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Author Topic: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards  (Read 5502 times)

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Asper

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2018, 03:02:50 am »
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Even with the Landmark effect (which is an improvement) I think it would need to hit all other players. The problem I see there is that then you have the choice to harm every other player OR get the advantage. Here's an attempt at a version that tries to cover that:

Treaty, 0 coin, Event
Once per game: +1 Buy, gain a card costing up to 5. You may reveal a Province from your hand to put each other player's Treaty token on an Action supply pile of your choice. Cards from that pile are worth - 1VP at the end of the game.

It still has issues, for instance somebody may put your token on Village early and then later when you changed your strategy, somebody else moves it to e.g. Minion. You could solve that by having 30 tokens, one in each player's color for the others to place, but obviously that means excessive components for one Event.

Holunder9

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2018, 05:02:53 am »
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About the new cards, Yurt Village isn't exciting but looks sound. Like Conclave an auto-open if there is nothing better around but you cannot put them mindlessly into your deck.
Wow, Marshal is a great way to fix Commander. I don't get the Commander type though.

Even with the Landmark effect (which is an improvement) I think it would need to hit all other players. The problem I see there is that then you have the choice to harm every other player OR get the advantage. Here's an attempt at a version that tries to cover that:

Treaty, 0 coin, Event
Once per game: +1 Buy, gain a card costing up to 5. You may reveal a Province from your hand to put each other player's Treaty token on an Action supply pile of your choice. Cards from that pile are worth - 1VP at the end of the game.

It still has issues, for instance somebody may put your token on Village early and then later when you changed your strategy, somebody else moves it to e.g. Minion. You could solve that by having 30 tokens, one in each player's color for the others to place, but obviously that means excessive components for one Event.

I think that scaling would be improved if every player had a Treaty token of each other player, i.e. in a 3P game your token could land on 2 piles or twice on the same pile. In this version you should be able to put the tokens on different piles in multiplayer, i.e. Alice can put Bob's token on Working Village and Charlie's token on Hamlet.

+1 Buy
Once per game, choose one: Gain a card costing up to 5 ; or reveal a Province
from your hand to put your Treaty tokens on Action Supply piles of your choice.
Cards from that pile are worth -1VP per Treaty token of your colour on them.


Assuming for the sake of simplicity that a village pile splits evenly this would be -5VP in a 2 game and -6,66VP in a 3P game and -7,5 in a 4P game so -2VP is an option that should seriously be considered. 10-15VP seem like much but it is just a difference of one Province more vs one Province less.
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Asper

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2018, 08:59:55 am »
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About the new cards, Yurt Village isn't exciting but looks sound. Like Conclave an auto-open if there is nothing better around but you cannot put them mindlessly into your deck.
Wow, Marshal is a great way to fix Commander. I don't get the Commander type though.

Even with the Landmark effect (which is an improvement) I think it would need to hit all other players. The problem I see there is that then you have the choice to harm every other player OR get the advantage. Here's an attempt at a version that tries to cover that:

Treaty, 0 coin, Event
Once per game: +1 Buy, gain a card costing up to 5. You may reveal a Province from your hand to put each other player's Treaty token on an Action supply pile of your choice. Cards from that pile are worth - 1VP at the end of the game.

It still has issues, for instance somebody may put your token on Village early and then later when you changed your strategy, somebody else moves it to e.g. Minion. You could solve that by having 30 tokens, one in each player's color for the others to place, but obviously that means excessive components for one Event.

I think that scaling would be improved if every player had a Treaty token of each other player, i.e. in a 3P game your token could land on 2 piles or twice on the same pile. In this version you should be able to put the tokens on different piles in multiplayer, i.e. Alice can put Bob's token on Working Village and Charlie's token on Hamlet.

+1 Buy
Once per game, choose one: Gain a card costing up to 5 ; or reveal a Province
from your hand to put your Treaty tokens on Action Supply piles of your choice.
Cards from that pile are worth -1VP per Treaty token of your colour on them.


Assuming for the sake of simplicity that a village pile splits evenly this would be -5VP in a 2 game and -6,66VP in a 3P game and -7,5 in a 4P game so -2VP is an option that should seriously be considered. 10-15VP seem like much but it is just a difference of one Province more vs one Province less.

Yes, the option to give each player a token for each opponent was exactly what I meant when talking about 30 tokens: 6*5=30.
It's better than each other player having exactly one token, but oh the components...

It also was supposed to mean that you can put tokens on different piles.

I don't really think tokens need to be in player color per "attacker", though. Using my wording otherwise, just write "Add one of each other player's Treaty tokens" instead of "put each other player's Treaty token"...

Here's another idea: Instead of making another player lose points, you could GET points for each copy of a specified card another player has. In a 2P game that's pretty much the same anyway, and you could make it targeted again because it hurts noone. Problem's just, I think you'll need ten tokens again, unless you use a physical card to track of which card you want to count the copies a specific opponent has.

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2018, 09:47:46 am »
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I guess my main gripe with Yurt Village is that it's too obviously a better opener than Silver. There are other $3 cards that you usually get over Silver (Swindler and Fishing Village come to mind) but they have their potential drawbacks (Swindler is terminal; Fishing Village's $ is delayed.) Obviously Yurt Village might only be a Silver once or twice, but are there many games where you buy more than 2 Silvers anyway? To me, it just seems too clearly better than Silver.

What's the "Commander" type on Marshal supposed to mean?
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2018, 04:44:36 pm »
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Treaty - I appreciate everyone's suggestions and in depth analysis. It offers great perspective. Changes are coming, and any one of the suggested modifications seems exciting, but I'd first like to explore modifying the block mechanic. Here are my current thoughts: Blocked piles only effect the first two cards (or some other amount) played per turn; tokens can only be moved once per game; possibly adding a condition where only players with a token can be blocked. Any thoughts on these changes are appreciated.

Yurt Village - Hadn't considered Conclave. The play style is about the same,  but Conclave is much more interesting. Yurt Village will likely be removed.

Commander (type) - Mainly meant to remind players that cards with these types do effect other cards while the top card of your discard. I'm planning about 4 other Commander cards that effect/change how the following themes work: trashing, payload, attacks and Commander type cards. Still need to work out some kinks though. Any thoughts on Commanders? I've always thought the top card of the discard pile had a lot of design potential. Has this been tried before?
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Asper

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2018, 07:52:17 am »
+1

Cards that care about another card being the top card of your discard pile have actively been discouraged by Donald X, arguing that you'd be taking care to reorder your discards every time, usually pointlessly. But again, that was about cards that care about other cards being on top.

A card that does something when it is the top card of your discard pile has similarity to a Duration, even though it's not entirely the same. It leads to the rules question of whether you can reorder your discard pile when you look through it. I'd argue no.
For a card like Marshal, it seems fair enough, and doing several cards that use a broader new mechanic is always better, as you only have to learn that mechanic once. In this case, it's a bummer though that there can always only be one card on top of your supply pile. I feel a card like Marshal could be implemented in a more satisfying, less exclusive way, e.g. as a Duration and/or Reaction or Night card.

Gazbag

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #56 on: May 31, 2018, 01:43:18 pm »
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The Commanders and discard searching cards also introduce an accountability problem. I doubt it'd be a worry in the kinds of groups that play with fan cards, but they do introduce an opportunity to cheat quite easily. You don't have to reveal the discard when playing e.g. Harbinger, so you could slip the Commander to 2nd from the top and then topdeck the top card of the discard. I guess you'd just have change the rules to allow them to reorder the discard to avoid this?

 
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Holunder9

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2018, 03:37:21 pm »
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I feel a card like Marshal could be implemented in a more satisfying, less exclusive way, e.g. as a Duration and/or Reaction or Night card.
I disagree. Commander was broken and this is a great way to fix it. Now of course something like "While this is in play, after you resolve an Action, +1 Card. Ignore all other Commanders in play but the first." would also do the trick but I don't like the awkward wording. As it stands it is in my eyes a more elegantly worded way to implement a card that shouldn't have any effect beyond its first copy in play.
Furthermore, the 'top of the discard' pile mechanic emulates a Duration card without the disadvantage of Durations card being out for 2 turns and missing shuffles. So it is like a Duration as it features a delayed effect but it is also unlike a Duration as it can be played more frequently.
I do especially like the fact that Marshal loses its effect when you shuffle. So perhaps you are lucky, draw into Marshal and can play it in the same turn but perhaps the reduced draw power doesn't do the trick. This implies some potential subtleties about how to draw and when to trigger the shuffle.
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Asper

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #58 on: June 01, 2018, 03:29:34 am »
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I feel a card like Marshal could be implemented in a more satisfying, less exclusive way, e.g. as a Duration and/or Reaction or Night card.
I disagree. Commander was broken and this is a great way to fix it. Now of course something like "While this is in play, after you resolve an Action, +1 Card. Ignore all other Commanders in play but the first." would also do the trick but I don't like the awkward wording. As it stands it is in my eyes a more elegantly worded way to implement a card that shouldn't have any effect beyond its first copy in play.
Furthermore, the 'top of the discard' pile mechanic emulates a Duration card without the disadvantage of Durations card being out for 2 turns and missing shuffles. So it is like a Duration as it features a delayed effect but it is also unlike a Duration as it can be played more frequently.
I do especially like the fact that Marshal loses its effect when you shuffle. So perhaps you are lucky, draw into Marshal and can play it in the same turn but perhaps the reduced draw power doesn't do the trick. This implies some potential subtleties about how to draw and when to trigger the shuffle.

You could just use the Crossroads wording: If this is the first time you play a Commander this turn, during your next turn, when you play an Action card: +1 Card
Personally I think that cards where only the first copy does something are kind of downers, especially if you turn it into an entire class of cards. If two Commander type piles are in the kingdom, you got twenty cards of which you can only use one at a time. Crossroads at least does something when it's not the first and Fortune as well as Champion only have 5 copies (edit: Also they become available late-game only). 10,20 or 30 cards of which you can only use one really doesn't seem like something to intentionally go for I feel.
Edit 2: The only card with 10 copies I can think of that doesn't stack at all is Tactician, but even if stacks with other Durations. Secret Chamber, which also only rarely stacks, was removed.

Holunder9

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #59 on: June 01, 2018, 09:23:11 am »
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About Osho, I like the second Commander but it could easily provide several coins during the second turn, thus becoming as good / better than Merchant Ship which would justify a price of $5. Note that unlike Merchant Ship this is a good payload card for an engine due to the extra Buy so it is not unlikely that you will play several Action cards in the second turn.

You could just use the Crossroads wording: If this is the first time you play a Commander this turn, during your next turn, when you play an Action card: +1 Card
This would make tracking a mess. With the 'top card of your discard pile' mechanic on the other hand you can constantly read the effect, as it should be.

Quote
Personally I think that cards where only the first copy does something are kind of downers, especially if you turn it into an entire class of cards.
Nothing wrong with that but as the concrete cards Kudasai did would be too strong otherwise it is simply mechanically necessary. Osho and Marshal are more or less temporary Training and Pathfinding and if both effects could apply, if every card could become an additional Peddler and Laboratory or if there could be 3 Marshals in play, converting a lousy Pearl Diver into a triple Laboratory, this would be totally bonkers.
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Asper

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2018, 11:22:36 am »
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About Osho, I like the second Commander but it could easily provide several coins during the second turn, thus becoming as good / better than Merchant Ship which would justify a price of $5. Note that unlike Merchant Ship this is a good payload card for an engine due to the extra Buy so it is not unlikely that you will play several Action cards in the second turn.

You could just use the Crossroads wording: If this is the first time you play a Commander this turn, during your next turn, when you play an Action card: +1 Card
This would make tracking a mess. With the 'top card of your discard pile' mechanic on the other hand you can constantly read the effect, as it should be.

Quote
Personally I think that cards where only the first copy does something are kind of downers, especially if you turn it into an entire class of cards.
Nothing wrong with that but as the concrete cards Kudasai did would be too strong otherwise it is simply mechanically necessary. Osho and Marshal are more or less temporary Training and Pathfinding and if both effects could apply, if every card could become an additional Peddler and Laboratory or if there could be 3 Marshals in play, converting a lousy Pearl Diver into a triple Laboratory, this would be totally bonkers.

The tracking claim is simply not true. If you really limited it to only one Commander type card, all you had to do would be to remember which type of Commander was the first you played this turn, discarding all but one copy of that card at the end of the turn (as you always do with Durations that don't do anything in a future turn). If you go by card instead of type, you don't even need to remember that - just leave out one copy of every Commander type card. Ta-dah. Sure, the card you leave out might not be the exact physical card you played first, but to have this make a difference you'll have to run into obscure edge case rule territory like e.g. Enchantress, which by the way breaks every other Duration, too. It's trivial, really.

I agree that a broken card's brokenness becomes less noticeable if you can't use it as much. And don't get me wrong, I do like the originality and cleanliness of a card type that does something from your discard pile - it just irks me that they are so brutally exclusive, especially if one wants to do a whole bunch of cards using that type.

Holunder9

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2018, 12:09:03 pm »
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The tracking claim is simply not true. If you really limited it to only one Commander type card, all you had to do would be to remember which type of Commander was the first you played this turn, discarding all but one copy of that card at the end of the turn (as you always do with Durations that don't do anything in a future turn). If you go by card instead of type, you don't even need to remember that - just leave out one copy of every Commander type card. Ta-dah.
True, I missed that you talk about Durations.
I actually played Ghost wrong several times during my first plays of Nocturne until I actually re-read the rulebook and noticed that tiny detail. Sure, it is in the Duration rules but you are so used to Durations at least staying out for one turn that it is easy to forget that.

Sorry but this is why compared to Kudasai's neat and clean new mechanic what you suggested it is just too messy and prone to not remembering rules and misinterpreting how the whole thing is meant to work.

Quote
I agree that a broken card's brokenness becomes less noticeable if you can't use it as much. And don't get me wrong, I do like the originality and cleanliness of a card type that does something from your discard pile - it just irks me that they are so brutally exclusive, especially if one wants to do a whole bunch of cards using that type.
That's not really a big issue. First of all, it depends on how you randomize your Kingdom. In total random chances for more than one Commander appearing are pretty low, even if Kudasai does 4 or 5 Commanders.
Second, while Marshal is a card that hurts you if you cannot use the second turn effect Osho is still a Woodcutter on play. Often enough it will be just bought because you need that extra Buy and the second turn thing is an accidental cherry on the top.
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2018, 03:04:06 pm »
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As always, thank you everyone for the comments. To be concise I'll try and address everyone's posts here in one section.

Commander Type - I should first apologize for not having released all of the Commanders at once. I think it's hard to see the whole picture of what they are capable of and how they can interact without seeing the whole set. Unfortunately I only have the two cards I'm comfortable enough sharing, but I can try and talk about some of the design elements I have in mind. Hopefully this will help justify why I decided to go with a new card type and why I opted for only having one Commander out at a time. :)

Durations would certainly work, but I do agree with Holunder9 that the execution would get a bit tricky. Also, Commanders have interactions with mid-turn gainers and discarding cards that essentially allows for Commander swapping. Some Commanders you will want out for certain parts of your turn, but not others. For example, Osho is good with non-terminal Actions, but not terminal Actions. If you could have it out for the former and then discard another Commander from your hand (Commander swap) to end your turn you can get all the +1 Coin benefits without the -1 penalty. Hopefully this also highlights how multiple Commanders can be played despite only being able to have one benefit at a time. I couldn't see a good way to have all these interactions using Durations and first time played clauses.

I whole hardly agree with Asper that games with multiple Commanders can't just end up being dead cards, so I'm doing my best to add small interactions that make the play feel fun and satisfying. As I mentioned some Commanders will shine at certain parts of your turn and not others. I'm hoping to have a card that adds benefits from both your discard pile and the trash, but the latter will benefit all players (this of course will be some sort of Zombie Commander #chills). I may even have a card that specifically calls on the Commander type itself in some way.

I would agree that I think revealing your discard pile does not allow for it to be reshuffled. In any case I don't think this allows for players to be dishonest as Gazbag mentioned. Everyone's top card of their discard pile can be seen by all players at anytime so I'm not sure how someone could slip a Commander on top during a discard pile search.

Osho - Nice comparison to Merchant Ship Holunder9! This certainly needs a bump in price. I was hoping to keep this one at $4 Coin, but I'd certainly have to remove something. Do you think changing the on-play ability to either +1 Coin, +1 Buy or just +2 Coin would justify keeping it at $4 Coin?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 03:08:55 pm by Kudasai »
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Gazbag

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2018, 03:09:43 pm »
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You slip it 2nd from the top and then use the ability of the card in question (Harbinger, Settlers, Counting House, whatever) to topdeck the top card thus uncovering the commander. There is no way for the opponent to know that you reordered the commander to 2nd from the top (assuming you have good enough sleight of hand).
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2018, 03:37:25 pm »
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You slip it 2nd from the top and then use the ability of the card in question (Harbinger, Settlers, Counting House, whatever) to topdeck the top card thus uncovering the commander. There is no way for the opponent to know that you reordered the commander to 2nd from the top (assuming you have good enough sleight of hand).

Ahh, now I see what you're saying. This does create an issue. I don't see much of a way around this other than allowing a reshuffle of your discard after such cards are played. Not a solution I'm happy with, but I don't think it does anything catastrophic to the game. It certainly doesn't effect any other official cards. Thoughts?

EDIT This is off topic, but to answer a question you asked a few days ago about Astrolab's cost: Yes, the wonky 5 Coin 1* Debt is to prevent it from being gained. I don't think 5 Coin 0* Debt would work as it would just be 5 Coin.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 06:37:18 pm by Kudasai »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2018, 07:02:11 pm »
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The big problem I see with Osho is: how often is it actually going to be on the top of your discard? If you're drawing your whole deck (which you generally want to do) then it will only be in your discard if there's a way to discard stuff (which there often isn't.) The Commander ability can be used in slogs, but it will usually punish you there because you're likely to only play one terminal card per turn - plus, it's just a crummy Woodcutter on play.

Marshal solves this by discarding stuff on-play, which is nice. Overall it seems like all of the Commander cards will have to either be able to discard themselves or other cards in order for the mechanic to really be useful.

One final, minor thing: your dual-type formatting seems to be off. Why is the top border red almost completely covered by white instead of just red?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 07:05:57 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2018, 07:33:16 pm »
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The big problem I see with Osho is: how often is it actually going to be on the top of your discard? If you're drawing your whole deck (which you generally want to do) then it will only be in your discard if there's a way to discard stuff (which there often isn't.) The Commander ability can be used in slogs, but it will usually punish you there because you're likely to only play one terminal card per turn - plus, it's just a crummy Woodcutter on play.

Marshal solves this by discarding stuff on-play, which is nice. Overall it seems like all of the Commander cards will have to either be able to discard themselves or other cards in order for the mechanic to really be useful.

One final, minor thing: your dual-type formatting seems to be off. Why is the top border red almost completely covered by white instead of just red?

Everything you've said is true, but for now I'm calling these design choices instead of flaws. :) Cards that discard will definitely have a good synergy with Commander cards. This is why I have Marshal priced much higher despite it doing really nothing on play. I'm hoping to have a balanced Osho card at cost $3 since as you said it is at the mercy of where it ends up in your deck on the reshuffle. Draw cards will clash a bit, which for the moment I'm okay with. I just hope a player won't feel the Counting House Blues too often.

The border looks as I intended it to. It's custom so I took some liberty with it and ventured away from the normal look. I felt the new type needed a visual cue to remind player's that this card does stuff from your discard, but I didn't simple want to make a new shade of back since the Dominion color-wheel is getting a bit crowded. So I opted for the Action back with some Commander Banners added.
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2018, 02:08:01 am »
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Isle(v0.1) - I just wanted to point out that Gazbag has a cool, nearly identical card called Bastion. Although neither card influenced each other in any way, seeing Bastion certainly inspired me to post this card. I think both are cool concepts and wanted to make sure Gazbag got the deserved credit.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:12:30 am by Kudasai »
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Gazbag

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2018, 02:28:58 pm »
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Wow stop stealing my ideas! Jk, thanks for giving me a shout out, I appreciate it. Also I think it's great that you give people credit for feedback and changes you've made in the update history, I should have done that with my cards...

Something interesting I found while looking through the Adventures secret history was this:
Quote
Briefly I tried an Action-Victory card that put a card on your mat, and was worth VP based on the number of cards there. It just didn't give a new-enough experience; there's Island. It sounded like it would be a strategy but it usually wasn't, it was usually Island but maybe not worth the 2 VP.
It seems like Donald tried a similar thing, but not limited to Estates and not 1vp per card set aside. Also given that he is comparing it to Island maybe his version set itself aside too? It isn't really clear. Well it sounds different enough from Bastion/Isle from what I can gather.

Another thing about Isle is that exchange is a word with mechanical meaning in Dominion, because of this you wouldn't be able to exchange a Shelter or Heirloom with an Isle as they don't have a pile to return to. Not sure whether that's intentional or not, you could just say replace or something instead of exchange if you want to be able to do that.

I have to say that I still prefer Lumber Camp to Osho (I assume you retired Lumber Camp due to their similarity?), I thought it only giving +Card when you had Actions left to use it was a really clever way to avoid the feel-bad moments that terminal +1 Card can make while giving you a fun little hoop to jump through. It feels a lot less relevant on the overall package of Osho, more just an arbitrary way to tone down its power than an important part of the card.

Airship: I think I like this, it's very appealing early on making potion a good fit, but it could drop off hard later depending on the kingdom, which is a good thing. Although if lots of gaining is going on then multiples of these could still be good, you only have 5 cards to discard so after that there's no drawback to getting more of these down, would be like those rare Torturer games where you discard your hand and rely on Duration-draw to still have a turn. Not sure why an Airship needs Potion though, from a flavour perspective.
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Holunder9

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2018, 05:04:17 pm »
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Airship looks sound. Like with Cellar you have to discard before you draw which is significant liability.#
Isle doesn't excite me and the decisions is trivial. If you cannot trash your Estates you get Isle, if you can trash your Estates you don't mind, if there is trash-for-benefit Isle is bonkers (remodel into a Province, salvage for a huge amount of Coins, etc.).

Overall it seems like all of the Commander cards will have to either be able to discard themselves or other cards in order for the mechanic to really be useful.
This is false. You always discard your hand during your Clean-up phase and can arrange the order such that the Commander will be the top card of your discard pile. Actually that's the main point of Commanders: Durations that cannot be stacked but also don't miss shuffles.
Getting them into play via sifters will occure less frequently but is of course also neat as it creates non-trivial decisions (do you really want to discard it if it happens "late" in your turn or do you want to set up a better next turn?) and shows the great flexibility of the mechanic.
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Seprix

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2018, 05:15:51 pm »
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A lot of these cards are highly creative and I for sure enjoy the elegant boldness of them.

Army seems insanely strong, probably too strong. It could cost more.

Heir is cute, but does nothing unless you’re already drawing deck and then it’s only about the same as Wine Merchant that can be triggered only once. Pretty meh on it, it could cost cheaper. Very weak.

Royal Decree is very strong, and I like the attack aspect of it for sure.

Moon Shrine seems horrifically weak. It’s a delayed Silver, dead on play since you can’t use the Coffers until next turn and even potentially helping the opponent score VP. It’s slow and weak. I would probably never buy this in the current form.

Slumlord is awesome.

Stadium is really wonky, and it’s essentially a gamble. Also couldn’t you technically reveal no tokens, and then reveal a copper, since double 0 is 0? Might want a clause for that, such as a “if you added any tokens, at the start of the next turn…” Anyways it’s cute but not sure if it’s worth keeping around, it seems meh.

Lost Temple is a busted thinner, pretty much auto-open that since it’s a Chapel. And then it’s useful afterwards too! You only really want one ever though, no reason to get more than one.

Industrious Village seems pretty strong, like stronger than $4 strong. It really could cost $5.

Old Witch is interesting!

What the heck, Mimic is so damn weird that I would want to try it, although it’s presence basically makes any three piling infinitely harder, so it could be a serious board decider, depending on how good the Mimics are.

I had some version of Crane without the bottom part, and you made a far more elegant version.

Astrolab is still too strong I think.

Yurt Village is so weird, but an interesting weird.

Holy shit Marshal is a crazy mechanic idea. I love it. Osho, no idea what to think of it. The main worry with this mechanic though, is how slow it could be.

Isle is really cool, especially the part where you can just straight up decide which starting card to lose.

Airship is a suicide card in any remotely engine board, and it is thusly really really bad.

Treaty has some of the clunkiest wording. You need to find a way to shorten this, which might include scrapping the gain a $5 thing. Also this is so Kingmaking in 3P or above, so watch out with that. Might need a total redesign or scrapping.

Blockade is weird. You’ll just cover the Province pile and whatever two cards you deem will be gained, which you will almost certainly be right. And oh shoot, maybe you miss one and the opponent gets there first. At the end of all of this laborious logging, you end up with at most… 3 VP. Yeah, this is a terrible Landmark. Scrap. It’s a lot of work and it doesn’t seem fun to play with.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 05:17:29 pm by Seprix »
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2018, 07:59:05 pm »
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Wow stop stealing my ideas! Jk, thanks for giving me a shout out, I appreciate it. Also I think it's great that you give people credit for feedback and changes you've made in the update history, I should have done that with my cards...

Something interesting I found while looking through the Adventures secret history was this:
Quote
Briefly I tried an Action-Victory card that put a card on your mat, and was worth VP based on the number of cards there. It just didn't give a new-enough experience; there's Island. It sounded like it would be a strategy but it usually wasn't, it was usually Island but maybe not worth the 2 VP.
It seems like Donald tried a similar thing, but not limited to Estates and not 1vp per card set aside. Also given that he is comparing it to Island maybe his version set itself aside too? It isn't really clear. Well it sounds different enough from Bastion/Isle from what I can gather.

Another thing about Isle is that exchange is a word with mechanical meaning in Dominion, because of this you wouldn't be able to exchange a Shelter or Heirloom with an Isle as they don't have a pile to return to. Not sure whether that's intentional or not, you could just say replace or something instead of exchange if you want to be able to do that.

I have to say that I still prefer Lumber Camp to Osho (I assume you retired Lumber Camp due to their similarity?), I thought it only giving +Card when you had Actions left to use it was a really clever way to avoid the feel-bad moments that terminal +1 Card can make while giving you a fun little hoop to jump through. It feels a lot less relevant on the overall package of Osho, more just an arbitrary way to tone down its power than an important part of the card.

Thanks, I'm just glad someone is reading that stuff! :) I actually had planned for Isle to work only with Copper and Estates, but just thought last night how it was a bummer that it could interact with Heirlooms. Well I guess my problem fixed itself! Thanks for checking though. I guess I've misunderstood the exchange rule all this time, but it actually worked out in my favor on this one.

Yes, I cut Lumber Camp because (1) Osho seems to achieve what I wanted out of Lumber Camp (a bland card that got better with Village support) in a more entertaining way; and (2) I have another version of Lumber Camp that I think I'm going to use instead. It's wacky and involves States. Excited to share it, but I need to get some playtesting on it. I would love to see the 2nd half of Lumber Mill implemented on another card though. Any ideas on that? The effect did seems more suited for Lumber Camp, but I'm using it on Osho more to distinguish itself and it's play-style from the other Commander cards. I could all be a bust though. If I go back on it I'll be sure to give you credit! :P
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 08:00:27 pm by Kudasai »
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2018, 08:08:59 pm »
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Isle doesn't excite me and the decisions is trivial. If you cannot trash your Estates you get Isle, if you can trash your Estates you don't mind, if there is trash-for-benefit Isle is bonkers (remodel into a Province, salvage for a huge amount of Coins, etc.).

I don't think the decision will ever likely be whether to exchange for Isle or not, but whether you exchange an Estate or Copper.
-Exchanging for an Estate secures your buy power at 7 and gives you the standard openings, but you have added an Estate back into the Supply both reducing your Isle point potential and giving your opponents more potential Estates to pick up.
-Exchanging for a Copper makes your Isles more likely to hit Estates and will likely be worth more, but reduces your buy power to 6, which on some boards could be quite terrible.

I'm not sure how I feel about Isle's interaction with trash for benefit cards yet. Part of me thinks it's really cool, but I don't want it to make games too wonky. Will have to play-test this.
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2018, 08:29:24 pm »
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Army seems insanely strong, probably too strong. It could cost more.

Moon Shrine seems horrifically weak. Itís a delayed Silver, dead on play since you canít use the Coffers until next turn and even potentially helping the opponent score VP. Itís slow and weak. I would probably never buy this in the current form.

Stadium is really wonky, and itís essentially a gamble. Also couldnít you technically reveal no tokens, and then reveal a copper, since double 0 is 0? Might want a clause for that, such as a ďif you added any tokens, at the start of the next turnÖĒ Anyways itís cute but not sure if itís worth keeping around, it seems meh.

Lost Temple is a busted thinner, pretty much auto-open that since itís a Chapel. And then itís useful afterwards too! You only really want one ever though, no reason to get more than one.

Treaty has some of the clunkiest wording. You need to find a way to shorten this, which might include scrapping the gain a $5 thing. Also this is so Kingmaking in 3P or above, so watch out with that. Might need a total redesign or scrapping.

Blockade is weird. Youíll just cover the Province pile and whatever two cards you deem will be gained, which you will almost certainly be right. And oh shoot, maybe you miss one and the opponent gets there first. At the end of all of this laborious logging, you end up with at mostÖ 3 VP. Yeah, this is a terrible Landmark. Scrap. Itís a lot of work and it doesnít seem fun to play with.

Thanks for the comments Seprix! I appreciate you touching on all of the cards. I'll keep my replies strictly to the negative feedback to be concise. :)

-Army: Very strong, but only after much building. You can only get about 3 cards on your mat before a good engine starts greening. I think $7 Coin and above would make this unusable, but I can try it sometime.
-Moon Shrine: Getting the +2 Coffers is incredibly good. You are putting VP out there for your opponents, but the person with a good Coffer store is usually in a better position to green. That's why I had to make this one conditional, giving only +1 Coffers for most of the mid-game.
-Stadium: Yes, probably should have called this one Gamble Hall or something like that. You can put zero tokens and reveal a Copper, but it would just give you $0 Coin, so I don't think an extra clause needs to be added.
-Lost Temple: Probably should cost $6 or above, but I kept it artificially low (like chapel) so everyone has a chance to open it. It can be a Lost City, but the cantrip +Buys to make that happen are few and far between. So most games it's a Chapel that can hide itself. Strong, but $4 Coin seems fair given Chapel's price of $2 Coin.
-Treaty: Yes, the wording needs some attention. I had it in a nice spot, but had to make some hasty changes.
-Blockade: This only effects Kingdom cards, so Provinces and all other standard Victory cards are excluded along with standard Treasures. It's a bit weird at first, but rewards good planning. It takes a few minutes to do, but I personally think a board that doesn't take at least a few minutes to think on is a simple, bad board to begin with. This punishes people who go for the power cards and rewards those with creative engines.
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Kudasai

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Re: Kudasai's Random Dominion Cards
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2018, 10:06:53 pm »
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Airship: I think I like this, it's very appealing early on making potion a good fit, but it could drop off hard later depending on the kingdom, which is a good thing. Although if lots of gaining is going on then multiples of these could still be good, you only have 5 cards to discard so after that there's no drawback to getting more of these down, would be like those rare Torturer games where you discard your hand and rely on Duration-draw to still have a turn. Not sure why an Airship needs Potion though, from a flavour perspective.

I think if an Airship were to exist around the 1400's (and I don't believe they did) it's means of lift would likely be hot-air heated by some sort of chemical reaction, hence the Potion flavor. Beyond that I like the tough choices a player has to make when discarding. Do you discard your Potion right away and hope to redraw it, or do you hang on to it to hopefully get $3 Coin and a Potion. The latter could very well be end up being a $2 Coin and a Potion dud hand. I also like how Potions solidify a players build path. If a player opens Potion, it may trick their opponent into rushing +Buys needlessly. At least I hope these kinds of situations arise.
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