need to explain myself?  Would prefer to minimise explanation frankly.  It has to do with my role, obviously.

Interesting you want others to claim there night actions because it has something to do with your role. Being non-specific as to why makes sense but my guess would be that you should be more specific as to what you want claimed. You didn’t really answer my question. Like I said Faust claimed protection, hydrad claimed ability to be framed, Galz claimed samurai jack, that’s it. So the only night action to be expected is Faust’s protection and since we didn’t get a blocked kill I don’t see any use in him claiming and explaining to scum how his protection works.

More to the point, why is this a question?  Anyone who has already claimed a role should be claiming what they did last night - because why wouldn't you?   That should be default behaviour unless there is some reason not to claim it.

Again, see my above point you keep saying anyone who claimed a role should claim but literally the only role that was claimed with an action was Faust and I see good reason not to claim anything and no reason his claim would help.

[faust]

Figuring out who is scum should be possible.

Townie people:
Hydrad, McMcsalot,

Town-ish people:
Robz888, Galzria, Haddock

Nulls:
Lalight

Which leaves the scums:
Pingpongsam, IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13

Well actually I don't have much of a read on any of these. But given that most my reads are townreads, let's Vote: Idplay

[LaLight]

Figuring out who is scum should be possible.

Townie people:
Hydrad, McMcsalot,

Town-ish people:
Robz888, Galzria, Haddock

Nulls:
Lalight

Which leaves the scums:
Pingpongsam, IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13

Well actually I don't have much of a read on any of these. But given that most my reads are townreads, let's Vote: Idplay

What happened you don think Galz is scum any more after you were thinking that?

[LaLight]

why is Haddock town-ish? I think he's null at best

[faust]

Relevant Idplay posts:

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

I don't like jokey starts.

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

Bad vote.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

More bad voting.

And that's it. Okay, I am fine with this vote.

[faust]

What happened you don think Galz is scum any more after you were thinking that?

I changed my mind. Basically I don't think scum!Galzria would tunnel me.

[faust]

why is Haddock town-ish? I think he's null at best

His alluding to some role and wanting people to claim is not something that scum usually does. Plus I vaguely remember townreading him D1, but not sure why.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Relevant Idplay posts:

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

I don't like jokey starts.

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

Bad vote.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

More bad voting.

And that's it. Okay, I am fine with this vote.

So you're voting me for playing poorly?

[pingpongsam]

You left yourself off your reads list so big scum points for you.

[pingpongsam]

Relevant Idplay posts:

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

I don't like jokey starts.

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

To be fair, that’s a decent strategy all around. I’ve gotten lynched for poor play plenty of times.
vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

Bad vote.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

More bad voting.

And that's it. Okay, I am fine with this vote.

So you're voting me for playing poorly?

[pingpongsam]

Reads lists are generally scum tools. They are only useful to town for organizing end of day pool resolution and end of game Lylo resolution. The rest of the time they are invitations for town to windsock their intuitions to scum and scum methods for rationalizing their votes. Posting them like faust just did is way more scummy than not.

[Robz888]

Figuring out who is scum should be possible.

Townie people:
Hydrad, McMcsalot,

Town-ish people:
Robz888, Galzria, Haddock

Nulls:
Lalight

Which leaves the scums:
Pingpongsam, IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13

Well actually I don't have much of a read on any of these. But given that most my reads are townreads, let's Vote: Idplay

I agree with these reads a lot, actually.

[gkrieg13]

Will get to this more tomorrow

[LaLight]

Figuring out who is scum should be possible.

Townie people:
Hydrad, McMcsalot,

Town-ish people:
Robz888, Galzria, Haddock

Nulls:
Lalight

Which leaves the scums:
Pingpongsam, IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13

Well actually I don't have much of a read on any of these. But given that most my reads are townreads, let's Vote: Idplay

I agree with these reads a lot, actually.

Where is faust in your reads?

[LaLight]

can we prod EFHW if she's not voting?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

can we prod EFHW if she's not voting?

Can we prod you if you're not voting?

[LaLight]

can we prod EFHW if she's not voting?

Can we prod you if you're not voting?

No, but I can write things other than votes, she can not

[EFHW]

vote: Lalight
unvote

[Galzria]

Well, this is boring. Let's say a bunch of random things:

- The only two people I'm interested in lynching today, barring anybody coming out with results, are faust or Gkrieg.

- I still strongly think we should race claim. I know that I'm human. I've seen a human and a beast flipped, both good, and I know of the existence of a character that is scum and half-demon.

- There's a potential for a triggered UB to exist, and thus Swan's role may not be gone. This could make forcing scum to fake-race claim quite valuable as they could get caught out in a lie.

- Speaking of said character from point two, I believe at some point they will have the opportunity to alignment change. I'm not certain what the conditions for this are though, or how exactly the process works. But as they are half-human, half-demon, and the character changes sides in the show, it simply seems a natural process.

Since nobody wants to get on the faust train right now (I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum), I'm going to switch to Gkrieg.

He was scummy yesterday, is scummy today, and had a scumm-ily timed vote on EFHW.
vote: Gkrieg

[Hydrad]

Vote: Gkrieg

[Hydrad]

I guess I'll also say right now I'm liking galz thinking

[pingpongsam]

Yeah, I was on the fence with that guy but here he is making em think he might be town for a change. I'm not sure what the actual case is on gkrieg but a faust lynch seems too easy.

Let's do a wagon thingy Vote: gkrieg

[Galzria]

Yeah, I was on the fence with that guy but here he is making em think he might be town for a change. I'm not sure what the actual case is on gkrieg but a faust lynch seems too easy.

Let's do a wagon thingy Vote: gkrieg

You've said this before. There have, at most, been 2 people voting for Faust, with the majority of people expressing disinterest towards his lynch. I fail to see how it could be classified as "too easy".

[pingpongsam]

Okay then, Vote:faust

[pingpongsam]

Vote: faust

[Galzria]

Vote: faust

I'm not suggesting you have to vote for him, although I think it's a good lynch. You can vote wherever you want. What I would like to see is justification for your assertion, since I haven't seen it to be true.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.1

faust (2): Lalight, pingpongsam
Robz888 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
IDontPlayThisGame (1): faust
gkrieg13 (2): Galzria, Hydrad

not voting (5): McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13, Haddock, Robz888

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[Robz888]

Vote: gkrieg

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[LaLight]

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

[faust]

I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum

I do not know why this matters - if anything, believing that I am a town player that benefits from being lynched should make you want to vote me more, not less - but I do not benefit from being lynched. If I did, I would just claim and say "here, lynch me!".

[LaLight]

As most of us agreed to a race lynch, i think we should let EFHW or Galz make a list

[LaLight]

I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum

I do not know why this matters - if anything, believing that I am a town player that benefits from being lynched should make you want to vote me more, not less - but I do not benefit from being lynched. If I did, I would just claim and say "here, lynch me!".

That’s why, as I said D1, i have a suspicion, you’re a scum player benefited from a lynch

[faust]

He was scummy yesterday, is scummy today, and had a scumm-ily timed vote on EFHW.
vote: Gkrieg

Great case bro.

How is the timing of gkrieg's vote (which, for people who are interested, was after EFHW's claim) more scummy than Haddock's or PPS's (PPS did not actually vote, but expressed willingness)?

[faust]

I guess I'll also say right now I'm liking galz thinking

You say so, and you said that you are fine with a race claim, so why didn't you race claim?

[Hydrad]

I guess I'll also say right now I'm liking galz thinking

You say so, and you said that you are fine with a race claim, so why didn't you race claim?

My race is machine.

I usually don't do claims tho unless lots of people agree with it as I'm afraid that I might mess things up with a bad claim I guess.

[faust]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Which is funny considering this was actually your first post:

I think I’ve finally rubbed off on faust. Almost every post this game looks like my work.

Big town read, though.

Vote: Robz

[faust]

I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum

I do not know why this matters - if anything, believing that I am a town player that benefits from being lynched should make you want to vote me more, not less - but I do not benefit from being lynched. If I did, I would just claim and say "here, lynch me!".

That’s why, as I said D1, i have a suspicion, you’re a scum player benefited from a lynch

I mean, ugh. It could be but honestly that would just be bad game design. It should be town's objective to lynch scum. Having a scum lynch actually be beneficial for scum kind of breaks the game.

[Haddock]

Figuring out who is scum should be possible.

Townie people:
Hydrad, McMcsalot,

Town-ish people:
Robz888, Galzria, Haddock

Nulls:
Lalight

Which leaves the scums:
Pingpongsam, IDontPlayThisGame, gkrieg13

Well actually I don't have much of a read on any of these. But given that most my reads are townreads, let's Vote: Idplay

I agree with these reads a lot, actually.

I do too, except I would swap  PPS+IDPTG with Lalight.

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I'm ok with a race claim.  I'm a beast.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

Haddock can you explain what you hope to get out of people claiming night actions or are you just saying that because it sounds helpful. Like Faust claimed some sort of protection but we had one night kill go through and no expectation of a second so why it help for him to claim anything? Hydrad said he could be framed and Galz said he was samurai jack. So what claims are you looking for?

Do I need to explain myself?  Would prefer to minimise explanation frankly.  It has to do with my role, obviously.

Interesting you want others to claim there night actions because it has something to do with your role. Being non-specific as to why makes sense but my guess would be that you should be more specific as to what you want claimed. You didn’t really answer my question. Like I said Faust claimed protection, hydrad claimed ability to be framed, Galz claimed samurai jack, that’s it. So the only night action to be expected is Faust’s protection and since we didn’t get a blocked kill I don’t see any use in him claiming and explaining to scum how his protection works.

More to the point, why is this a question?  Anyone who has already claimed a role should be claiming what they did last night - because why wouldn't you?   That should be default behaviour unless there is some reason not to claim it.

Again, see my above point you keep saying anyone who claimed a role should claim but literally the only role that was claimed with an action was Faust and I see good reason not to claim anything and no reason his claim would help.

Yeah ok these are fair points.  I guess my attempt to be subtle was doomed to failure.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

[faust]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

[LaLight]

I'm a machine

[pingpongsam]

I’m a beast.

Vote: Robz

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.2

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, pingpongsam
IDontPlayThisGame (1): faust
gkrieg13 (4): Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, Lalight

not voting (3): McMcsalot, gkrieg13, Haddock

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[Robz888]

I'm human.

[mcmcsalot]

I’m human

vote: robz L-2

[Robz888]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

[LaLight]

Stop. Halt. Desist.

What does it mean?

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, got home from conference late last night.  I will really get to this later today.  Don't lynch me.

[Haddock]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

This last changes things.
Mmk.

I still find gkrieg scummy.

What the hell is the case on Robz?

[Galzria]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

Again: I will only vote for Gkrieg or Faust today. I prefer Faust, who has managed to be far more difficult to gain any traction on than Robz, which seems to be the only real reason people are voting Robz.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: faust in solidarity with Galzria's position.

[Galzria]

vote: faust (move from Gkrieg).

[LaLight]

vote: faust, maybe this’ll work this time

[Haddock]

I'm against a faust lynch.

Happy for a gkrieg lynch though.

[faust]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

[faust]

Can anyone explain how any of the current lynch choices is a better pick than Idplay?

[Galzria]

Can anyone explain how any of the current lynch choices is a better pick than Idplay?

Can you explain why they're not. Your process of elimination that led you to him was nothing more than arbitrary opinion.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.3

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (1): faust
gkrieg13 (2): Hydrad, Robz888
faust (3): pingpongsam, Galzria, Lalight

not voting (2): gkrieg13, Haddock

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[Galzria]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

[pingpongsam]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

[Galzria]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

As town, it should have given you pause. Her lynch was not good for town. It was strictly worse than a scum lynch. If you had any belief that she was what she claimed, it should have made you reconsider.

Now, I'm not arguing that there was TIME for a different lynch, or that her lynch was worse than no-lynch (which would've been the other option at that time). That's an entirely separate argument - and to be fair, that's not the argument that you're making either here either. But to say that her claim didn't give you any hesitation at all, or that you didn't think "Huh, this probably isn't the best town option at this point" seems like a really strange thing to say.

Now, from your perspective, coming in as late as you did and hammering... well, I can't really say. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town that came in and said "Well, this is the only lynch that's happening, deadline is in an hour, and her claim doesn't really change anything so...". But Gkrieg, who voted immediately following her claim, definitely had time to say something - or to weigh in on her claim in some way.

[gkrieg13]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

Rereading the day and posting things as I go.  This seems pretty unlikely.  A scum restless spirit would be much too powerful I think.

[gkrieg13]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

Given that you claimed a protective role, it is strange that you are saying someone is scummy for not dying.  Just the existence of a protective role implies that scum wouldn't go for the main character without strongman/roleblock (which I guess is pretty likely for them to have).  If you have a protective role that is fairly traditional (JK, Doc, etc.), this is scummy.

[gkrieg13]

I have learned that we cannot exclude the possibility of EFHW changing alignment even after her death. Which sucks.

You know something about alignment-changing?

No, but I asked iguana if we could be sure that EFHW stays town, and he said no. (paraphrasing)

Don't want to be that irritating LaLight again but that's some scummy thinking. "How could we make the best out of situation.. ah, can't restless spirit be on our side?"

Well if I was scum with a way to turn EFHW, it would hardly do much good for me to announce that publicly.

That's been your defense for almost everything this game. "But I wouldn't do that as scum!"

That's not a defense. It's pure WIFOM. And the fact that you're using it as a defense (again and again) definitely merits a vote: faust.

Not to mention:

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

- Datswan being town doesn't make his reads good
- As all alignments. Town v Town, Scum v Town,  and Scum v Scum. You're drawing a conclusion that has no relevance here.
- And you, sir, didn't die even though you claimed a protective role, which is far more suspicious as scum at least had the WIFOM in regards to killing me because I -could- be protected, whereas you almost certainly were not. But this line of argument is what I would expect from scum, so, yeah.

This sounds slightly overly defensive from Galzria.  Mainly the "And you, sir" in the last bullet point.  Like Galzria is trying to discredit faust's argument by saying faust should have died.

[gkrieg13]

Well the accusations have been particularly ridiculous this game. I'm not sure how else to respond to conspiracy theories. The fact of the matter is that I don't plan out my every move and hope to achieve some incredible far-fetched things. That's an ashersky trait.

What we see instead is me getting frustrated with the game, and thus trying to shake things up. You know, get some people to participate some more. I wouldn't have much reason to do so as scum, since obviously that leads to lazy people who can't be bothered to scumhunt to go "oh faust is different let's lynch him because different always means scum herp derp".

I think you would still try to get people to participate if you were scum, because that is just something that you do.  Even as scum, you find the game more fun when people are participating.

[gkrieg13]

And hey I can answer that for you! The answer is that you already thought I was scummy and simply chose to believe the version that better fits your bias. Or, of course, you're scum.

Well, maybe it's so as I said in my previous post. I am really scared of scum!you and I think you are scum this game, this is bugging me from D1 that something is off. Thing is, I can never convince anyone about scum!strong!player because I simply can't explain why i feel them scummy for the most time I feel so so at some point I just drop it

This post sounds solidly like town!LaLight.

[gkrieg13]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Why is it more likely to come from scum?  I also don't think flavor is indicative of alignment in this game.

[gkrieg13]

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

Sorry, the problem with reading and commenting as I go.  Disregard part of the above post.

[gkrieg13]

The only reason I am not voting faust is precisely because I think he wants us to.

I really don't think there is any role where this is true.

[gkrieg13]

I want gkrieg, PPS and Haddock to explain their reasoning for voting/being willing to vote EFHW post-claim.

The answer to this is so obvious that this just feels like faust throwing shade.
If Efhw was lying then she was scum and needed lynching.
If she was telling the truth then her lynch seemed better to me than robz's, who was the only other option.
Note that I even went as far as to ask other people whether they agreed with this obvious reasoning.

I think that anyone who claimed yesterday should now say what they did last night. Or present a good reason why they shouldn't, since none occurs to me.

This reads scummy to me.  There are obvious reasons why people who claimed vague stuff D1 would not want to clarify.

[gkrieg13]

Note that EFHW and datswan were different flavors. One was a good aligned human, and the other good aligned beast.

Further, I'm now certain that scum fall under the "Demon" Flavor - which then gives datswan's role a new look. He could tell if a player was a Beast/Human/Demon (are there others?).

I think we should mass claim character flavor (Race). SJ is obviously human.

(Yes, I'm aware scum probably have fakeclaims, but we may be able to gain insight from a full flavor (race) claim, without giving anything away in terms of who is what character and has what PR)

I very much disagree with this mass claim.  I think there are important things that interact with it.  Plus scum must have fake claims.

[gkrieg13]

I think I am against race claiming but I’m not sure.

I can see it having a direct impact on item transfer and potentially helping scum know who to target for kill/alignment swap.

This.

[gkrieg13]

Relevant Idplay posts:

I think Samurai Jack is more likely to be town, though could possibly be scum. I think Galz's claim is more on the townie side. Not sure why everyone else is claiming willy nilly.

I just asked for volunteers. No one seems to have taken me up on it and it's very disappointing.

I don't like jokey starts.

Vote: Hydrad

You think faust is scummy, but don't want to vote for him?

vote: Hydrad

I don't think his response to this is enough to convince me not to vote for him.

Bad vote.

I'm not sure what to make of all of this. No strong reads to speak of.

I agree with the self-voting on the role. I'm not sure how I would have played it myself though.

I can get on the Robz train. vote: Robz

More bad voting.

And that's it. Okay, I am fine with this vote.

This case seems weak.

[gkrieg13]

Well, this is boring. Let's say a bunch of random things:

- The only two people I'm interested in lynching today, barring anybody coming out with results, are faust or Gkrieg.

- I still strongly think we should race claim. I know that I'm human. I've seen a human and a beast flipped, both good, and I know of the existence of a character that is scum and half-demon.

- There's a potential for a triggered UB to exist, and thus Swan's role may not be gone. This could make forcing scum to fake-race claim quite valuable as they could get caught out in a lie.

- Speaking of said character from point two, I believe at some point they will have the opportunity to alignment change. I'm not certain what the conditions for this are though, or how exactly the process works. But as they are half-human, half-demon, and the character changes sides in the show, it simply seems a natural process.

Since nobody wants to get on the faust train right now (I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum), I'm going to switch to Gkrieg.

He was scummy yesterday, is scummy today, and had a scumm-ily timed vote on EFHW.
vote: Gkrieg

I think hoping for a UB or another flavor cop seems like it is too unlikely to want to claim race.

I think your point on alignment change is interesting and makes sense.  How was I scummy yesterday, what have I even said today, and how was my vote on EFHW scummy?

[gkrieg13]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

[gkrieg13]

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

I've been V/LA at a conference.  Got back yesterday.

[gkrieg13]

I -really- don't think that there are two town players that benefit from getting themsevles lynched. EFHW was questionable, because while she's more valuable dead than alive, she's NOT more valuable dead than scum

I do not know why this matters - if anything, believing that I am a town player that benefits from being lynched should make you want to vote me more, not less - but I do not benefit from being lynched. If I did, I would just claim and say "here, lynch me!".

That’s why, as I said D1, i have a suspicion, you’re a scum player benefited from a lynch

I mean, ugh. It could be but honestly that would just be bad game design. It should be town's objective to lynch scum. Having a scum lynch actually be beneficial for scum kind of breaks the game.

Strongly agree with this.

[gkrieg13]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

This last changes things.
Mmk.

I still find gkrieg scummy.

What the hell is the case on Robz?

For what do you find me scummy?

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

Again: I will only vote for Gkrieg or Faust today. I prefer Faust, who has managed to be far more difficult to gain any traction on than Robz, which seems to be the only real reason people are voting Robz.

I'm still confused why it has to be me or faust today.  I feel like I haven't even done anything this game.

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

Keep in mind that I was already at the conference at this point.  I voted for her as a kneejerk reaction because of the self-vote and claim before L-1.  I didn't look back at the thread after, and I only ever have a snapshot of what is going on while I'm V/LA (I have other things that I'm thinking about).

[gkrieg13]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

As town, it should have given you pause. Her lynch was not good for town. It was strictly worse than a scum lynch. If you had any belief that she was what she claimed, it should have made you reconsider.

Now, I'm not arguing that there was TIME for a different lynch, or that her lynch was worse than no-lynch (which would've been the other option at that time). That's an entirely separate argument - and to be fair, that's not the argument that you're making either here either. But to say that her claim didn't give you any hesitation at all, or that you didn't think "Huh, this probably isn't the best town option at this point" seems like a really strange thing to say.

Now, from your perspective, coming in as late as you did and hammering... well, I can't really say. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town that came in and said "Well, this is the only lynch that's happening, deadline is in an hour, and her claim doesn't really change anything so...". But Gkrieg, who voted immediately following her claim, definitely had time to say something - or to weigh in on her claim in some way.

As I said to your earlier post, I was busy and actually did not have any time to say something or weigh in in some way.  I was doing something and just stopped in for a brief moment before the deadline and wanted to help a lynch go through.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

Strange to Galzria who had just needled me for voting faust without reiterating numerous points I had made against faust although I had just sheeped Galzria's vote on gkrieg and simultaneously said I didn't see a case. So, the double standard there was the strange bit.

Feeling pretty towny on gkrieg about now.

I feel good about lynching Robz or faust today.

[Haddock]

Gkrieg's quoted Lalight post does indeed read like townLalight.

One by one my scum reads are disappearing.

Gkrieg I found you scummy mostly for D1 stuff obviously, since you've not been about much d2. I will fish it out tomorrow, can't remember now.  All your recent posts read well, but also train of consciousness catchup rereads are a very useful tool for scum...

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Because it was the first vote after she self voted, and I would expect scum, knowing she's town, to simply accept it far easier than town would. Town would at least take a moment to go "Huh, that's weird, what's going on here?"

I dunno about that. I cam along for the hammer but as soon as I saw what she did I pretty much immediately proceeded. There wasn't much about what she did that gave me pause at all. As I said earlier, the only thing bad about her play was the timing of the self-vote. In fact, I think she could have pulled the deal off without the self-vote and gotten more value out of it. But to say that scum sought refuge in her self-vote is pure WIFOM because that sort of play allows free votes from any alignment.

As town, it should have given you pause. Her lynch was not good for town. It was strictly worse than a scum lynch. If you had any belief that she was what she claimed, it should have made you reconsider.

Now, I'm not arguing that there was TIME for a different lynch, or that her lynch was worse than no-lynch (which would've been the other option at that time). That's an entirely separate argument - and to be fair, that's not the argument that you're making either here either. But to say that her claim didn't give you any hesitation at all, or that you didn't think "Huh, this probably isn't the best town option at this point" seems like a really strange thing to say.

Now, from your perspective, coming in as late as you did and hammering... well, I can't really say. Maybe you're scum. Maybe you're town that came in and said "Well, this is the only lynch that's happening, deadline is in an hour, and her claim doesn't really change anything so...". But Gkrieg, who voted immediately following her claim, definitely had time to say something - or to weigh in on her claim in some way.

It's not that strange as behaviour coming from PPS, tbh...

Still don't get the robz case, can someone explain?

Could absolutely lynch idptg.  Galz is not looking so obviously towny to me any more, but that's probably a subconscious consequence of my now leaning towny on faust and their early game conflict.

[pingpongsam]

Wait, where's the part where you think faust is towny?

[Hydrad]

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

I've been V/LA at a conference.  Got back yesterday.

Now you are overwhelming. . but no in serious I am liking the posts.

[Hydrad]

Unvote

For now.

[Hydrad]

I kinda wanna Vote: Haddock again.

but if the wagons are between faust and robz right now? hmm. I guess right now I'd be fine voting robz but I actually can't think of a reason why. lemme read robz a bit again.

[faust]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

Strange to Galzria who had just needled me for voting faust without reiterating numerous points I had made against faust although I had just sheeped Galzria's vote on gkrieg and simultaneously said I didn't see a case. So, the double standard there was the strange bit.

Feeling pretty towny on gkrieg about now.

I feel good about lynching Robz or faust today.

So what about gkrieg's posts was it that made you change your mind?

[faust]

DatSwan kill suggests gkrieg and/or Galzria are scum.

wow, why?

- DatSwan pushed for gkrieg
- DatSwan/Galzria have a history of voting for each other
- Galzria did not die even though he claimed main character.

Given that you claimed a protective role, it is strange that you are saying someone is scummy for not dying.  Just the existence of a protective role implies that scum wouldn't go for the main character without strongman/roleblock (which I guess is pretty likely for them to have).  If you have a protective role that is fairly traditional (JK, Doc, etc.), this is scummy.

Even with a protective role around, I think Galzria was still a more likely NK target than most other players. But it is much about WIFOM and how the scum team is handling high risk/high reward situations.

[faust]

Request prod on Idplay if people don't want to vote there, maybe I can prod him to death.

[Hydrad]

Vote: IDplay

[LaLight]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

[mcmcsalot]

I actually think the robz case gets better and better as it is increasingly difficult to get him lynched, even with efhw’s vote on him, and me leading the charge, he hovered at l-2 but other wagons keep popping up.

[LaLight]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

L-2 now

[mcmcsalot]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

Some vote stuff.

Robz voters have been:
D1, mcmc, Faust, pps, gkrieg, efhw, idp
D2, pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

Robz votes have been:
D1, mcmc, hydrad, efhw
D2, gkrieg


Ppe: lalight is town

[faust]

I actually think the robz case gets better and better as it is increasingly difficult to get him lynched, even with efhw’s vote on him, and me leading the charge, he hovered at l-2 but other wagons keep popping up.

It doesn't seem particularly difficult to get Robz lynched, not more than anyone else anyway.

[faust]

And if it's difficult, then perhaps because noone ever formulated a reason for a Robz vote.

[faust]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

[mcmcsalot]

Post count (including pre cuz on mobile)


100+ - Faust
62 - lalight
45 - galzria
38 - gkrieg
34 - hydrad
32 - pps
27 - mcmc
25 - robz
18 - haddock
12 - idp

[mcmcsalot]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

I think efhw’s wagon was infact scummy. I think it was an easy wagon for scum to be on and think it’s a rare situation where more scum than normal could have been on it based on the free votes after her self vote.

[pingpongsam]

Pretty sure my whole game has been analyzing faust in a negative light. You might not agree but not sure why I would need to repeat it all. Strange there was no need to back my vote on gkrieg with any case and i flippantly even said I didn’t see one despite voting him in the same breath.

Strange to who?  I don't understand the last sentence.

Strange to Galzria who had just needled me for voting faust without reiterating numerous points I had made against faust although I had just sheeped Galzria's vote on gkrieg and simultaneously said I didn't see a case. So, the double standard there was the strange bit.

Feeling pretty towny on gkrieg about now.

I feel good about lynching Robz or faust today.

So what about gkrieg's posts was it that made you change your mind?

My mind wasn’t somehow changed. Before I steeped a vote and said there was no case. It was as good as any because lurker gkrieg is null to scum. He made good on his promise to contribute once he got the time. The amount of effort is towny enough for today.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: Robz

L-1 truth time

[mcmcsalot]

Faust voters have been small for how strongly they have pushed it which is interesting.

D1: gkrieg, Galz, lalight
D2: lalight, pps, Galz

So leaning scummier on Faust than before. Can’t track Faust. It’s on mobile sadly.

[mcmcsalot]

Faust voters have been small for how strongly they have pushed it which is interesting.

D1: gkrieg, Galz, lalight
D2: lalight, pps, Galz

So leaning scummier on Faust than before. Can’t track Faust. It’s votes on mobile sadly.

Ftfm

[LaLight]

Faust voters have been small for how strongly they have pushed it which is interesting.

D1: gkrieg, Galz, lalight
D2: lalight, pps, Galz

So leaning scummier on Faust than before. Can’t track Faust. It’s on mobile sadly.

yeah, I mean there were lots of reasons and people just ignored it altogether, all of them, it's just us three

[LaLight]

thing about Robz is also that I know he's vla, but he doesn't respond to questions and Stop. Halt. Desist. went completely unexplained. Just like he said don't lynch me and never provided reasons

[Haddock]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

This last changes things.
Mmk.

I still find gkrieg scummy.

What the hell is the case on Robz?

For what do you find me scummy?

D1 stuff.
Horrible early vote on faust for no good reason, throwing shade at me for no good reason, and a weird push on Hydrad who was looking pretty towny (or at worst was playing like classic!Hydrad, which is null at worst).

This

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

Wow, your reads are the exact opposite of mine.  Also, FOS for the last question you asked.  Gauging people's reactions in that manner is scummy.

and this:

Datswan. You are voting me for the comment about Haddock. I’m saying there that it is scummy for him to say “what do other people think about X” when it is referencing someone being scummy. It is like Instead of giving a case on someone, you are trying to get someone else to make a case. It is also something that is very easy to waffle on later and say that no one else saw them as scummy so I don’t either. Scum test out the water like that more than town does.

are both bad reasons to throw shade at me and ignore the fact that I had made my position 100% clear before gauging other people's reactions, which entirely nullifies your point.



Can someone, for god's sake, please present a case against Robz?  I don't understand how he is at L-1.

This

thing about Robz is also that I know he's vla, but he doesn't respond to questions and Stop. Halt. Desist. went completely unexplained. Just like he said don't lynch me and never provided reasons

does not count, it is only confirmation bias.  Of course a player is going to be flustered and annoyed when there's a massive wagon against them for no stated reason.

[LaLight]

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

This last changes things.
Mmk.

I still find gkrieg scummy.

What the hell is the case on Robz?

For what do you find me scummy?

D1 stuff.
Horrible early vote on faust for no good reason, throwing shade at me for no good reason, and a weird push on Hydrad who was looking pretty towny (or at worst was playing like classic!Hydrad, which is null at worst).

This

Here, sorry.

I think faust's reads/cases are inaccurate, but also i think he is town.

Votes on Efhw don't seem great to me, she seems towny as does galz.

Tbh i still like my lalight vote.

Could always vote pps because always.

Does anyone else agree that faust seems towny and that bad votes against him are bad? Don't like gkrieg's vote there much.

Wow, your reads are the exact opposite of mine.  Also, FOS for the last question you asked.  Gauging people's reactions in that manner is scummy.

and this:

Datswan. You are voting me for the comment about Haddock. I’m saying there that it is scummy for him to say “what do other people think about X” when it is referencing someone being scummy. It is like Instead of giving a case on someone, you are trying to get someone else to make a case. It is also something that is very easy to waffle on later and say that no one else saw them as scummy so I don’t either. Scum test out the water like that more than town does.

are both bad reasons to throw shade at me and ignore the fact that I had made my position 100% clear before gauging other people's reactions, which entirely nullifies your point.



Can someone, for god's sake, please present a case against Robz?  I don't understand how he is at L-1.

This

thing about Robz is also that I know he's vla, but he doesn't respond to questions and Stop. Halt. Desist. went completely unexplained. Just like he said don't lynch me and never provided reasons

does not count, it is only confirmation bias.  Of course a player is going to be flustered and annoyed when there's a massive wagon against them for no stated reason.

He is not flustered and annoyed, he tells things with no information. And he never answered for my question about how he reads faust. His posts are meaningless, though there is a lot he could react to

[Haddock]

I keep forgetting that mcmc is in this game.  And it's not because he hasn't posted enough - I'm aware that I can't talk on that front.  But I cant remember anything massively meaningful/memorable that he's done.  Solid actilurking.

[Haddock]

PPE Lalight: Well that's closer to a case than anything I've seen, but it's hardly a great one.   Not posting much information is not a scum trait imo, it's pretty null.  Plenty of people are struggling to get traction on this game.

I was talking about "Stop. Halt. Desist" specifically, which you were presenting as a reason to vote him, which it really isn't.  That reaction is just as likely to come from town as scum.

[LaLight]

I keep forgetting that mcmc is in this game.  And it's not because he hasn't posted enough - I'm aware that I can't talk on that front.  But I cant remember anything massively meaningful/memorable that he's done.  Solid actilurking.

I keep forgetting half of the people here for some reason. The game is not really active. Also I just realized, Awaclus isn't here!

[LaLight]

PPE Lalight: Well that's closer to a case than anything I've seen, but it's hardly a great one.   Not posting much information is not a scum trait imo, it's pretty null.  Plenty of people are struggling to get traction on this game.

I was talking about "Stop. Halt. Desist" specifically, which you were presenting as a reason to vote him, which it really isn't.  That reaction is just as likely to come from town as scum.

Well, yeah, but if you have a direct question, why don't you answer it? It's a great way to participate in the game when you're struggling.

I mean, well, I am not HIGHLY scum-reading Robz, but my scumread's not going to happen and I want something to happen. Robz isn't on townie side, so why not

[LaLight]

i have no idea how faust got to the readlist only with one player on "null", I'd have most here on "null" if I made one, that's why I am not doing one

[Haddock]

PPE Lalight: Well that's closer to a case than anything I've seen, but it's hardly a great one.   Not posting much information is not a scum trait imo, it's pretty null.  Plenty of people are struggling to get traction on this game.

I was talking about "Stop. Halt. Desist" specifically, which you were presenting as a reason to vote him, which it really isn't.  That reaction is just as likely to come from town as scum.

Well, yeah, but if you have a direct question, why don't you answer it? It's a great way to participate in the game when you're struggling.

I mean, well, I am not HIGHLY scum-reading Robz, but my scumread's not going to happen and I want something to happen. Robz isn't on townie side, so why not

That's reasonable thought I still think Robz is on the towny side of null.  Who has asked him any direct questions?

Also who is your scumread?

[LaLight]

I think Haddock, Hydrad and possibly Galz are town, all the others I have no idea. pps feels scummy, but never in the world I would know why, gkrieg, idptg, mcmc, Robz are highly unmemorable, faust is scummy, who else is even here?

[LaLight]

PPE Lalight: Well that's closer to a case than anything I've seen, but it's hardly a great one.   Not posting much information is not a scum trait imo, it's pretty null.  Plenty of people are struggling to get traction on this game.

I was talking about "Stop. Halt. Desist" specifically, which you were presenting as a reason to vote him, which it really isn't.  That reaction is just as likely to come from town as scum.

Well, yeah, but if you have a direct question, why don't you answer it? It's a great way to participate in the game when you're struggling.

I mean, well, I am not HIGHLY scum-reading Robz, but my scumread's not going to happen and I want something to happen. Robz isn't on townie side, so why not

That's reasonable thought I still think Robz is on the towny side of null.  Who has asked him any direct questions?

Also who is your scumread?

You don't read my posts, do you?

Scumread is faust and I try to prove it for the second Day already, my direct question to Robz was after faust's list when Robz said he mostly agrees, I asked where is faust in his reads

[LaLight]

I think Haddock, Hydrad and possibly Galz are town, all the others I have no idea. pps feels scummy, but never in the world I would know why, gkrieg, idptg, mcmc, Robz are highly unmemorable, faust is scummy, who else is even here?

Oh i think it's everybody

[Robz888]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

[pingpongsam]

Vote: faust

[LaLight]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Are you sure your second member is town as well? unvote

[pingpongsam]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

[Robz888]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Are you sure your second member is town as well? unvote

Yes.

[faust]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

I think efhw’s wagon was infact scummy. I think it was an easy wagon for scum to be on and think it’s a rare situation where more scum than normal could have been on it based on the free votes after her self vote.

So first you are like "the people who started this wagon are scummy" and now "the people who voted after EFHW claimed are scummy". Which is it?

[Robz888]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

[faust]

Faust voters have been small for how strongly they have pushed it which is interesting.

D1: gkrieg, Galz, lalight
D2: lalight, pps, Galz

So leaning scummier on Faust than before. Can’t track Faust. It’s on mobile sadly.

yeah, I mean there were lots of reasons and people just ignored it altogether, all of them, it's just us three

Maybe your reasons were crap and others saw them for what they were.

[pingpongsam]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

So we can't have a confirming claim?

From mafiscum:
Tragic Lovers are a rather annoying variant. One can be town aligned. The other can be scum aligned. Each lover can have two win conditions. It can win with its own alignment as its lover loses. Or they can win together, acting as their own faction eliminating all other scum and town players. One must be careful how they eliminate the other players. Eliminating all the town first means the mafia will win with the town lover loosing. Eliminating all the scum first is suggested, but should the town lover just want the win immediately, they can rat the scum lover out. Proper play is for neither lover to screw the other over. They should pursue winning together. To encourage proper play, moderators often tell the pair they must win together and remove their abilities to win separately. When the tragic lovers win together, all other players lose.

[LaLight]

Faust voters have been small for how strongly they have pushed it which is interesting.

D1: gkrieg, Galz, lalight
D2: lalight, pps, Galz

So leaning scummier on Faust than before. Can’t track Faust. It’s on mobile sadly.

yeah, I mean there were lots of reasons and people just ignored it altogether, all of them, it's just us three

Maybe your reasons were crap and others saw them for what they were.

Maybe, thank you

[faust]

i have no idea how faust got to the readlist only with one player on "null", I'd have most here on "null" if I made one, that's why I am not doing one

That's because you have been obsessing with me and ignoring everything else.

[pingpongsam]

OTOH:
a Cop may be a Lover to another player in order to increase the chance of them dying early enough that they cannot break the game.

[faust]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

So we can't have a confirming claim?

From mafiscum:
Tragic Lovers are a rather annoying variant. One can be town aligned. The other can be scum aligned. Each lover can have two win conditions. It can win with its own alignment as its lover loses. Or they can win together, acting as their own faction eliminating all other scum and town players. One must be careful how they eliminate the other players. Eliminating all the town first means the mafia will win with the town lover loosing. Eliminating all the scum first is suggested, but should the town lover just want the win immediately, they can rat the scum lover out. Proper play is for neither lover to screw the other over. They should pursue winning together. To encourage proper play, moderators often tell the pair they must win together and remove their abilities to win separately. When the tragic lovers win together, all other players lose.

Great plan, let's out both or lovers so scum can shoot two townies at once without us being able to protect them!

[LaLight]

how about vote: pps

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock maybe you don’t know the robz case because you are not reading my posts, I’ve made the case twice before.

Once again the robz case:

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

Followed by

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

Then he goes on to sorta buddy hydrad by saying he is most likely telling he truth (role related read) town reads Galz based on claim. Then recently voted hydrad which is a reversal of his read for hydrad calling Faust scummy but not wanting to vote for him. So yea all that.

From there robz has made another scummy interaction involving Faust

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

I think Faust statement was likely to come from either town or scum and robz pivoted because he thought it would be better to town read Faust then scum read him.

After that robz agrees with Faust’s reads and sheeps galz vote on gkrieg. As for the gkrieg wagon he went from zero votes, one post by galz and then got 5 votes in thirteen posts. He would have been at l-1 if pps didn’t Unvote in the middle of the sheep chain.

[faust]

From there robz has made another scummy interaction involving Faust

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

That is actually a pretty townie interaction.

[LaLight]

Haddock maybe you don’t know the robz case because you are not reading my posts, I’ve made the case twice before.

Once again the robz case:

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

Followed by

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

Then he goes on to sorta buddy hydrad by saying he is most likely telling he truth (role related read) town reads Galz based on claim. Then recently voted hydrad which is a reversal of his read for hydrad calling Faust scummy but not wanting to vote for him. So yea all that.

From there robz has made another scummy interaction involving Faust

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

I think Faust statement was likely to come from either town or scum and robz pivoted because he thought it would be better to town read Faust then scum read him.

After that robz agrees with Faust’s reads and sheeps galz vote on gkrieg. As for the gkrieg wagon he went from zero votes, one post by galz and then got 5 votes in thirteen posts. He would have been at l-1 if pps didn’t Unvote in the middle of the sheep chain.

You don’t believe he’s a lover?

[faust]

I still think we should lynch Idplay.

[pingpongsam]

You don’t believe he’s a lover?

He can still be a lover and scum.

[LaLight]

You don’t believe he’s a lover?

He can still be a lover and scum.

You were the first to unvote him

[faust]

You don’t believe he’s a lover?

He can still be a lover and scum.

In which case we would still be better off lynching another scum.

[mcmcsalot]

I don’t believe hat robz is a lover. I believe he is counting on this “let’s not out both lovers” idea to not have to confirm his role. It’s a rather safe fake claim.

[LaLight]

Are scum lovers possible? Balance-wise? Given changing alignments?

[mcmcsalot]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

I think efhw’s wagon was infact scummy. I think it was an easy wagon for scum to be on and think it’s a rare situation where more scum than normal could have been on it based on the free votes after her self vote.

So first you are like "the people who started this wagon are scummy" and now "the people who voted after EFHW claimed are scummy". Which is it?

The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. I think overall the wagon is likely to have lots of scum on it because I think he beginning was scummy and I think the end was free for scum to join if they needed to.

[faust]

Are scum lovers possible? Balance-wise? Given changing alignments?

No.

[faust]

I have to say now that I read to Robz case I am mesmerized by how terrible it is.

[faust]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

I think efhw’s wagon was infact scummy. I think it was an easy wagon for scum to be on and think it’s a rare situation where more scum than normal could have been on it based on the free votes after her self vote.

So first you are like "the people who started this wagon are scummy" and now "the people who voted after EFHW claimed are scummy". Which is it?

The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. I think overall the wagon is likely to have lots of scum on it because I think he beginning was scummy and I think the end was free for scum to join if they needed to.

How many scum do you think there are? Like 6 or 7 or what?

[mcmcsalot]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

[LaLight]

we have reason to use protection on the lovers

Out of context plz

[pingpongsam]

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

[mcmcsalot]

well, if faust is not happening, I'd vote: Robz. I think faust wants us to derail from himself to lurker. That's easy

This is back to l-2 pps as pps unvoted.

I’m very happy that the three people who started the efhw wagon are all not on this one and robz was the fourth.

They wouldn't be as they were presumably on the Robz wagon day 1. I don't think there were many scums on EFHW at all, so I do not see how this would make you happy.

I think efhw’s wagon was infact scummy. I think it was an easy wagon for scum to be on and think it’s a rare situation where more scum than normal could have been on it based on the free votes after her self vote.

So first you are like "the people who started this wagon are scummy" and now "the people who voted after EFHW claimed are scummy". Which is it?

The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. I think overall the wagon is likely to have lots of scum on it because I think he beginning was scummy and I think the end was free for scum to join if they needed to.

How many scum do you think there are? Like 6 or 7 or what?

I would assume 3 but man what your saying g is unnecessary stop acting like I’m going “oh man alll the first three people are scum and like two of the ending people are scum” I’m just saying I think the wagon is more likely to have higher numbers of scum then normal. You can disagree but please be a little less antagonizing.

[pingpongsam]

Can a lover be protected and not die while the other does die?

[Robz888]

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

[LaLight]

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

Unless none of you dies up to the end of the game when we get to decide what to do next

[mcmcsalot]

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

Can a lover be protected and not die while the other does die?

I’m almost certain no. Either death triggers both

[mcmcsalot]

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

Hahahahaha or you live for awhile and then your scum partner definitely won’t claim your other lover later if we run a wagon up on them.

[LaLight]

I don't know

[faust]

I would suggest Robz flavor claims but then since we have race claimed, a scum who knows flavor would probably be able to narrow down the potential lover. So great work on pushing the race claim Galz, really helpful right now.

[Robz888]

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

[Robz888]

I would suggest Robz flavor claims but then since we have race claimed, a scum who knows flavor would probably be able to narrow down the potential lover. So great work on pushing the race claim Galz, really helpful right now.

You are correct that I really shouldn't flavor claim.

[LaLight]

I would suggest Robz flavor claims but then since we have race claimed, a scum who knows flavor would probably be able to narrow down the potential lover. So great work on pushing the race claim Galz, really helpful right now.

Why do we need flavor claim from Robz anyway? Scum is always provided with fake claims, how does it accomplish anything

[faust]

Good thing mcmc has provided us with a lynch pool for today:

Robz voters have been:
D1, mcmc, Faust, pps, gkrieg, efhw, idp
D2, pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

Minus EFHW of course. But I am pretty much fine with most of these. Idplay > PPS > LaLight > mcmc.

[mcmcsalot]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

[LaLight]

Good thing mcmc has provided us with a lynch pool for today:

Robz voters have been:
D1, mcmc, Faust, pps, gkrieg, efhw, idp
D2, pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

Minus EFHW of course. But I am pretty much fine with most of these. Idplay > PPS > LaLight > mcmc.

So you 100% believe Robz?

[faust]

Good thing mcmc has provided us with a lynch pool for today:

Robz voters have been:
D1, mcmc, Faust, pps, gkrieg, efhw, idp
D2, pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

Minus EFHW of course. But I am pretty much fine with most of these. Idplay > PPS > LaLight > mcmc.

So you 100% believe Robz?

Enough for today.

[mcmcsalot]

I would suggest Robz flavor claims but then since we have race claimed, a scum who knows flavor would probably be able to narrow down the potential lover. So great work on pushing the race claim Galz, really helpful right now.

Why do we need flavor claim from Robz anyway? Scum is always provided with fake claims, how does it accomplish anything

It accomplishes nothing other than Faust calling out galz. It’s unecessary to bring up, because even without us having race claimed it wouldn’t be helpful for robz to flavor claim.

[Robz888]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

[faust]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.
Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

Going up from 25% to 50% is pretty drastic in my book.

[faust]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

[mcmcsalot]

Scum!faust carefully debating what type of lover he can fake claim that works with his already made day one claim of protection which he didn’t use night 1.

[LaLight]

I think I'm going to be back to vote: faust

[faust]

Scum!faust carefully debating what type of lover he can fake claim that works with his already made day one claim of protection which he didn’t use night 1.

Blah blah blah.

[mcmcsalot]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

Yea, and my chart has lots of hypotheticals because I don’t know who scum is, scum has a very clear picture of a small bunch of people that could potentially be robz lover

[faust]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

Yea, and my chart has lots of hypotheticals because I don’t know who scum is, scum has a very clear picture of a small bunch of people that could potentially be robz lover

Well I don't think any of the people you listed as potential lovers are scum, so.

[EFHW]

unvote

[faust]

Scum!faust carefully debating what type of lover he can fake claim that works with his already made day one claim of protection which he didn’t use night 1.

Blah blah blah.

Look I can do the same "scum!mcmc clearly seeing an opening to lynch off two town Masons in one go".

[LaLight]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

Yea, and my chart has lots of hypotheticals because I don’t know who scum is, scum has a very clear picture of a small bunch of people that could potentially be robz lover

Well I don't think any of the people you listed as potential lovers are scum, so.

But you don't know and the last I've heard from you about Galz was that you are wary of him

[faust]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

Yea, and my chart has lots of hypotheticals because I don’t know who scum is, scum has a very clear picture of a small bunch of people that could potentially be robz lover

Well I don't think any of the people you listed as potential lovers are scum, so.

But you don't know and the last I've heard from you about Galz was that you are wary of him

Yes I am. But I still think he's town.

[LaLight]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.

Robz wagon was: idp, efhw, mcmc, lalight, pps

Unless you are crazy it’s pretty clear me/lalight/pps are very unlikely to be robz lover, and idp can be added to that list.

Robz is actively trying to get gkrieg lynched so he’s out.

That leaves: Faust, galz, hydrad, haddock

Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

This is explicitly bad, you are helping scum.

I get where you're coming from, but there is no way scum wouldn't have done this anyway.

Yea, and my chart has lots of hypotheticals because I don’t know who scum is, scum has a very clear picture of a small bunch of people that could potentially be robz lover

Well I don't think any of the people you listed as potential lovers are scum, so.

But you don't know and the last I've heard from you about Galz was that you are wary of him

Yes I am. But I still think he's town.

Who do you think is scum other than idp?

[mcmcsalot]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.
Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

Going up from 25% to 50% is pretty drastic in my book.

I think you are not getting what I am saying.

Scum currently has at worst a 25% chance of hitting robz lover. They potentially have a 33%, 50% or 100% chance of knowing who robz lover is based on how many of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum.

If robz lover claims there is a 50% chance they hit the unprotected lover. (And this is all based off your claimed protection which wasn’t used night 1 which doesn’t need to be explained but is relevant).

Again if robz lover doesn’t claim we don’t know he’s town and if you are town and are planning on protecting him (wifom), you could be wasting protection on scum.

There are so many benefits to having the other lover claim I think it outweighs the slightly increased chance in the lovers dying.

[iguanaiguana]

No mod vote count can be done until 4pm FT today. Sending prod to IDP.

[LaLight]

Vote count 2.LL

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (2): faust, Hydrad
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
faust (3): Galzria, pingpongsam, Lalight

not voting (3): gkrieg13, Haddock, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

fixed # for Robz

[LaLight]

2 for Robz, sorry. Oh, this forgotten feeling of making vote counts. I should mod something some day

[faust]

2 for Robz, sorry. Oh, this forgotten feeling of making vote counts. I should mod something some day

You should also not make it look so official or iguana might want to punish you.

[gkrieg13]

vote: IDPTG

Man you guys post a lot while I’m sleeping. Don’t really want to lynch Robz Today.

[LaLight]

2 for Robz, sorry. Oh, this forgotten feeling of making vote counts. I should mod something some day

You should also not make it look so official or iguana might want to punish you.

oh well, changing the color was always enough

Yup its fine

[gkrieg13]

I think Haddock would be a better lynch though.

[gkrieg13]

Oh deadline is far away.

vote: Haddock

[pingpongsam]

vote: IDPTG

Man you guys post a lot while I’m sleeping. Don’t really want to lynch Robz Today.

What about faust?

[LaLight]

I think Haddock would be a better lynch though.

Haddock?

[faust]

Again if robz lover doesn’t claim we don’t know he’s town

Yeah we don't know that anyone else is town either, so why don't we just lynch someone else?

and if you are town and are planning on protecting him (wifom), you could be wasting protection on scum.

That is always a risk, so I fail to see what makes Robz special. Also you already alluded that you still wouldn't believe someone who claims lover now.

[pingpongsam]

I would believe a lover claim from anyone right now.

[faust]

I would believe a lover claim from anyone right now.

Even from me?

[LaLight]

mcmc is scumreading faust but never voted for him

[faust]

Who do you think is scum other than idp?

A subset of PPS, you, gkrieg.

[pingpongsam]

I would believe a lover claim from anyone right now.

Even from me?

Are you claiming?

[pingpongsam]

That no one is claiming is indicative of Robz lying. If faust claimed to be Robz' lover I think it reconciles with his also claim of be protective from a balance perspective but not necessarily from a claiming to be protective on D1 perspective. If I were protective but had this big achilles heel of causing a town death when dying I'd avoid claiming my protective ability probably altogether but definitely not on D1. However, there's nothing preventing one of the pair of lovers from being scum. So, if faust claims to be Robz' lover and to also be town can he also claim to know that Robz is town like Robz claims to know his lover is town? If not, would faust consider that dying and removing his protective role from the game is worth killing scum if Robz is, in fact, scum?

[pingpongsam]

Who do you think is scum other than idp?

A subset of PPS, you, gkrieg.

See, that's the thing. I can't speak for IDP but the rest of these kids are conf!-prob!town

[faust]

Who do you think is scum other than idp?

A subset of PPS, you, gkrieg.

See, that's the thing. I can't speak for IDP but the rest of these kids are conf!-prob!town

Are you claiming?

[pingpongsam]

Yep, I'm claiming to be town and that I think the rest of the lot are likely town.

[mcmcsalot]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

[mcmcsalot]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED.

Why can’t you answer if your lover knows of your existence...this is so such a scummy part of the claim. I don’t get why everyone is fine leaving robz and lover claim with zero explaination, no supporting claim, this is ridiculous.

[Robz888]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

Possibly some people who backed off are scum that know I'm telling the truth and it will look bad after my flip if they helped lynch me.

I do think you're town BTW, mcmc.

[Robz888]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

[pingpongsam]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

Possibly some people who backed off are scum that know I'm telling the truth and it will look bad after my flip if they helped lynch me.

I do think you're town BTW, mcmc.

Haha, that's hilarious. I switched votes immediately because I expected a counterclaim and some analysis. Since we are not getting that I am perfectly fine lynching Robz. Go ahead and consider him +1 vote because if he goes to L-1 again I am going to hammer him.

[pingpongsam]

If Galz is scum he has mind controlled this day perfectly because as far as i am concerned it's either faust or Robz.

[Robz888]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

Possibly some people who backed off are scum that know I'm telling the truth and it will look bad after my flip if they helped lynch me.

I do think you're town BTW, mcmc.

Haha, that's hilarious. I switched votes immediately because I expected a counterclaim and some analysis. Since we are not getting that I am perfectly fine lynching Robz. Go ahead and consider him +1 vote because if he goes to L-1 again I am going to hammer him.

You expected a counterclaim? I.e., someone saying, "No man, Robz isn't a Lover... I am!" That's a weird thing to expect.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

I see I missed that. You “relenting” though is still so much scummier than just confirming that info right away. It’s like you were feeling out maybe claiming that the other lover didn’t know and then decided that would look too scummy.

Also your response to the criticism of people wanting your lover to claim I is scummy. Everything is pulling teeth.

This is your third statement after saying you know your lover is town and that you don’t think you should answer if your lover knows of you.

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is totally a scum oriented mindset. A town lover who’s on says I am a town lover thinks “when I flip you know I’m a lover”. A scum who is faking thinks “guys when my other lover dies you will know I am a lover because i’ll flip to”.  Also I’ve never heard you call someone a dolt.

None of this feels like organic town!lover robz at l-1 about to cause the death of two townies.

[mcmcsalot]

If Galz is scum he has mind controlled this day perfectly because as far as i am concerned it's either faust or Robz.

I think it could very likely be both.

Pps clearly meant confirming claim robz not counter claim.

[Robz888]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

I see I missed that. You “relenting” though is still so much scummier than just confirming that info right away. It’s like you were feeling out maybe claiming that the other lover didn’t know and then decided that would look too scummy.

Also your response to the criticism of people wanting your lover to claim I is scummy. Everything is pulling teeth.

This is your third statement after saying you know your lover is town and that you don’t think you should answer if your lover knows of you.

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is totally a scum oriented mindset. A town lover who’s on says I am a town lover thinks “when I flip you know I’m a lover”. A scum who is faking thinks “guys when my other lover dies you will know I am a lover because i’ll flip to”.  Also I’ve never heard you call someone a dolt.

None of this feels like organic town!lover robz at l-1 about to cause the death of two townies.

I have no idea what the second part of your post is even saying.

As for the first part, I initially was resistant to say whether the other person knows because I wasn't sure I wanted to reveal whether we had a QT together, which is sort of an implication of saying he knows.

[pingpongsam]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

I see I missed that. You “relenting” though is still so much scummier than just confirming that info right away. It’s like you were feeling out maybe claiming that the other lover didn’t know and then decided that would look too scummy.

Also your response to the criticism of people wanting your lover to claim I is scummy. Everything is pulling teeth.

This is your third statement after saying you know your lover is town and that you don’t think you should answer if your lover knows of you.

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is totally a scum oriented mindset. A town lover who’s on says I am a town lover thinks “when I flip you know I’m a lover”. A scum who is faking thinks “guys when my other lover dies you will know I am a lover because i’ll flip to”.  Also I’ve never heard you call someone a dolt.

None of this feels like organic town!lover robz at l-1 about to cause the death of two townies.

I have no idea what the second part of your post is even saying.

As for the first part, I initially was resistant to say whether the other person knows because I wasn't sure I wanted to reveal whether we had a QT together, which is sort of an implication of saying he knows.

Well, shit, man, you just revealed more than you had to right there. Saying the other person knows does not imply a QT, in fact, I would have interpreted it to mean they were told in their PM who their lover was and informed that you both know of each other's existence.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.4

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (2): faust, Hydrad
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
faust (3): Galzria, pingpongsam, Lalight
Haddock (1): gkrieg13

not voting (2): Haddock, EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[faust]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

This happens a lot. You tell the story that fits your beliefs when there is no actual evidence that this is what happened rather than some story in which Robzis town. That's not scumhunting.

[faust]

If Galz is scum he has mind controlled this day perfectly because as far as i am concerned it's either faust or Robz.

Didn't Galz say gkrieg or faust?

[faust]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

Possibly some people who backed off are scum that know I'm telling the truth and it will look bad after my flip if they helped lynch me.

I do think you're town BTW, mcmc.

Haha, that's hilarious. I switched votes immediately because I expected a counterclaim and some analysis. Since we are not getting that I am perfectly fine lynching Robz. Go ahead and consider him +1 vote because if he goes to L-1 again I am going to hammer him.

So you are debating that you are scum who backed off of Robz... but not because you are not scum, no, because you didn't really back off!

[faust]

In fact Vote: PPS this scumminess has gone on for too long.

[Galzria]

In fact Vote: PPS this scumminess has gone on for too long.

I'm actually ok with that. vote: PPS

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

[Galzria]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

[Robz888]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

I see I missed that. You “relenting” though is still so much scummier than just confirming that info right away. It’s like you were feeling out maybe claiming that the other lover didn’t know and then decided that would look too scummy.

Also your response to the criticism of people wanting your lover to claim I is scummy. Everything is pulling teeth.

This is your third statement after saying you know your lover is town and that you don’t think you should answer if your lover knows of you.

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is totally a scum oriented mindset. A town lover who’s on says I am a town lover thinks “when I flip you know I’m a lover”. A scum who is faking thinks “guys when my other lover dies you will know I am a lover because i’ll flip to”.  Also I’ve never heard you call someone a dolt.

None of this feels like organic town!lover robz at l-1 about to cause the death of two townies.

I have no idea what the second part of your post is even saying.

As for the first part, I initially was resistant to say whether the other person knows because I wasn't sure I wanted to reveal whether we had a QT together, which is sort of an implication of saying he knows.

Well, shit, man, you just revealed more than you had to right there. Saying the other person knows does not imply a QT, in fact, I would have interpreted it to mean they were told in their PM who their lover was and informed that you both know of each other's existence.

Oh, did I reveal too much? After being badgered incessantly that I wasn’t revealing enough? Boo freaking hoo

[Haddock]

Haddock maybe you don’t know the robz case because you are not reading my posts, I’ve made the case twice before.

Once again the robz case:

Vote: mcmc for the uncharacteristically quick jumping down faust's throat.

Vote: robz for being scum check the past few games I have jumped down all inital "blah blah we should talk setup blah blah posts" they are useless

Followed by

lol

scummy verbalization of "hmm this is an interesting wagon not based on much, not sure how I should respond"

Then he goes on to sorta buddy hydrad by saying he is most likely telling he truth (role related read) town reads Galz based on claim. Then recently voted hydrad which is a reversal of his read for hydrad calling Faust scummy but not wanting to vote for him. So yea all that.

From there robz has made another scummy interaction involving Faust

Here is another thing to think about: DatSwan flipped flavor cop. Now if flavor implied alignment that would be a very strong role by itself, and stronger still since he had other stuff added on top of it. Which kind of makes me think that flavor does not indicate alignment in this game.

Counterpoint: I think this is wrong, and also, this thinking is more likely to come from scum.

Actually, I got that wrong. I think faust is mistaken about this, but the sentiment is not more likely to come from scum.

I think Faust statement was likely to come from either town or scum and robz pivoted because he thought it would be better to town read Faust then scum read him.

After that robz agrees with Faust’s reads and sheeps galz vote on gkrieg. As for the gkrieg wagon he went from zero votes, one post by galz and then got 5 votes in thirteen posts. He would have been at l-1 if pps didn’t Unvote in the middle of the sheep chain.

I probably don't remember your quoted case because it was early day one! Are we really taking that all that seriously?
As for the rest, it all seems to hinge on faust being scum, which I don't think is the case.
Or it is about gkrieg, which like, even if you think that's a scumdriven wagon, scumdriven wagons are not necessarily started by scum.

[Haddock]

I don’t believe hat robz is a lover. I believe he is counting on this “let’s not out both lovers” idea to not have to confirm his role. It’s a rather safe fake claim.

I don't think your case on robz is strong enough to justify this tunnel.

[Haddock]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

Don't like this.

If we believe faust is town with a protective role, which i am leaning towards, he also claimed to take no action last night. Which suggests thefe is some drawback or something we are not aware of. Never mind the fact that scum certainly have some method to override protection. Let's try not to take the protection too much for granted.

[Haddock]

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is endearing you to noone and also assumes we know you're town, which obviously noone does. Chill.

[Haddock]

Who do you think is scum other than idp?

A subset of PPS, you, gkrieg.

See, that's the thing. I can't speak for IDP but the rest of these kids are conf!-prob!town

You and I play this game in drastically different ways...

[pingpongsam]

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

Again: I will only vote for Gkrieg or Faust today. I prefer Faust, who has managed to be far more difficult to gain any traction on than Robz, which seems to be the only real reason people are voting Robz.

I'm still confused why it has to be me or faust today.  I feel like I haven't even done anything this game.

Yeah, you guys were right. I misremembered it so better lynch me even though I was already sheeping Galz and just expressing concern that my town read on him would get us in trouble if I was wrong.

[Haddock]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

This reads like confirmation bias to me.

I think any towny on the robz wagon would have been given pause by that lover claim.  I mean, come on, unless you're 100% certain that someone is scum, a lover claim is always gonna make you unvote at least temporarily, to have this discussion and mull things over.  Your interpetation here is painting things in the worst possible light.

[Haddock]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

This happens a lot. You tell the story that fits your beliefs when there is no actual evidence that this is what happened rather than some story in which Robzis town. That's not scumhunting.

Ding ding.
Sorry to just be repeating you, faust, catchup rereads and all.

[Haddock]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

[pingpongsam]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

[Haddock]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Consistency is not a town trait

[Galzria]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Consistency is not a town trait

This

[faust]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Mmh. I mean I could still go for Idplay. It is hard to tell which I like more. Idplay could be just lurking town, there are not many data points here. On the other hand, PPS does silly things all the time as any alignment, and his broad unsubstantiated defense of people that I find scummy doesn't jive with his usual bussing scum persona.

I guess I will Vote: Idplay for the time being. Simply because when in doubt, lynch a lurker. (WIDLAL is the new LALL).

[Hydrad]

Dunno what to post so I'm just kinda posting.

But I believe robzzz I guess. I didn't at the start of his claim 100% but the whole reaction afterwards leans town on me.

I'm still fine with IDPTG I guess but weird that he hasn't said anything for a while now.

[LaLight]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Mmh. I mean I could still go for Idplay. It is hard to tell which I like more. Idplay could be just lurking town, there are not many data points here. On the other hand, PPS does silly things all the time as any alignment, and his broad unsubstantiated defense of people that I find scummy doesn't jive with his usual bussing scum persona.

I guess I will Vote: Idplay for the time being. Simply because when in doubt, lynch a lurker. (WIDLAL is the new LALL).

vote: idplay I guess. He will be proddable again soon and then we possibly will get a replacement, but for now I can vote here

[Galzria]

L-2

[faust]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Mmh. I mean I could still go for Idplay. It is hard to tell which I like more. Idplay could be just lurking town, there are not many data points here. On the other hand, PPS does silly things all the time as any alignment, and his broad unsubstantiated defense of people that I find scummy doesn't jive with his usual bussing scum persona.

I guess I will Vote: Idplay for the time being. Simply because when in doubt, lynch a lurker. (WIDLAL is the new LALL).

vote: idplay I guess. He will be proddable again soon and then we possibly will get a replacement, but for now I can vote here

Didn't you explicitly call out Haddock and me as scumreads of yours just a little while ago? And now you're sheeping us?

[LaLight]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Mmh. I mean I could still go for Idplay. It is hard to tell which I like more. Idplay could be just lurking town, there are not many data points here. On the other hand, PPS does silly things all the time as any alignment, and his broad unsubstantiated defense of people that I find scummy doesn't jive with his usual bussing scum persona.

I guess I will Vote: Idplay for the time being. Simply because when in doubt, lynch a lurker. (WIDLAL is the new LALL).

vote: idplay I guess. He will be proddable again soon and then we possibly will get a replacement, but for now I can vote here

Didn't you explicitly call out Haddock and me as scumreads of yours just a little while ago? And now you're sheeping us?

I did not explicitly call out Haddock, quite the opposite. gkrieg told he wanted to vote Haddock and, by the way, never answered to me why. AND I am not sheeping

[LaLight]

this night I ate something really bad and I am so very sick. Sorry, I don't think I will be active today, I feel very badly

[faust]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Mmh. I mean I could still go for Idplay. It is hard to tell which I like more. Idplay could be just lurking town, there are not many data points here. On the other hand, PPS does silly things all the time as any alignment, and his broad unsubstantiated defense of people that I find scummy doesn't jive with his usual bussing scum persona.

I guess I will Vote: Idplay for the time being. Simply because when in doubt, lynch a lurker. (WIDLAL is the new LALL).

vote: idplay I guess. He will be proddable again soon and then we possibly will get a replacement, but for now I can vote here

Didn't you explicitly call out Haddock and me as scumreads of yours just a little while ago? And now you're sheeping us?

I did not explicitly call out Haddock, quite the opposite. gkrieg told he wanted to vote Haddock and, by the way, never answered to me why. AND I am not sheeping

You're right, I was thinking of a thing that Hydrad posted.

[pingpongsam]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Consistency is not a town trait

This

The corollary to this argument, for it to be successful, is that must be a scum trait, which it also is not.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh, did I reveal too much? After being badgered incessantly that I wasn’t revealing enough? Boo freaking hoo

Again this is not how a townie goes about this. You didn’t reveal too much, the fact that you have a qt means nothing to scum so there is zero reason to hide it. It all this info that doesn’t help scum at all but that you don’t want to reveal. Have you talked to your lover about weather or not they should claim in your qt?

[mcmcsalot]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

Don't like this.

If we believe faust is town with a protective role, which i am leaning towards, he also claimed to take no action last night. Which suggests thefe is some drawback or something we are not aware of. Never mind the fact that scum certainly have some method to override protection. Let's try not to take the protection too much for granted.

You are making my point for me. Likely Faust protection is limited in some way, right now the only argument for not outing be other lover is because then it makes it harder for Faust to protect the lover and prevent scum from getting a double kill. I keep arguing that it is worse to have Faust trying to protect an unconfirmed robz then trying to protect one of two lovers.

[faust]

I don’t see how outing the other lover is bad.

The only reason keeping the second a secret is the try to protect robz from getting night killed and if we put the second there is a 50/50 chance we protect one of the lover. But if the other lover doesn’t claim we have no clue if robz is telling the truth.

If the other lover does claim we have reason to use protection on the lovers and we can trust they are town or robz’s scum partner backing him up

Don't like this.

If we believe faust is town with a protective role, which i am leaning towards, he also claimed to take no action last night. Which suggests thefe is some drawback or something we are not aware of. Never mind the fact that scum certainly have some method to override protection. Let's try not to take the protection too much for granted.

You are making my point for me. Likely Faust protection is limited in some way, right now the only argument for not outing be other lover is because then it makes it harder for Faust to protect the lover and prevent scum from getting a double kill. I keep arguing that it is worse to have Faust trying to protect an unconfirmed robz then trying to protect one of two lovers.

Maybe you should take advice from the guy who actually knows what kind of protective role faust has in this then...

[mcmcsalot]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

[faust]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

Ugh this is what I keep getting and is not an answer if we say robz has to put his lover and no lover claims then boom we are lynching robz. So don’t use the “if we aren’t lynching” as an argument. Answer why robz lover should claim all of the reasons.

It appears to me the ONLY one is your ability to protect an robz is higher than your ability to protect robz + lover. And that you are willing to risk the fact that currently robz is confirmed to scum but unconfirmed to town and that if he is a lover scum has a very small pool of potential lover partners to shoot at.

[mcmcsalot]

Here is most of what has happened since the claim.

Robz wagoners: pps, efhw, idp, mcmc, lalight

PPS: moves to faust, pps agrees with my points about robz. PPS states no lover claim is indicative of robz lying.
Lalight: unvotes, moves to pps, lalight also argues about the sillyness of a robz flavor claim, moves to vote faust. moves to idontplay mainly because of his lurking.
efhw: unvotes (hopefully to make more in-game players to be on wagon) it's good to have her thoughts I would love her to vote robz and unvote if she still finds him scumy, vote me and invote if she thinks I am wrong, and for the most part probably stay off wagons unless town needs her and she supports the wagon.
Idp: has not posted since


Non-wagoners: Faust, Gkrieg, Galz, Haddock, Hydrad

Faust: still pushing idp, never liked robz wagon, swithces to pps, moves to idp in support of haddock
Gkrieg: botes idptg says he doesn't want to lynch robz today. Gkrieg changes to haddock. Wants to know whats scummy about pps
galz: votes pps in support of faust
Haddock: says my case on robz is from early day one (the beggining part is, it was updated at the end of day 1 when I thought he was still scummy and has been further updated as he has done nothing to convince me slightly of his towniness). Votes IDP.
Hydrad: says he didnt belive robz at first but the reaction afterwards leans him town. (I would be curious of why)

So where we are at it appears, myself, pps, and possibly lalight still all feel like robz lover should claim. Idp and efhw I am not sure about.

Faust/haddock/gkrieg are against robz lover claiming.

I would love to know galz’s opinion of the whole thing and would love hydrad to clarify a bit why he finds robz reaction towny because all I see is him giving us information that doesn’t help scum whatsoever ever (if his lover knows of him, that his lover and him have a qt) in bits and pieces only after being pressured when town!robz would intelligently know those things don’t help scum and would have stated them with his initial claim.

[faust]

Okay but seriously someone explain to me all of the reasons for robz’s lover to not claim. Because unless they are good it is ridiculous for us to let this go.

If we are not planning on lynching Robz, then outing his lover accomplishes nothing. Looking at the vote count, I don't see that Robz is in great danger of being lynched.

Ugh this is what I keep getting and is not an answer if we say robz has to put his lover and no lover claims then boom we are lynching robz. So don’t use the “if we aren’t lynching” as an argument. Answer why robz lover should claim all of the reasons.

It appears to me the ONLY one is your ability to protect an robz is higher than your ability to protect robz + lover. And that you are willing to risk the fact that currently robz is confirmed to scum but unconfirmed to town and that if he is a lover scum has a very small pool of potential lover partners to shoot at.

Ugh that was hard to parse. Maybe use some more punctuation.

Basically I think this comes down to I already believe Robz is town. I don't think the scenario you paint where noone claims lover is likely. I think Robz and his lover have the most information available to them and if they think it is best not to reveal the other one then that is good enough for me.

[faust]

mcmc, who besides Robz is scum in your opinion?

[Galzria]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

[mcmcsalot]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

[Galzria]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

I’m aware you posted, I included you in my recap of stuff people had been saying. Sorry I was curious about your thoughts on robz specifically...

[mcmcsalot]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

I keep asking for the reason and Faust keeps saying it’s because he finds robz townie which isn’t what I’m asking. I’m asking why a second lover claiming is bad taking into account the info it gives us and the protection scenarios/lover likelihood I keep mentioning.

[Galzria]

Mcmc, I've obviously posted since Robz claimed, yes? If I had any desire to force his lover to claim, I would've said so/voted him already. My silence should be indicative of my acceptance of his claim, which, for now is itself a good enough reason for Robz' lover not to claim. You act as if there isn't yet another person a protective PR might be choosing to protect at night (me). Outing the lover gives scum three targets to choose from, not two.

I’m aware you posted, I included you in my recap of stuff people had been saying. Sorry I was curious about your thoughts on robz specifically...

Sorry, I assumed that the below was directed at me:

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

If it was directed at faust, then nevermind my comment.

[faust]

Cool you can’t give a reason robz’s lover shouldn’t claim other than you find robz townie.

I have more town reads then I do scum reads at this point. A lot of my reads are currently wrapped around he fact that I am very confident robz is scum.

Incorrect.

I keep asking for the reason and Faust keeps saying it’s because he finds robz townie which isn’t what I’m asking. I’m asking why a second lover claiming is bad taking into account the info it gives us and the protection scenarios/lover likelihood I keep mentioning.

Because it makes more town death more likely. It's that simple. Robz and his lover know more about how bad it is to claim because they know their roles. I know more about how bad it is for them to claim because I know my (protective) PR. This is all I am going to spell out for you.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh I see, your post did come inbetween. My apologies for the confusion I should have quoted, it was directed at Faust.

Directed at galz, I see you are currently alone voting for pps. Faust and you went there but when haddock expressed interest in idp instead Faust quickly jumped here and was followed by lalight. I think this idp wagon is based solely on lurking which isn’t good, hydrad is on that wagon from long ago. What is your pps case and would you still want to lynch Faust? I definitely find him scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote count 2.mcmc

Robz888 (2): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Hydrad, Haddock, Faust, lalight
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
faust (1): pingpongsam
Haddock (1): gkrieg13
pingpongsam (1): Galzria

not voting (1): EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so I know I’m sort of beating an at least bloody and maimed horse at this point but it’s still irking me.

10 players alive. Assume 7 town, 3 scum

Lovers lynch, nk = 4 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Mislynch, nk = 5 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Also as galz pointed out he is a role that potentially needs protecting and if we lynch potential lover robz that clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

I still really strongly believe forcing robz lover to claim is the best thing to do.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

[pingpongsam]

I am very much in the exactly same line of thinking as mcmc. However, faust's level headed responses to his (as opposed to either ignoring or being outright inflammatory towards mine) questions has lessened my scum reads. The key failing of mine and mcmc's thinking is that it presumes Robz to be scum.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

[mcmcsalot]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

I mean it’s not going to push ads you because you think robz is town and that’s fine. But anyone on he fence about the robz claim and not wanting to lynch him because killing two towns is dangerous should be aware that we are in he same boat tomorrow at 5/3 or 4/3.

So I think forcing robz lover to claim even if that kills him in him and his lover in the night is worth it to see if robz is lying and no lover claims. Because if we lose two town or three by tomorrow it’s the same situation.

[faust]

clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

This is a nonsense argument. By the same argument, you might suggest that we lynch Galzria. Or anyone else really.

But I find robz scummy and he has an unconfirmed claim that came out at l-1 and has since had pieces added on which could have been included in the original claim. I find galz townie and he made an unprovoked, uncountered claim of the main character in he game with some specifications that make sense with he character. They are two very different things, as is protecting a random person. So no it’s not a nonsense argument as much as you want to claim that I’m stupid instead of actually countering my arguments.

Actually Galzria's claim was provoked by you.

I am not saying that all your arguments are bad. But this one will not convince anyone to lynch Robz who wasn't already on board.

Does my argument that we are in mylo if we mislynch lovers or someone else persuade you?

That is certainly something to keep in mind.

[faust]

It should be noted however that LyLo/MyLo considerations should account for EFHW. I mean, it is still possible that scum's win condition is "have 50% of players be scum", but it is reasonable to assume with that kind of role that they'd actually have to control all of town.

[gkrieg13]

There are 10 people. Assume 3 scum.
Outing the other lover barely helps scums chances of killing both lovers. As I said any protection is still 50/50, and scum goes from at worst a 25% guess of robz other lover, and if any of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum that 25% goes drastically up.

Going up from 25% to 50% is pretty drastic in my book.

I think you are not getting what I am saying.

Scum currently has at worst a 25% chance of hitting robz lover. They potentially have a 33%, 50% or 100% chance of knowing who robz lover is based on how many of Faust/galz/hydrad/haddock are scum.

If robz lover claims there is a 50% chance they hit the unprotected lover. (And this is all based off your claimed protection which wasn’t used night 1 which doesn’t need to be explained but is relevant).

Again if robz lover doesn’t claim we don’t know he’s town and if you are town and are planning on protecting him (wifom), you could be wasting protection on scum.

There are so many benefits to having the other lover claim I think it outweighs the slightly increased chance in the lovers dying.

Mcmcsalot is making sense here.  There is also a possibility that there are other protective roles other than faust.

[gkrieg13]

vote: IDPTG

Man you guys post a lot while I’m sleeping. Don’t really want to lynch Robz Today.

What about faust?

I would definitely lynch faust today.

[gkrieg13]

I think Haddock would be a better lynch though.

Haddock?

I'll have to go back and look, but he has been scummy.  I don't exactly remember for what right now.

[gkrieg13]

I would believe a lover claim from anyone right now.

Interesting.

[gkrieg13]

That no one is claiming is indicative of Robz lying. If faust claimed to be Robz' lover I think it reconciles with his also claim of be protective from a balance perspective but not necessarily from a claiming to be protective on D1 perspective. If I were protective but had this big achilles heel of causing a town death when dying I'd avoid claiming my protective ability probably altogether but definitely not on D1. However, there's nothing preventing one of the pair of lovers from being scum. So, if faust claims to be Robz' lover and to also be town can he also claim to know that Robz is town like Robz claims to know his lover is town? If not, would faust consider that dying and removing his protective role from the game is worth killing scum if Robz is, in fact, scum?

Definitely lovers fakeclaim is unlikely to be backed up by another scum.  They can claim that they don't want to out their partner because they both die, and it won't look very scummy.  It is also something I can definitely see Robz doing.

[gkrieg13]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED.

Why can’t you answer if your lover knows of your existence...this is so such a scummy part of the claim. I don’t get why everyone is fine leaving robz and lover claim with zero explaination, no supporting claim, this is ridiculous.

Mcmc is making a lot of sense.  Robz not realizing what information is scummy to withhold and what would normally be withheld if it were a real claim is a conspiracy theory I can hold on to.

[gkrieg13]

If Galz is scum he has mind controlled this day perfectly because as far as i am concerned it's either faust or Robz.

I don't think that is what Galz said.  It was gkrieg/faust.

[gkrieg13]

So robz hits l-1, as people are asking about he case, some supporting the lynch, some not. Then robz claims lover without any second claim, lots of people weighing in on it they believe him, if they don’t, most people unvote but of look no one is talking and creating an alternate wagon? It’s almost like scum is safe now and can rest...

Possibly some people who backed off are scum that know I'm telling the truth and it will look bad after my flip if they helped lynch me.

I do think you're town BTW, mcmc.

Haha, that's hilarious. I switched votes immediately because I expected a counterclaim and some analysis. Since we are not getting that I am perfectly fine lynching Robz. Go ahead and consider him +1 vote because if he goes to L-1 again I am going to hammer him.

You expected a counterclaim? I.e., someone saying, "No man, Robz isn't a Lover... I am!" That's a weird thing to expect.

I think it is obvious that PPS was expecting someone else to confirm the claim.

[gkrieg13]

Mcmc, I relented and clarified that the other person does know.

Agreeing with mcmc. Robz is refusing to answer if the other person even knows much less who it actually is.

Yep he is most likely buying time to decide if a partner will voluntarily back him up, or if he should claim they don’t know and try to convince us that way.

The other person knows, but thinks it's best for him not to out himself, so he's not confirming anything.

I see I missed that. You “relenting” though is still so much scummier than just confirming that info right away. It’s like you were feeling out maybe claiming that the other lover didn’t know and then decided that would look too scummy.

Also your response to the criticism of people wanting your lover to claim I is scummy. Everything is pulling teeth.

This is your third statement after saying you know your lover is town and that you don’t think you should answer if your lover knows of you.

I mean, you will know I was a Lover when I'm suddenly dead after the other person dies, you dolts.

This is totally a scum oriented mindset. A town lover who’s on says I am a town lover thinks “when I flip you know I’m a lover”. A scum who is faking thinks “guys when my other lover dies you will know I am a lover because i’ll flip to”.  Also I’ve never heard you call someone a dolt.

None of this feels like organic town!lover robz at l-1 about to cause the death of two townies.

I have no idea what the second part of your post is even saying.

As for the first part, I initially was resistant to say whether the other person knows because I wasn't sure I wanted to reveal whether we had a QT together, which is sort of an implication of saying he knows.

You don't have to have a QT together to know the other lover. 

vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Isn't IDPTG also scummy in every game he plays?

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Interesting.  This has a lot of self-awareness that I think is more likely to come from scum than town.

[gkrieg13]

Dunno what to post so I'm just kinda posting.

But I believe robzzz I guess. I didn't at the start of his claim 100% but the whole reaction afterwards leans town on me.

I'm still fine with IDPTG I guess but weird that he hasn't said anything for a while now.

What about his responses has been townie?

[gkrieg13]

this night I ate something really bad and I am so very sick. Sorry, I don't think I will be active today, I feel very badly

Feel better!

[gkrieg13]

Oh, did I reveal too much? After being badgered incessantly that I wasn’t revealing enough? Boo freaking hoo

Again this is not how a townie goes about this. You didn’t reveal too much, the fact that you have a qt means nothing to scum so there is zero reason to hide it. It all this info that doesn’t help scum at all but that you don’t want to reveal. Have you talked to your lover about weather or not they should claim in your qt?

I agree a lot with Mcmc here.

[gkrieg13]

Is it possible for Robz to be a scum!lover and his partner be town?

[gkrieg13]

Okay so I know I’m sort of beating an at least bloody and maimed horse at this point but it’s still irking me.

10 players alive. Assume 7 town, 3 scum

Lovers lynch, nk = 4 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Mislynch, nk = 5 town, 3 scum. Mylo

Also as galz pointed out he is a role that potentially needs protecting and if we lynch potential lover robz that clears Faust up from possibly wasting protection on scum.

I still really strongly believe forcing robz lover to claim is the best thing to do.

Did we start this game with 12 people?  It seems like poor design to me if we get to MYLO on D3 of a game with only two factions.

[gkrieg13]

It should be noted however that LyLo/MyLo considerations should account for EFHW. I mean, it is still possible that scum's win condition is "have 50% of players be scum", but it is reasonable to assume with that kind of role that they'd actually have to control all of town.

Good point here.

[Galzria]

Oh I see, your post did come inbetween. My apologies for the confusion I should have quoted, it was directed at Faust.

Directed at galz, I see you are currently alone voting for pps. Faust and you went there but when haddock expressed interest in idp instead Faust quickly jumped here and was followed by lalight. I think this idp wagon is based solely on lurking which isn’t good, hydrad is on that wagon from long ago. What is your pps case and would you still want to lynch Faust? I definitely find him scummy.

Here's where I'm at:

From D1 through most of D2, I've had a null-ish to scum-ish read on you. The way you've been approaching the Robz situation however has definitely flipped that to a null-ish to town-ish read on you. If Robz is town and you are scum, this isn't outside the realm of how you might act, but I find the tone and consistency MORE in line with an unknown Robz alignment and you as town.

In regards to Faust, almost everything he posts in terms of his "methods", I've very strongly disagreed with. I've disagreed with his approach, his responses, his actions, his claim - everything. I find his play to be asinine for the sake of being asinine. Because of this, I keep being drawn back to wanting to lynch him. But somehow he keeps drawing the same conclusions that I draw, despite our methods of approach being drastically different. And this consistently gives me pause. I'm not convinced that I honestly think he's scum - at times I feel like I want him lynched simply because I don't like his style of play this game (in contrast, he and I often disagree, but I don't generally MIND his approach. Usually it's his approach I like, but I disagree with the conclusions he draws. Here it's the opposite.)

On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary.

As far as Gkrieg goes, I would still be ok with his lynch, but I think we can do better. I am almost 100% null on him at this point. The only content he's made has been stream of conscience posts upon returning - something that's very easy to do as scum, but also well within a standard town meta if you've been MIA for awhile.

All of this puts us at the following:

Don't care to lynch at this point in time:
Galz (duh), Mcmc, Robz, and.... probably Faust (4).

That leaves 6 players:
Hydrad, Haddock, PPS, LaLight, Gkrieg, IDPTG

Of those six, LaLight has, thusfar today, been the towniest. He's not exactly a town read, but I don't like the idea of lynching him.

I also don't like the IDPTG lynch for a number of reasons:
- It's more or less a LALL (sorry faust, WIDLAL is not a thing) lynch, which doesn't make it good.
- The base case, originally made by faust, was based on a bunch of stated reads that more or less came across as arbitrary. That is, he provided no backbone for any of them, and simply concluded that based on said reads, IDPTG must be scum.
- I don't like how quickly this wagon became a thing following Robz wagon dissipating. The fact that 3/4 of the wagon (Hydrad, Haddock, LaLight) are in the place I think scum most likely exists also gives me pause, even though it's possible they are all town themselves and the scum team could be PPS/IDPTG/Gkrieg (I have strong reasons to believe that the scum team are either 2 or 3, but not 4 members strong).

PPS is a much stronger lynch choice however, and when I have a moment, I'll go back and outline exactly why. End of the day though, there's actually a decent case on him, especially if you look at his play from a scum perspective (which, incidentally, would place a big town flag on Gkrieg, a lesser one on Faust, and a decent one on Robz).

[Robz888]

The only thing I dislike about the PPS lynch is that he's sort of infuriating me, and I learned from a game or two ago that me being infuriated at PPS is a sign of him being town.

[Galzria]

The only thing I dislike about the PPS lynch is that he's sort of infuriating me, and I learned from a game or two ago that me being infuriated at PPS is a sign of him being town.

This is noted, but does not deter my desire to lynch PPS in any meaningful way.

[pingpongsam]

Is it possible for Robz to be a scum!lover and his partner be town?

Yes, been saying that for awhile.

[Galzria]

Is it possible for Robz to be a scum!lover and his partner be town?

Yes, been saying that for awhile.

Possible, sure. But as Robz has indicated they have a QT together, then one must assume that his lover either knows this to be untrue, Robz is town and his lover scum, or has considered the possibility of this truth and still deemed it not a worthwhile consideration.

[faust]

You don't have to have a QT together to know the other lover. 

vote: Robz

Is that a reason to vote for Robz?

[faust]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Isn't IDPTG also scummy in every game he plays?

Isn't that a really stupid rhethorical question? Could you maybe say what you actually think instead of just alluding?

[faust]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Interesting.  This has a lot of self-awareness that I think is more likely to come from scum than town.

I don't know. It's a defense. Not a good one, but if you post a defense, self-awareness is required.

[faust]

Is it possible for Robz to be a scum!lover and his partner be town?

No.

That is, if Robz is not confirmed town to their lover, then they should ebsolutely 100% claim.

[faust]

The only thing I dislike about the PPS lynch is that he's sort of infuriating me, and I learned from a game or two ago that me being infuriated at PPS is a sign of him being town.

I get that.

[faust]

That recent stream of consciousness from gkrieg had a lot of bad reasoning in it.

[gkrieg13]

PPS is scummy in every game he plays. I'd go there for lacl of something better, tbh, cos i have never been able to read him.
Would probably prefer idtpg though?
vote: idptg

Isn't IDPTG also scummy in every game he plays?

Isn't that a really stupid rhethorical question? Could you maybe say what you actually think instead of just alluding?

I always find IDPTG scummy, so saying PPS is scummy in every game is not a good reason for not voting him if you like the case on him and he is scummy.  Especially when he votes for IDPTG, someone who is often scumread when he is town.

[gkrieg13]

You don't have to have a QT together to know the other lover. 

vote: Robz

Is that a reason to vote for Robz?

No, it was everything I said previous to it, was just putting it in what I thought was going to be my last post.

[gkrieg13]

Sorry guys, had a paper deadline today.  What is scummy about PPS?

What isn't?

Consistency. The only anomaly was the gkrieg vote which was still consistent with townreading Galz. Otherwise, I’m pretty much convinced faust and/or Robz are scum and have been playing to that end. I am also feeling like if Robz is, indeed, a lover, the other person is faust but the fact that he won’t own it strikes me as scummy af. I made a pretty decent analysis of that hypothesis and it was summarily ignored.

Interesting.  This has a lot of self-awareness that I think is more likely to come from scum than town.

I don't know. It's a defense. Not a good one, but if you post a defense, self-awareness is required.

But it isn't really a defense.  It was asking what essentially was townie about PPS, which I think town is less likely to know about themselves.

[gkrieg13]

That recent stream of consciousness from gkrieg had a lot of bad reasoning in it.

Anything more than what you were just pointing out?

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.5

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot, gkrieg13
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Hydrad, Haddock, faust, Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): Robz888
faust (1): pingpongsam
pingpongsam (1): Galzria

not voting (1): EFHW

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

[Robz888]

Still have a strong scum read on gkrieg.

[pingpongsam]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

[Galzria]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Hey everyone. Sorry about that. I got a new phone and got locked out of a bunch of stuff, including this. Catching up soon

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Request prod on Idplay if people don't want to vote there, maybe I can prod him to death.

Just got to this bit. I love this strategy. I wish it worked.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

FWIW, I think mcmc is town-y so far. Somewhere on page twenty-something at the moment. Low 20s.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Not sure how I feel about the Robz claim. I've never played in a game with Lovers before and, given that this is closed and could be a fake claim, they increase the odds on prematurely ending games (like Space's D4 Suicidal role in Cancer Mafia). My current thought is that we either lynch now or never unless we end up with strong indications that it's likely not to be a town-town pairing. I admit I haven't thought through it a ton though.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

I agree with this.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I am a town Lover, my death imperils another member of the town.

Does your Lover know this?

I don't think I'm going to answer this.

THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED.

Why can’t you answer if your lover knows of your existence...this is so such a scummy part of the claim. I don’t get why everyone is fine leaving robz and lover claim with zero explaination, no supporting claim, this is ridiculous.

Mcmc is making a lot of sense.  Robz not realizing what information is scummy to withhold and what would normally be withheld if it were a real claim is a conspiracy theory I can hold on to.

I kinda like this too. Not a huge fan of conspiracy theories though.

[pingpongsam]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

Yeah, I think it does. Either they are a lover pair and the same alignment and thus very unlikely to be scum or they are scum partners with a fakeclaim. The behavior suggests some degree of partnering. That behavior was large factor in my scum read. Having a rationale for giving them a town read instead seems a worthwhile thing fto make public because otherwise I get mislynched for opportunistically jumping from the tunnel to another candidate with no reasoning because, you know, being inconsistent would just not be scummy at all, right?

[Hydrad]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

Yeah, I think it does. Either they are a lover pair and the same alignment and thus very unlikely to be scum or they are scum partners with a fakeclaim. The behavior suggests some degree of partnering. That behavior was large factor in my scum read. Having a rationale for giving them a town read instead seems a worthwhile thing fto make public because otherwise I get mislynched for opportunistically jumping from the tunnel to another candidate with no reasoning because, you know, being inconsistent would just not be scummy at all, right?

Ok this makes me feel better about you. I wasn't actually following along fully why you were publicly speculating it. While I'm not sure if it was the right call still I think you are town.

[EFHW]

vote: faust
vote: Robz
vote: pps

[LaLight]

vote: faust
vote: Robz
vote: pps

these are your scumreads? vote pps again if yes

[LaLight]

IDPTG is here and looks townie. vote: faust.

[pingpongsam]

Unvote, a case forthcoming on someone not faust or Robz.

[EFHW]

vote: pps

[Haddock]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

Yeah, I think it does. Either they are a lover pair and the same alignment and thus very unlikely to be scum or they are scum partners with a fakeclaim. The behavior suggests some degree of partnering. That behavior was large factor in my scum read. Having a rationale for giving them a town read instead seems a worthwhile thing fto make public because otherwise I get mislynched for opportunistically jumping from the tunnel to another candidate with no reasoning because, you know, being inconsistent would just not be scummy at all, right?

Ok this makes me feel better about you. I wasn't actually following along fully why you were publicly speculating it. While I'm not sure if it was the right call still I think you are town.

I have been townreading Hydrad.
But this reads really forced and bizarre. And unHydrad.

I definitely still don't want to vote there today but wanted to mention it.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

Yeah, I think it does. Either they are a lover pair and the same alignment and thus very unlikely to be scum or they are scum partners with a fakeclaim. The behavior suggests some degree of partnering. That behavior was large factor in my scum read. Having a rationale for giving them a town read instead seems a worthwhile thing fto make public because otherwise I get mislynched for opportunistically jumping from the tunnel to another candidate with no reasoning because, you know, being inconsistent would just not be scummy at all, right?

Ok this makes me feel better about you. I wasn't actually following along fully why you were publicly speculating it. While I'm not sure if it was the right call still I think you are town.

I have been townreading Hydrad.
But this reads really forced and bizarre. And unHydrad.

I definitely still don't want to vote there today but wanted to mention it.

It seems like normal!Hydrad to me, but I get what you're saying about it seeming forced.

[faust]

IDPTG is here and looks townie. vote: faust.

How does he look townie from those 6 posts?

[faust]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

[LaLight]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

This in particular is townie. All the time people say "I'm not a terrible lynch", they're town

[LaLight]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

This in particular is townie. All the time people say "I'm not a terrible lynch", they're town

I remember saying this myself in some games I was town in looking onto myself from others' perspective. I would withhold saying this if I'm scum I think

[IDontPlayThisGame]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

Your case on me this game is even weaker than usual.

[Hydrad]

I think faust and Robz are lovers. I'm coming around to the idea they both know each other to be town which explains a lack of co-claim(?) (regardless if the other one is faust). I was all about lynching Robz or faust before the lover claim. After really situating on that claim and the implications I'm willing to look elsewhere today. I thought we got mod-killed after two prods so is the IDP lynch worthwhile unless we beat the prod-kill?

Does it in any way help to publicly speculate? If the other lover wanted to claim, they would. Could that be any more clear at this point?

Yeah, I think it does. Either they are a lover pair and the same alignment and thus very unlikely to be scum or they are scum partners with a fakeclaim. The behavior suggests some degree of partnering. That behavior was large factor in my scum read. Having a rationale for giving them a town read instead seems a worthwhile thing fto make public because otherwise I get mislynched for opportunistically jumping from the tunnel to another candidate with no reasoning because, you know, being inconsistent would just not be scummy at all, right?

Ok this makes me feel better about you. I wasn't actually following along fully why you were publicly speculating it. While I'm not sure if it was the right call still I think you are town.

I have been townreading Hydrad.
But this reads really forced and bizarre. And unHydrad.

I definitely still don't want to vote there today but wanted to mention it.

wow good eye. You are totally correct on that post. It was forced.

I was busy for a bit but knew I needed to post something so I basically forced myself to try to post something that was useful.

[Hydrad]

Vote: gkrieg

you know. I didn't like it when it first appeared. but I feel like I'm running out of people I want to vote.

[faust]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

Your case on me this game is even weaker than usual.

Your play this game is even weaker than usual.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

Your case on me this game is even weaker than usual.

Your play this game is even weaker than usual.

So weaker play makes your case less compelling?

[faust]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

Your case on me this game is even weaker than usual.

Your play this game is even weaker than usual.

So weaker play makes your case less compelling?

If there are no posts, there is not much to find you scummy for. So of course a case would look more barebones than one on an active player.

[faust]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

This in particular is townie. All the time people say "I'm not a terrible lynch", they're town

I remember saying this myself in some games I was town in looking onto myself from others' perspective. I would withhold saying this if I'm scum I think

It is anti-town. It is announcing to scum that you don't have an important PR without giving town any useful information. It is always better to just claim than say something like this.

[LaLight]

So now I had a dream about this game. Scums were Eevee and some guy with a nickname “smm”. Also everyone had really bright colourful fonts

[LaLight]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

This in particular is townie. All the time people say "I'm not a terrible lynch", they're town

I remember saying this myself in some games I was town in looking onto myself from others' perspective. I would withhold saying this if I'm scum I think

It is anti-town. It is announcing to scum that you don't have an important PR without giving town any useful information. It is always better to just claim than say something like this.

I know it is antitown. I don’t use it now, but I used it to apologize for a bad play on my part I didn’t geel comfortable about

[Haddock]

Suddenly I have time again this weekend and am aware that deadline is tomorrow and I'm likely not to be around for it.
I'm not deadset on lynching IDPTG, but frankly I'm yet to see anything better.
I don't want to lynch Robz today, or faust.

I could lynch Lalight maybe maybe?  But, nyeh.  He's looking townier lately.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.6

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot, gkrieg13
IDontPlayThisGame (2): Haddock, faust
gkrieg13 (2): Robz888, Hydrad
faust (1): Lalight
pingpongsam (2): Galzria, EFHW

Not Voting (1): pingpongsam

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

That is in ~25 hours.

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[Galzria]

I think PPS is a by far, the best lynch for today. There was interest for the lynch earlier, but when the opportunity to push it arose, that interest dissipated into thin air.

His self awareness when it's come to his reads has been a particularly strong scum tell as well. The way he was on Gkrieg earlier in D2 while maintaining his push for faust with the whole line of "oh, I would totally vote faust, but his lynch just seems too easy" and "I've been pushing the faust case all game" felt extremely setup. The fact that he had never even voted for faust until I called him out, plus the fact that he literally gave faust s "big town read" earlier in the game felt like he was trying to maintain control while disassociating himself with faust's potential lynch.

Now that's not at all to say that I find faust townie as a result here. The fact that it was so difficult to get PPS to vote there, coupled with the fact that faust was entirely willing to vote PPS (and did) until suddenly there was other interest in the PPS wagon reads very much as classic partner play. However, it's far more likely here to have scum!PPS & town!Faust than the other way around, and while they could be scum together lynching PPS simply makes more sense than lynching faust.

All of that is moot however as EFHW, LaLight (who I'm leaning townie on) and I seem to be the only ones interested in a PPS lynch. Note that Hydrad has come in to call Hydrad townie in the absence of much activity, which if PPS is in fact scum, is a nice way to try and move any potential momentum against PPS without actively engaging.

So unless ya'll wanna come around and lynch scum here, I'm kinda at a loss for what to do.

[gkrieg13]

So now I had a dream about this game. Scums were Eevee and some guy with a nickname “smm”. Also everyone had really bright colourful fonts

I had a dream that Robz was scum last night. I don’t think I’ve ever had a mafia dream before. 

[gkrieg13]

Just looking at Haddocks signature and wow is he scum in RMMs a lot (that has nothing to do with this game)

[gkrieg13]

PPS is the least enticing of the wagons for me. Would rather lynch Robz or faust or IDPTG.

[faust]

Vote: PPS

[Haddock]

I think PPS is a by far, the best lynch for today. There was interest for the lynch earlier, but when the opportunity to push it arose, that interest dissipated into thin air.

His self awareness when it's come to his reads has been a particularly strong scum tell as well. The way he was on Gkrieg earlier in D2 while maintaining his push for faust with the whole line of "oh, I would totally vote faust, but his lynch just seems too easy" and "I've been pushing the faust case all game" felt extremely setup. The fact that he had never even voted for faust until I called him out, plus the fact that he literally gave faust s "big town read" earlier in the game felt like he was trying to maintain control while disassociating himself with faust's potential lynch.

Now that's not at all to say that I find faust townie as a result here. The fact that it was so difficult to get PPS to vote there, coupled with the fact that faust was entirely willing to vote PPS (and did) until suddenly there was other interest in the PPS wagon reads very much as classic partner play. However, it's far more likely here to have scum!PPS & town!Faust than the other way around, and while they could be scum together lynching PPS simply makes more sense than lynching faust.

All of that is moot however as EFHW, LaLight (who I'm leaning townie on) and I seem to be the only ones interested in a PPS lynch. Note that Hydrad has come in to call Hydrad townie in the absence of much activity, which if PPS is in fact scum, is a nice way to try and move any potential momentum against PPS without actively engaging.

So unless ya'll wanna come around and lynch scum here, I'm kinda at a loss for what to do.

Yeah I'm cool with that.

vote: PPS

[Robz888]

Vote: PPS

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 2.7

Robz888 (4): IDontPlayThisGame, McMcsalot, gkrieg13, EFHW
gkrieg13 (1): Hydrad
faust (1): Lalight
pingpongsam (4): Galzria, Robz888, Haddock, faust

Not Voting (1): pingpongsam

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends Monday, July 16, 2018, 10:30:00 am

That is in ~22 hours.

[faust]

@Hydrad, LaLight: Notice that Robz is at L-2 and if you vote him, I am pretty sure PPS will hammer.

@EFHW: Would you consider unvoting? I'd feel safer letting you decide the hammer.

[pingpongsam]

I’m the creature, a town one shot babysitter.

[faust]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

[Galzria]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

If it's true, and Robz' claim is true, then there's also a potential for a scum triple kill at night built into the game.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

In trying to make sure it was still D2, I saw this out of order. I'm not a terrible lynch, but I'm not self-voting.

This in particular is scummy.

Your case on me this game is even weaker than usual.

Your play this game is even weaker than usual.

So weaker play makes your case less compelling?

If there are no posts, there is not much to find you scummy for. So of course a case would look more barebones than one on an active player.

So it's not weak play, it's lack of play.

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

If it's true, and Robz' claim is true, then there's also a potential for a scum triple kill at night built into the game.

Which seems incredibly swingy. I'm not sure if that would exist.

[Galzria]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

If it's true, and Robz' claim is true, then there's also a potential for a scum triple kill at night built into the game.

To finish the thought - I find that slightly more unlikely than not, even if it would take multiple unfortunate collisions to occur for that to happen.

[Galzria]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

If it's true, and Robz' claim is true, then there's also a potential for a scum triple kill at night built into the game.

To finish the thought - I find that slightly more unlikely than not, even if it would take multiple unfortunate collisions to occur for that to happen.

Granted, if either Robz or his Lover are scum, this effect would be negated by the death of one scum in the chain rather than all three town.

It still feels like too much potential for death in a single night. We started with 12 people - assuming everything collided, we could've had 8 left at the start of D2. Even if the lovers are scum/town, which might be more balanced, to open D2 of a 12 player game at 8 players just feels really harsh.

[faust]

Hey Idplay, did you ever clarify your stance on Robz?

[Galzria]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

If it's true, and Robz' claim is true, then there's also a potential for a scum triple kill at night built into the game.

To finish the thought - I find that slightly more unlikely than not, even if it would take multiple unfortunate collisions to occur for that to happen.

Granted, if either Robz or his Lover are scum, this effect would be negated by the death of one scum in the chain rather than all three town.

It still feels like too much potential for death in a single night. We started with 12 people - assuming everything collided, we could've had 8 left at the start of D2. Even if the lovers are scum/town, which might be more balanced, to open D2 of a 12 player game at 8 players just feels really harsh.

And that's assuming that there are no other methods for people to die at night.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Hey Idplay, did you ever clarify your stance on Robz?

I liked something about the vote on him when I joined and the way the Lover claim went down hasn't done anything to convince me he's town. As I stated, I think a claim like that needs to be sorted out sooner rather than later.

And Galz, I don't think the collision is unlikely as you think.

[pingpongsam]

That claim doesn't really sway me in any way. It's a role that can exist. It's a role that may be a fakeclaim. It's a role that has diminished value once scum knows that it exists, so I would like to know the reasoning for the claim.

Reason for claim is L-2 with coordination underway to finish the mislynch on a weekend when the deadline is tomorrow.

It should be noted my role can be used to kill scum just as well as town while obviously to just protect town with no killing at all (preferably preventing a NK).

faust, I didn't know you needed to be swayed. I thought my lynch was "least enticing".

[EFHW]

unvote

[pingpongsam]

I promised a case so here we go. I decided to picka  person and make a scum lens read of them and see how it worked out. I deliberately removed faust, Robz, and mcmc. faust and Robz need no further belaboring on my part and mcmc's reads have pretty much been my own so nothing to really discover from my vantage point, there. IDP was out because he doesn't have anything to parse. This leaves Galz, LaLight, Haddock, Hydrad, and gkrieg. I went ahead and eliminated Hydrad because he is already town and Haddock because he's entirely too easy to paint as scum regardless of circumstance. So, Galzria, LaLight, gkrieg. Galzria is too easy, as well. Also, he will argue out of it regardless. between the two remaining I felt from what I recall before the reread that LaLight was more likely to give interesting analysis because gkrieg has been more of a reaction due to some absences.

Right off the bat he doesn't want to treat the non-counter claimed Samurai Jack character as town. Knowing my own role and the relationship my flavor has to SJ, I strongly believe SJ would be a town character. Note I am not saying Galzria must be SJ. SJ could actually be a fakeclaim but that doesn't seem very fun from a design standpoint, so for D1, Galz=SJ=Town. Also, considering I've opted to consider Robz/faust as town I see him in the same breath painting faust as potential scum right out of the gate, here as well. This is especially suspicious behavior because he ends the post by staying on Hydrad for having a bad early claim. You know, the one about not having an honest flip in the game that promises alignment antics? I mean, does Hydrad go this big and bold D1? Maybe with coaching? He's no ashersky, that's for sure. So, all in all LaLight's initial posting is about spreading ugly on several players at once and keeping a safe vote on the record.

Oh, look, the next several post from LaLight's interactions with faust start to conclude that maybe faust has a role such as Jester that would warrant trying to get killed. Apparently I was not at all alone in my own analysis of his behavior to that end. Never mind for this purpose that this consideration is supposed to be damning evidence against me now. If it's damning for me then it should be damning for LaLight as well.

Game gets slow, time to shake things up and throw a vote on someone new, someone not in the spotlight but certainly a vote cast with no case whatsoever. Let's see what everybody thinks if we vote mcmc? WEll, he's asked to qulaify that vote and it's the expected response. Just looking for traction, here. When elsewise lynches are broguth for consideration LaLight wants no part of this. He's rather lynch a lurker cause you know, scum loves to avoid controlling the game and would rather stay safe in the shadows with town having multiple claims already on the table for them to coordinate with and because you know lurking never gets you lynched. Also, he maintains Hydrad as a potential lynch, almost as if he wants the consternation a dishonest flip would bring to the game.

All of this activity is enough to irk faust into voting LaLight. LaLight immediately OMGus votes him right back. Now, faust may be crusty and curmudgeonly but he is not rash nor shortsighted. At this point I think we may have a scum scent from LaLight because the reaction from LaLight is properly counter to his entire narrative up until this point. Now, LaLight is going to paint faust as scum and I can get on with it at this point in the game because faust is acting out of character. As I posited before I think htere is an explanation for that but heretofore this explanation is not available to myself nor LaLight so it's not a terribly great case that he's after faust, yet... I will note that at this point I noted that I was more enthralled with faust's counterpoints to LaLaight than vice versa. LaLight is so hopped up on his new crusade he can't even see I am siding with faust.

LaLigth admits he does not like the EFHW wagon (as I had already stated myself). End Act One.

Act two opens with LaLight versus faust continuing unabated and LaLight has some decent points against faust. I mean, they are big ole WIFOM points and for the purposes of this exercise they are just smear jobs on faust. To be honest, though. I'm getting convinced versus faust all over again because LALight's points are well reasoned, sublime, and indicative of faust's scum meta. That LaLight was immediately unopposed to race claiming sits pretty townish to me. Yeah, it's WIFOM, especially if he has a mod-prepared fake claim. Damn, now I am seeing where LaLight and I seem to be seeing eye to eye on several things. This read was intended to paint him as scum regardless but it's not working. Maybe if I were scum it would be easier to bend this shit but I don't rightly have a motivation to see scum at will in this game.

He gets back to tunneling faust. Tunneling, it's an interesting thing. Scum generally should avoid doing such a thing because it limits their options. Tunneling is only worthwhile to distract from another plan in motion when you are scum. Tunneling is a towny trait because town keeps getting a bell rung. Tunneling is hard to fake as scum. Yes, it can be faked but this LaLight tunneling doesn't look contrived at all. It doesn't mean faust is scum but it doesn't look like LaLight is scum, either.

Shit guys, I can't do this, I keep reading and just getting confirmed town reads on LaLight. His repeat looping EFHW in for her feedback is extremely pro-town. While I won't chase it out today, he has reminded that I was never so off base to suspect faust. I was shamed into thinking that. He seems to have some suspicions on gkrieg. If I'm not already dead or the thread ended by the mod when I hit Post maybe I can try to do this on gkrieg.

[Robz888]

I would still rather lynch gkrieg than PPS, but I am fine with PPS if need be, so I'm keeping my vote there.

[pingpongsam]

I’ll park a Vote: gkrieg
I’ll be around for deadline but only within an hour or so, I may not be able to get a read in.

I’ll say I think I am a bad lynch. I don’t care about that earlier analysis about townies saying they aren’t bad lynches. My role makes me a bad lynch. If faust and Robz are, in fact, town like I suspect they may be then I’m a godawful lynch because this is going to be great leverage against them. Furthermore, I can protect town or kill scum if my role is applied correctly. I can see why one might not trust me to use it correctly and that my role is potentially a liability to town as well. I feel like my role is pretty critical to the setup and removing me from it unused will go badly for town.

[Hydrad]

I'm going to be around near deadline but will have to go a couple hours before. probably around 7am forum time is the latest I can go. (4 hours before deadline

I don't want to lynch PPS

[gkrieg13]

I won’t be awake for the deadline.

[gkrieg13]

Im Happy with where my vote is, but will look before I go to sleep tonight to see if I need to change it around.

[EFHW]

vote: pps
Unvote

[EFHW]

vote: pps

[Hydrad]

I'm sorry EFHW. I'm just not seeing it.

[Galzria]

I'm sorry EFHW. I'm just not seeing it.

It's the only lynch that's happening.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Still prefer Robz. But intent to hammer, I guess.

[mcmcsalot]

Ugh I’m very unhappy with the pps lynch. I don’t know much and have no scum read on gkrieg and would such rather lynch robz or faust

[IDontPlayThisGame]

vote: pps

[faust]

Well I guess that settles it then. Strange shift by Idplay here.

[Galzria]

If PPS is scum, the Robz wagon obviously a good place to look for more scum.

If PPS is town, IDPTG is likely town. Unless all scum are oddly on Robz, the IDPTG & PPS wagon are essentially made up of the same people - so scum here are equally willing to vote IDPTG as PPS.

[faust]

If PPS is town, IDPTG is likely town. Unless all scum are oddly on Robz, the IDPTG & PPS wagon are essentially made up of the same people - so scum here are equally willing to vote IDPTG as PPS.

That's is an interesting observation... yet I hope it will not become relevant.

[Hydrad]

Well I'm going to bed soon. I don't really want to lynch PPS tho.

[Hydrad]

wait. was IDPTG the hammer?

I looked at this a bit ago and thought it was just l-2 or l-1.

dunno how I missed that.

[iguanaiguana]

Day Two Final Vote Count

Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): Hydrad, pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
pingpongsam (6): Galzria, Robz888, Haddock, faust, EFHW, IDontPlayThisGame

With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

Thread locked!

[iguanaiguana]

pingpongsam was the creature, a good-aligned beast and a one-shot babysitter.

Night two starts now and lasts until Wednesday, July 18, 2018, 07:00:00 am Night actions are due by Tuesday, July 17, 2018, 11:00:00 pm

[iguanaiguana]

No one died at night!


Day 3 Starts now!

Vote count 3.0

not voting (10):  faust, Hydrad, McMcsalot, IDontPlayThisGame, Lalight, EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Haddock, Robz888

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Wednesday, July 25, 2018, 06:00:00 am

Thread unlocked!

[faust]

Curious.

I am not responsible for the missing kill.

[faust]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

[LaLight]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why do we exactly? It's not LyLo yet

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

[Hydrad]

just going to bed right now. I'm fine with claiming today.

[Hydrad]

although quick thought. would claiming include items?

[LaLight]

I am clueless about who might be scum, which almost always indicates that there's some really high-level team. Maybe Galz is scum after all?

[Hydrad]

I've got a couple thoughts of who I think it is.

but now for real. going to bed.

[faust]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why do we exactly? It's not LyLo yet

It is possibly MyLo if we assume Robz is town. We mislynch -> scum kills Robz + lover -> 6 alive, possibly 3 scum. (modulo EFHW who would still be around to potentially prevent scum from winning, but we do not know scum's win condition) We also do not actually know the number of scums and with alignment changing this could easily be 4.

[faust]

although quick thought. would claiming include items?

For sure.

[faust]

I am clueless about who might be scum, which almost always indicates that there's some really high-level team. Maybe Galz is scum after all?

Nice framing you got going there.

[faust]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

[LaLight]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why do we exactly? It's not LyLo yet

It is possibly MyLo if we assume Robz is town. We mislynch -> scum kills Robz + lover -> 6 alive, possibly 3 scum. (modulo EFHW who would still be around to potentially prevent scum from winning, but we do not know scum's win condition) We also do not actually know the number of scums and with alignment changing this could easily be 4.

oh right. But I think 4 scum is too OP for 12 players, but I forgot about lovers

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

[LaLight]

you need one more post on forums to get this year's number of posts!

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

Also also, there is not only one scum. Even if pps was scum, it wouldn't change the fact you can be scum as well.

[LaLight]

I am clueless about who might be scum, which almost always indicates that there's some really high-level team. Maybe Galz is scum after all?

Nice framing you got going there.

You seem to be almost the only one trying to put shade on me. As I remember, when I am town and you or gkrieg are scumreading me, this usually means you're scum, because you both can read me very well. I feel the same now

[faust]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

[LaLight]

You can call this all bias, but we'll never know until we lynch you. I can't recognize any town stuff you did this game, even when I reread trying to imagine I am just a spectator. This is why I will return to vote: faust and hope someone else will back me up this time.

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

[faust]

You can call this all bias, but we'll never know until we lynch you. I can't recognize any town stuff you did this game, even when I reread trying to imagine I am just a spectator. This is why I will return to vote: faust and hope someone else will back me up this time.

- what did I do that was scummy?
- what do you think about the claim I made right at the start of this day?
- if I am scum, who makes sense as my scumpartner?

[faust]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

But after the flip you would already know that PPS was town... so when did you think that he was scum, exactly?

[LaLight]

You can call this all bias, but we'll never know until we lynch you. I can't recognize any town stuff you did this game, even when I reread trying to imagine I am just a spectator. This is why I will return to vote: faust and hope someone else will back me up this time.

- what did I do that was scummy?
- what do you think about the claim I made right at the start of this day?
- if I am scum, who makes sense as my scumpartner?

Well, nothing really changed from before, so mcmc can come and call this all terrible reasoning, but here we are. I still think your claim of a protective role was strange and unfaust-ish. I think this is weird that you're still alive claimed a protective role and, again, being faust. All the last times I remember if you're alive in the beginning of D3, you're scum. And yeah, WIFOM of course, but it did work earlier, though no one lynched you then and you won. Also, you're really almost the only one scumreading me and this means you think I am an easy mislynch, as I already have mentioned.

I don't think you should've done it actually, I'd look at the reactions of people if I were town. No claiming is good before the reaction onto the event. It's like if I am Tracker I start the day with I saw Hydrad targeting gkrieg (this is not the case). Why would I do this?

Actually I think that your partners are some people from the subset [gkrieg/mcmc/Robz]. Maybe Galz, but he tunneled you quite effectively, which of course can be a good play. I don't know. The idea of you/gkrieg/mcmc/X? team is quite settling in my head.

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

When I was reading from his claim to the flip.
I entered the forum, clicked a little "new" button near the thread, and it automatically put me onto the first of unread messages in the thread (page 30 if I am not mistaken). I was reading onward and saw pps' claim. I thought "alright, this guy is scum". Then I was reading forward and then I saw the flip of town!pps. This is exactly what happened and you're trying to do something strange here
I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

But after the flip you would already know that PPS was town... so when did you think that he was scum, exactly?

[LaLight]

ugh

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

But after the flip you would already know that PPS was town... so when did you think that he was scum, exactly?

When I was reading from his claim to the flip.
I entered the forum, clicked a little "new" button near the thread, and it automatically put me onto the first of unread messages in the thread (page 30 if I am not mistaken). I was reading onward and saw pps' claim. I thought "alright, this guy is scum". Then I was reading forward and then I saw the flip of town!pps. This is exactly what happened and you're trying to do something strange here

[faust]

Well, nothing really changed from before, so mcmc can come and call this all terrible reasoning, but here we are. I still think your claim of a protective role was strange and unfaust-ish.

Being different is not scummy.

I think this is weird that you're still alive claimed a protective role and, again, being faust. All the last times I remember if you're alive in the beginning of D3, you're scum. And yeah, WIFOM of course, but it did work earlier, though no one lynched you then and you won.

Noone died tonight. So obviously I couldn't have died tonight. It is very much possible that scum targeted me and I was protected. Your case here is only that I wasn't killed N1.

Also, you're really almost the only one scumreading me and this means you think I am an easy mislynch, as I already have mentioned.

If noone else is scumreading you, how exactly are you an easy mislynch?

I don't think you should've done it actually, I'd look at the reactions of people if I were town. No claiming is good before the reaction onto the event. It's like if I am Tracker I start the day with I saw Hydrad targeting gkrieg (this is not the case). Why would I do this?

That is a false analogy. If I am a Tracker seeing something, then I can catch that player in a lie if he claims something else. That is why I won't tip them off that they have to claim their real target. I do not have any information that can catch anyone in a lie. The only thing my claim does is back up the claim of some other player who is a protective role. I claim early so that it is clear that it is genuine. Scum did not expect no kill, I assume. The longer I wait to reveal such information, the more likely would it be in the eyes of the rest of you that I made up some scheme as scum. Claiming early supports me being town.

And why would I do it as scum? It does not help me; in fact, it hurts scum because the player with a protective role might be IC'd, as well as their target. If I claimed to have protected as well as scum, then I could cast doubt on the whole thing. You will say I did it for towncred, which is always the excuse when you have no other thing to say, but really scum!me would know that anything I did was subject to intense scrutiny and would never give me much towncred, and ICing two townies just for the sake of looking a tiny bit townier is a terrible trade for scum.

Actually I think that your partners are some people from the subset [gkrieg/mcmc/Robz]. Maybe Galz, but he tunneled you quite effectively, which of course can be a good play. I don't know. The idea of you/gkrieg/mcmc/X? team is quite settling in my head.

I think gkrieg has also consistently been scumreading me.

[faust]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

But after the flip you would already know that PPS was town... so when did you think that he was scum, exactly?

When I was reading from his claim to the flip.
I entered the forum, clicked a little "new" button near the thread, and it automatically put me onto the first of unread messages in the thread (page 30 if I am not mistaken). I was reading onward and saw pps' claim. I thought "alright, this guy is scum". Then I was reading forward and then I saw the flip of town!pps. This is exactly what happened and you're trying to do something strange here

I don't know about others, but when I read, the first thing I check is the flip. This accomplishes 3 things:

- I am aware that I may not post anymore.
- no more tension of not knowing. I want to know things asap!
- I can analyze things through the lens of already knowing 1 more alignment, so my catching up will be more fruitful.

So, I don't really believe you. That is, surely it is possible that you approach this different than me, but it is also possible that you are scum - and for scum, the flip did not reveal any new information, so there is no clear distinction between before reading the flip and after.

[LaLight]

I think this is weird that you're still alive claimed a protective role and, again, being faust. All the last times I remember if you're alive in the beginning of D3, you're scum. And yeah, WIFOM of course, but it did work earlier, though no one lynched you then and you won.

Noone died tonight. So obviously I couldn't have died tonight. It is very much possible that scum targeted me and I was protected. Your case here is only that I wasn't killed N1.

I don't think anyone would protect you as we have supposed lovers and supposed main character, but it's just me.

Also, you're really almost the only one scumreading me and this means you think I am an easy mislynch, as I already have mentioned.

If noone else is scumreading you, how exactly are you an easy mislynch?

You are a person capable of convincing others to lynch someone, and you make good fake cases and people tend to trust you in all the games.

I don't think you should've done it actually, I'd look at the reactions of people if I were town. No claiming is good before the reaction onto the event. It's like if I am Tracker I start the day with I saw Hydrad targeting gkrieg (this is not the case). Why would I do this?

That is a false analogy. If I am a Tracker seeing something, then I can catch that player in a lie if he claims something else. That is why I won't tip them off that they have to claim their real target. I do not have any information that can catch anyone in a lie. The only thing my claim does is back up the claim of some other player who is a protective role. I claim early so that it is clear that it is genuine. Scum did not expect no kill, I assume. The longer I wait to reveal such information, the more likely would it be in the eyes of the rest of you that I made up some scheme as scum. Claiming early supports me being town.

And why would I do it as scum? It does not help me; in fact, it hurts scum because the player with a protective role might be IC'd, as well as their target. If I claimed to have protected as well as scum, then I could cast doubt on the whole thing. You will say I did it for towncred, which is always the excuse when you have no other thing to say, but really scum!me would know that anything I did was subject to intense scrutiny and would never give me much towncred, and ICing two townies just for the sake of looking a tiny bit townier is a terrible trade for scum.

You have told the scum that there is another protective role; you have told the scum, you still have the protective abilities, as you told you never used them N1 and you now told you never used them N2. Isn't this a lot of info you shouldn't've told? Person with a protective role can not be IC'd. We supposedly have you with a protective, pps had protective, maybe someone else has a protective role, this is not exactly the ICing and this would not hurt scum!you.

Actually I think that your partners are some people from the subset [gkrieg/mcmc/Robz]. Maybe Galz, but he tunneled you quite effectively, which of course can be a good play. I don't know. The idea of you/gkrieg/mcmc/X? team is quite settling in my head.

I think gkrieg has also consistently been scumreading me.

I don't remember. I remember me/pps/Galz being on your back all the time, so gkrieg even if was scumreading you, was doing this subtly which again points that you can be scum!partners.

[LaLight]

That's so weird, I was sure pps is scum. How come we have DatSwan who is unlimited flavor cop AND item-swapper and erm, 1-shot Babysitter which is worse than 1-shot Doctor?

If you were sure that PPS was scum, why were you voting for me?

I wasn't online since pps claimed and when I was reading the EoD his claim seemed to me very scummy

When exactly between the hammer and the flip were you online and why did you not post?

I was online after the flip, when it already was a night.

But after the flip you would already know that PPS was town... so when did you think that he was scum, exactly?

When I was reading from his claim to the flip.
I entered the forum, clicked a little "new" button near the thread, and it automatically put me onto the first of unread messages in the thread (page 30 if I am not mistaken). I was reading onward and saw pps' claim. I thought "alright, this guy is scum". Then I was reading forward and then I saw the flip of town!pps. This is exactly what happened and you're trying to do something strange here

I don't know about others, but when I read, the first thing I check is the flip. This accomplishes 3 things:

- I am aware that I may not post anymore.
- no more tension of not knowing. I want to know things asap!
- I can analyze things through the lens of already knowing 1 more alignment, so my catching up will be more fruitful.

So, I don't really believe you. That is, surely it is possible that you approach this different than me, but it is also possible that you are scum - and for scum, the flip did not reveal any new information, so there is no clear distinction between before reading the flip and after.

I always read things consecutively, you may believe it or not

[LaLight]

I think we play Mafia for different reasons actually. Tension of not knowing and intrigue is the thing I value most in Mafia games

[LaLight]

I think we play Mafia for different reasons actually. Tension of not knowing and intrigue is the thing I value most in Mafia games

E.g., I read, decide for myself that pps is scum and then check if I was right or not

[faust]

I think this is weird that you're still alive claimed a protective role and, again, being faust. All the last times I remember if you're alive in the beginning of D3, you're scum. And yeah, WIFOM of course, but it did work earlier, though no one lynched you then and you won.

Noone died tonight. So obviously I couldn't have died tonight. It is very much possible that scum targeted me and I was protected. Your case here is only that I wasn't killed N1.

I don't think anyone would protect you as we have supposed lovers and supposed main character, but it's just me.

So you argue that noone would protect me (i.e. I am unlikely to be killed), but still I am scummy for still being alive? You just listed a bunch of reasons for why me still being alive makes total sense...

[LaLight]

I think this is weird that you're still alive claimed a protective role and, again, being faust. All the last times I remember if you're alive in the beginning of D3, you're scum. And yeah, WIFOM of course, but it did work earlier, though no one lynched you then and you won.

Noone died tonight. So obviously I couldn't have died tonight. It is very much possible that scum targeted me and I was protected. Your case here is only that I wasn't killed N1.

I don't think anyone would protect you as we have supposed lovers and supposed main character, but it's just me.

So you argue that noone would protect me (i.e. I am unlikely to be killed), but still I am scummy for still being alive? You just listed a bunch of reasons for why me still being alive makes total sense...

you are unlikely to be protected because protectors do not know if you're town. You are likely to be killed if you're town because scum knows you're town. So if you're town, you're much more likely to be killed than protected. I think you're trying to confuse me.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why are we claiming? I like the idea of a dead person setting the order though.

[LaLight]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why are we claiming? I like the idea of a dead person setting the order though.

So you want the order, but not the claim?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Also, we probably want some claiming going.

EFHW should make a list by voting in the order people should claim.

Why are we claiming? I like the idea of a dead person setting the order though.

So you want the order, but not the claim?

Two separate thoughts.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh look the pps lynch was terrible and now we are in a scenario where lynching robz potentially ends the game for us wow it’s almost like we should have forced robz lover to claim and should have lynched him.

I don’t think anyone should claim yet other than galz. He is the only reason I was okay not lynching robz yesterday. I have reason to believe galz is town based on all the info he has compared to the info I have.

[faust]

I don’t think anyone should claim yet other than galz. He is the only reason I was okay not lynching robz yesterday. I have reason to believe galz is town based on all the info he has compared to the info I have.

If you think he is town, why is it important that he claims?

I would rather force scum to claim. And I have some ideas where they are.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

I don’t think anyone should claim yet other than galz. He is the only reason I was okay not lynching robz yesterday. I have reason to believe galz is town based on all the info he has compared to the info I have.

Bold is mine, but does that mean you support a claim today?

[gkrieg13]

I could have possibly been responsible for the lack of night kill

[mcmcsalot]

I don’t think anyone should claim yet other than galz. He is the only reason I was okay not lynching robz yesterday. I have reason to believe galz is town based on all the info he has compared to the info I have.

Bold is mine, but does that mean you support a claim today?

This is all depending on galz. Yesterday he said

“On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary”

So I want to hear what galz has to say and we can go from there. I’m open to more claims today but honestly after how yesterday ended I’m pretty confident robz is scum.

[Galzria]

I'll have time to get to this later this afternoon.

[faust]

So I want to hear what galz has to say and we can go from there. I’m open to more claims today but honestly after how yesterday ended I’m pretty confident robz is scum.

Well I am not, and I think more information would help you too if you could step away from your tunnel vision for a moment.

[faust]

I could have possibly been responsible for the lack of night kill

Could you be any more vague? How exactly do you think this helps town?

[Robz888]

I'm caught up. Not entirely sure we should massclaim. I think hydrad and gkrieg should claim, though. Gkrieg first.

[gkrieg13]

I could have possibly been responsible for the lack of night kill

Could you be any more vague? How exactly do you think this helps town?

If I'm the only reason why the kill was stopped, then it is a good reason to claim, otherwise, there isn't much of a point of claiming.

[Robz888]

I could have possibly been responsible for the lack of night kill

Could you be any more vague? How exactly do you think this helps town?

If I'm the only reason why the kill was stopped, then it is a good reason to claim, otherwise, there isn't much of a point of claiming.

Well, obviously. This sounds like you trying to wriggle out of claiming. You should claim.

[gkrieg13]

I could have possibly been responsible for the lack of night kill

Could you be any more vague? How exactly do you think this helps town?

If I'm the only reason why the kill was stopped, then it is a good reason to claim, otherwise, there isn't much of a point of claiming.

Well, obviously. This sounds like you trying to wriggle out of claiming. You should claim.

I see no reason to claim yet. 

[Robz888]

Vote: gkrieg

[EFHW]

vote: haddock
vote: gkrieg
vote: IDPTG
vote: mcmc
Vote: faust
Vote: Lalight
vote: Hydrad
Vote: Galzria
vote: Robz
Unvote

[Robz888]

EFHW, I'm presuming this is a scum to chum list, with the scummier people first? Sucks if it's the other way around! If I'm right, vote and unvote me.

[Robz888]

And if I'm wrong, vote and vote Haddock.

[Robz888]

^vote and unvote

[Robz888]

Sure is quiet.

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[EFHW]

unvote

[Robz888]

Okay! That's a reasonably good list then.

[faust]

So we claim based on that list? Haddock goes first.

[gkrieg13]

Are we sure we want to even do a mass claim?  It seems early to me.

[Hydrad]

I think day 3 is usually a pretty good option for a claim. Especially when we did block a kill? because then if we have one doctor only kinda thing we can say oh hey that person is an IC because they are the only one that got protected. info roles will hopefully have some info and in RMM it might be harder for scum to pick which one to kill.

[faust]

Are we sure we want to even do a mass claim?  It seems early to me.

There are several things that I need clarification on in order to make an informed decision, to the point where a massclaim is good. Plus, as pointed out, this is potentially MyLo, so how much later do you want to do this?

[faust]

There is something quite strange about EFHW's list.

[Hydrad]

There is something quite strange about EFHW's list.

I think I like the list. I think I know what you think is strange but I still like it. But I could just be incorrect on your thinking.

[Robz888]

Alright, let's do it.

Haddock, you are up first.

[Galzria]

Yep, waiting on Haddock

[Haddock]

Guh, fine. Don't know what I've done to deserve that scumread but whatever.

I am an ImaKandi: a beast and a Tracker.
N1 I tracked Faust and he took no action. (Hence my initial D2 scumread of him which reversed when he was honest about that.)
N2 I tracked Galz and got no result. I think I can guess why but I guess that can wait for gkrieg's claim.

[faust]

I am so confused right now.

[Hydrad]

I am so confused right now.

well hopefully this fullclaim will work out to unconfuse you.

[faust]

Guh, fine. Don't know what I've done to deserve that scumread but whatever.

I am an ImaKandi: a beast and a Tracker.
N1 I tracked Faust and he took no action. (Hence my initial D2 scumread of him which reversed when he was honest about that.)
N2 I tracked Galz and got no result. I think I can guess why but I guess that can wait for gkrieg's claim.

Any items?

[Galzria]

Gkrieg up

[LaLight]

good morning!

[LaLight]

EFHW, I'm presuming this is a scum to chum list, with the scummier people first? Sucks if it's the other way around! If I'm right, vote and unvote me.

so insincere. Why would she make a list from town to scum?...

[Haddock]

I am so confused right now.

How so?

Guh, fine. Don't know what I've done to deserve that scumread but whatever.

I am an ImaKandi: a beast and a Tracker.
N1 I tracked Faust and he took no action. (Hence my initial D2 scumread of him which reversed when he was honest about that.)
N2 I tracked Galz and got no result. I think I can guess why but I guess that can wait for gkrieg's claim.

Any items?

Nope.  Not seen anything to do with items nor do I have any.

[faust]

I am so confused right now.

How so?

It is probably better for me to only explain my thoughts when the claiming is done.

[mcmcsalot]

I’d like to go on record saying the way we are doing this full claim is stupid and the way we allowed robz’s lover to not claim yesterday was stupid and that we are going to lose this game which should have been very winnable with a day two scum lynch and players voluntarily claiming important roles/info day 4.

Alas we refused to make robz confirm his claim and are now forcing everyone to claim. Dumb dumb dumb

[faust]

I’d like to go on record saying the way we are doing this full claim is stupid and the way we allowed robz’s lover to not claim yesterday was stupid and that we are going to lose this game which should have been very winnable with a day two scum lynch and players voluntarily claiming important roles/info day 4.

Alas we refused to make robz confirm his claim and are now forcing everyone to claim. Dumb dumb dumb

Yes, we know you think Robz is scum. We know that we are all stupid and you alone know how to play this game. Come back when you have something new to share, okay?

[Robz888]

I’d like to go on record saying the way we are doing this full claim is stupid and the way we allowed robz’s lover to not claim yesterday was stupid and that we are going to lose this game which should have been very winnable with a day two scum lynch and players voluntarily claiming important roles/info day 4.

Alas we refused to make robz confirm his claim and are now forcing everyone to claim. Dumb dumb dumb

The info you so desire will be yours in time.

[LaLight]

I am going to be vla almost fully from friday evening to Monday morning

[faust]

I am going to be vla almost fully from friday evening to Monday morning

You should definitely claim before that. But hopefully we will manage to progress through the list fast enough. It is quite the drag.

[LaLight]

I am going to be vla almost fully from friday evening to Monday morning

You should definitely claim before that. But hopefully we will manage to progress through the list fast enough. It is quite the drag.

Sure, that's why I am telling it now so it will go a little faster maybe

[gkrieg13]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

[LaLight]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

so you think someone wanted to kill you? Would be really weird

[LaLight]

IDPTG next

[Galzria]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

Item name?

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

[gkrieg13]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

Item name?

Time Portal

[faust]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

That is super interesting. mcmc, can you confirm?

[faust]

And, Idplay: Would your item work if the X-shot player had already used up all their shots?

[LaLight]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

What does it mean? Can you elaborate on your power a little?..

[faust]

Oh, conveniently, mcmc is up next. This should be exciting.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

And, Idplay: Would your item work if the X-shot player had already used up all their shots?

I think so.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

What does it mean? Can you elaborate on your power a little?..

I did. Anything else and I'm basically quoting.

[LaLight]

Ooooh i got it oh my god, that’s a role

[faust]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

What is your flavor?

[gkrieg13]

I’m a 1-shot bulletproof Spirit.

I also had an item that would let me watch someone from a previous night. So last night I watched Datswan and got that no one targeted him. Unfortunately the item broke (the wording was such that I didn’t think it was a 1-shot item).

What is your flavor?

Guardian

[mcmcsalot]

I am good aligned, I am da samurai (flavor), I am a human.

I started the game with no abilities and yes night 1 I received the ability to reveal essence which makes the mod reveal my alignment, role, and items. It could be used starting night 2 but was not limited to night 2. Also the power mentions that if a player is wearing a disguise their disguise will be revealed instead of their true essence. I didn’t use the power last night because a) I’m aware it can’t actually confirm I am town because of the disguise caveat and b) I didn’t want to reveal that I had the ability or what items I had if not necessary.

I did start the game with an item. If the player holding the item is a samurai they can kill someone at night. My first question to iguana was am I a samurai as my name is da samurai but I’m called a human. He didn’t directly answer, he edited my initial pm to say (paraphrasing) I might become a samurai.

I have not attempted to use the item, I have not given the item away. I debated giving the item to galz but as there is a potential galz is lying/scum combined with my belief that vigs shouldn’t shoot early on I decided to hold it and see if I became a samuria.

This should explain my initial want for galz to expose what items he was aware of because I would be more likely to trust galz if he knew the name of the item I had on me.

Upon typing the lost I included the name of the item, I still think it may be smart for me to conceal it and see if galz knows what the item is that I hold. But if people disagree I can say what it is.

[Galzria]

vote: mcmc

[Galzria]

The item in question is "Jack's Samurai Sword". Most of what he's said about it is accurate - except it's impossible for him to not have known that it belongs to Jack.

[LaLight]

faust
Lalight
Hydrad
Galzria
Robz

[mcmcsalot]

The item in question is "Jack's Samurai Sword". Most of what he's said about it is accurate - except it's impossible for him to not have known that it belongs to Jack.

iguana can you confirm you have not made a clerical error in how you wrote the name of the itema. I will ask this more specifically in my qt and suggest you do the same galz. That’s is not the exact wording of the name of the item.

Also yes I know it belongs to samurai jack but it explicitly says that if the player holding it is a samurai hey can kill someone at night not if samurai jack is holding the item.

I never thought samurai jack couldn’t use it.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: mcmc

Explain the vote please? Is it because I didn’t blindly give you the ability to kill when I don’t know your alignment? Or if you even are samurai jack?

[mcmcsalot]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

Care to also explain your vote? Are you aware the ability would reveal a disguise if the player had one? If not why in the work would I use the ability instead of using it the night after I am forced to claim that I have it. My only guess here is that you think that it could only be used night 2 in which case I agree it would have been scummy not to use it.

[LaLight]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

Care to also explain your vote? Are you aware the ability would reveal a disguise if the player had one? If not why in the work would I use the ability instead of using it the night after I am forced to claim that I have it. My only guess here is that you think that it could only be used night 2 in which case I agree it would have been scummy not to use it.

What is a disguise?

[mcmcsalot]

Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit. My ability is One shot grant "Reveal Essence". I targeted mcmc N1 and he chose not to have his role, alignment, and items confirmed by the mod at the beginning of today which is pretty scummy to me. vote: mcmc

I also have an item that allows a beast to turn their X shot ability into a nightly ability.

Care to also explain your vote? Are you aware the ability would reveal a disguise if the player had one? If not why in the work would I use the ability instead of using it the night after I am forced to claim that I have it. My only guess here is that you think that it could only be used night 2 in which case I agree it would have been scummy not to use it.

What is a disguise?

No clue but if you are wearing one that is revealed and not your true essence

[Galzria]

The item in question is "Jack's Samurai Sword". Most of what he's said about it is accurate - except it's impossible for him to not have known that it belongs to Jack.

iguana can you confirm you have not made a clerical error in how you wrote the name of the itema. I will ask this more specifically in my qt and suggest you do the same galz. That’s is not the exact wording of the name of the item.

Also yes I know it belongs to samurai jack but it explicitly says that if the player holding it is a samurai hey can kill someone at night not if samurai jack is holding the item.

I never thought samurai jack couldn’t use it.

Let me clarify - shouldn't have used quotes here - I don't know the exact technical name of the sword that Iguana may have used. I have been told that I know that my sword exists, is in the game, and that I can wield it. It is clearly Jack's Sword though.

The reason for my vote is that your logic is inconsistent - I claimed Jack, uncontested. You claim to know the item is Jack's (it's pretty clear) - yet you say you didn't trust me and that:

"I would be more likely to trust galz if he knew the name of the item I had on me."

Yet if I was Jack (which again, uncontested), and you knew the item belonged to Jack, it doesn't seem to follow that you would question me on this.

[mcmcsalot]

The item in question is "Jack's Samurai Sword". Most of what he's said about it is accurate - except it's impossible for him to not have known that it belongs to Jack.

iguana can you confirm you have not made a clerical error in how you wrote the name of the itema. I will ask this more specifically in my qt and suggest you do the same galz. That’s is not the exact wording of the name of the item.

Also yes I know it belongs to samurai jack but it explicitly says that if the player holding it is a samurai hey can kill someone at night not if samurai jack is holding the item.

I never thought samurai jack couldn’t use it.

Let me clarify - shouldn't have used quotes here - I don't know the exact technical name of the sword that Iguana may have used. I have been told that I know that my sword exists, is in the game, and that I can wield it. It is clearly Jack's Sword though.

Okay yea the quotes threw me off it is Samurai Jack’s Sword. Not Jack’s Samurai Sword.

The reason for my vote is that your logic is inconsistent - I claimed Jack, uncontested. You claim to know the item is Jack's (it's pretty clear) - yet you say you didn't trust me and that:

"I would be more likely to trust galz if he knew the name of the item I had on me."

Yet if I was Jack (which again, uncontested), and you knew the item belonged to Jack, it doesn't seem to follow that you would question me on this.

That is not the only thing I said. Mainly I do not know that you are town and as I said even taking that risk into account (I think you are town) I’m not a fan of vigs shooting anyway so I didn’t find the risk of giving you the sword worth it.

The part about you knowing the name of the item is that there is a non-zero chance that you are an evil being in the disguise of samurai jack or have just fake claimed samurai jack and that the real samurai jack was keeping quiet because they are super important to town and didn’t want to get killed. That is a long shot but possible and you knowing exactly if the items samurai jack can use makes me more comfortable that you are the real samurai jack.

[Robz888]

So the thing about mcmc is, he's scum.

[mcmcsalot]

So the thing about mcmc is, he's scum.

Reasons?

[Robz888]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

[Robz888]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

[gkrieg13]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

[Robz888]

I don't understand why "if I'm in a disguise this wouldn't work" is something that would prevent you from revealing your essence. Are you in a disguise? You're not claiming to be. The rest of us wouldn't even know about the disguise thing. So you wouldn't even need to muddy the waters in such a fashion.

[Robz888]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

If he was town he would have used it already, nice try scum partner though.

[LaLight]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Yes, this is exactly what I am thinking

[gkrieg13]

Ya, shouldn't you know if you are in a disguise?

[mcmcsalot]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Ugh I am so sick of people taking one part of my posts and pretending that is it. The only solace I am getting here is that I am sure you are scum. Take away the disguise part

Why would I ever be revealed as an ic instead of saying guess what don’t lynch my and tomorrow I will appear as an ic

The first thing I said when I got it was awesome this is an on demand next day ic power I can use.

[LaLight]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Ugh I am so sick of people taking one part of my posts and pretending that is it. The only solace I am getting here is that I am sure you are scum. Take away the disguise part

Why would I ever be revealed as an ic instead of saying guess what don’t lynch my and tomorrow I will appear as an ic

The first thing I said when I got it was awesome this is an on demand next day ic power I can use.

we're possibly in MyLo!

[gkrieg13]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

If he was town he would have used it already, nice try scum partner though.

It seems weird to try to lynch someone who can become an IC tonight. 

[LaLight]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

If he was town he would have used it already, nice try scum partner though.

It seems weird to try to lynch someone who can become an IC tonight.

and again, no, because we're possibly in MyLo

[gkrieg13]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Ugh I am so sick of people taking one part of my posts and pretending that is it. The only solace I am getting here is that I am sure you are scum. Take away the disguise part

Why would I ever be revealed as an ic instead of saying guess what don’t lynch my and tomorrow I will appear as an ic

The first thing I said when I got it was awesome this is an on demand next day ic power I can use.

we're possibly in MyLo!

? how?

[mcmcsalot]

Jesus Christ I’m not in a disguise.

If we don’t lynch my I will tomorrow be mod confirmed as da samurai town aligned human with samurai jacks sword.

Excuse me for full claiming all aspects of the ability. Clearly I should have lied and or given only parts of my role like robz did so I could not get lynched.

[mcmcsalot]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

If he was town he would have used it already, nice try scum partner though.

It seems weird to try to lynch someone who can become an IC tonight.

and again, no, because we're possibly in MyLo

IF THE CLAIMED AND NOT BACKED UP LOVER WHO WE SHOULD HAVE LYNCHED YESTERDAY IS ACTUALLY A LOVER AND DIES

[LaLight]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Ugh I am so sick of people taking one part of my posts and pretending that is it. The only solace I am getting here is that I am sure you are scum. Take away the disguise part

Why would I ever be revealed as an ic instead of saying guess what don’t lynch my and tomorrow I will appear as an ic

The first thing I said when I got it was awesome this is an on demand next day ic power I can use.

we're possibly in MyLo!

? how?

do you know how many scums are there? people can change alignments. Robz has a lover, that's two townie deaths in one night. if we lynch town, it's possibly one of [2 town 4 scum and EFHW, 3 town 3 scum and EFHW]

[LaLight]

I actually move that we should halt the massclaim and just lynch mcmc now.

Why wouldn't we keep mcmc alive and let him use his IC thing tonight?

If he was town he would have used it already, nice try scum partner though.

It seems weird to try to lynch someone who can become an IC tonight.

and again, no, because we're possibly in MyLo

IF THE CLAIMED AND NOT BACKED UP LOVER WHO WE SHOULD HAVE LYNCHED YESTERDAY IS ACTUALLY A LOVER AND DIES

OR WE HAVE FOUR SCUMS

[gkrieg13]

I will reiterate, it seems ridiculous to think that with 12 people starting the game that there was the possibility of 4 scum.  That means that with a successful kill last night, the game would have been over, which is crazy.

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't possibility for 4 scum without something like a guilty child like in the cancer game.

[Robz888]

I will reiterate, it seems ridiculous to think that with 12 people starting the game that there was the possibility of 4 scum.  That means that with a successful kill last night, the game would have been over, which is crazy.

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't possibility for 4 scum without something like a guilty child like in the cancer game.

We know there's alignment change shenanigans, so 4 to start with is high but we could have gotten there.

Insane that mcmc would not have used this PR already. He's scum.

[LaLight]

I will reiterate, it seems ridiculous to think that with 12 people starting the game that there was the possibility of 4 scum.  That means that with a successful kill last night, the game would have been over, which is crazy.

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't possibility for 4 scum without something like a guilty child like in the cancer game.

Or scum lovers. Or scum!restless spirit

[LaLight]

I will reiterate, it seems ridiculous to think that with 12 people starting the game that there was the possibility of 4 scum.  That means that with a successful kill last night, the game would have been over, which is crazy.

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't possibility for 4 scum without something like a guilty child like in the cancer game.

We know there's alignment change shenanigans, so 4 to start with is high but we could have gotten there.

Insane that mcmc would not have used this PR already. He's scum.

by the way no one claimed any changing alignments so possibly town converts to scum, don't you think

[mcmcsalot]

Day One Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): McMcsalot
Hydrad (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (7): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, EFHW, gkrieg13, Pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

With 12 alive, it took 7 to lynch

Day Two Final Vote Count

Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): Hydrad, pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
pingpongsam (6): Galzria, Robz888, Haddock, faust, EFHW, IDontPlayThisGame

With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[mcmcsalot]

I will reiterate, it seems ridiculous to think that with 12 people starting the game that there was the possibility of 4 scum.  That means that with a successful kill last night, the game would have been over, which is crazy.

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't possibility for 4 scum without something like a guilty child like in the cancer game.

We know there's alignment change shenanigans, so 4 to start with is high but we could have gotten there.

Insane that mcmc would not have used this PR already. He's scum.

EXPLAIN WHY.  How does it not make more sense to save it to use after claiming

[Haddock]

Mcmc and gkrieg look like obvscum here.

Tend to think we should finish the claim now though. It is probably good to confirm the whole robz lover thing before we lynch mcmc?

[mcmcsalot]

Mcmc and gkrieg look like obvscum here.

Tend to think we should finish the claim now though. It is probably good to confirm the whole robz lover thing before we lynch mcmc?

I haven’t been on any of the town lynched thus far this game. I started with an item that can be given to samurai jack but because I didn’t use an ability that doesn’t even fully confirm I am IC I am scum?

[mcmcsalot]

Someone explain why I should have used the ability and let’s go from there.

[LaLight]

Someone explain why I should have used the ability and let’s go from there.

Because you have no single reason not to become an IC and wait until claiming

[LaLight]

I personally don't see any reasons I would postpone the becoming of IC. IC is freaking useful as a role!

[gkrieg13]

I think the scummiest thing mcmc has done is not give the sword up to galzria.

[mcmcsalot]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.

2) I would assume idptg was aware of the caveat that if you are wearing a disguise that is what’s revealed. If I was idptg that would be the first thing I would say after the person used the ability to inform everyone it’s not guaranteed the player who used the ability is town. So the end result would just be that the mod reveals I have samurai jacks sword.

So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

[mcmcsalot]

Someone explain why I should have used the ability and let’s go from there.

Because you have no single reason not to become an IC and wait until claiming

Wrong in a vacuum the longer you can hold on to being publicly made and ic the better. The earlier I am made ic the earlier I die, the less useful it is

[gkrieg13]

I think mcmc's reasoning is good here.  Delayed IC is better than D1 IC.  The only way this is a gamble at all for us is if it really is MYLO (which I reiterate that is can't be and be a balanced game).

[LaLight]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.

2) I would assume idptg was aware of the caveat that if you are wearing a disguise that is what’s revealed. If I was idptg that would be the first thing I would say after the person used the ability to inform everyone it’s not guaranteed the player who used the ability is town. So the end result would just be that the mod reveals I have samurai jacks sword.

So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

What if you weren’t disguised then, but is disguised now and that’s why you postponed?

[mcmcsalot]

I think the scummiest thing mcmc has done is not give the sword up to galzria.

Check my track record. I don’t think vigs should shoot why would town!mcmc potentially make galz a vigilante when the downside is potentially giving scum an extra night kill. There is nothing to say samurai jack is town, and there is nothing to say there isn’t a scum who is a samurai and can use the sword. Again the sword says any samurai can use it not just jack.

[gkrieg13]

Also items and role would be revealed as well, which doesn't seem like it would matter much at this point, but still a big consideration.

[faust]

Not taking advantage of the reveal essence to become a near-IC is very, very scummy. This whole "oh but what if I was disguised" business doesn't add up... I mean, that's something mafia would worry about. Like, a townie would get this, use it, be happy to be confirmed town, and not fret the whole disguise business.

Vote: mcmc

Stop. Halt. Desist.

[gkrieg13]

I think the scummiest thing mcmc has done is not give the sword up to galzria.

Check my track record. I don’t think vigs should shoot why would town!mcmc potentially make galz a vigilante when the downside is potentially giving scum an extra night kill. There is nothing to say samurai jack is town, and there is nothing to say there isn’t a scum who is a samurai and can use the sword. Again the sword says any samurai can use it not just jack.

I get that, but I really think it is unlikely that scum are given an extra kill if there are 3 scum in 12 people (especially with 4 scum in 12 people as some are suggesting.)

[mcmcsalot]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.

2) I would assume idptg was aware of the caveat that if you are wearing a disguise that is what’s revealed. If I was idptg that would be the first thing I would say after the person used the ability to inform everyone it’s not guaranteed the player who used the ability is town. So the end result would just be that the mod reveals I have samurai jacks sword.

So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

What if you weren’t disguised then, but is disguised now and that’s why you postponed?

I mean I guess that is a possibility. Its a stretch but sure if you find me so scummy you can make that argument. I’ll go back to the fact is it would be very weird for me to be a scum who started with samurai jacks sword, and have some kind of a disguise mechanic, especially one that is delayed.

[faust]

I urge all mcmc voters to stop and unvote please. You have expressed your suspicions, I don't want an early lynch. This game has been wrecked sufficiently by town suspecting one another as it is.

[mcmcsalot]

I think the scummiest thing mcmc has done is not give the sword up to galzria.

Check my track record. I don’t think vigs should shoot why would town!mcmc potentially make galz a vigilante when the downside is potentially giving scum an extra night kill. There is nothing to say samurai jack is town, and there is nothing to say there isn’t a scum who is a samurai and can use the sword. Again the sword says any samurai can use it not just jack.

I get that, but I really think it is unlikely that scum are given an extra kill if there are 3 scum in 12 people (especially with 4 scum in 12 people as some are suggesting.)

I agree with what your saying but since the wording was such that any samurai could use the sword and that I could potentially become a samurai it makes it possible (though slight) that there is scum who can use the sword. And again combine that with the fact that I don’t think a cig should shoot on early days I didn’t find it smart to give galz the sword.

[faust]

I am Woolie, a 1-shot Bodyguard beast

Last night, I targeted Galzria. I claimed protective role early because this role is super inconsequential. I tried hard to get killed last night by either protecting Galzria or making scum believe I was Robz' lover. I am not actually Robz' lover though.

I also have an item (bagpipes) that can be used by a Scotsman. I assume that EFHW was the only Scotsman in the game, what with the show taking place in Japan. So I never really did anything with it. I thought about maybe sending it to another town as some kind of signal that I wasn't roleblocked or something, but it never seemed important. The item would enable EFHW to roleblock another player.

[faust]

I will say that Idplay has become my top townread, and that gkrieg's claim is super suspicious, and that gkrieg and LaLight are very likely partners.

[mcmcsalot]

Hydrad and galz are all that’s left.

Still no lover claim.

[LaLight]

I am also left. I am Max, a good-aligned machine and a motion detector.

I have no idea how good is motion-detector in rmms but here we are: first night i targeted Robz, second night Haddock. Both had some motions there.

[mcmcsalot]

I am also left. I am Max, a good-aligned machine and a motion detector.

I have no idea how good is motion-detector in rmms but here we are: first night i targeted Robz, second night Haddock. Both had some motions there.

Do you detect item movement as well as role targeting?

[LaLight]

I will say that Idplay has become my top townread, and that gkrieg's claim is super suspicious, and that gkrieg and LaLight are very likely partners.

What a coincidence, idptg is my town read now as well and i think you and gkrieg are partners

[LaLight]

I am also left. I am Max, a good-aligned machine and a motion detector.

I have no idea how good is motion-detector in rmms but here we are: first night i targeted Robz, second night Haddock. Both had some motions there.

Do you detect item movement as well as role targeting?

Yes, any targeted movements. Oh, and I didn’t have any items

[LaLight]

Lynching gkrieg looks the best. We collectively think he’s scummy, this will give mcmc a chance to be an ic

[LaLight]

Hydrad up

[Robz888]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.
So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

Delaying IC a night or two is good, but there's no way town!you would seriously think you could get away with delaying it another night when this is possibly MYLO.

[Robz888]

I urge all mcmc voters to stop and unvote please. You have expressed your suspicions, I don't want an early lynch. This game has been wrecked sufficiently by town suspecting one another as it is.

I think quicklynching mcmc before the massclaim proceeded would have been a good idea, but now that virtually everyone has claimed, it's not important.

Unvote

[mcmcsalot]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.
So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

Delaying IC a night or two is good, but there's no way town!you would seriously think you could get away with delaying it another night when this is possibly MYLO.

I do not think this is mylo. It’s only mylo if you are actually a love and you and your lover die.
Even if we were certain that’s the case we would absolutely want to no lynch and then I could use it.

You’re scum or stupid which is what gives me such confidence you are scum.

[Robz888]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.
So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

Delaying IC a night or two is good, but there's no way town!you would seriously think you could get away with delaying it another night when this is possibly MYLO.

I do not think this is mylo. It’s only mylo if you are actually a love and you and your lover die.
Even if we were certain that’s the case we would absolutely want to no lynch and then I could use it.

You’re scum or stupid which is what gives me such confidence you are scum.

Nah ah, YOU are scum or stupid.

[mcmcsalot]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.
So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

Delaying IC a night or two is good, but there's no way town!you would seriously think you could get away with delaying it another night when this is possibly MYLO.

I do not think this is mylo. It’s only mylo if you are actually a love and you and your lover die.
Even if we were certain that’s the case we would absolutely want to no lynch and then I could use it.

You’re scum or stupid which is what gives me such confidence you are scum.

Nah ah, YOU are scum or stupid.

  also the hilarity behind the fact that you think it would have been good for town to quicklynch me and thus not need your partner to claim for another day when at this point we almost certainly don’t have a protective role makes me laugh.

[Robz888]

It's impossible to know whether it's MYLO right now, it's probably not but it could be. We don't exactly know how many scum there are or how many kills they get or how possible it is to protect townies from dying.

[Robz888]

There are two separate things going on here.

1) if the power makes me an ic it’s absolutely smart of me to wait to use it until I have to every day I don’t use it is one day later I get to be an ic. There is a reason day 2 ic is better than regular ic. My thought day 4 ic is better than day 3 ic.
So I reiterate who should I have used the ability?

Delaying IC a night or two is good, but there's no way town!you would seriously think you could get away with delaying it another night when this is possibly MYLO.

I do not think this is mylo. It’s only mylo if you are actually a love and you and your lover die.
Even if we were certain that’s the case we would absolutely want to no lynch and then I could use it.

You’re scum or stupid which is what gives me such confidence you are scum.

Nah ah, YOU are scum or stupid.

  also the hilarity behind the fact that you think it would have been good for town to quicklynch me and thus not need your partner to claim for another day when at this point we almost certainly don’t have a protective role makes me laugh.

Flagging this post so I can make fun of you later for being so wrong.

[mcmcsalot]

I am Woolie, a 1-shot Bodyguard beast

Last night, I targeted Galzria. I claimed protective role early because this role is super inconsequential. I tried hard to get killed last night by either protecting Galzria or making scum believe I was Robz' lover. I am not actually Robz' lover though.

I also have an item (bagpipes) that can be used by a Scotsman. I assume that EFHW was the only Scotsman in the game, what with the show taking place in Japan. So I never really did anything with it. I thought about maybe sending it to another town as some kind of signal that I wasn't roleblocked or something, but it never seemed important. The item would enable EFHW to roleblock another player.

Hold on but why would you try to get killed? I get protecting galz as he is possibly an important character, but why act like robz lover in an attempt to get shot at. Why not pretend you didn’t believe robz was a lover and then bodyguard him to prevent the double night kill? Basically I don’t see the value in you acting like robz lover?

[Robz888]

I am Woolie, a 1-shot Bodyguard beast

Last night, I targeted Galzria. I claimed protective role early because this role is super inconsequential. I tried hard to get killed last night by either protecting Galzria or making scum believe I was Robz' lover. I am not actually Robz' lover though.

I also have an item (bagpipes) that can be used by a Scotsman. I assume that EFHW was the only Scotsman in the game, what with the show taking place in Japan. So I never really did anything with it. I thought about maybe sending it to another town as some kind of signal that I wasn't roleblocked or something, but it never seemed important. The item would enable EFHW to roleblock another player.

Hold on but why would you try to get killed? I get protecting galz as he is possibly an important character, but why act like robz lover in an attempt to get shot at. Why not pretend you didn’t believe robz was a lover and then bodyguard him to prevent the double night kill? Basically I don’t see the value in you acting like robz lover?

How would pretending he didn't believe me result in me getting shot at?

[mcmcsalot]

I am Woolie, a 1-shot Bodyguard beast

Last night, I targeted Galzria. I claimed protective role early because this role is super inconsequential. I tried hard to get killed last night by either protecting Galzria or making scum believe I was Robz' lover. I am not actually Robz' lover though.

I also have an item (bagpipes) that can be used by a Scotsman. I assume that EFHW was the only Scotsman in the game, what with the show taking place in Japan. So I never really did anything with it. I thought about maybe sending it to another town as some kind of signal that I wasn't roleblocked or something, but it never seemed important. The item would enable EFHW to roleblock another player.

Hold on but why would you try to get killed? I get protecting galz as he is possibly an important character, but why act like robz lover in an attempt to get shot at. Why not pretend you didn’t believe robz was a lover and then bodyguard him to prevent the double night kill? Basically I don’t see the value in you acting like robz lover?

How would pretending he didn't believe me result in me getting shot at?

Because we decided the only good reason not to have your lover confirm your claim was because it is easier to protect you and your lover if scum only knows of your exsistance and that Faust was the one who had claimed the protective role. So if Faust acted like he wasn’t going to protect you scum is more likely to shoot you. Instead Faust acted like he was your partner which really meant scum was unlikely to shoot you because he would be likely to protect you. His stated reason was he was trying to draw the night kill which doesn’t make sense.

[Robz888]

Ah right, because he was pretending to be protective. Forgot that. Well he misplayed that, then.

[Galzria]

Behind, but unvote for {Reasons}. Finish claims, will discuss after. Not lynching Mcmc.

[faust]

I am Woolie, a 1-shot Bodyguard beast

Last night, I targeted Galzria. I claimed protective role early because this role is super inconsequential. I tried hard to get killed last night by either protecting Galzria or making scum believe I was Robz' lover. I am not actually Robz' lover though.

I also have an item (bagpipes) that can be used by a Scotsman. I assume that EFHW was the only Scotsman in the game, what with the show taking place in Japan. So I never really did anything with it. I thought about maybe sending it to another town as some kind of signal that I wasn't roleblocked or something, but it never seemed important. The item would enable EFHW to roleblock another player.

Hold on but why would you try to get killed? I get protecting galz as he is possibly an important character, but why act like robz lover in an attempt to get shot at. Why not pretend you didn’t believe robz was a lover and then bodyguard him to prevent the double night kill? Basically I don’t see the value in you acting like robz lover?

Well I couldn't protect both Galzria and Robz, and Galzria was more important. But Robz and his Lover were reasonable targets also and I thought since a bunch of people scumread me it would be beneficial for me to be nightkilled instead of some more important townie.

[faust]

Ah right, because he was pretending to be protective. Forgot that. Well he misplayed that, then.

No I didn't.

[faust]

Scum could still shoot his partner, and I figured if scum could exclude me for a partner, it would make the actual partner obvious to them.

[Hydrad]

Hello!

I am awake and its my turn. Perfect.

I am X-49, A good-aligned machine.

I am also framed like I said before. didn't think about it before but framed says with an evil-aligned disguise. So that's probably the disguise part of the IDPTG's power but maybe there is more of them.

I also have the item Mechanical Armor. its a 1-shot BP basically but only for machines.

We have a lot of BP's this game.

I did confirm that I still have my armor and it didn't break last night.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 3.1

faust (1): Lalight
McMcsalot (1): IDontPlayThisGame

not voting (8):  faust, Hydrad, McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Haddock, Robz888

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Wednesday, July 25, 2018, 06:00:00 am

[Galzria]

My turn.

I am Samurai Jack!

I am a Human, and am good aligned!

I am a neighborizer that creates neighborhoods that last for the following day and night cycle.

N1 I targeted Robz. Robz opened the neighborhood D2 by immediately claiming to me:

Robz is Ashi!

Ashi is a Scum Traitor! Ashi could also try and self recruit (2-shot), as well as could investigate kill/not-kill (separate actions).

Ashi is a member of an assassin sisterhood to be exact. She eventually defects and becomes an ally of Jack. Robz claimed that he was given the option to defect and become town (this was presented morning D2, and he had 48 hours to decide). Having claimed to take this action and now he town, Robz claimed to have lost all his previous abilities and was now my Lover. It's important to note that this Lover relationship is one way - I did not become his Lover.

I don't entirely believe Robz, and the Lover claim is a great claim to attempt to draw a kill. But knowing that mafia didn't know his alignment, I knew that mafia would see him as a "safe" lynch to push yesterday. Hence my instance on lynching almost anywhere else. I was extremely hopeful of finding a mafia so that their partners would be forced to Robz.

It's also, Mcmc, why I've brushed off your Lovers concern regarding MyLo. Even assuming he's telling the truth, the only danger was if I got lynched or killed. Lynching me wasn't going to happen, and if I was killed but Robz didn't die... well, you get my read on him from yesterday.

Last thing, is the item that I hold. I have my motorcycle, which allows me to commute me and my current neighbor.

Had PPS flipped scum, I would've neighborized again last night. As he flipped town, I used my motorcycle last night to prevent scum from killing me/Robz or recruiting Robz.

Note: My claim regarding species is because Ashi is half-human half Demon - the daughter of Aku (series big bad).

Everything Robz has claimed thematically makes perfect sense. But we should still lynch him today:

- There's a decent chance he flips scum
- If he flips town Lover, it's only a single death for a now otherwise VT player
- Mcmc will get his night to confirm alignment

vote: Robz

[Robz888]

Galzria's post is correct, but there are a couple items he glossed over.

So, I did indeed begin this game scum-aligned. If mcmc is town (a big IF), his unfailing scumread on me from Day 1 was actually correct, because Day 1 I was technically scum.

I did not know I would be given the option to switch alignments; I haven't seen much Samurai Jack, I didn't know the storyline for my character.

So it was a surprise to me. I think in many circumstances I would have picked to stay scum, But:

I was now in a neighborhood with Galz, who by chance of my Killsmith investigation I knew was not scum. Therefore, we had the option to operate as Masons if I switched to town, which is quite strong for town. Also, I thought I would keep my Killsmith role, which is very strong for town--I was relishing the opportunity to own once against as a town cop. And I knew my defection would further hurt scum.

So I thought taking the switch to town was going to put the town in a really dominating position, and was thus good for me, if I switched. So I did.

I was apoplectic that Galz responded to this in our thread by opining that he thought I was scum, and I barely got him to back off for a day. I should have remembered how he treated me as a Survivor in that one game. Mildly infuriating.

The important thing about not outing Galz as my co-Lover was that it's a one way double kill; if Galz dies, I die, but if I die, Galz does not die. So I was hoping to draw the kill, rather than Galz. That's why I didn't budge, and resisted outing him at all costs.

[Robz888]

I'm honestly shocked that anyone, especially Galz, could possibly think I was scum at this point. I'm so baffled that it must be a perception problem of mine own. Lynch me, you're wrong, I'm rooting for scum and wishing I had stuck with them.

[Robz888]

Vote: Robz

[gkrieg13]

Hello!

I am awake and its my turn. Perfect.

I am X-49, A good-aligned machine.

I am also framed like I said before. didn't think about it before but framed says with an evil-aligned disguise. So that's probably the disguise part of the IDPTG's power but maybe there is more of them.

I also have the item Mechanical Armor. its a 1-shot BP basically but only for machines.

We have a lot of BP's this game.

I did confirm that I still have my armor and it didn't break last night.

So do you have no abilities other than being framed?

[gkrieg13]

Still processing Robz/galzria.

What makes you so convinced Robz is scum galz?  I still feel like I'm missing something.

[mcmcsalot]

Hmm okay so just consolidating things in my head.

Robz was scummy day 1 and checks out.
Faust and robz seemed like partners, Faust has an explaination.
Robz and galz seemed like lovers, they are.
Robz has a valid reason for ignoring traditional logic as it pertains to lovers.

Robz did you and galz talk about if he should claim at all while I was pressuring you?

[mcmcsalot]

Robz do you know how many scum there are?

[Robz888]

Hmm okay so just consolidating things in my head.

Robz was scummy day 1 and checks out.
Faust and robz seemed like partners, Faust has an explaination.
Robz and galz seemed like lovers, they are.
Robz has a valid reason for ignoring traditional logic as it pertains to lovers.

Robz did you and galz talk about if he should claim at all while I was pressuring you?

We talked, not about that specifically, we were on the same page about him not claiming.

[Robz888]

Robz do you know how many scum there are?

I do not.

[Hydrad]

Hello!

I am awake and its my turn. Perfect.

I am X-49, A good-aligned machine.

I am also framed like I said before. didn't think about it before but framed says with an evil-aligned disguise. So that's probably the disguise part of the IDPTG's power but maybe there is more of them.

I also have the item Mechanical Armor. its a 1-shot BP basically but only for machines.

We have a lot of BP's this game.

I did confirm that I still have my armor and it didn't break last night.

So do you have no abilities other than being framed?

Nope. Unless you count my item being an ability then i'm BP.

[Hydrad]

also I'll just say this because I'm pretty sure someone will see it anyways.

I'm betting I was a town player that could have gone to scum. X-49 seems to be evil aligned in the show. and balancing it makes sense for framed to be the person that switches to be scum to make it so I don't become an IC and then turn to scum. Plus the fact that I don't really have any abilities either so I'm not super powerful if i switch to either side.

Thats my theory.

So if Robz is town now (which I think is true). I doubt I can be switched to scum anymore (which I might not even be right about being allowed to swap).

[gkrieg13]

Hello!

I am awake and its my turn. Perfect.

I am X-49, A good-aligned machine.

I am also framed like I said before. didn't think about it before but framed says with an evil-aligned disguise. So that's probably the disguise part of the IDPTG's power but maybe there is more of them.

I also have the item Mechanical Armor. its a 1-shot BP basically but only for machines.

We have a lot of BP's this game.

I did confirm that I still have my armor and it didn't break last night.

So do you have no abilities other than being framed?

Nope. Unless you count my item being an ability then i'm BP.

This seems scummy. If your item got taken, you would just be a VT with a negative modifier.

[faust]

Vote: gkrieg

[Hydrad]

Hello!

I am awake and its my turn. Perfect.

I am X-49, A good-aligned machine.

I am also framed like I said before. didn't think about it before but framed says with an evil-aligned disguise. So that's probably the disguise part of the IDPTG's power but maybe there is more of them.

I also have the item Mechanical Armor. its a 1-shot BP basically but only for machines.

We have a lot of BP's this game.

I did confirm that I still have my armor and it didn't break last night.

So do you have no abilities other than being framed?

Nope. Unless you count my item being an ability then i'm BP.

This seems scummy. If your item got taken, you would just be a VT with a negative modifier.

Yup like I said. thats why I'm assuming I'm the town that can switch to scum.

Vote:gkrieg13 also

[LaLight]

Vote: gkrieg13

[faust]

So let me expand a bit on gkrieg. Now that we have the claiming out of the way, I can actually post a case.

The very first thing to notice is the claim. And for this, let me go on a bit of a tangent. When I got my role, I thought "well this is crap". 1-shot Bodyguard is really not very useful. Then PPS's role mirrored mine and I figured maybe there just is a bit of a theme of "various 1-shot protective roles". Which makes sense with having some powerful roles. Of course, Idplay's claimed item really wraps things up nicely because it means both PPS and me could have gotten the full role.

Now, gkrieg's claim. There is not much reason for someone to be randomly 1-shot BP. It's a boring role, and it doesn't tie in with anything else in an interesting way. But it makes sense for scum!gkrieg to see PPS's flip and decide that he wants to model his role on this. It also makes sense to for scum to cast doubt on who was targeted tonight (it is very unlikely still that gkrieg was targeted, so my money is on Galzria/Robz). At the time, with the knowledge he had, this would have seemed like a good fakeclaim for scum!gkrieg. Of course it got somewhat invalidated by first Idplay's claim - which means that things are not just randomly 1-shot in this setup - and then Hydrad's claim, which means there is actually a BP item.

With this in mind, let us look back at Day 2. At one point, we actually have a wagon on gkrieg. It consists of:

Galzria, Hydrad, PPS, Robz

Now there is a good deal of townies on here. Then comes this from LaLight:

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

which is a scummy post in and off itself, with weak reasoning. I think it is a partner trying to join the wagon so he will look better, without any intention of following through.

And, lo and behold, then Galzria hops off some time later, and immediately afterwards:

vote: faust, maybe this’ll work this time

LaLight leaves as well.

Over the course of the Day, LaLight continues to switch to various people, but never back to gkrieg. He goes on to vote for Robz, PPS, me again, Idplay. He never goes back to gkrieg.

So there you have it. I think that is our scum team. Add to that that LaLight's claim is itself highly unconfirmable and convenient.

[faust]

also I'll just say this because I'm pretty sure someone will see it anyways.

I'm betting I was a town player that could have gone to scum. X-49 seems to be evil aligned in the show. and balancing it makes sense for framed to be the person that switches to be scum to make it so I don't become an IC and then turn to scum. Plus the fact that I don't really have any abilities either so I'm not super powerful if i switch to either side.

Thats my theory.

So if Robz is town now (which I think is true). I doubt I can be switched to scum anymore (which I might not even be right about being allowed to swap).

Unfortunately, I don't think so. If Robz truly is town now, then from a balance perspective it would make more sense if you actually were scum now. Which I think is kind of likely. I also think we should force you to give away your item.

[faust]

Also, the whole Robz/Galz neighborhood thing brings back memories from M31. I love it.

[Galzria]

Also, the whole Robz/Galz neighborhood thing brings back memories from M31. I love it.

This. So much this. I've even brought it up with him. His feigned indignation that I could possibly find him scummy still is just hilarious to me for literally this exact reason. I can never trust him again.

[faust]

There is also the fact that everyone's calim tie in with one another or with the setup:

Idplay is connected via his item to me and PPS.
I have an item for EFHW.
Hydrad is probably par of the alignment switching, and his disguise fits with Idplay's ability.
mcmc has Galzria's sword.
Robz is an alignment-changer.

The only ones that do not fit are Haddock, LaLight, gkrieg. Haddock gets a bit of a pass because he softclaimed D2, and because his results fit with Galzria's commuting.

[LaLight]

So let me expand a bit on gkrieg. Now that we have the claiming out of the way, I can actually post a case.

The very first thing to notice is the claim. And for this, let me go on a bit of a tangent. When I got my role, I thought "well this is crap". 1-shot Bodyguard is really not very useful. Then PPS's role mirrored mine and I figured maybe there just is a bit of a theme of "various 1-shot protective roles". Which makes sense with having some powerful roles. Of course, Idplay's claimed item really wraps things up nicely because it means both PPS and me could have gotten the full role.

Now, gkrieg's claim. There is not much reason for someone to be randomly 1-shot BP. It's a boring role, and it doesn't tie in with anything else in an interesting way. But it makes sense for scum!gkrieg to see PPS's flip and decide that he wants to model his role on this. It also makes sense to for scum to cast doubt on who was targeted tonight (it is very unlikely still that gkrieg was targeted, so my money is on Galzria/Robz). At the time, with the knowledge he had, this would have seemed like a good fakeclaim for scum!gkrieg. Of course it got somewhat invalidated by first Idplay's claim - which means that things are not just randomly 1-shot in this setup - and then Hydrad's claim, which means there is actually a BP item.

With this in mind, let us look back at Day 2. At one point, we actually have a wagon on gkrieg. It consists of:

Galzria, Hydrad, PPS, Robz

Now there is a good deal of townies on here. Then comes this from LaLight:

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

which is a scummy post in and off itself, with weak reasoning. I think it is a partner trying to join the wagon so he will look better, without any intention of following through.

And, lo and behold, then Galzria hops off some time later, and immediately afterwards:

vote: faust, maybe this’ll work this time

LaLight leaves as well.

Over the course of the Day, LaLight continues to switch to various people, but never back to gkrieg. He goes on to vote for Robz, PPS, me again, Idplay. He never goes back to gkrieg.

So there you have it. I think that is our scum team. Add to that that LaLight's claim is itself highly unconfirmable and convenient.

it's just everyone is scummy and some people are more scummy than others

[LaLight]

faust, how is your claim even a little confirmable?

[LaLight]

looks very convenient as well, especially given that you claimed after IDPTG

[Galzria]

vote: gkrieg

I think the Robz lynch is safer, but I've agreed on Gkrieg since early D2 - and I agree with you here.

[faust]

L-1

[faust]

(If Hydrad's no-space vote counts)

[faust]

faust, how is your claim even a little confirmable?

Well I claimed 1-shot beast, and Idplay's item suggests there is more than one 1-shot beast.

[LaLight]

faust, how is your claim even a little confirmable?

Well I claimed 1-shot beast, and Idplay's item suggests there is more than one 1-shot beast.

Why can't scum be 1-shot beast as well?

[LaLight]

There is also the fact that everyone's calim tie in with one another or with the setup:

Idplay is connected via his item to me and PPS.
I have an item for EFHW.
Hydrad is probably par of the alignment switching, and his disguise fits with Idplay's ability.
mcmc has Galzria's sword.
Robz is an alignment-changer.

The only ones that do not fit are Haddock, LaLight, gkrieg. Haddock gets a bit of a pass because he softclaimed D2, and because his results fit with Galzria's commuting.

this looks to me like a flawed reasoning. I mean everyone is connected but it doesn't mean everyone is town. You having an item for EFHW and being 1-shot beast makes sense as scum as well. Hydrad can be scum who just knows about the disguises. Why else would he have no abilities whatsoever? Why does mcmc have Galzria sword? Maybe he's scum who stole it. Robz started as scum and may be scum as well, by the way.

I can say the same: all scums are tied in the setup and have items of toenies and all the normal people are just Trackers and Motion Detectors and how wrong would I be. I am town with a really useless power, that's why I never softclaimed it (except asking Robz in the beginning of the D2 how was his night because I didn't know how to play this role)

[LaLight]

I am town and I think y'all being played by faust. I think gkrieg is scum, I think faust is another one and whoever else is the third one.

[Hydrad]

Vote: gkrieg L-1

I'm townreading faust now. my biggest worry is the fact that hes not dead is for a scum read. And I don't think that is a good enough reason.

[Hydrad]

also if needed I guess we can rotate items like fausts claim to see if hes telling the truth if needed.

[faust]

I can say the same: all scums are tied in the setup and have items of toenies and all the normal people are just Trackers and Motion Detectors and how wrong would I be. I am town with a really useless power, that's why I never softclaimed it (except asking Robz in the beginning of the D2 how was his night because I didn't know how to play this role)

You did post that.

so Robz, how was your night?

Hrm. Well that makes your claim less cooked up.

But! Presumably something triggered Robz' option to change alignment. That something is a scum power, since we have no townies claiming it. So having targeted Robz is still... problematic.

[faust]

I am also left. I am Max, a good-aligned machine and a motion detector.

I have no idea how good is motion-detector in rmms but here we are: first night i targeted Robz, second night Haddock. Both had some motions there.

Also, the way I understand, Haddock's action failed N2. So depending on how this is resolved that might mean that he actually took no action, so it is not explained where the supposed motion on Haddock came from.

[faust]

I am town and I think y'all being played by faust. I think gkrieg is scum, I think faust is another one and whoever else is the third one.

What do you mean "whoever else"? The third one was obviously Robz - or, you know, still is.

[LaLight]

I am town and I think y'all being played by faust. I think gkrieg is scum, I think faust is another one and whoever else is the third one.

What do you mean "whoever else"? The third one was obviously Robz - or, you know, still is.

yeah, but someone else can be a scum if Robz is not. Hydrad could change alignment, or hydrad wasn't offered to change alignment, and, say, Haddock was and we don't know

[Galzria]

I can say the same: all scums are tied in the setup and have items of toenies and all the normal people are just Trackers and Motion Detectors and how wrong would I be. I am town with a really useless power, that's why I never softclaimed it (except asking Robz in the beginning of the D2 how was his night because I didn't know how to play this role)

You did post that.

so Robz, how was your night?

Hrm. Well that makes your claim less cooked up.

But! Presumably something triggered Robz' option to change alignment. That something is a scum power, since we have no townies claiming it. So having targeted Robz is still... problematic.

It's possible that I, as Jack, targeting Robz, as Ashi, triggered him to fall in love with me (alignment switch option). I know nothing of this, but it would be kinda thematic.

[LaLight]

But! Presumably something triggered Robz' option to change alignment. That something is a scum power, since we have no townies claiming it. So having targeted Robz is still... problematic.

So you presume, that I. as scum, targeted Robz to offer him to become town?

[LaLight]

I am also left. I am Max, a good-aligned machine and a motion detector.

I have no idea how good is motion-detector in rmms but here we are: first night i targeted Robz, second night Haddock. Both had some motions there.

Also, the way I understand, Haddock's action failed N2. So depending on how this is resolved that might mean that he actually took no action, so it is not explained where the supposed motion on Haddock came from.

Yes, I thought about that either. But given that Haddock softclaimed Tracker/Watcher, I think he might've been just Roleblocked. we don't know what power scums have

[faust]

But! Presumably something triggered Robz' option to change alignment. That something is a scum power, since we have no townies claiming it. So having targeted Robz is still... problematic.

So you presume, that I. as scum, targeted Robz to offer him to become town?

I don't know. It may just be an offer to change alignment, and you wouldn't know which way. That is what I found most likely. What Galzria said also makes sense from a flavor perspective though. But it would be weird to be this completely hidden mechanic.

So, I don't know. I am by no means convinced that you're scum. I think gkrieg is most definitely scum. We can work from there.

[faust]

I can say the same: all scums are tied in the setup and have items of toenies and all the normal people are just Trackers and Motion Detectors and how wrong would I be. I am town with a really useless power, that's why I never softclaimed it (except asking Robz in the beginning of the D2 how was his night because I didn't know how to play this role)

You did post that.

so Robz, how was your night?

Hrm. Well that makes your claim less cooked up.

But! Presumably something triggered Robz' option to change alignment. That something is a scum power, since we have no townies claiming it. So having targeted Robz is still... problematic.

It's possible that I, as Jack, targeting Robz, as Ashi, triggered him to fall in love with me (alignment switch option). I know nothing of this, but it would be kinda thematic.

It would make some sense that your neighborhoods provide extra powers to your neighbors. Like it could also be that you can turn mcmc into a samurai.

[faust]

Hydrad, will you give your item to LaLight?

[Hydrad]

Hydrad, will you give your item to LaLight?

sure.

Would you also give your item to someone?

[Hydrad]

actually I guess just incase the day ends right away or something could you send your item to IDPTG?

We can change who you send it to if we want and I'd like to pick me but I guess if I pick myself it could be seen as 2 scumbuddies confirming each other. IDPTG I don't have a real reason on why I picked them but I just kinda wanted to pick someone towny who I don't think scum would like to kill either.

[faust]

actually I guess just incase the day ends right away or something could you send your item to IDPTG?

We can change who you send it to if we want and I'd like to pick me but I guess if I pick myself it could be seen as 2 scumbuddies confirming each other. IDPTG I don't have a real reason on why I picked them but I just kinda wanted to pick someone towny who I don't think scum would like to kill either.

Can do. Of course I would also be interested in receiving Idplay's item but leave that decision up to him.

[LaLight]

who should I motion detect?

[LaLight]

I am thinking someone who isn't going to do anything this night, like... Robz?

[mcmcsalot]

Woah woah woah. Why are we lynching gkrieg isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill and aren’t we pretty sure robz is scum?

[Hydrad]

Actually unvote since I'm going to sleep. Mcmc makes me want to rethink this a bit but I can't yet.

[Hydrad]

Although I don't agree with robz being scum part. I beleive in robz right now.

[LaLight]

isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill?

Galz was commuted as well as Robz, Hydrad was bulletproof as well, how come gkrieg is the most likely?..

[faust]

isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill?

Galz was commuted as well as Robz, Hydrad was bulletproof as well, how come gkrieg is the most likely?..

Hydrad apparently wasn't targeted for a kill though, according to his own words.

[LaLight]

isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill?

Galz was commuted as well as Robz, Hydrad was bulletproof as well, how come gkrieg is the most likely?..

Hydrad apparently wasn't targeted for a kill though, according to his own words.

right. anyway, mcmc thinks gkrieg is a more likely nk target than Robz or Galz which is nonsense

[faust]

isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill?

Galz was commuted as well as Robz, Hydrad was bulletproof as well, how come gkrieg is the most likely?..

Hydrad apparently wasn't targeted for a kill though, according to his own words.

right. anyway, mcmc thinks gkrieg is a more likely nk target than Robz or Galz which is nonsense

Indeed.

[mcmcsalot]

isn’t he the most likely explaination for the missed kill?

Galz was commuted as well as Robz, Hydrad was bulletproof as well, how come gkrieg is the most likely?..

Sorry I missed that. Agreed galz would have been a likely target then. Still need to put some stuff together.

[LaLight]

my vla starts in 3 hours. I am, though, quite content with my vote for today

[faust]

I am thinking someone who isn't going to do anything this night, like... Robz?

Well whoever you target, you probably shouldn't let them know.

[Robz888]

Vote: gkrieg

[faust]

Hydrad unvoted, so I guess this is L-1 again.

[Haddock]

I.

Just.

Wow.  This is so far beyond me right now.
Let me see if rereading gets me anywhere.

I'm not against the gkrieg lynch but I am little scared of it. 

[Haddock]

So let me expand a bit on gkrieg. Now that we have the claiming out of the way, I can actually post a case.

The very first thing to notice is the claim. And for this, let me go on a bit of a tangent. When I got my role, I thought "well this is crap". 1-shot Bodyguard is really not very useful. Then PPS's role mirrored mine and I figured maybe there just is a bit of a theme of "various 1-shot protective roles". Which makes sense with having some powerful roles. Of course, Idplay's claimed item really wraps things up nicely because it means both PPS and me could have gotten the full role.

Now, gkrieg's claim. There is not much reason for someone to be randomly 1-shot BP. It's a boring role, and it doesn't tie in with anything else in an interesting way. But it makes sense for scum!gkrieg to see PPS's flip and decide that he wants to model his role on this. It also makes sense to for scum to cast doubt on who was targeted tonight (it is very unlikely still that gkrieg was targeted, so my money is on Galzria/Robz). At the time, with the knowledge he had, this would have seemed like a good fakeclaim for scum!gkrieg. Of course it got somewhat invalidated by first Idplay's claim - which means that things are not just randomly 1-shot in this setup - and then Hydrad's claim, which means there is actually a BP item.

With this in mind, let us look back at Day 2. At one point, we actually have a wagon on gkrieg. It consists of:

Galzria, Hydrad, PPS, Robz

Now there is a good deal of townies on here. Then comes this from LaLight:

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

which is a scummy post in and off itself, with weak reasoning. I think it is a partner trying to join the wagon so he will look better, without any intention of following through.

And, lo and behold, then Galzria hops off some time later, and immediately afterwards:

vote: faust, maybe this’ll work this time

LaLight leaves as well.

Over the course of the Day, LaLight continues to switch to various people, but never back to gkrieg. He goes on to vote for Robz, PPS, me again, Idplay. He never goes back to gkrieg.

So there you have it. I think that is our scum team. Add to that that LaLight's claim is itself highly unconfirmable and convenient.

I like this analysis and in spite of the breadcrumbing from Lalight you note later, I'd still prefer to vote Lalight than gkrieg.

gkrieg is a good lynch though.


I think Robz is being honest here.

[Haddock]

Guh.

Lalight would be a good lynch.
So would gkrieg.
So would mcmc.

In that order.

[mcmcsalot]

Haddock Beast - Tracker
Gkrieg Spirit - 1-shot BP, Item to watch from a prior night
IDPTG spirit - 1-shot Reveal Escence, Item to turn X-shot to nightly for beast
mcmc human - vanilla, Item Samurai Jacks Sword (vig for samurai)
faust beast - 1-shot bodyguard, Item Bagpipes (can be used by scotsman)
lalight machine - Motion detector
Hydrad machine - wearing evil disguise, Item one shot bp for machines
Galz human - neighborizer, Commuter Item
Robz human/demon - 2-shot self recruit and Killsmith
Datswan Beast - Item/Flavor Cop, 1-shot Item Swapper
EFHW human - Restless Spirit
PPS creature - 1-shot babysitter

Night one:
Haddock Tracked Faust saw Nothing (confirmed, Faust did nothing) (hydrad pushed for faust to claim that day 2)
IDPTG gave me Reveal Escence (confirmed I got it) (will confirm by using it tonight)
Lalight Motion detected robz and decteted motion (confirmed robz killsmithed galz and was neighborized by galz)
Galz Neighborized robz
Robz killsmithed galz

Night two:
Haddock Tracked Galz, got no result (confirmed galz commuted)
Faust Bodyguarded Galz and insinuated it worked by asking idptg if his item worked if the x-shots were used up
Lalight motion detected haddock and detected motion (confirmed haddock tracked galz)
Galz Commuted himself and Robz
Gkrieg Targeted Datswan and saw noone targeted him Night 1 (only explainable if someone has ninja kill)

So some house keeping

does a players action still occur if they target a commuted player? Would an X-shot be used up targeting a commuted player? Would a player who targeted a commuter appear to have taken an action for detection?

That should clear up the faust/haddock/lalight chain but I expect that it all works out.

THat does leave the strange thing that gkrieg saw noone targeting datswan. However ninja is a thematically understandable scum power.

[gkrieg13]

Y’all are going to quick lynch me while I’m asleep?  Really?  I haven’t even posted or been online since faust’s Case on me. At least let me respond. Let me get to a computer first though.

[mcmcsalot]

We have until July 25 to lynch. I don’t want to extend the day unnecessarily but I want to do some vote analysis. We have had multiple wagons to look at throughout the game.

[mcmcsalot]

Galz can you explain this?

On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary.

You claim that if you die we should lynch robz. But you have now claimed that your lover connection with robz only goes one way and that way is if you die robz dies. So there is no way you die and robz lives.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 3.2

McMcsalot (1): IDontPlayThisGame
gkrieg13 (4): faust, Lalight, Galzria, Robz888 (L-1)

not voting (5): Hydrad, McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13, Haddock

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Wednesday, July 25, 2018, 06:00:00 am

[iguanaiguana]

does a players action still occur if they target a commuted player? Would an X-shot be used up targeting a commuted player? Would a player who targeted a commuter appear to have taken an action for detection?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Please put future mod questions in a separate post.

[Galzria]

Galz can you explain this?

On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary.

You claim that if you die we should lynch robz. But you have now claimed that your lover connection with robz only goes one way and that way is if you die robz dies. So there is no way you die and robz lives.

Unless he's lying scum. If I die and he lives, then he never became town, never became a lover, and is confirmed scum.

[faust]

Guh.

Lalight would be a good lynch.
So would gkrieg.
So would mcmc.

In that order.

I hear you but I think LaLight has been townie lately.

[faust]

Y’all are going to quick lynch me while I’m asleep?  Really?  I haven’t even posted or been online since faust’s Case on me. At least let me respond. Let me get to a computer first though.

Also talk about feigned indignation. You have claimed, why should we not lynch you in your sleep?

[gkrieg13]

So let me expand a bit on gkrieg. Now that we have the claiming out of the way, I can actually post a case.

The very first thing to notice is the claim. And for this, let me go on a bit of a tangent. When I got my role, I thought "well this is crap". 1-shot Bodyguard is really not very useful. Then PPS's role mirrored mine and I figured maybe there just is a bit of a theme of "various 1-shot protective roles". Which makes sense with having some powerful roles. Of course, Idplay's claimed item really wraps things up nicely because it means both PPS and me could have gotten the full role.

Now, gkrieg's claim. There is not much reason for someone to be randomly 1-shot BP. It's a boring role, and it doesn't tie in with anything else in an interesting way. But it makes sense for scum!gkrieg to see PPS's flip and decide that he wants to model his role on this. It also makes sense to for scum to cast doubt on who was targeted tonight (it is very unlikely still that gkrieg was targeted, so my money is on Galzria/Robz). At the time, with the knowledge he had, this would have seemed like a good fakeclaim for scum!gkrieg. Of course it got somewhat invalidated by first Idplay's claim - which means that things are not just randomly 1-shot in this setup - and then Hydrad's claim, which means there is actually a BP item.

With this in mind, let us look back at Day 2. At one point, we actually have a wagon on gkrieg. It consists of:

Galzria, Hydrad, PPS, Robz

Now there is a good deal of townies on here. Then comes this from LaLight:

vote: gkrieg L-2

He is so under the radar i kinda forgot he’s in a game

which is a scummy post in and off itself, with weak reasoning. I think it is a partner trying to join the wagon so he will look better, without any intention of following through.

And, lo and behold, then Galzria hops off some time later, and immediately afterwards:

vote: faust, maybe this’ll work this time

LaLight leaves as well.

Over the course of the Day, LaLight continues to switch to various people, but never back to gkrieg. He goes on to vote for Robz, PPS, me again, Idplay. He never goes back to gkrieg.

So there you have it. I think that is our scum team. Add to that that LaLight's claim is itself highly unconfirmable and convenient.

The exact argument faust is using for my claim here applies to his claim as well.  He has claimed a boring 1-shot role.

Also if you look at his wagon, it consists of townie people with PPS, LaLight and Galzria.  Smaller wagon, but many of the same people.

Y’all are going to quick lynch me while I’m asleep?  Really?  I haven’t even posted or been online since faust’s Case on me. At least let me respond. Let me get to a computer first though.

Also talk about feigned indignation. You have claimed, why should we not lynch you in your sleep?

What is this even supposed to mean?  You want to lynch me where when I leave the game there are no votes on me, then I come back and am lynched?

[mcmcsalot]

Galz can you explain this?

On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary.

You claim that if you die we should lynch robz. But you have now claimed that your lover connection with robz only goes one way and that way is if you die robz dies. So there is no way you die and robz lives.

Unless he's lying scum. If I die and he lives, then he never became town, never became a lover, and is confirmed scum.

So then why would you commute?

[Galzria]

Galz can you explain this?

On to Robz - I don't want to lynch him... today. There are factors in play here that you, nor anybody else are aware of. If I do not die tonight, I will strongly consider revealing all the information I have tomorrow. If I do die tonight, you should lynch Robz tomorrow - no matter what he argues or says to the contrary.

You claim that if you die we should lynch robz. But you have now claimed that your lover connection with robz only goes one way and that way is if you die robz dies. So there is no way you die and robz lives.

Unless he's lying scum. If I die and he lives, then he never became town, never became a lover, and is confirmed scum.

So then why would you commute?

Because if he's not lying scum and I'm killed, he dies too. I fail to see how you're incapable of grasping these concepts. Following PPS's flip, protectionism was the obvious play of the night.

[IDontPlayThisGame]

Catching up soon

[iguanaiguana]

Per IDPTG's request, I have replaced IDPTG with SpaceAnemone, effective immediately.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 3.3

McMcsalot (1): SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (4): faust, Lalight, Galzria, Robz888 (L-1)

not voting (5): Hydrad, McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13, Haddock

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends Wednesday, July 25, 2018, 06:00:00 am

[Galzria]

Prod: Everybody

Can we please just finish the lynch of nothing is happening? Im V/LA for 5 days with no access whatsoever starting the 29th. If D4 begins on the 23rd, at least I'll be able to participate for the majority of it. If we sit here and literally do/say nothing for 4 more days, I'll miss almost the entirety of D4.

[faust]

Prod: Everybody

Can we please just finish the lynch of nothing is happening? Im V/LA for 5 days with no access whatsoever starting the 29th. If D4 begins on the 23rd, at least I'll be able to participate for the majority of it. If we sit here and literally do/say nothing for 4 more days, I'll miss almost the entirety of D4.

Well that is a problem, but given that we have a replacement it would also be niche to give them some time to catch up.

I guess I am fine with Space catching up at night. There is not much more to say and it's not like they could reveal some info that would suddenly make us not want to lynch gkrieg.

[iguanaiguana]

Prod sent to Hydrad, Lalight, Robz888, gkrieg13, Haddock, McMcsalot.

Mod edit: added Hydrad

[gkrieg13]

I still don’t get why my claim or voting patterns have been scummy.

[faust]

I still don’t get why my claim or voting patterns have been scummy.

Luckily, you are not the one who needs to get it.

[Robz888]

Did I really go 24 hrs without posting? Sheesh. I have nothing to say, we should lynch gkrieg. Please stop prodding people willy nilly.

[faust]

Did I really go 24 hrs without posting? Sheesh. I have nothing to say, we should lynch gkrieg. Please stop prodding people willy nilly.

The onus is really on people to post and not on people to not prod. By signing up to this game, you committed to posting once every 24 hours.

[Haddock]

Did I really go 24 hrs without posting? Sheesh. I have nothing to say, we should lynch gkrieg. Please stop prodding people willy nilly.

I'm with Robz on this one.
I contributed what I wanted to contribute a day ago, and was waiting on people to respond.

You can't just ignore what people have contributed for 2r hours then prod them because you want them to contribute differently.

[LaLight]

As i said I am vla will be here monday

[Haddock]

That said, though, I'm willing to lynch gkrieg; there's not much else to say there.
It's possible we're all just being expertly be played, but I'm not going to go against my gut on that possibility.

intent to hammer gkrieg
I'll hammer in a couple of hours unless someone gives me a compelling reasom not to.

[gkrieg13]

Whatever, if no one wants to look anywhere else, you can hammer me.

[mcmcsalot]

Im sorry I meant to look at more stuff and haven't gotten around to it.

[Galzria]

Did I really go 24 hrs without posting? Sheesh. I have nothing to say, we should lynch gkrieg. Please stop prodding people willy nilly.

Pleaae start playing and you won't get prodded.

[Galzria]

That said, though, I'm willing to lynch gkrieg; there's not much else to say there.
It's possible we're all just being expertly be played, but I'm not going to go against my gut on that possibility.

intent to hammer gkrieg
I'll hammer in a couple of hours unless someone gives me a compelling reasom not to.

If there's nothing left to say, then we should just lynch, not sit for 24+ hours without posting  .

[Haddock]

That said, though, I'm willing to lynch gkrieg; there's not much else to say there.
It's possible we're all just being expertly be played, but I'm not going to go against my gut on that possibility.

intent to hammer gkrieg
I'll hammer in a couple of hours unless someone gives me a compelling reasom not to.

If there's nothing left to say, then we should just lynch, not sit for 24+ hours without posting  .

Right but noone knows whether there's nothing left to say until we've waited to see if anyone has anything to say.

Jeez.

Hell I dunno if this is right but if it's the best we got and Lalight isn't viable.

vote: gkrieg

[iguanaiguana]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

McMcsalot (1): SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (5): faust, Lalight, Galzria, Robz888, Haddock

not voting (4): Hydrad, McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Thread Locked!

[iguanaiguana]

gkrieg13 has been lynched. He is still alive.

Night three starts now and last until Monday, July 23, 2018, 05:00:00 pm. Night actions are due on Monday, July 23, 2018, 09:00:00 am

[iguanaiguana]

I got slammed with an unexpected 13 hr shift. Day still can't start for a bit.

[iguanaiguana]

Just as dawn breaks, an image appears in everyone's mind. The image is of:

McMcsalot, who is Da Samurai, a good-aligned human.

Abilities: None

Items: None

He feels as though one day he could be a samurai.

Just as soon as the image appears, it disappears.  

[iguanaiguana]

Haddock died at night! He was an Imakandi, a good-aligned beast, and a tracker.

Day 4 Starts now!

Vote count 4.0

not voting (9): faust, Hydrad, McMcsalot, Spaceanemone, Lalight, EFHW, gkrieg13, Galzria, Robz888

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends, Monday, July 30, 2018, 09:30:00 pm

Thread unlocked!

[Robz888]

Vote: Gkrieg

[Galzria]

vote: Gkrieg

Anything to talk about today?

[Robz888]

Well, I guess it would be stupid to put him in a position to quick lynch until we make sure nobody has night info for us, so Unvote

[gkrieg13]

I have no idea what happened. I got a message saying I was saved by Aku’s foresight. My guess is that scum had the chance to stop a lynch but maybe they had to decide beforehand when to use it so they thought they were going to get lynched Yesterday?

[Robz888]

I have no idea what happened. I got a message saying I was saved by Aku’s foresight. My guess is that scum had the chance to stop a lynch but maybe they had to decide beforehand when to use it so they thought they were going to get lynched Yesterday?

Why would scum stop any lynch other than a scum lynch?

[gkrieg13]

I have no idea what happened. I got a message saying I was saved by Aku’s foresight. My guess is that scum had the chance to stop a lynch but maybe they had to decide beforehand when to use it so they thought they were going to get lynched Yesterday?

Why would scum stop any lynch other than a scum lynch?

It could be that they now have the numbers to pull something off but they didn’t yesterday. I’m not sure

[Robz888]

You are scum, sir.

[gkrieg13]

You are scum, sir.

I’m really not though.

[Galzria]

You are scum, sir.

I’m really not though.

We'll know soon enough

[Hydrad]

ok. i guess first things first. lalight i sent you my item. hopefully you got it.

I guess hopefully faust also sent his so we can confirm that.

[faust]

Wait. We do have a vig, right? Wouldn't that be better to use on gkrieg? I mean, I don't think it would be balanced for him to be double lynchproof, but better safe than sorry.

[faust]

ok. i guess first things first. lalight i sent you my item. hopefully you got it.

I guess hopefully faust also sent his so we can confirm that.

Ah, I forgot to send it. Next night then I guess.

[faust]

mcmc got revealed with no items, does that mean that you have your sword now, Galz?

[faust]

So we have:

- Galzria: Basically conf!town.
- mcmc: conf!town.
- Space formerly known as Idplay: Very much town due to confirming mcmc, and handing me an item.
- EFHW: Dead and conf!town.
- me: You know, hopefully quite townie by now.

Leaving only gkrieg, LaLight, Hydrad, Robz. PoE guides us to LaLight being almost certainly scum. Add to that that it's highly unlikely we have both a Tracker and a Motion Detector.

Vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

I received an item from hydrad, motion-detected mcmc and there was a motion, so he gave away the item.

Mcmc is not IC, he was confirmed to be what he is right now. This is good to bear in mind. Also vote: faust

[faust]

I received an item from hydrad, motion-detected mcmc and there was a motion, so he gave away the item.

Right so you just happened to motion detect the only thing that is confirmed anyway.

[LaLight]

I received an item from hydrad, motion-detected mcmc and there was a motion, so he gave away the item.

Right so you just happened to motion detect the only thing that is confirmed anyway.

I thought Galz would commute and i checked. I was waiting for the daystart to claim the first thing but it got delayed and i fell asleep.

I don’t think that everything is as easy as you say it. That would be just an unbalanced game.

[SpaceAnemone]

Good morning everyone!

also I just realised SA is not in the game

Sorry I'm a bit late :-P

I caught up on Sunday, meaning the last hammer had already happened by the time I read to the end. Seems like there's nothing useful to add because IDP revealed everything. I think it made sense, given his knowledge about his one-shot, for him to be voting mcmc yesterday, but I also think that mcmc is more likely to be town having seen his reveal. Yes, there's still the possibility of a disguise, but then there are other people looking potentially scum-like too, to I'm trying not to get too hung up on that.

My biggest scumread over the course of my reading through the game was Haddock, so that's not terribly useful. There may be a bit of bias there what with being friends IRL, though also his stated reads just differed quite widely from mine at times. I did make a note that he's the only claimed beast no to have a role that incorporates a one-shot at all, which made more more suspicious.. and as a result of that, I felt more trusting of faust's beast role, so I sent him the item that lets his one-shot turn into a nightly thing, as he's already indicated.

[faust]

My biggest scumread over the course of my reading through the game was Haddock, so that's not terribly useful. There may be a bit of bias there what with being friends IRL

Then there is hope to convince you to vote for LaLight!

[faust]

I don’t think that everything is as easy as you say it. That would be just an unbalanced game.

Sure, let us throw all evidence out of the window and vote randomly because "not everything is as easy as I say it".

[SpaceAnemone]

My biggest scumread over the course of my reading through the game was Haddock, so that's not terribly useful. There may be a bit of bias there what with being friends IRL

Then there is hope to convince you to vote for LaLight!

You and gkrieg are lovely IRL too, so I have plenty of voting options ;-)

Maybe we should plan some kind of a couch-surf across the USA so we can meet some of the others who missed the Berlin gathering...

[mcmcsalot]

So mafia have some way to steal items. I attempted to give the sword to galz but it failed because I lost the sword. So we do not have a vig.

My guess on gkrieg is that he was 1-shot lynchproof and not 1-shot bulletproof and he lied to look towny.

I think the game would be super unbalanced if he was full lynchproof and we had to get the sword to jack to kill him.

[faust]

So mafia have some way to steal items. I attempted to give the sword to galz but it failed because I lost the sword. So we do not have a vig.

My guess on gkrieg is that he was 1-shot lynchproof and not 1-shot bulletproof and he lied to look towny.

I think the game would be super unbalanced if he was full lynchproof and we had to get the sword to jack to kill him.

Well, in that case Vote: gkrieg I suppose.

[Galzria]

So mafia have some way to steal items. I attempted to give the sword to galz but it failed because I lost the sword. So we do not have a vig.

My guess on gkrieg is that he was 1-shot lynchproof and not 1-shot bulletproof and he lied to look towny.

I think the game would be super unbalanced if he was full lynchproof and we had to get the sword to jack to kill him.

Well, in that case Vote: gkrieg I suppose.

Sorry, intentionally delayed my response to you waiting to hear from Mcmc, but yes, this is correct.

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 4.1

gkrieg13 (2): Galzria, faust
faust (1): Lalight

not voting (6): Hydrad, McMcsalot, Spaceanemone, EFHW, gkrieg13, Robz888

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 4 ends, Monday, July 30, 2018, 09:30:00 pm

[LaLight]

vote: gkrieg

[LaLight]

L-2

[Galzria]

Hold before hammering please, confirming something with Mcmc.

[Galzria]

Alright, go ahead and light 'em up.

[SpaceAnemone]

Hey, I thought I posted this before, but I must've made half a post and then closed some browser tabs...

Anyway, Galz, did I miss that you've neighbourised mcmc or something?

[mcmcsalot]

Yes we are in a qt together, there is almost nothing that would change my current town read of galz. I think we are good to head to night as long as everyone who was supposed to give or get items has claimed what happened.

vote: gkrieg

[mcmcsalot]

L-1

[Robz888]

vote: gkrieg

[iguanaiguana]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

gkrieg13 (5): Galzria, faust, Lalight, McMcsalot, Robz888

not voting (4): Hydrad, Spaceanemone, EFHW, gkrieg13

With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.

Thread Locked.

[iguanaiguana]

gkrieg13 was Aku, an evil-aligned spirit, and the shapeshifting master of disguise.

Night Four begins now and ends Thursday, July 26, 2018, 05:30:00 pm Night actions are due by Thursday, July 26, 2018, 09:30:00 am

[iguanaiguana]

SpaceAnemone has died in the night! They were Tam Sung, a good-aligned spirit, and a 1-shot granter of reveal essence.

Day 5 Starts now!

Vote count 5.0

not voting (7): faust, Hydrad, McMcsalot, Lalight, EFHW, Galzria, Robz888

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends, Thursday, August 02, 2018, 05:30:00 pm

Thread unlocked!

[Hydrad]

Hello.

I'm alive.

Feel bad for space who got like 2 posts lol.

[Galzria]

Hello.

I'm alive.

Feel bad for space who got like 2 posts lol.

Not surprised by the kill at all tbh.

[Hydrad]

so. In my opinion I think the only people it could be is lalight and faust.

Like basically everyone else is almost conftown to me.

[Hydrad]

well I guess you could include me as well in that. but I'm not including myself.

[Galzria]

so. In my opinion I think the only people it could be is lalight and faust.

Like basically everyone else is almost conftown to me.

Robz could still be scum. We have no idea really. But he's not part of the Mafia team most likely unless Mafia could use the sword last night and targeted him for a secondary kill that recruited him.

It's not worth considering right now though - or until we lynch the final original member. Likewise you could be town that converted to scum - but also not worth considering at this time.

Other than that, I completely agree with you.

[Galzria]

For the record, on the topic of number of scum:

2 scum in 9 is standard
3 scum in 13 is standard
2 1/2 (Traitor) in 12 with Robz increased strength is about par.

Taking into account alignment switches, if we started at 3 1/2 scum with the possibility for town to turn scum, that's a potential for 5 of 12 players to be scum. Far too unrealistic. If we assume 2 1/2 scum with the possibility for town to turn scum, that's a potential for 4 players (3 1/2 scum) to be scum - a little high, but not crazy if town runs well. With IDPTG's power, Datswan's power, Haddock's power, and potentially LaLight's power, that's certainly a reasonable chance. On the flip side, assuming Robz goes town, scum could be weakened to 2 players in 12. Definitely a little weak - but also accounted for by Gkrieg being lynch proof and possibly bullet proof as well. Add in a higher than average potential for a Vig to hit town here and it's all pretty balanced.

All that is to say we EITHER started at 2 1/2 scum with double alignment switch possible (most likely), or 3 1/2 scum and there's no town -> scum mechanic.

Personally I find the former more likely.

[LaLight]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

[faust]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

[faust]

Oh wait I just checked my QT...

Apparently scum stole both my items before I could use the first. So I am actually completely powerless.

[Galzria]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

Why did you target Mcmc last night knowing that I had neighborized him and was going to commute us?

[LaLight]

I obviously think faust lies, but how come there was no stealing and there is now? either there's no stealing at all and mcmc lies along with faust, or someone changed factions and became thief.

[LaLight]

Oh wait I just checked my QT...

Apparently scum stole both my items before I could use the first. So I am actually completely powerless.

What was your second item?

[faust]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

Why did you target Mcmc last night knowing that I had neighborized him and was going to commute us?

I always figured that your commute was 1-shot and you didn't want to tell scum, because everything else would be OP. You're telling me you can always commute?

[faust]

Oh wait I just checked my QT...

Apparently scum stole both my items before I could use the first. So I am actually completely powerless.

What was your second item?

Bagpipes usable by only EFHW. I have talked about it before somewhere.

[LaLight]

Oh wait I just checked my QT...

Apparently scum stole both my items before I could use the first. So I am actually completely powerless.

What was your second item?

Bagpipes usable by only EFHW. I have talked about it before somewhere.

ah right

[faust]

Anyways I probably need to make clear that am I not scum, and why. There are several points about my play that should make this clear.

- my early claim makes total sense with my weak role. It didn't matter much for me to be outed, but I thought I could throw scum off balance. It kinda worked I think, if EFHW hadn't decided that she ought to be lynched.
- I have obviously alluded to my item being usable by a Scotmans duringn D1, before EFHW's flip. So obviously I had this item. Now how much sense does it make for scum to have an item that helps only EFHW? When would they ever give it away? No, the item only makes real sense in town hands.
- when DatSwan was killed, I suggested gkrieg is scum because DatSwan scumread gkrieg. Everyone dismissed that. It was correct. Would I pull this as scum, trying to protect partner!gkrieg with a NK just to immediately incriminate him again?
- maybe the most relevant is my D3 claim. I claimed early that I didn't stop the kill. Scum knew they had to claim protective if they didn't want to ICfy Galzria + possibly another player. So I forced gkrieg's hand into a claim that got him lynched. There is little benefit in that for scum.

[faust]

Other thoughts.

- mcmc is every more certainly town. gkrieg flipped something with disguise, so he was the scum who had a disguise. I seriously doubt that two scum would have a town disguise as it would render Idplay/Space's role virtually useless.
- many things point to Galzria's townieness, but increasingly his role sounds too good to be true. Still the only other reason might be that scum actually recruited N2 and this is the reason why there was no kill. Which would imply a Galzria/Robz scumteam. This is something that I want to focus my energy on today I think, we have to exclude this possibility if at all possible
- it is still very likely that LaLigt is the second regular scum, but for now unvote until some time I've had time for a reread.

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[mcmcsalot]

Hmm

[Robz888]

Other thoughts.

- mcmc is every more certainly town. gkrieg flipped something with disguise, so he was the scum who had a disguise. I seriously doubt that two scum would have a town disguise as it would render Idplay/Space's role virtually useless.
- many things point to Galzria's townieness, but increasingly his role sounds too good to be true. Still the only other reason might be that scum actually recruited N2 and this is the reason why there was no kill. Which would imply a Galzria/Robz scumteam. This is something that I want to focus my energy on today I think, we have to exclude this possibility if at all possible
- it is still very likely that LaLigt is the second regular scum, but for now unvote until some time I've had time for a reread.

From your perspective if Galz is scum I would have to be scum, recall that I had a Killsmith result on him, and he couldn't kill. I.e., not scum.

[Robz888]

I think we're picking between faust and LaLight here. I'm sort of leaning toward faust but I'm not sure.

[Galzria]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

Why did you target Mcmc last night knowing that I had neighborized him and was going to commute us?

I always figured that your commute was 1-shot and you didn't want to tell scum, because everything else would be OP. You're telling me you can always commute?

Why do you think that it would be OP to be either a neighborizer OR a neighborhood commuter? Obviously if I'm commuted I can't also neighborize as I am incapable of targeting anyone else - likewise I prevent any possible actions from my neighbor who, in all fairness, I most likely don't know the alignment of. Further, as it's an item that allows the commuting, and we've confirmed item stealing is in the game, I'm not even guaranteed to have the power forever.

[Galzria]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

Why did you target Mcmc last night knowing that I had neighborized him and was going to commute us?

I always figured that your commute was 1-shot and you didn't want to tell scum, because everything else would be OP. You're telling me you can always commute?

Why do you think that it would be OP to be either a neighborizer OR a neighborhood commuter? Obviously if I'm commuted I can't also neighborize as I am incapable of targeting anyone else - likewise I prevent any possible actions from my neighbor who, in all fairness, I most likely don't know the alignment of. Further, as it's an item that allows the commuting, and we've confirmed item stealing is in the game, I'm not even guaranteed to have the power forever.

Not to mention I'm not a full neighborizer - The neighborhoods I create only last for the following day/night cycle.

[Galzria]

To quote Robz:

So the thing about mcmc faust is, he's scum.

Let's start with his vote history. For the purposes of this exercise, Robz is going to be painted GREEN, as that is what his alignment would be considered from a mafia perspective (They wouldn't know he was a traitor and a "bad" vote):

D1:
Robz (#35), Galzria (#84), LaLight (#125), EFHW (#148), LaLight (#242), EFHW (#275)

D2:
IDPTG (#386), PPS (#598), IDPTG (#615), PPS (#722)

D3:
Gkrieg

D4:
LaLight (#1044), Gkrieg (#1053)

----------

Next, some quick Vote Count Tracking. Let's just look at end of day stuff for ease and (ha) brevity:

Day One Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): McMcsalot
Hydrad (1): IDontPlayThisGame
Lalight (1): Haddock
EFHW (7): faust, Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, EFHW, gkrieg13, Pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
gkrieg13 (1): DatSwan

---

Day Two Final Vote Count

Robz888 (2): McMcsalot, gkrieg13
gkrieg13 (2): Hydrad, pingpongsam
faust (1): Lalight
pingpongsam (6): Galzria, Robz888, Haddock, faust, EFHW, IDontPlayThisGame


---

Day 3 Final Vote Count

McMcsalot (1): SpaceAnemone
gkrieg13 (5): faust, Lalight, Galzria, Robz888, Haddock

not voting (4): Hydrad, McMcsalot, EFHW, gkrieg13

---

Day 4 Final Vote Count

gkrieg13 (5): Galzria, faust, Lalight, McMcsalot, Robz888

not voting (4): Hydrad, Spaceanemone, EFHW, gkrieg13

---

First things first: This should come as a shock to nobody, but Hydrad is NOT Gkrieg's natural partner. There is almost no scenario where he pushes Gkrieg D2 (and ends on Gkrieg's wagon), and then fails to be part of his lynch on back to back days. That leaves faust and LaLight (surprise!). D1 & D2 faust ends the day on both town wagons, and LaLight is on faust - that isn't really all that important, except that it looks slightly better for LaLight (very slight). Many of us were on both D1 & D2 town lynches though, so I'm not going to pretend to paint faust scummy because of that alone. What IS notable is that the D2 lynch contains all town + faust. If you believe faust to be town, you must believe that was a 100% town wagon. Impossible? No. Super likely though? Also no.

Working under the assumption that Faust is scum here (and thus LaLight is likely town), it's easy to see in faust's voting pattern that he spread his vote around as much as possible - creating as many different wagons as possible. 4 different people on D1, and 2 others exclusively on D2. That's 6 players, all of whom are likely town here. Faust always had outs, always had wagons and other people to push. He made certain never to have the need to push Gkrieg.

So, why the change in approach from scum!faust D3? End game potential and town cred. This was the day of the mass-claim. Scum had just discovered where my sword was, and he knew they could steal it. He also knew that Gkrieg was lynch-proof. Pushing Gkrieg here would buy him town cred if they couldn't end game (at worst), and would hopefully allow scum to get a free NK on Night 3, along with an attempt to steal the sword. My guess here is that Gkrieg wasn't 1-shot death proof, but was BOTH 1-shot lynch proof AND 1-shot Bullet Proof. I'm also guessing that Gkrieg was the one capable of stealing the sword, which would explain why faust didn't yet know if I had the sword on D4 or if Gkrieg had been successful in stealing it. If I had the sword (and not Gkrieg), then the push to lynch LaLight D4 would've allowed scum to lynch town, and then for my shot to fail on a bullet proof Gkrieg - we would be here today with 6 alive (4 to lynch), with 2 known living scum, and the possibility for Robz to be scum (making it 3v3) still to endgame town - not to mention we don't know if there's been a conversion the other way.

But what about the rest of the game? Does it support a faust/Gkrieg team? Well, I think D2 is the key to explaining that yeah, it really does. D2 was the day when we had the greatest chance of lynching Gkrieg early. I was insistent on the lynch being Gkrieg or Faust, and we ran the Gkrieg wagon up to 4 votes (with, by the way, LaLight being vote #4 - not impossible for a scum teammate trying to actively defend by wagoning to cause cold feet - but definitely not what I would expect from LALIGHT in particular as scum, and definitely not as scummy as faust during this time):

Vote count 2.2

Robz888 (3): IDontPlayThisGame, EFHW, pingpongsam
IDontPlayThisGame (1): faust
gkrieg13 (4): Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888, Lalight

not voting (3): McMcsalot, gkrieg13, Haddock

Note that at this point, scum was not on wagon for Robz. In addition, the remaining scum was not choosing not to vote. So either Gkrieg's partner was on Gkrieg's wagon, or faust is Gkrieg's partner.

But what was faust saying/doing during this time?

He was scummy yesterday, is scummy today, and had a scumm-ily timed vote on EFHW.
vote: Gkrieg

Great case bro.

How is the timing of gkrieg's vote (which, for people who are interested, was after EFHW's claim) more scummy than Haddock's or PPS's (PPS did not actually vote, but expressed willingness)?

Why is faust suddenly defending gkrieg?

I don't like the ease with which the wagon has sprung up - after I said I found him scummy and without much of a case at all - while my vote on Idplay that is just as good was ignored. And I'm still wary of Galzria.

I'm not ok with the big wagons forming yet, there's still more to discuss.  See below:

I don't know how big wagons are preventing us from discussing stuff. I'd rather have more happen than to wait for you to finish your 1-post-a-day discussion of things until we're out of time.

I want faust to say what he did last night, because as it stands my role-information from last night is pointing in the direction of scum!faust.

Well okay then. I took no action.

Fascinating how interested Faust was in a Gkrieg lynch as long as Gkrieg didn't have any votes on him. The moment the lynch might be a thing, Faust backtracked real quick.

I always get cold feet when my preferred lynch choice attracts lots of votes for no reason. You still haven't answered my question why his EFHW vote was scummy. Or, I think you didn't. I don't have the best track record noticing your answers this game.

Can anyone explain how any of the current lynch choices is a better pick than Idplay?

Deflection, deflection and more deflection. And this is after he had called (weakly) Gkrieg scummy at the start of the day (while simultaneously calling me scummy in the same post - the point on me being the only one he followed up with throughout the day).

But wait! Partners go both ways. We've looked at faust pretty extensively here, let's look at how Gkrieg viewed faust:

Gkrieg's vote history:

D1:
faust (#28), Robz (#50), faust (#155),  Hydrad (#227), EFHW (#308)

---

D2:
IDPTG (#567), Haddock (#570), Robz (#659)

---

And... that's it. He never cast a vote on D3 or D4. So, with the exception of the Hydrad vote D1, Gkrieg voted entirely for town... and faust. Is it possible faust is town and Gkrieg never voted for his partner LaLight ever? Sure.

But here's the thing. There are a LOT of things that all need to work in faust's favor for him to be town here:

1) Gkrieg never voted for partner LaLight, despite having no reason not to (separation cred is a thing)
2) LaLight pushed Gkrieg to L-2 D2 when he could've done... nothing - meanwhile, faust would've been town unfortunately deflecting from scum
3) At the point of Gkrieg's highest wagon D2, his partner would've been actively choosing to bus instead of voting somewhere (anywhere) else
4) The lynch of PPS at the end of D2 would've been 100% town
5) LaLight would need to be a scum motion detector, otherwise he got lucky guessing that there was motion around Robz N1 (I had yet to claim to have targeted Robz N1 when LaLight claimed)

And really... just... yeah.

Extra things about faust:
- We have no idea if his role claim is true or not. It's entirely unverifiable.
- We have no idea if his item is true or not. It's entirely possible that he made the item up before the game began to use as a fakeclaim.
- It's entirely possible that the item he had DID exist, but doesn't do what he claims. It could've, perhaps, allowed EFHW to change alignment if it ended up in her hands.
- His case on LaLight is kinda based around LaLight's PR "not being likely with a Tracker in play"... and yet LaLight's PR is repeatedly verifiable and has been consistent and accurate each night, so...

So.

The thing about faust is, he's scum.

vote: faust

[Robz888]

Yeah, Galzria is articulating basically what I was thinking, especially the whole fighting the Day 2 gkrieg wagon thing. I second this case.

[EFHW]

vote: Robz

[faust]

vote: Robz

Yeah, EFHW is articulating basically what I was thinking

[faust]

To quote Robz:

So the thing about mcmc faust is, he's scum.

Let's start with his vote history. For the purposes of this exercise, Robz is going to be painted GREEN, as that is what his alignment would be considered from a mafia perspective (They wouldn't know he was a traitor and a "bad" vote):

There is no reason to think that. a) We don't know that Robz is actually Traitor. b) Mafia knows Traitor is always an option.

[faust]

Note that Galzria was unable to argue against any of the points I brought up that point to me being town, and instead builds his case on me not voting for gkrieg.

[faust]

Working under the assumption that Faust is scum here (and thus LaLight is likely town), it's easy to see in faust's voting pattern that he spread his vote around as much as possible - creating as many different wagons as possible.

This is the revealing bit. Galzria does not want to find out if I am scum - he works under the assumption that I am and tries to builds a narrative.

[faust]

For the point raised in that, I spread my voe around in any of my games.

[faust]

And I will not be able to contribute more today. VLA. Do not lynch me, listen to your IC at least.

[Galzria]

For the point raised in that, I spread my voe around in any of my games.

We're still in a QT. I didn't commute last night. We've talked this over.

[faust]

- We have no idea if his role claim is true or not. It's entirely unverifiable.

BS. Idplay's item confirms my role.

- We have no idea if his item is true or not. It's entirely possible that he made the item up before the game began to use as a fakeclaim.
- It's entirely possible that the item he had DID exist, but doesn't do what he claims. It could've, perhaps, allowed EFHW to change alignment if it ended up in her hands.

Of course anything's possible. That doesn't do anything.

- His case on LaLight is kinda based around LaLight's PR "not being likely with a Tracker in play"... and yet LaLight's PR is repeatedly verifiable and has been consistent and accurate each night, so...

Most of the time he confirmed what we or scum already knew. When did he actually provide information that would be unknown to both

[Galzria]

Note that Galzria was unable to argue against any of the points I brought up that point to me being town, and instead builds his case on me not voting for gkrieg.

False. I refuted all of them.

[faust]

For the point raised in that, I spread my voe around in any of my games.

We're still in a QT. I didn't commute last night. We've talked this over.

So if scum has stealing, and I am scum, why do you still have your item?

[Galzria]

Working under the assumption that Faust is scum here (and thus LaLight is likely town), it's easy to see in faust's voting pattern that he spread his vote around as much as possible - creating as many different wagons as possible.

This is the revealing bit. Galzria does not want to find out if I am scum - he works under the assumption that I am and tries to builds a narrative.

I did the same for everybody in my QT with Mcmc. You're the only one that fit, so the only one I did here.

[Galzria]

For the point raised in that, I spread my voe around in any of my games.

We're still in a QT. I didn't commute last night. We've talked this over.

So if scum has stealing, and I am scum, why do you still have your item?

Because you assumed I commuted. You couldn't target me.

[Galzria]

For the point raised in that, I spread my voe around in any of my games.

We're still in a QT. I didn't commute last night. We've talked this over.

So if scum has stealing, and I am scum, why do you still have your item?

Because you assumed I commuted. You couldn't target me.

To be more precise:

Either it was 1-shot so trying to steal it was pointless, or it wasn't and you couldn't steal it anyway.

[Galzria]

- We have no idea if his role claim is true or not. It's entirely unverifiable.

BS. Idplay's item confirms my role.

- We have no idea if his item is true or not. It's entirely possible that he made the item up before the game began to use as a fakeclaim.
- It's entirely possible that the item he had DID exist, but doesn't do what he claims. It could've, perhaps, allowed EFHW to change alignment if it ended up in her hands.

Of course anything's possible. That doesn't do anything.

- His case on LaLight is kinda based around LaLight's PR "not being likely with a Tracker in play"... and yet LaLight's PR is repeatedly verifiable and has been consistent and accurate each night, so...

Most of the time he confirmed what we or scum already knew. When did he actually provide information that would be unknown to both

Datswan and PPS were both one-shot beasts. IDPTG's item confirms nothing about you.

LaLight confirmed motion around Robz N1 before anything was claimed regarding such.

[Hydrad]

oh man. well I'm fine for voting either faust or lalight still. I don't really care which. as even if they are both town we are still not lost (once again I guess hoping that robz isn't scum. but I really feel like hes not scum). although I highly doubt they are both town in my opinion.

even if robz is scum I still almost think we lynch from someone else because we have to find the other scum anyways and once we do then we can auto lynch robz if game isn't over yet.

[EFHW]

vote: Hydrad

Vote: Robz

[mcmcsalot]

oh man. well I'm fine for voting either faust or lalight still. I don't really care which. as even if they are both town we are still not lost (once again I guess hoping that robz isn't scum. but I really feel like hes not scum). although I highly doubt they are both town in my opinion.

even if robz is scum I still almost think we lynch from someone else because we have to find the other scum anyways and once we do then we can auto lynch robz if game isn't over yet.

I agree with this

[EFHW]

Vote: mcmc

VOTE: ROBZ

[EFHW]

vote: mcmc

VOTE: ROBZ

[Galzria]

vote: mcmc

VOTE: ROBZ

Robz is a bad lynch because he's a solved player the moment I die. Either he dies too and is town, or doesn't and is scum.

Even if the concern with keeping him alive is that we might triple kill town via a mislynch today and my death at night - a mislynch today means I'll be commuting Mcmc and myself for sure tonight. Further, in this scenario where he's town, lynching him now instead of just lynching scum is a dumb option.

And yes, this is all coming from a person that still thinks there's at least equal likelihood that's he's still scum and not town. But even if he is, there's still Gkrieg's natural teammate out there. Robz is NOT that person - and at this time we shouldn't be wasting time on a coinflip lynch of Robz when he's solved the moment that either I, or Gkrieg's natural partner die (assuming here that there hasn't been other alignment flipping).

Which, also, speaking of alignment flipping, is something you may have done - something for everyone to keep in mind.

[EFHW]

vote: Galzria

Vote Robz

[iguanaiguana]

Vote count 5.1

faust (2): Lalight, Galzria
Lalight (1): faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW

not voting (3): Hydrad, McMcsalot, Robz888

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 5 ends, Thursday, August 02, 2018, 05:30:00 pm

[Robz888]

EFHW being scum would be petty hilarious.

[Galzria]

EFHW being scum would be petty hilarious.

Like, 75% unlikely - but hilarious.

[Galzria]

My complete no access begins tomorrow. My last check in will likely be somewhere around noon forum time. As I'm pretty convinced on faust (and yes, I've fully explored all other options in my QT with Mcmc), I do not plan on moving my vote before then. I'll be completely without access until shortly after deadline. Unfortunate, but it is what it is. Luckily I don't see my vote moving for anything short of mcmc's request, and I've asked him to let me know asap if he prefers my vote get moved.

[Hydrad]

sure

Vote: faust L-1

[EFHW]

vote: Hydrad
vote: Galzria
VOTE: ROBZ

[Robz888]

I’m acknowledging the l-1 but not hammering because I think more discussion would be beneficial.

[Galzria]

I’m acknowledging the l-1 but not hammering because I think more discussion would be beneficial.

What do you plan to discuss?

[faust]

I’m acknowledging the l-1 but not hammering because I think more discussion would be beneficial.

So it's only the two of you?

[faust]

Okay I still do not have the time or energy to deal with this right now. I am VLA. I think I can spend some time on this tomorrow.

The most important bit to remember is that my early claim D3 makes no sense for scum. Literally zero.

[faust]

It is still completely possible that Galz and Robz are both town. I would like Hydrad to unvote to give me some time, could you do that? Or LaLight, but not holding up much hope there.

[Hydrad]

unvote

[Galzria]

At the time faust will be back, I will be completely off grid.

[faust]

Time to settle the score. Bolded are my replies.

First things first: This should come as a shock to nobody, but Hydrad is NOT Gkrieg's natural partner. There is almost no scenario where he pushes Gkrieg D2 (and ends on Gkrieg's wagon), and then fails to be part of his lynch on back to back days.
Not that I picture Hydrad as the partner, but I fail to see why this would be what makes it unlikely.

That leaves faust and LaLight (surprise!). D1 & D2 faust ends the day on both town wagons, and LaLight is on faust - that isn't really all that important, except that it looks slightly better for LaLight (very slight). Many of us were on both D1 & D2 town lynches though, so I'm not going to pretend to paint faust scummy because of that alone.
Still you are going to pretend to paint me scummy because of it.

 What IS notable is that the D2 lynch contains all town + faust. If you believe faust to be town, you must believe that was a 100% town wagon. Impossible? No. Super likely though? Also no.
This is super wrong and misleading. First - we know one scum was off. Second - Robz and you are colored green in your overview. Both of you are not confirmed town. If we do assume that you are town and we dismiss Robz because he's at most a Traitor (which is still faulty logic), then still all we're left with is you saying gkrieg's partner is very likely to be on the wagon. Why? Scum didn't need to be on the wagon, and scum stays away from that when they can.

Working under the assumption that Faust is scum here (and thus LaLight is likely town), it's easy to see in faust's voting pattern that he spread his vote around as much as possible - creating as many different wagons as possible. 4 different people on D1, and 2 others exclusively on D2. That's 6 players, all of whom are likely town here.
You are only saying that if LaLight is town and I am scum, then I am scum. I think it is very likely - no, guaranteed - that there was at least 1 scum amongst the people I voted for D1. Add on top that I always switch around votes. That's not scummy.

Faust always had outs, always had wagons and other people to push. He made certain never to have the need to push Gkrieg.
gkrieg was mostly absent and I didn't scumread him.

So, why the change in approach from scum!faust D3? End game potential and town cred.
All this is plain BS. I have made my first claim - not being responsible for the missing NK - well before we agreed to massclaim. I then pushed for a massclaim which might not have happened otherwise that pinned down gkrieg. There is literally no reason for scum town do that. It doesn't help in any endgame because I would have IC'd you, which would clearly be terrible. It helps for towncred? Well yes, otherwise I could not argue that I am town for this. BUt is a bit of towncred worth outing a partner and creating an IC? No, no, no.

This was the day of the mass-claim. Scum had just discovered where my sword was, and he knew they could steal it. He also knew that Gkrieg was lynch-proof. Pushing Gkrieg here would buy him town cred if they couldn't end game (at worst), and would hopefully allow scum to get a free NK on Night 3, along with an attempt to steal the sword.
So the "best case" scenario here is outing a partner for another nightkill, when otherwise scum might have a mislynch AND another kill? And the worst case is even more terrible? Why would I go for that plan?

My guess here is that Gkrieg wasn't 1-shot death proof, but was BOTH 1-shot lynch proof AND 1-shot Bullet Proof. I'm also guessing that Gkrieg was the one capable of stealing the sword, which would explain why faust didn't yet know if I had the sword on D4 or if Gkrieg had been successful in stealing it.
Not sure how much use this theorycrafting is anyway, but that role sounds a bit OP, and there was nothing in it suggesting he could steal. There was something in it suggesting Godfather powers.

If I had the sword (and not Gkrieg), then the push to lynch LaLight D4 would've allowed scum to lynch town, and then for my shot to fail on a bullet proof Gkrieg - we would be here today with 6 alive (4 to lynch), with 2 known living scum, and the possibility for Robz to be scum (making it 3v3) still to endgame town - not to mention we don't know if there's been a conversion the other way.
There's also an obsession with the sword and I'm not sure why. The way I see it, only you and mcmc ever would have had the option to use it.

But what about the rest of the game? Does it support a faust/Gkrieg team? Well, I think D2 is the key to explaining that yeah, it really does. D2 was the day when we had the greatest chance of lynching Gkrieg early. I was insistent on the lynch being Gkrieg or Faust, and we ran the Gkrieg wagon up to 4 votes (with, by the way, LaLight being vote #4 - not impossible for a scum teammate trying to actively defend by wagoning to cause cold feet - but definitely not what I would expect from LALIGHT in particular as scum, and definitely not as scummy as faust during this time):
Have you even looked at LaLight's vote? It super reads like jumping a partner for cred.
[...]
Deflection, deflection and more deflection. And this is after he had called (weakly) Gkrieg scummy at the start of the day (while simultaneously calling me scummy in the same post - the point on me being the only one he followed up with throughout the day).
This is just a long-winded thing of saying I am scummy for having defended gkrieg that one day. That is too easy. If you look at your own play as scum, you will see that you much more often bus your partners than you defend them. Now do I sometimes defend my partners as scum? Sure. But if I spend such effort building a town narrative for gkrieg D2, then why would I out him the following day?

D1:
faust (#28), Robz (#50), faust (#155),  Hydrad (#227), EFHW (#308)

---

D2:
IDPTG (#567), Haddock (#570), Robz (#659)

---

And... that's it. He never cast a vote on D3 or D4. So, with the exception of the Hydrad vote D1, Gkrieg voted entirely for town... and faust. Is it possible faust is town and Gkrieg never voted for his partner LaLight ever? Sure.
I am scummy for defending gkrieg. I am scummy for (presumably) only voting for town. Then you make the argument that scum wouldn't only vote for town, and I am also scummy for that. You're just cherry-picking the arguments that fit the narrative.

1) Gkrieg never voted for partner LaLight, despite having no reason not to (separation cred is a thing)
Again, I never voted for gkrieg, and you think I am scummy for that. How does that make sense?
2) LaLight pushed Gkrieg to L-2 D2 when he could've done... nothing - meanwhile, faust would've been town unfortunately deflecting from scum
Yes. That's perfectly reasonable.
3) At the point of Gkrieg's highest wagon D2, his partner would've been actively choosing to bus instead of voting somewhere (anywhere) else
Are you just trying to make more points? That says the same as 2.
4) The lynch of PPS at the end of D2 would've been 100% town
5) LaLight would need to be a scum motion detector, otherwise he got lucky guessing that there was motion around Robz N1 (I had yet to claim to have targeted Robz N1 when LaLight claimed)
LaLight can safely claim that there was a motion and if noone confirms just go "well, must've been scum then".

Generally, you can make a list of things that need to be true for literally any player to be town that will be unlikely. The sum of all events that happened this game is unlikely to have happened. If we started a new game, you would say those are unlikely to happen. But the thing is, we do know that some things happened. Conditional probability is completely ignored in the list above. It also completely fails to mention the reasons why I am unlikely to be scum.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Faust

[EFHW]

unvote: faust
unvote: faust
unvote: faust
vote: Robz

[faust]

vote: Faust

You have been lulled in by Galzria. I guess it was to be expected.

[faust]

Unfortunately... I really don't think Galzria is scum. Scum stealing the sword would not make any sense then.

So I think I'm pretty much dead already, but scum won't have an extra kill, so it won't lose the game.

[faust]

EFHW being scum would be petty hilarious.

Like, 75% unlikely - but hilarious.

More like 99% unlikely.

[faust]

vote: faust, there was a motion there. Can we lynch him now?

Well I received Space's item and got my 1-shot power made permanent... so certainly there would be a motion. I targeted mcmc, which turned out to be the wrong choice.

Anyway I don't really see how it couldn't be LaLight, so vote: LaLight

Why did you target Mcmc last night knowing that I had neighborized him and was going to commute us?

I always figured that your commute was 1-shot and you didn't want to tell scum, because everything else would be OP. You're telling me you can always commute?

Why do you think that it would be OP to be either a neighborizer OR a neighborhood commuter? Obviously if I'm commuted I can't also neighborize as I am incapable of targeting anyone else - likewise I prevent any possible actions from my neighbor who, in all fairness, I most likely don't know the alignment of. Further, as it's an item that allows the commuting, and we've confirmed item stealing is in the game, I'm not even guaranteed to have the power forever.

It was by the way in no way clear from your claim that your role worked this way.

[faust]

I guess Galz is gone and wrong.

LaLight is still scum. I can think this over and over, but Galzria is not scum, and only one of Robz/Hydrad is scum.

So the player I have to convince in order to prevent desaster is mcmc. But what can I say, I have laid it out already. I have singlehandedly outed gkrieg. It makes no sense, absolutely none, for scum!me to do that. This is the important information. Everything else is just noise.

[faust]

I also acknowledge EFHW wants me to vote Robz, but I am at L-1 and Robz isn't voting for me. The moment I do vote for him, I'm dead.

[LaLight]

Hi guys, sorry I was absent, I was at a wedding. I also think we're in a clearly good position.

[mcmcsalot]

unvote

[mcmcsalot]

Ugh I’m terrible for having taken this long to decide to be giving this the attention that it needs.

I think Faust is scum. I think robz is very likely scum.

There is no way that Faust is scum with a non robz partner.
There is a possibility that robz is scum with a non Faust partner.

We are at 6 players and possibly 2 scum. Again the only way there is two scum is if robz is scum with someone else.

Meaning the most intelligent play is that we lynch robz. If he’s town we open tomorrow with 3 town and 1 scum.

I think that’s the correct play unless I missed where galz laid out that there could be a Faust plus non robz scum team left.

[LaLight]

Ugh I’m terrible for having taken this long to decide to be giving this the attention that it needs.

I think Faust is scum. I think robz is very likely scum.

There is no way that Faust is scum with a non robz partner.
There is a possibility that robz is scum with a non Faust partner.

We are at 6 players and possibly 2 scum. Again the only way there is two scum is if robz is scum with someone else.

Meaning the most intelligent play is that we lynch robz. If he’s town we open tomorrow with 3 town and 1 scum.

I think that’s the correct play unless I missed where galz laid out that there could be a Faust plus non robz scum team left.

Thing is Hydrad may be scum. Say, from my perspective, it's faust + Robz/Hydrad. So lynching faust looks like the best course of action here

[mcmcsalot]

But do you think it’s really possible the Faust/gkrieg/hydrad are scum with robz being a traitor in a 12 person game? Robz says he was scum who turned to town. Meaning he would count toward scum team totals even before he was in their qt which he claimed he could do by self recruiting.

It would mean a mislynch day 1, plus nk leaves us at 4 scum, 6 town, mislynch day 2 plus nightkill is a loss. 2 nislynches and loss is ridiculous.

I guess efhw’s restless spirit comes into play because on day 3:

Robz/Gkrieg, (Faust/Hydrad/Lalight), space/mcmc/galz were all alive. Meaning if two of the group is scum we were at 4s, 4T and efhw’s vote is all that kept us from being endgamed. I doubt this is possible.

[mcmcsalot]

Never mind I am wrong. If we mislynch Faust today we do not lose. Say Faust is town and for ease of explanation robz and lalight are scum.

Mislynch Faust plus hydrad nightkill would leave us with robz/lalight vs me and galz with 4 Alive it takes 3
To lynch me/galz plus efhw lynch scum for the win.

It is only because we have a restless spirit to break scum ties that we are in a really secure spot here. I am fine with vote: faust

[faust]

well goodbye.

[faust]

whatever I say is not going to get acknowledged by anyone, so please go ahead and lynch me already.

[LaLight]

But do you think it’s really possible the Faust/gkrieg/hydrad are scum with robz being a traitor in a 12 person game? Robz says he was scum who turned to town. Meaning he would count toward scum team totals even before he was in their qt which he claimed he could do by self recruiting.

It would mean a mislynch day 1, plus nk leaves us at 4 scum, 6 town, mislynch day 2 plus nightkill is a loss. 2 nislynches and loss is ridiculous.

I guess efhw’s restless spirit comes into play because on day 3:

Robz/Gkrieg, (Faust/Hydrad/Lalight), space/mcmc/galz were all alive. Meaning if two of the group is scum we were at 4s, 4T and efhw’s vote is all that kept us from being endgamed. I doubt this is possible.

You don’t account for the probability for Hydrad to change alignment if and only if Robz turns to town? That’d be balanced.

[LaLight]

But do you think it’s really possible the Faust/gkrieg/hydrad are scum with robz being a traitor in a 12 person game? Robz says he was scum who turned to town. Meaning he would count toward scum team totals even before he was in their qt which he claimed he could do by self recruiting.

It would mean a mislynch day 1, plus nk leaves us at 4 scum, 6 town, mislynch day 2 plus nightkill is a loss. 2 nislynches and loss is ridiculous.

I guess efhw’s restless spirit comes into play because on day 3:

Robz/Gkrieg, (Faust/Hydrad/Lalight), space/mcmc/galz were all alive. Meaning if two of the group is scum we were at 4s, 4T and efhw’s vote is all that kept us from being endgamed. I doubt this is possible.

I mean if we lynch Robz and he turns out to be town, I’d say that makes Hydrad most certainly scum

[Robz888]

Vote: Faust

Too much talk of lynching Robz.

[LaLight]

Vote: Faust

Too much talk of lynching Robz.

well, you're up next and supposedly we win on this (:

[faust]

#LynchLaLight

[iguanaiguana]

Day 5 Final vote count

faust (4): Lalight, Galzria, McMcsalot, Robz888
Lalight (1): faust
Robz888 (1): EFHW

not voting (1): Hydrad

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

faust was a Woolie, a good-aligned beast and a 1-shot bodyguard.

Night five begins now and endsg at August 01, 2018, 06:30:00 am Night actions are due 8 hours before deadline.

Thread locked!

[iguanaiguana]

McMcsalot has died in the night! He was Da Samurai, a good-aligned human who had no abilities.

Day 6 starts now!

Vote count 6.0

not voting (5): Hydrad, Lalight, EFHW, Galzria, Robz888

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 6 ends, Wednesday, August 08, 2018, 07:00:00 am

Thread unlocked!

[LaLight]

I md'ed Hydrad, there was no motion.

[LaLight]

not voting just beacuse we can be in LyLo. Though I don't see the world with town!Robz. And Galz, weren't you commuting? Along with mcmc? What happened?

[LaLight]

I still don't really believe faust was town, I think something really strange is happening

[LaLight]

I am not scum. Is EFHW scum? Is Galzria scum in the end playing us all?

[LaLight]

this all reminds me the British Bonkers game where scum played us all and my vote ended the game with a loss

[LaLight]

Robz/Galzria scum-team looks very, very probable right now

[LaLight]

Galz, why didn't you commute?

[Robz888]

Uhh.... okay. Well, my scum pool is LaLight/Hydrad, with the possibly quite likely chance they are both scum. As such, this is pretty much game over, since EFHW thinks I'm scum, I believe.

I'm directing this to Galz, then: Galz, I know you think I'm probably scum, but the scum team must be more than two people if it includes me! Therefore one of LaLight or Hydrad must also be scum. Obviously, if you think I'm scum, then from your perspective I'm going to steer you to the wrong one. Therefore, I'm inclined not to try to really hash it out with you, and will instead just follow your lead (from my town perspective they are probably both scum, so it doesn't matter). Make sense?

[Robz888]

EFHW... not sure what to do say to you. Don't vote for me, I'm not scum!

[Robz888]

Also, we are so doomed it's quite hilarious. I love this game.

[LaLight]

Uhh.... okay. Well, my scum pool is LaLight/Hydrad, with the possibly quite likely chance they are both scum. As such, this is pretty much game over, since EFHW thinks I'm scum, I believe.

I'm directing this to Galz, then: Galz, I know you think I'm probably scum, but the scum team must be more than two people if it includes me! Therefore one of LaLight or Hydrad must also be scum. Obviously, if you think I'm scum, then from your perspective I'm going to steer you to the wrong one. Therefore, I'm inclined not to try to really hash it out with you, and will instead just follow your lead (from my town perspective they are probably both scum, so it doesn't matter). Make sense?

Why should Galz choose one of us from this perspective if he knows you are scum?

[Galzria]

Confirming life. Back home tonight.

[Hydrad]

well. i wanna lynch lalight because I feel like he has to be scum here.

But now I'm getting slightly worried that robz is scum just because galz isn't dead yet. Why would scum not take a double night kill if they could.

I'm starting to think its lalight and robz is still scum.

which means we can still go lalight and if robz is still scum we still win because we can vote him next day.

The biggest reason I thought robz wasn't scum was because I'm still really sure I could be turned to scum and I'm still town. So I assumed that because I didn't turn robz must of lost his power. But now I'm thinking that he had already used both of his shots trying to find who he could turn as scum and when I outed myself as being able to be turned he wasn't able to turn me anymore.

Either way I'm still most likely going lalight here first.

[Galzria]

Quick thoughts. I'm interested in people's take on these, but not really in debating them.

First: My commute was, in fact, 1-shot. Used early, couldn't use again to save myself or Mcmc.

Second: I think two nights ago it wasn't worth risking the shot against me from scum's perspective not knowing the above to be true or not.

Third: I think that last night it was worth risking it because I was VLA and there was a solid chance (based on what I had stated) that even if it wasn't 1-shot, I wouldn't be able to get a night action in. This is mostly and inconsequentially true - I pre-submitted my night action to neighborize Mcmc again, but had absolutely no access until today.

Fourth: If you're risking that I'm not , or can't be, commuting, then why shoot Mcmc over me, when my death could enable a double kill? This leans pretty strongly towards Robz being scum, but I'll look at the other options here too:

Say LaLight is scum with Robz. He kills me, there's no chance Robz doesn't get lynched today. Zero. Same story for Hydrad as scum with Robz. So if Robz is scum, killing me is out of the question. That leaves Mcmc or Hydrad/LaLight. Not killing Mcmc here would almost certainly result in the instant lynch of the remaining player, yes? If LaLight had killed Hydrad or vice versa, then almost certainly it would've ended poorly for scum - Mcmc and I both would've voted for the remaining player (not Robz), and if the game still didn't end, then Robz on the final day. Does anybody disagree with this? Thus the only logical kill is Mcmc.

But that's all scum!Robz analysis though. Let's look at town!Robz. Here, the choice not to kill me last night is based entirely around framing Robz today. Had we both died last night, the game would now be Hydrad/LaLight/Mcmc - and this is fine for scum, unless they're certain that Mcmc gets it right. So instead, they kill Mcmc, try to frame Robz, hope we mislynch him, kill me at night, and end with LaLight/Hydrad.

Mod Question: In the instance of 1 Town Player, 1 Scum Player, and 1 Restless Spirit, would the game end?

If the game is over, then mis-lynching Robz is definitely the play for scum here - that's probably an easier sell than facing off against Mcmc.

Here's the catch:

If there are two scum left, Robz+X, and the answer to my question is that the game would be over, then we've already lost - lynch either scum today, the remaining scum kills me, and it's 1v1 tomorrow. Unless that scum can't kill. This is notable only because it's possible that scum!traitor!Robz doesn't have an inheritable kill once all remaining scum are dead. If the answer to my question is that the game would end then:

Either Robz can't be scum
Or
Robz can't kill as scum

And in either case lynching him is the wrong play

If the answer to my question is that the game would continue, then killing Robz is absolutely the correct play, as it would allow EFHW to have the final decision between Hydrad and LaLight on the final day.

I italicized the above because that was Mcmc's last suggestion to me in our QT. He also strongly believed LaLight to be the final scum, but thought it better to lynch Robz today.

I want to think on things some more. Like what if there's only one scum left, and it's Robz. Would he have killed Hydrad instead of Mcmc to frame LaLight? After lynching LaLight today he would've gone 1v1 against me or Mcmc with EFHW the deciding vote - which he loses. Although he probably loses all 1v1's with EFHW deciding to be fair.

I also want to consider LaLight's claim some more.

For now, shower, food, and bed.

[Galzria]

If Robz is town: LaLight's intro into this day fits the scum-trying-to-frame Robz scenario here. Hence the kill on Mcmc and not me. It also fits a scum-Robz narrative with LaLight as his partner (whether he knows Robz is scum or not) - in that he doesn't see himself winning a 1v1 with Hydrad right now, but could be hoping to gain town cred for pushing a scum!Robz lynch.

It doesn't make sense from a town!LaLight standpoint however, as he should be almost certain Hydrad is scum. Except that he claimed to MD Hydrad and saw no motion. This would lead him to believe that Robz is scum. Hmm...

[Galzria]

Hydrad on the other hand, comes in wanting to vote LaLight. If Hydrad is scum with Robz that's reasonable. That's really his only lynch choice here. If he's not scum with Robz, then I would've expected him to try to frame Robz as being scum - using the fact that scum didn't kill me for the double kill as justification for Robz being scum.

Although it's possible Hydrad is scum and doesn't know about Robz' alignment. Not wanting to out Robz, he killed Mcmc, and here he's following through with the logical mis-lynch option for him in LaLight.

[Galzria]

So, here's the deal:

If Iguana indicates that a 1v1 with a Spirit continues the game - I'm lynching  Robz, as per Mcmc's request to me. If he's scum, great, EFHW can choose who to lynch tomorrow. If he's not scum, oh well, EFHW can choose who to lynch tomorrow.

If Iguana indicates that a 1v1 with a Spirit is end game - I'm lynching LaLight, as per faust's request, and because of a vast number of other reasons. The most notable of which:

Hydrad cannot be scum.

Thanks, LaLight. Either you're scum and Hydrad is town, or you're town and MD'd Hydrad, confirming him as town by having no motion.

If Iguana says he cannot answer my question, I'm lynching LaLight, because it's pretty clear that EFHW is not alive and does not count as a living player and thus cannot actually matter in a 1v1 situation.

.....

And now that I've typed it, I've realized it's all moot. Even if Iguana says the game continues, LaLight has confirmed Hydrad is town. Assuming we were to lynch Robz and he flips either as town or scum - EFHW has confirmation that Hydrad is town, and thus LaLight is confirmed scum anyway.

So... no need to wait I guess.

vote: LaLight

[LaLight]

So, here's the deal:

If Iguana indicates that a 1v1 with a Spirit continues the game - I'm lynching  Robz, as per Mcmc's request to me. If he's scum, great, EFHW can choose who to lynch tomorrow. If he's not scum, oh well, EFHW can choose who to lynch tomorrow.

If Iguana indicates that a 1v1 with a Spirit is end game - I'm lynching LaLight, as per faust's request, and because of a vast number of other reasons. The most notable of which:

Hydrad cannot be scum.

Thanks, LaLight. Either you're scum and Hydrad is town, or you're town and MD'd Hydrad, confirming him as town by having no motion.

If Iguana says he cannot answer my question, I'm lynching LaLight, because it's pretty clear that EFHW is not alive and does not count as a living player and thus cannot actually matter in a 1v1 situation.

.....

And now that I've typed it, I've realized it's all moot. Even if Iguana says the game continues, LaLight has confirmed Hydrad is town. Assuming we were to lynch Robz and he flips either as town or scum - EFHW has confirmation that Hydrad is town, and thus LaLight is confirmed scum anyway.

So... no need to wait I guess.

vote: LaLight

First question is why would I do this as scum. Second question is WHY WOULD I DO THIS AS SCUM. Third question is he can be ninja. But the first two questions still stand. I don't lie, I md'ed Hydrad. If mislynch ends the game, why wouldn't I just say I saw Robz' motion? How does this add up?

[LaLight]

let's vote: Galzria. This all adds up if you're scum. With Robz.

[LaLight]

I just hope EFHW and Hydrad can see beyond initial surety of everyone that you're town for some reason. You also lied about commuting and we don't really have any proof you really commuted

[LaLight]

it's just if you're scum and played us this good, now I am the easiest mislynch and mad props and scum!MVP for you Galz. But I don't see how (except if Hydrad is ninja) you and Robz can not be scum.

[Galzria]

Can't really work your way out of this one, sorry LaLight.

Robz and I can't be scum together, because the game would be over.

A) I would have my sword, stolen from Mcmc, and there would've been extra kills.

B) 2v2, even with a Spirit, would be endgame - unless I'm wrong and EFHW counts as a person in a 1v1 end game scenario - which would be weird, as there are very clearly 4 alive, not 5. Even if we were scum and you lynched one of us, one of you would then die at night (well, both, because again - sword), thus leaving 1v1 at best for you.

C) I can't be scum solo, because the day Robz told me in our QT that he was a traitor I would've said "Hey great, I'm scum bro!". No scenario where scum!me lets scum!Robz turn himself town.

D) If I can't be scum with Robz (game over already), and I can't be scum solo (see above), then I can't be scum. Plus, also, you know, duh

[Galzria]

I just hope EFHW and Hydrad can see beyond initial surety of everyone that you're town for some reason. You also lied about commuting and we don't really have any proof you really commuted

You forget that Haddock tracked me the night I commuted and received no result. Different from no action. Can't result a commuted man.

Guh, fine. Don't know what I've done to deserve that scumread but whatever.

I am an ImaKandi: a beast and a Tracker.
N1 I tracked Faust and he took no action. (Hence my initial D2 scumread of him which reversed when he was honest about that.)
N2 I tracked Galz and got no result. I think I can guess why but I guess that can wait for gkrieg's claim.

[LaLight]

Can't really work your way out of this one, sorry LaLight.

Robz and I can't be scum together, because the game would be over.

A) I would have my sword, stolen from Mcmc, and there would've been extra kills.

B) 2v2, even with a Spirit, would be endgame - unless I'm wrong and EFHW counts as a person in a 1v1 end game scenario - which would be weird, as there are very clearly 4 alive, not 5. Even if we were scum and you lynched one of us, one of you would then die at night (well, both, because again - sword), thus leaving 1v1 at best for you.

C) I can't be scum solo, because the day Robz told me in our QT that he was a traitor I would've said "Hey great, I'm scum bro!". No scenario where scum!me lets scum!Robz turn himself town.

D) If I can't be scum with Robz (game over already), and I can't be scum solo (see above), then I can't be scum. Plus, also, you know, duh

 

A) I totally forgot about sword. But wait, if you fakeclaim, you can't use the sword and there won't be extrakills.

B) I don't know why you think game would be over, EFHW has her vote.

C) Who knows what you told him? If you're both scum, you're both scum.

[LaLight]

ok then. I have no slightest idea what's going on, but scum wins this one I guess.

[LaLight]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

[LaLight]

vote: Hydrad

[LaLight]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

usually I just claim stuff asap and people see I am town, this is impossible with this role

[Galzria]

Can't really work your way out of this one, sorry LaLight.

Robz and I can't be scum together, because the game would be over.

A) I would have my sword, stolen from Mcmc, and there would've been extra kills.

B) 2v2, even with a Spirit, would be endgame - unless I'm wrong and EFHW counts as a person in a 1v1 end game scenario - which would be weird, as there are very clearly 4 alive, not 5. Even if we were scum and you lynched one of us, one of you would then die at night (well, both, because again - sword), thus leaving 1v1 at best for you.

C) I can't be scum solo, because the day Robz told me in our QT that he was a traitor I would've said "Hey great, I'm scum bro!". No scenario where scum!me lets scum!Robz turn himself town.

D) If I can't be scum with Robz (game over already), and I can't be scum solo (see above), then I can't be scum. Plus, also, you know, duh

 

A) I totally forgot about sword. But wait, if you fakeclaim, you can't use the sword and there won't be extrakills.

B) I don't know why you think game would be over, EFHW has her vote.

C) Who knows what you told him? If you're both scum, you're both scum.

A) You're not going to reasonably argue that I've fake claimed flavor at this point. Not to mention your argument would hinge on the item, which clearly belongs to me, that I knew existed on D1, would serve no purpose this game as Mcmc couldn't use it, and no other player has claimed or flipped Samurai.

B) It's very clear why this would be assumed. She's not a living player, and thus can only vote while the game is ongoing. Put another way - assume she's scum - if all other scum are lynched and there are 2 town left, would the game continue? They could still vote each other and she could hammer. No, of course not. That's silly. Dead players are dead. Just because she can vote doesn't make her a factor in this.

C) Again, can't both be scum - the game would be over.

[LaLight]

Mod Question: if a person puts up disguise and gets lunched, do we see a disguise or his/her actual role?

[LaLight]

lunched

Dinnered obviously

[Galzria]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

Your result for N1, while correct, was arbitrary. If nobody had claimed to target Robz, you easily could've suggested that scum (Gkrieg here) must've stolen from Robz N1 or targeted him in some fashion (RB, RC, JK, anything).

N3 I'm guessing you stole from Mcmc for two reasons:

A) To get the sword. Definitely the right play here. Don't want that falling into hands that can use it.

B) To safely check whether I commuted without wasting your kill on the possibility that I could/did.

[Galzria]

lunched

I'm more of a second breakfast type person.
Dinnered obviously

[Galzria]

lunched

Dinnered obviously

I'm more of a second breakfast type person.

And I'm obviously very bad at quoting.

[LaLight]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

Your result for N1, while correct, was arbitrary. If nobody had claimed to target Robz, you easily could've suggested that scum (Gkrieg here) must've stolen from Robz N1 or targeted him in some fashion (RB, RC, JK, anything).

N3 I'm guessing you stole from Mcmc for two reasons:

A) To get the sword. Definitely the right play here. Don't want that falling into hands that can use it.

B) To safely check whether I commuted without wasting your kill on the possibility that I could/did.

question is why nothing was stolen before N3.

Also explain, how all my targets made sense from scum!perspective? I md'ed Robz then Haddock, then mcmc, then faust then Hydrad. Those were my scumreads.

[Galzria]

ok then. I have no slightest idea what's going on, but scum wins this one I guess.

If that's the case, then that's unfortunate. Although well played. Things will have needed to play out quite well for them though, and I'll be quite excited to see all the post game stuff.

[LaLight]

ok then. I have no slightest idea what's going on, but scum wins this one I guess.

Things will have needed to play out quite well for them though

yeah, just people voting for me :/

[LaLight]

I mean can you just believe me? Hydrad claimed he has no abilities whatsoever other than 1-shot Bulletproof Item, can this even be the case in RMM?

[Galzria]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

Your result for N1, while correct, was arbitrary. If nobody had claimed to target Robz, you easily could've suggested that scum (Gkrieg here) must've stolen from Robz N1 or targeted him in some fashion (RB, RC, JK, anything).

N3 I'm guessing you stole from Mcmc for two reasons:

A) To get the sword. Definitely the right play here. Don't want that falling into hands that can use it.

B) To safely check whether I commuted without wasting your kill on the possibility that I could/did.

question is why nothing was stolen before N3.

Also explain, how all my targets made sense from scum!perspective? I md'ed Robz then Haddock, then mcmc, then faust then Hydrad. Those were my scumreads.

Robz & Haddock didn't have items. N1, N2. Mcmc had his items stolen. N3. Faust had his items stolen. N4.

Your claimed MD targets match perfectly with potential thievery. And you're never wrong about Motion around said players.

[LaLight]

he can be a ninja stealer

[LaLight]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

Your result for N1, while correct, was arbitrary. If nobody had claimed to target Robz, you easily could've suggested that scum (Gkrieg here) must've stolen from Robz N1 or targeted him in some fashion (RB, RC, JK, anything).

N3 I'm guessing you stole from Mcmc for two reasons:

A) To get the sword. Definitely the right play here. Don't want that falling into hands that can use it.

B) To safely check whether I commuted without wasting your kill on the possibility that I could/did.

question is why nothing was stolen before N3.

Also explain, how all my targets made sense from scum!perspective? I md'ed Robz then Haddock, then mcmc, then faust then Hydrad. Those were my scumreads.

Robz & Haddock didn't have items. N1, N2. Mcmc had his items stolen. N3. Faust had his items stolen. N4.

Your claimed MD targets match perfectly with potential thievery. And you're never wrong about Motion around said players.

Of course I am never wrong, this is my role, mod doesn't lie.

How exactly dumb should I be to claim my own stealing targets if I am the stealer?

[Galzria]

I mean can you just believe me? Hydrad claimed he has no abilities whatsoever other than 1-shot Bulletproof Item, can this even be the case in RMM?

He's claimed Miller. Not exactly a great defense for him, but still. It's a role.

[LaLight]

I mean sometimes I really didn't want to claim my targets because I thought that would put me into the scummy light :/ but i never lied

[LaLight]

I mean can you just believe me? Hydrad claimed he has no abilities whatsoever other than 1-shot Bulletproof Item, can this even be the case in RMM?

He's claimed Miller. Not exactly a great defense for him, but still. It's a role.

We don't have a cop.

[LaLight]

you want to tell me the only usage of his role would be if IDPTG targeted him? Really?

[Galzria]

no result was also because of anything that can go on in this game. who steals stuff and why on N3? How did my result be exact on N1?

Your result for N1, while correct, was arbitrary. If nobody had claimed to target Robz, you easily could've suggested that scum (Gkrieg here) must've stolen from Robz N1 or targeted him in some fashion (RB, RC, JK, anything).

N3 I'm guessing you stole from Mcmc for two reasons:

A) To get the sword. Definitely the right play here. Don't want that falling into hands that can use it.

B) To safely check whether I commuted without wasting your kill on the possibility that I could/did.

question is why nothing was stolen before N3.

Also explain, how all my targets made sense from scum!perspective? I md'ed Robz then Haddock, then mcmc, then faust then Hydrad. Those were my scumreads.

Robz & Haddock didn't have items. N1, N2. Mcmc had his items stolen. N3. Faust had his items stolen. N4.

Your claimed MD targets match perfectly with potential thievery. And you're never wrong about Motion around said players.

Of course I am never wrong, this is my role, mod doesn't lie.

How exactly dumb should I be to claim my own stealing targets if I am the stealer?

Only kind of. Had you claimed motion elsewhere (or none), you ran the risk of being called out ("Actually, I DID take an action last night" or "That's weird, how can there be motion when nobody targeted said player")

Also, it's hard to really argue those were your scum reads. Look at your voting history through D4:

Hydrad, Mcmc, faust, faust, Gkrieg, faust, Robz, PPS, faust, IDPTG, faust, faust, Gkrieg, faust, Gkrieg

No votes Robz D1, or Haddock D1 or D2. And while you had a single vote on Mcmc D1, it would've been silly to MD him as a scum read D3 when you knew he was IC'ing himself (or not) D4. I mean, why would you target someone to check for motion that you knew was going to be using an item and creating motion? Like, what did you hope to learn here?

Whereas it makes sense that you were stealing the sword...

[Galzria]

you want to tell me the only usage of his role would be if IDPTG targeted him? Really?

Swan.

[Galzria]

I mean sometimes I really didn't want to claim my targets because I thought that would put me into the scummy light :/ but i never lied

I don't believe that you've lied even s single time about your targets, or there being motion.

[Hydrad]

like I don't feel like I'm going to change my mind about lalight. I'm pretty sure I'm voting him no matter what. should I wait or does it really matter.

[LaLight]

like I don't feel like I'm going to change my mind about lalight. I'm pretty sure I'm voting him no matter what. should I wait or does it really matter.

So you don't vote to seem more townlike?

[iguanaiguana]

Mod Question: if a person puts up disguise and gets lunched, do we see a disguise or his/her actual role?

I can't answer questions about disguise mechanics in thread.

[iguanaiguana]

Quick thoughts. I'm interested in people's take on these, but not really in debating them.

First: My commute was, in fact, 1-shot. Used early, couldn't use again to save myself or Mcmc.

Second: I think two nights ago it wasn't worth risking the shot against me from scum's perspective not knowing the above to be true or not.

Third: I think that last night it was worth risking it because I was VLA and there was a solid chance (based on what I had stated) that even if it wasn't 1-shot, I wouldn't be able to get a night action in. This is mostly and inconsequentially true - I pre-submitted my night action to neighborize Mcmc again, but had absolutely no access until today.

Fourth: If you're risking that I'm not , or can't be, commuting, then why shoot Mcmc over me, when my death could enable a double kill? This leans pretty strongly towards Robz being scum, but I'll look at the other options here too:

Say LaLight is scum with Robz. He kills me, there's no chance Robz doesn't get lynched today. Zero. Same story for Hydrad as scum with Robz. So if Robz is scum, killing me is out of the question. That leaves Mcmc or Hydrad/LaLight. Not killing Mcmc here would almost certainly result in the instant lynch of the remaining player, yes? If LaLight had killed Hydrad or vice versa, then almost certainly it would've ended poorly for scum - Mcmc and I both would've voted for the remaining player (not Robz), and if the game still didn't end, then Robz on the final day. Does anybody disagree with this? Thus the only logical kill is Mcmc.

But that's all scum!Robz analysis though. Let's look at town!Robz. Here, the choice not to kill me last night is based entirely around framing Robz today. Had we both died last night, the game would now be Hydrad/LaLight/Mcmc - and this is fine for scum, unless they're certain that Mcmc gets it right. So instead, they kill Mcmc, try to frame Robz, hope we mislynch him, kill me at night, and end with LaLight/Hydrad.

Mod Question: In the instance of 1 Town Player, 1 Scum Player, and 1 Restless Spirit, would the game end?

If the game is over, then mis-lynching Robz is definitely the play for scum here - that's probably an easier sell than facing off against Mcmc.

Here's the catch:

If there are two scum left, Robz+X, and the answer to my question is that the game would be over, then we've already lost - lynch either scum today, the remaining scum kills me, and it's 1v1 tomorrow. Unless that scum can't kill. This is notable only because it's possible that scum!traitor!Robz doesn't have an inheritable kill once all remaining scum are dead. If the answer to my question is that the game would end then:

Either Robz can't be scum
Or
Robz can't kill as scum

And in either case lynching him is the wrong play

If the answer to my question is that the game would continue, then killing Robz is absolutely the correct play, as it would allow EFHW to have the final decision between Hydrad and LaLight on the final day.

I italicized the above because that was Mcmc's last suggestion to me in our QT. He also strongly believed LaLight to be the final scum, but thought it better to lynch Robz today.

I want to think on things some more. Like what if there's only one scum left, and it's Robz. Would he have killed Hydrad instead of Mcmc to frame LaLight? After lynching LaLight today he would've gone 1v1 against me or Mcmc with EFHW the deciding vote - which he loses. Although he probably loses all 1v1's with EFHW deciding to be fair.

I also want to consider LaLight's claim some more.

For now, shower, food, and bed.

EFHW is not alive. Any faction wins when their win condition is met.

[Hydrad]

like I don't feel like I'm going to change my mind about lalight. I'm pretty sure I'm voting him no matter what. should I wait or does it really matter.

So you don't vote to seem more townlike?

sure I guess you could say that. especially since I am town.

Either way I'm going to sleep.

[LaLight]

What if we already lynched one of the scums disguised by town and only Robz is left

[Hydrad]

Well one last thing before I sleep then. I myself am disguised and it just mentions that if an investigation is used on me I will show up as scum. It says nothing about the flip.

[LaLight]

Well one last thing before I sleep then. I myself am disguised and it just mentions that if an investigation is used on me I will show up as scum. It says nothing about the flip.

Given that there is no town/scum investigation that seems weird.

[EFHW]

unvote: Lalight

[Galzria]

Alright, Iguana's response means there can't be two scum left.

Robz, Hydrad, please vote LaLight. Let's find out the truth.

[LaLight]

Alright, Iguana's response means there can't be two scum left.

Robz, Hydrad, please vote LaLight. Let's find out the truth.

You’ll find out the truth alright

[LaLight]

But we won’t win

[Robz888]

Alright, Iguana's response means there can't be two scum left.

Robz, Hydrad, please vote LaLight. Let's find out the truth.

I think it's possible for there to be two scum left, but that we will have lost if there is.

If there's only one scum left, I'm not totally sure it's LaLight instead of hydrad.

[Robz888]

Like, I presume the scum wincon is to eliminate all the town, so even though EFHW doesn't count, her vote can still prevent them from having lynch majority.

The problem, which I have now realized, is that if hydrad and LL are both scum, and we lynch hydrad, then LL kills you tonight (since you can't commute), I die as well, and then that's it, game over.

Iguana would not call the came here in this scenario, because technically LL could shoot me instead of you, and then there would be another day where you and EFHW could outvote him. This would be stupid and wrong but it's not like totally confirmed objectivly that killing you is a double kill, so I believe iguana would not end the game here.

So we've lost in that scenario. Trouble is I am having trouble understanding how there were only two scum in this game.

[Galzria]

I mapped out the way the scum count made sense this game:

2 in 9 is standard
3 in 13 is standard
2 1/2 with you as a Traitor is pretty reasonable. Especially given your increased strength due to your PR.

From a 2 1/2 base, we can look at how alignment changes could alter the game:

Assume Hydrad changed from town to scum. The new game state is:
3 1/2 scum out of 12. This is slightly favored towards scum (4 of 12 actual players), but with good use of town PR's (Haddok & Swan were both strong, as was IDPTG's one shot when used correctly) town isn't completely outmatched.

Assume you change from scum to town. The new game state is 2 scum out of 12. This is favored towards town - but with Gkrieg being 1 shot death proof, it's not completely unbalanced. It definitely gives scum a 1-up mushroom here.

Assume you and Hydrad both switch alignment. The new gamestate is 3 scum out of 12. This is pretty close to balanced evenly for both factions.

So in all, the game started balanced, with the potential to swing both ways slightly, or remain pretty balanced if everything flipped.

[Robz888]

I guess there's the gkrieg thing.

[Hydrad]

Vote: Lalight

EFHW. I'm so sorry if we are wrong lol since you have been against us almost the whole time.

[Galzria]

Robz, hammer away.

Did you Modern Community me again?

[Robz888]

Robz, hammer away.

Did you Modern Community me again?

Nope!

[Robz888]

Deliberately not hammering here.

[Robz888]

You're really sure it's LL and not hydrad?

[Galzria]

You're really sure it's LL and not hydrad?

Obviously not! Haha. I was more sure about faust. But faust and Mcmc both thought so, and I do as well. And... Yeah.

[Robz888]

You're really sure it's LL and not hydrad?

Obviously not! Haha. I was more sure about faust. But faust and Mcmc both thought so, and I do as well. And... Yeah.

Okay, well, I trust what they thought more than I trust myself trying to figure it out now, I guess.

Vote: LL

[LaLight]

just... awesome

[Galzria]

just... awesome

Well?

[Robz888]

just... awesome

Ack you got me GG? Is that what you meant?

[iguanaiguana]

Day 6 Final vote count

Lalight (3): Galzria, Hydrad, Robz888
Hydrad (1): Lalight

not voting (1): EFHW

With 4 alive, it took 3 to lynch.

Lalight was Scaramouche, an evil-aligned machine and an item thief.

The following players survived to the end:

Hydrad, who was X-49, a good-aligned machine and a universal miller.
Galzria, who was Samurai Jack, a good-aligned human samurai and a neighborizer.
Robz888, who was Ashi, originally an evil-aligned human samurai and a traitorous gunsmith, who converted into a good-aligned human samurai and Samurai Jack's lover.


Town wins!

[Galzria]

Whooooooo!!!!

[Robz888]

Hooray!!!

[Swowl]

yayyyyyyyy
good job boys and girls!

Thanks for the game, Iguana!

[LaLight]

just... awesome

Well?

I mean yeah, I had up to no chances and I couldn't not to bus gkrieg. I am already proud of myself taking down faust though. You're good, guys.

[Robz888]

Wow, I'm shocked, lol, I really sorta suspected it was hydrad. I know nothing!

[LaLight]

so could Hydrad change alignment if I targeted him?

[LaLight]

Wow, I'm shocked, lol, I really sorta suspected it was hydrad. I know nothing!

That was my very best performance as scum

[Robz888]

Galz, good job resisting your pathological need to murder me.

[iguanaiguana]

I will write up a thing about each character and what I was thinking as far as balancing the game. In the mean time, here are the QTs:

Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/uJDK6Ci4Xfdz

Evil players: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8rZf9hGHqkb8

Mod (is a total mess): https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/nZSYDwa2TnZ

[Galzria]

Sorry faust. I had to make a case somewhere. I DID look at all options before going with you, and it sucked because I solidly gut read you town, despite everything. But I felt the case on you was better than the case I could make anywhere else... and it sucks to be wrong but I can't feel bad for trying.

[iguanaiguana]

so could Hydrad change alignment if I targeted him?

No, Hydrad was just town.  The one thing mafia could have done to win the game would have been jailkeeping McMcsalot on N3 to prevent him from using his IC-ify ability. More on that in a bigger post.

[EFHW]

Ok, thanks for getting that one right!

[Galzria]

Galz, good job resisting your pathological need to murder me.

Hardest thing I've ever done.

To be fair, you've set me up to forever not trust you lol.

[EFHW]

Just to be clear, I didn't start trying to get lynched until after I was at L-2.

[Galzria]

Ok, thanks for getting that one right!

Sorry EFHW. I just... knew how my QT with Robz played out better than anyone - and while I completely understood your read... it just didn't jive with my assessment of the situation - which was really tough because I, of all people, struggle with Robz based solely on our history. I wanted to join you very, very much.

[Robz888]

Had I known I was going to lose my Gunsmith and become a Lover, I probably would have taken the conversion to scum.

[EFHW]

Here's my qt, since I couldn't talk during the game.

https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/XpU78pbdXxL?m1=-1&mN=-1

[EFHW]

Ok, thanks for getting that one right!

Sorry EFHW. I just... knew how my QT with Robz played out better than anyone - and while I completely understood your read... it just didn't jive with my assessment of the situation - which was really tough because I, of all people, struggle with Robz based solely on our history. I wanted to join you very, very much.

How did you decide to neighborize him, given your history?

[Galzria]

Ok, thanks for getting that one right!

Sorry EFHW. I just... knew how my QT with Robz played out better than anyone - and while I completely understood your read... it just didn't jive with my assessment of the situation - which was really tough because I, of all people, struggle with Robz based solely on our history. I wanted to join you very, very much.

How did you decide to neighborize him, given your history?

Wanted to neighborize Swan instead. Knew Swan would be killed. Obviously didn't know anything about Robz role or ability at the time but figured I really wanted to know if he was town or scum more than anyone else at that point.

[Galzria]

Mine:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/73JSZsMUfTj

Me/Robz:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/bLUXKFUj2yU

Me/Mcmc:
https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/9TFQw2PAWiyk

[Galzria]

For the record Iguana (and anybody that had been curious): I checked the opening post for win cons last night when I was following the train of thought out regarding end game. I assumed that the lack of them being posted was intentional, which is why I didn't ask, but instead tried to work my way through all logical implications.

I actually didn't expect Iguana to clarify my question - although the clarification was ultimately inconsequential.

[Galzria]

Oh man... if you guys had stolen from me N2 instead of changing to Haddock... You would've taken my motorcycle and double killed me + Robz... changes the entire game.

[iguanaiguana]

General ideas that framed the game:

I wanted to do a game with a Saulus (mafia becomes town) because I did not believe that one had been done on the site before. Saulus meant RMM, but other than that I wanted it to be fairly tame so I decided not to go too crazy with it. I also wanted to do a smaller setup since it was my first RMM and that felt easier to pull off. So I naturally fell upon 2 mafia, one traitor who can become town. Ashi became town either when Samurai Jack targets them or when they target Samurai Jack, which only happened in 1/3rd of the random simulations I did before running the setup. As it turned out, both triggers for the alignment choice happened N1 on this game.

I never intended to have a Judas (town turns mafia) role in the game, but I also needed for the possibility of multiple alignment changes to be open in the minds of the players so that when one player claimed alignment change or the potential to do so, they weren't automatically believed. Originally, I wanted the alignment change mechanic completely hidden, but Ashersky advised against that, which I think lead to more interesting discussions during the game anyway.

Some thoughts on each player/character in the order they died:

EFHW/The Scotsman

EFHW was the weak version of a restless spirit. She could vote, providing a small utility, but scum would still win if they got to the standard number of living players that they could win at without EFHW being in the game. I actually completely forgot to write wincons, but if I had remembered that I would have made them public so that everyone would be able to reference them and see that was the case. EFHW was not supposed to be a strong role. There were no strong roles because scum, at most, had 2 & 1/2 members on their team. faust also had an item for her that could make her a town roleblocker, which gkrieg also would have been able to use if Lalight stole it and gave it to him.

DatSwan/Rothschild

DatSwan's flip was the other mistake I made in addition to not writing win cons before the game started. He was actually what I should have called a "type cop" rather than a "flavor cop." As in, if he copped Lalight, he would see Lalight's items and see that he was a machine, but wouldn't get to see that he was Scaramouche. Also, if gkrieg was disguised, he would see the disguise's flavors. It was possible for him to catch scum, but only if they took scummy night actions. He could see the item thief hoarding items, or possibly the disguise-master lying about his type in a massclaim. He also could see what type of items everyone could use and possibly help someone get an item they could use with a 1-shot item redirect.  In the end, it didn't matter because he died before he could do anything.

pingpongsam/the creature

PPS's role originally wasn't in the game, and faust's role was originally a straight bodyguard. But when this game had 11 players, scum was winning more than town in my simulations. So I split faust's role into two 1-shot roles, and gave IDPTG/Space an item that could make their roles nightly. Aku had a 1-shot jailkeep, and so he could have fakeclaimed this and hid among the protective people, and even tried to get IDPTG/Space to give him the 1-shot conversion item. 

People doubted PPS because of the potential for multiple deaths - BUT. No one could sword-vig at the start of the game, which made multiple kills that way unlikely. Robz was not a lover at the start of the game (more on that later). And PPS role itself was unlikely to cause multiple deaths because it was 1-shot. In the end, no multi-kills happened and one night had no kill, so I don't feel like I over-did it on the multi-death roles.

Haddock/an ImaKandi

ImaKandi are a perfect flavor fit for being a tracker. That his lack of 1-shot-ness didn't fit with the others was intentional and meant to look a bit scummy so that he couldn't be as easy to trust.

gkrieg13/Aku

Aku had a lot of powers that he didn't end up using via his disguises. He had two good-aligned disguises that he could have worn in order to falsely IC himself if IDPTG/Space gave him that ability. These were a nightly motivator and a 1-shot jailkeep, both of which he never used. Between them, he would have also been able to use any item in the game except Samurai Jack's sword while disguised.

He also had a 1-shot strongman and a 1-shot ninja that he gained on N2 and N3 via evil-aligned disguises. (If I ran the setup again, I would have just given him everything N1.) Finally he had the mirror, which let him watch someone in the past, but only spirits could use it. It would have been the holy grail for town for DatSwan to item cop Aku and then swap the item to IDPTG/Space, the only other one who could have used it. In case that happened, I made the item secretly 1-shot so that town couldn't find the whole scum team with it. Secret, because I didn't want Aku to know that he could just destroy the thing and be rid of it. All the same, he used it as quickly as he could.

Finally, Aku also became a doublevoter if he passed on using disguises, and he became 1-shot deathproof for balance purposes after Robz switched alignment. So if he had survived another day, he possibly could have shut the game down.

I would have liked to see Aku use his motivator disguise or his jailkeep, either to get some towncred, screw with town, or at least motivate Lalight so that Lalight could steal town's stuff. But none of that happened.

Scum's power was very centralized in Aku, which fit the flavor of the show but did make it very hard on them when people started scumreading gkrieg.

IDPTG/Space - Tam Sung

So this role was spawned because I liked the idea of schadd's "anarchic cop" in schadd9++ but figured it would be way too strong. With an anarchic cop, the first player to say "hidey ho mary belle" in thread gets their alignment mod-confirmed. I tried to make it weaker by adding steps to the process that mafia would potentially be able to disrupt. So first Tam Sung sends out the ability, and scum could potentially jailkeep that. Then the player has to activate the ability, giving scum two chances to randomly kill the player or jail them the night they activate.

In the game, scum had a chance to Jail McMc because he claimed before he used the ability, but they didn't believe that jailing him would stop him. So that was a huge win for town in how McMc framed his ability. That, and Rob'z choice to be good instead of evil, probably decided the game for town.

faust/woolie

faust remarked that he had an incredibly boring role, and, well, he did. It was a little more fun before I split it into two different roles to buff town.

McMcsalot/Da Samurai

McMcsalot was my take on a sidekick role. If Samurai Jack died, McMc was meant to take up SJ's sword (literally) and become a samurai himself. So he would have been able to vig people with the sword. He also had the option to give the sword to Galzria and let him use it, becoming a Jack-enabler. But Galzria defied all odds by claiming the main character D1 then surviving through the whole game, and neither of those things ended up happening.

Lalight/Scaramouche

The item thief who kept targeting townies who didn't have items. All of town's items could have either buffed gkrieg, buffed Lalight (Hydrad's mechanical armor), or buffed Robz if Robz chose evil (more on that in a minute).

If I reran the setup, I would done somethign like give Lalight a watcher fakeclaim and make him an actual watcher in addition to an item thief. That would have made his fakeclaim potential a lot stronger. Sorry Lalight!

Hydrad / X-49

I dreamed up Hydrad's role based on ashersky's fakeclaim in Breaking Bad mafia, where he (as scum) claimed he was a miller that no matter what way you investigated him, it would return as scum. In my head, Hydrad's role was negative utility for town because he made the tracker and the IC-giver more faulty. But Hydrad claimed it and was instantly townread and that was that.

I never considered creating a way for Hydrad's character to become mafia, but damn, you guy's made me wish I had by talking about it to no end! The simplest thing would have been for Hydrad to automatically become mafia in the event of Ashi becoming town (in lieu of Aku gaining a deathproof). Anything else would have been inherently too swingy and hard to control.

Galzria / SJ

Samurai Jack's role was also based on a fake claim, actually my own fake claim in Breaking Bad mafia. In that game, I fakeclaimed that I could create a neighborhood and then commute both myself and the people in the neighborhood. In the show, Jack has a badass motorcycle, and I really liked the flavor idea of Jack being able to ride off with whomever he neighborized and protect them both from a kill.

His motorcycle was one shot, and he used it on the one night that scum targeted him for the kill. That opened the door for him to lie as town and claim he could commute endlessly, and scum believed him enough that they never got the Robz/Galz double kill.

Ashi / Robz

Hey, this is the role I built this setup around! I'll say a few things.

First of all, ASHI WAS A SAMURAI! But Robz never claimed this, lololol. If Robz had chosen evil, Lalight would have been able to give Robz Samurai Jack's sword and mafia could have started getting double kills that way.

Ashi starts the game as a traitor and a killsmith, with two attempts to guess a mafia teammate and get recruited with a correct guess. The killsmith was designed to help Ashi find scum and get recruited, but what I didn't want to happen was for Robz to collect a bunch of results as scum, then convert to town and share them. That was why I tried to make it fairly quick and easy for Ashi to find their partners and become mafia (which would have eliminated the alignment swap possibility from the game).

Scum converting to town is a big swing for town, so I balanced it by giving Aku a deathproof (if it happened after Aku's lynch, Scaramouche would have gotten to double-kill the next night), and making Ashi change from a powerful role (killsmith) to a negative-utility role (lover).

The goal was to make it such that Ashi's decision between good and evil would benefit the faction that Ashi chose is they were townread, and benefit the opposing faction if they were scumread. I believe that worked out. If Robz chose good, then got lynched or killed, all it would have accomplished would have been buffing Aku. But he survived, so in the end that helped town.

Robz was not pleased about how he lost his killsmith. But it did say explicitly in the setup "alignment changes may have consequences unknown to the players who cause them" and so Robz was thoroughly warned, if only he had looked in the right place.

Final Thoughts

I do think that running this setup with 12 players vs. 11 was the right call. With one less townperson, scum really had the edge. But I also wish that I had given gkrieg/Lalight a little more from the beginning of the game. So I would say the setup was slightly townsided, but also town did play well and things went well for them. So I wouldn't say that town didn't deserve to win.

[mcmcsalot]

Yay!!!!! So glad we made the right choices.

Shoutout to Glaz/idptg/hydrad for being so so so towny, I hit a point I was never going to participate in a lynch for any of you.

Robz awesome job for being just towny enough not to get lynched but I think you disinsentivized scum from trying to kill galz because they thought we would lynch you. Between this and the survivor game my new outlook on you is “robz, I know he’s scummy but he’s probably helping we will lynch him when we need to”.

[iguanaiguana]

For the record Iguana (and anybody that had been curious): I checked the opening post for win cons last night when I was following the train of thought out regarding end game. I assumed that the lack of them being posted was intentional, which is why I didn't ask, but instead tried to work my way through all logical implications.

I actually didn't expect Iguana to clarify my question - although the clarification was ultimately inconsequential.

In the end, the only thing that would have worked would have been a hidden win-con for scum, which is what I ended up doing. I didn't want the strong version of the restless spirit, but publicizing scum's win-con would have given town reason to believe that any restless spirit was telling the truth and town.

[iguanaiguana]

Oh man... if you guys had stolen from me N2 instead of changing to Haddock... You would've taken my motorcycle and double killed me + Robz... changes the entire game.

So Lalight's steal ability would have actually trumped your motorcycle and prevented you from using it. But in that case faust still would have had your back with a bodyguard.

[Galzria]

Oh man... if you guys had stolen from me N2 instead of changing to Haddock... You would've taken my motorcycle and double killed me + Robz... changes the entire game.

So Lalight's steal ability would have actually trumped your motorcycle and prevented you from using it. But in that case faust still would have had your back with a bodyguard.

Ah, you're right. I had gotten the first part, but I forgot faust also Bodyguarded me.

[EFHW]

Thanks for the game, iguana!

[Hydrad]

hurrah. we won. I'm glad because I was starting to get kinda worried.

[gkrieg13]

Yay!!!!! So glad we made the right choices.

Shoutout to Glaz/idptg/hydrad for being so so so towny, I hit a point I was never going to participate in a lynch for any of you.

Robz awesome job for being just towny enough not to get lynched but I think you disinsentivized scum from trying to kill galz because they thought we would lynch you. Between this and the survivor game my new outlook on you is “robz, I know he’s scummy but he’s probably helping we will lynch him when we need to”.

We did try to kill galz. Mainly I thought galz had unlimited commuting with his neighbor, so there was no point in trying to kill him.

[gkrieg13]

For the record I’m still salty about this, but I don’t think that Robz becoming town was balanced out by me becoming 1-shot deathproof. Especially when his lover was also a rather unkillable person.

[iguanaiguana]

Galz had an item form 1 shot commute that your faction could steal. A couple 1 shot protectors could have potentually kept him alive one more day. I wouldn't call that unkillable.

[gkrieg13]

Galz had an item form 1 shot commute that your faction could steal. A couple 1 shot protectors could have potentually kept him alive one more day. I wouldn't call that unkillable.

Yes I agree with you. I didn’t know the commuter was one-shot. I’m more just in a bad mood right now about other things.

[faust]

Sorry faust. I had to make a case somewhere. I DID look at all options before going with you, and it sucked because I solidly gut read you town, despite everything. But I felt the case on you was better than the case I could make anywhere else... and it sucks to be wrong but I can't feel bad for trying.

It's okay, maybe you needed to lynch me in order to come around on LaLight. I just wish I would have been able to Bodyguard someone in order to take me out of the lynch pool.

[faust]

PPS's role originally wasn't in the game, and faust's role was originally a straight bodyguard. But when this game had 11 players, scum was winning more than town in my simulations. So I split faust's role into two 1-shot roles, and gave IDPTG/Space an item that could make their roles nightly. Aku had a 1-shot jailkeep, and so he could have fakeclaimed this and hid among the protective people, and even tried to get IDPTG/Space to give him the 1-shot conversion item. 

Just going by this, if you made the game so that random simulations made scum and town win 50% each, then this game was heavily town-favored. (which I think it was) Town is doing better than random. I think town winrate would need to be about 33% for a balanced game, though it depends on how much they can improve through coordination.

[iguanaiguana]

PPS's role originally wasn't in the game, and faust's role was originally a straight bodyguard. But when this game had 11 players, scum was winning more than town in my simulations. So I split faust's role into two 1-shot roles, and gave IDPTG/Space an item that could make their roles nightly. Aku had a 1-shot jailkeep, and so he could have fakeclaimed this and hid among the protective people, and even tried to get IDPTG/Space to give him the 1-shot conversion item. 

Just going by this, if you made the game so that random simulations made scum and town win 50% each, then this game was heavily town-favored. (which I think it was) Town is doing better than random. I think town winrate would need to be about 33% for a balanced game, though it depends on how much they can improve through coordination.

I used a laborious simulation process where I started with a random lynch then manually went through each role and gave them an action that made logical sense given the info they had. So my simulations took an hour to do and had town playing reasonably well with night actions. But okay, sure.

All the same, any of these three things happening differently likely would have caused a mafia win.

1. Robz picking evil, especially if he still wasnt lynched.
2. N2 if scum had stuck with their first action submission of jailing faust, stealing from and killing Galz then both Robz and Galz would have died instead of no one.
3. N3 if scum had roleblocked McMc.

Given that those three events all went against scum and for town and scum still got to MyLo with three mislynches and would have won with four, its hard for me to see how it is heavily townsided. What I see is that town played a little better than scum and won by a little bit too.

[iguanaiguana]

I dont mean to sound arrogant or defensive, I just really don't see it. And I would like to understand so I can make good setups.

[iguanaiguana]

Galzria is MVP for guessing correctly what night he would be shot and helping the correct lynches go through.

[faust]

PPS's role originally wasn't in the game, and faust's role was originally a straight bodyguard. But when this game had 11 players, scum was winning more than town in my simulations. So I split faust's role into two 1-shot roles, and gave IDPTG/Space an item that could make their roles nightly. Aku had a 1-shot jailkeep, and so he could have fakeclaimed this and hid among the protective people, and even tried to get IDPTG/Space to give him the 1-shot conversion item. 

Just going by this, if you made the game so that random simulations made scum and town win 50% each, then this game was heavily town-favored. (which I think it was) Town is doing better than random. I think town winrate would need to be about 33% for a balanced game, though it depends on how much they can improve through coordination.

I used a laborious simulation process where I started with a random lynch then manually went through each role and gave them an action that made logical sense given the info they had. So my simulations took an hour to do and had town playing reasonably well with night actions. But okay, sure.

All the same, any of these three things happening differently likely would have caused a mafia win.

1. Robz picking evil, especially if he still wasnt lynched.
2. N2 if scum had stuck with their first action submission of jailing faust, stealing from and killing Galz then both Robz and Galz would have died instead of no one.
3. N3 if scum had roleblocked McMc.

Given that those three events all went against scum and for town and scum still got to MyLo with three mislynches and would have won with four, its hard for me to see how it is heavily townsided. What I see is that town played a little better than scum and won by a little bit too.

I guess I think that town did not deserve to win this. I don't think town played as a whole better than scum.

[Robz888]

I think the game was town favored, but I don't think I agree that scum played better than town.

[iguanaiguana]

Well next time I do an RMM I will buff scum more. But next time I mod will be something different anyway with an M on it.

[mcmcsalot]

I think actually what happened was the unknown wincon combined with robz choice to be town gave this otherwise even game to town.

Had robz been scum we would have lost the game after lynching Faust because scum simply had to reach 50% of town. Had I known that was scums wincon I absolutely would have pushed us to lynch robz instead of Faust and then we would have opened be final day with glaz/hydrad/Faust vs lalight and it would have been a much closer game with town potentially lynching Faust for the loss.

So not knowing he wincon town player riskier than we would have otherwise and once galz figures it out on the final day it was in the bag that lalight was scum.

So I don’t think the game was too town sided at all. It’s an rmm game and from a role respective town played really really well and scum didn’t play great.

[LaLight]

I should’ve killed Galz/Robz and go to the last day with all 3 townies counting EFHW needing to vote for me, that would’ve given me more chances. But I had no idea Galz really scumread me

[pingpongsam]

Thanks for the game, iguana. I had posted more analysis yesterday but it apparently got lost to the ether.