Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Question- which one tilts you?  (Read 1092 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Screwyioux

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
  • Shuffle iT Username: Screwyioux
  • Respect: +197
    • View Profile
Question- which one tilts you?
« on: May 28, 2018, 04:44:57 pm »
0

Show of hands here-- which one is more frustrating,
You getting a bad draw or your opponent getting a good one?

Just curious how people feel about this (and we're not talking about how they're the same thing).
Logged

DeepCyan

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27
  • Respect: +60
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 05:33:11 pm »
+6

Show of hands here-- which one is more frustrating,
You getting a bad draw or your opponent getting a good one?

Just curious how people feel about this (and we're not talking about how they're the same thing).

Definitely the former. Getting to see your opponent's engine run at its most optimal is actually kinda fun. If nothing else, you get to see their ideal implementation of whatever strategy they're running and try and beat it with your own. Having a hilariously bad set of draws wreck your game before you even get to try running whatever strategy you're going with, on the other hand, is just deeply unsatisfying to me.

(That being said, if an engine is getting consecutive bad draws, it's probably that the engine itself is built wrong)
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Tactician
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +703
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 06:18:07 pm »
+2

Well, it's often difficult to see just how good an opponent's draw was. If they buy a cheap card or nothing, they probably dudded, but there might be other reasons for that.

Also, if they're building any kind of competent engine, them getting "good" draws is the norm to be expected. On the other hand, if you have an engine it's absolutely frustrating if it duds due to bad luck.
Logged

DG

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4022
  • Respect: +2558
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 06:42:21 pm »
+1

Quite often, a good draw is just an average looking draw where you get an even distribution of notable cards. After opening chapel/silver you generally want chapel + XXXX in one hand and silver +XXXX in the other. That's as likely as any other notable outcome. Players also plan their purchases and card play for likely draws so when those draws come up they should fit the plan. In other words, if you are willing to let the most common draws frustrate you then you're going to be frustrated far too often.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 06:43:36 pm by DG »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10769
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +11331
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 09:13:09 pm »
0

I don't think there's a difference for me. I just think the game gets stupid when one of the players is so much behind that they can't really hope to come back even with superior play (even if it's the opponent).
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1111
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1629
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 05:51:33 pm »
+3

Can we answer neither? Luck is a thing in Dominion. Get over it. As long as you can say you made the best possible decisions at the time, with knowing what you knew at the time, your conscience is clean.
Logged

Screwyioux

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
  • Shuffle iT Username: Screwyioux
  • Respect: +197
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2018, 01:45:21 pm »
+1

I mean, you could, but this is kind of a venting thread.
If you don't get irritated by the luck aspects of this game, you're probably a healthier human being than I am and I envy you.
Logged

phonological loop

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +27
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2018, 07:48:45 pm »
+2

I'm a much, much worse player than you. However, let me suggest that if you regularly get very emotional about bad draws (or your opponent's good draws), you would be a better player if were able to eliminate that impulse (perhaps using some techniques from cognitive behavioral therapy). At least, I don't think it helps you, and it takes away mental energy from more important things.

More or less you're playing a coin flip simulator, with some ability to bias the coin with good play. Getting mad at bad draws seems about as sensible and useful as getting mad at a coin for coming up heads.
Logged

Jimmmmm

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1711
  • Shuffle iT Username: Jimmmmm
  • Respect: +1906
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 04:48:44 am »
+3

I mean, you could, but this is kind of a venting thread.
If you don't get irritated by the luck aspects of this game, you're probably a healthier human being than I am and I envy you.

You Make Your Own Personality Luck.
Logged

Screwyioux

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
  • Shuffle iT Username: Screwyioux
  • Respect: +197
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2018, 11:47:20 am »
+1

I'm a much, much worse player than you. However, let me suggest that if you regularly get very emotional about bad draws (or your opponent's good draws), you would be a better player if were able to eliminate that impulse (perhaps using some techniques from cognitive behavioral therapy). At least, I don't think it helps you, and it takes away mental energy from more important things.

More or less you're playing a coin flip simulator, with some ability to bias the coin with good play. Getting mad at bad draws seems about as sensible and useful as getting mad at a coin for coming up heads.

Oh, I'm with you on that 1000000%. It's not worth focusing on at all, and it's detrimental to play. I wish I could keep that perspective up all the time. Actually I just read JSH's article "Your Greatest Opponent" and I think I need to play less. Great article, btw, you should check it out if you haven't read it.
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2553
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3176
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2018, 12:54:23 pm »
+3

More frustrating than either of these is people who don’t hit “start game” until after they have fully evaluated the board.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

they/them

ackmondual

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 396
  • Respect: +250
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2018, 11:42:42 pm »
0

Show of hands here-- which one is more frustrating,
You getting a bad draw or your opponent getting a good one?

Just curious how people feel about this (and we're not talking about how they're the same thing).

Definitely the former. Getting to see your opponent's engine run at its most optimal is actually kinda fun. If nothing else, you get to see their ideal implementation of whatever strategy they're running and try and beat it with your own. Having a hilariously bad set of draws wreck your game before you even get to try running whatever strategy you're going with, on the other hand, is just deeply unsatisfying to me.

(That being said, if an engine is getting consecutive bad draws, it's probably that the engine itself is built wrong)
Sitting through longer turns, only to build up to a... an Estate, has been both amusing and disappointing at the same time.
Logged
Village, +2 Actions.  Village, +3 Actions.  Village, +4 Actions.  Village, +5 Actions.  Village, +6 Actions.  Village, +7 Actions.  Workers Village, +2 Buys, +8 Actions.  End Action Phase.  No Treasures to play.  No buy.  No Night cards to play

theblankman

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454
  • Respect: +376
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 06:58:39 pm »
0

Show of hands here-- which one is more frustrating,
You getting a bad draw or your opponent getting a good one?

Just curious how people feel about this (and we're not talking about how they're the same thing).

Depends on the board. Like if it's a simple money game, whatever draws are gonna happen, maybe someone hits $5 or $6 or $8 or whatever number they need more often than someone else. What's frustrating about that game imo isn't shuffle luck, it's that I somehow wound up playing that kindgom. Draws are more frustrating for me in games where the decks ought to be more reliable, stalled engines are the worst (probably has something to do with how often a dead turn loses the game).
Logged
it's a shame that full-random is the de facto standard

guidobass

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34
  • Shuffle iT Username: guidobass
  • Respect: +29
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 04:08:32 pm »
0

Multiple bad draws:

Getting a 5/2 split when there are no $5 and $2 cards. Opponent gets a 3/4.

Getting a 5 Copper draw on a 5/2 split with no $2 card, buying a $5 trasher, then getting $2 on your next 3 turns.

These both happened to me in the last week IRL.
Logged

markusin

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3683
  • Shuffle iT Username: markusin
  • I also switched from Starcraft
  • Respect: +2232
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 07:53:05 pm »
+3

You know what, in Dominion and in many other competitive games (e.g. Hearthstone), I get more tilted by an opponent's good luck than my own bad luck.

If you think about your victory depending on your raw progress towards a victory condition minus your opponent's opposition of your progress, then an opponent having good luck appears as a more obvious, bigger "Minus" sign than your own bad luck giving you a smaller "Plus" sign. So for example, an opponent hitting me with Possession to steal a good hand of mine stings more than me stealing my opponent's poor hand with Possession.

I dunno, I can shrug off my own bad luck as "eh, it happens, but maybe next game I can get more done." However nothing makes me more likely to utter "are you serious!?" or some profanity under my breath than a opponent having multiple good turns in a row (edit: but like, if that string of good turns was a very unlikely event and not just the roughly expected outcome because of deck composition).
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 07:59:13 pm by markusin »
Logged

Screwyioux

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
  • Shuffle iT Username: Screwyioux
  • Respect: +197
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2018, 08:56:59 am »
+1

Same. At least with my own bad luck, I know it's at least partially my fault.
If my opponent wakes up on turn 3 with 5 coppers to buy a mint, what the hell could I have honestly done about that?
Logged

faust

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2152
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +3024
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2018, 09:07:06 am »
+1

Same. At least with my own bad luck, I know it's at least partially my fault.
If my opponent wakes up on turn 3 with 5 coppers to buy a mint, what the hell could I have honestly done about that?
Of course that isn't really the case. Like, if my opening buys are at the bottom of my deck, then that is not even partially my fault.

I guess for me own bad luck is worse because I'm more aware of it. With deck-tracking, I can usually see it unfold over several turns, whereas when my opponent had good luck it is not always easy to distinguish that from them simply having the better strategy.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Screwyioux

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 179
  • Shuffle iT Username: Screwyioux
  • Respect: +197
    • View Profile
Re: Question- which one tilts you?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2018, 09:14:48 am »
0

Same. At least with my own bad luck, I know it's at least partially my fault.
If my opponent wakes up on turn 3 with 5 coppers to buy a mint, what the hell could I have honestly done about that?
Of course that isn't really the case. Like, if my opening buys are at the bottom of my deck, then that is not even partially my fault.

I guess for me own bad luck is worse because I'm more aware of it. With deck-tracking, I can usually see it unfold over several turns, whereas when my opponent had good luck it is not always easy to distinguish that from them simply having the better strategy.

Sure, it's not always the case, especially the earlier in the game you're talking about.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.127 seconds with 21 queries.