Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13  All

Author Topic: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities  (Read 7058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #125 on: July 07, 2018, 11:08:17 pm »
0

Okay, now Agora's probably OP, but I'm going to try:

Quote
Agora - Action $5
+2 Actions
+$2
The first time you play a Silver this turn, +1 Card
-
When you discard this other than during Clean-up, you may reveal it to gain a Silver into your hand.

So now it's Grand Market strong, but only if you play a Silver. If you don't, it's probably somewhere around $3.5. If you discard it, it's still the bad option, but maybe you'll be excited about it a little.

This is still pending tests.

Edit: Wow I must have been tired when I said that... nobody wants cards in their buy phase, Token (now Gamepiece) not withstanding.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 11:56:54 pm by Neirai the Forgiven »
Logged

ClouduHieh

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
  • Shuffle iT Username: ClouduHieh
  • Respect: +53
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #126 on: July 08, 2018, 07:35:26 pm »
+1

Hmm not really like grand market. After all you are drawing a card during your buy phase. Unless itís a treasure itís useless also, It could be hurting your next turn. What if itís an action then you an action card that you could of played on your next turn.

If you really want it to be useful, why donít you make it like villa.

When you buy a villa it lets you go back to your action phase with an action. And with villa going into your hand. You then can play it.

Why donít you have agora do this. When you play a silver during your buy phase go back to your action phase and +1 Card. Then this way you go back to your action phase youíll have an extra action and another card in your hand. Which may be an action which youíll now be able to play, and then if it was treasure you can go back to your buy phase with a treasure to add.

How about that?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 07:38:42 pm by ClouduHieh »
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 551
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +747
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #127 on: July 08, 2018, 09:01:53 pm »
+1

You could just make Agora give +1 Card if you reveal a Silver from your hand. Obviously it's a bit different because you can't draw the Silver later and still get +1 card but I think it does the job well enough? It's also nice because the reaction puts the Silver into hand, so it has an aesthetic thing going for it too.
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2018, 01:46:59 pm »
0

I'm actually toying with making the Silver rule "Discard a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards." It makes it like a Lost City, which I don't want too many of, but the net power level is less. It makes you have to gamble, do you want a silver bird in the hand, or two in the bush?
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 551
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +747
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2018, 03:30:16 pm »
+1

I'm actually toying with making the Silver rule "Discard a Silver from your hand for +2 Cards." It makes it like a Lost City, which I don't want too many of, but the net power level is less. It makes you have to gamble, do you want a silver bird in the hand, or two in the bush?
It still isn't increasing hand size, so I wouldn't say it's a Lost City. Also means you can't just get +1 Card from all the Agora's once you draw a Silver so should be more interesting?
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #130 on: July 10, 2018, 04:08:38 pm »
0

I've tested this, the +2 Cards if you discard a Silver. It seems decent but because you don't normally get cards from Agora it's hard to pull off without a lot of Silver.

Overall I like it.
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2018, 02:42:03 pm »
0

So, basically cards are finished now, since I'm in talks with a printer to create a few physicals. What's done is done!

You can see the current versions on the gallery now.
Speak up in the next 24 hours or so if you spot any game-breaking bugs! The most recent changes are Stronghold and Profiteer.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4754
  • Respect: +5094
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #132 on: July 12, 2018, 04:23:18 pm »
+1

Fan cards are never finished!

For better or worse, they will never feel the sweet, sweet release of death.

Thanar

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
  • Respect: +137
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #133 on: July 12, 2018, 04:34:23 pm »
0

Speak up in the next 24 hours or so if you spot any game-breaking bugs!

Great cards! I didn't find anything I'd consider game-breaking, but I did go overthem with a "fine-toothed comb" and found the following typos, wording improvement suggestions:

Discovery - "When you flip this face-up" There is no mention of ever putting the card face down. Is that somewhere in additional rules? I'm not sure whether it should be put in the card text itself.

Gamepiece Ė Possible wording improvement: "When you discard this on your turn, and not during Clean-up"

Inspector Ė For accountability the other players need to reveal the card from their hand before putting it on their deck. (See Bureaucrat: "Each other player reveals a Victory card from their hand and puts it onto their deck (or reveals a hand with no Victory cards).") The word reveal also makes it more clear that the card is coming from their hand. Also, instead of using "copy of that card", I'd suggest using "matches". (See Doctor: "Name a card. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Trash the matches.")

Suggested text: "Reveal 2 cards from your hand, then discard them. Each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals one that matches one of your revealed cards and puts it onto their deck (or reveals they can't)."

Moundbuilder Village - Since all cards in play can be discarded at once, I think this means you can set aside a card that was just played this turn and during Clean-up was discarded at the same time as Moundbuilder Village. This may be a point to make in any additional printed rules/explanation for the card.

Profiteer - The phrase "cards in your hand and deck cost 0 or 1 more" might be more clear if you add the word  "all" before "cards".

Riches - The period should be placed outside the final parenthesis "(including other Riches)."

Shipwreck - Incorrect word order in last sentence. Should be "When you buy this for 4Ö"

Stronghold - The text is missing a word. It should say: "return to your Action phase first."

Tomb Raider - The period should be placed outside the final parenthesis "(or reveals they can't)."
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #134 on: July 12, 2018, 05:34:44 pm »
0

Wow, Thanar, good eye. I must have been panicking or something when I did that last render of Shipwreck and Stronghold.

Discovery's additional rules are part of the "Shuffle Into" rules.

Gamepiece I'll take into consideration. It's true that Clean-up isn't a single instant in time.

Inspector - good eye. I missed this when I converted it from discard to put on top.

Moundbuilder - I just double-checked, it's there.

Profiteer - possibly, I'll think about it, look at it, see what feels best.

Riches and Tomb Raider -- NO! I'm an MLA snob! Okay, I'll sleep on it.
Logged

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 551
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +747
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #135 on: July 12, 2018, 06:25:01 pm »
0

Riches and Tomb Raider -- NO! I'm an MLA snob! Okay, I'll sleep on it.

To be consistent with existing cards the period should be outside, see Bureaucrat or Gardens for reference. Inspector, Moundbuilder Village, Profiteer and maybe more I missed should be changed too.
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #136 on: July 13, 2018, 10:07:00 am »
0

Riches and Tomb Raider -- NO! I'm an MLA snob! Okay, I'll sleep on it.

To be consistent with existing cards the period should be outside, see Bureaucrat or Gardens for reference. Inspector, Moundbuilder Village, Profiteer and maybe more I missed should be changed too.

Fun fact, to be consistent with official cards, the period should be outside if the sentence is not the last sentence on the card, but inside if it is -- see Events cards, or Not In Supply cards.

I thought this was something that changed over time (older cards, outside; new ones, inside) but sets like Dark Ages have both insides and outsides.

In that case, Moundbuilder Village and Tomb Raider changes but the other cards stay the same.
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2018, 12:02:19 am »
0

It is my (likely naive) belief that I will no longer be changing these cards.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4754
  • Respect: +5094
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2018, 03:33:18 am »
0

You are free to not change them anymore, but that doesn't mean they are finished 😛

Gamepiece for instance is really weird and I have a hard time imagining a deck you want it in. For Artifact, what's the difference between paying and not paying 0? Graveyard still leads to infinite points with Watchtower, Tomb and Inheritance (suggestion: "a card costing more than it" - anyhow, this is the most nit-picky one). If the number of Curses is too low, Pharaoh will give the second-to-last player two Curses, and none to the last. Prospector and Profiteer are very similar in both art and name. If I play several Profiteers, how do they stack? And so on...

The main question however is: How thoroughly did you test these?

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2018, 10:08:36 am »
0

You are free to not change them anymore, but that doesn't mean they are finished 😛

Gamepiece for instance is really weird and I have a hard time imagining a deck you want it in. For Artifact, what's the difference between paying and not paying 0? Graveyard still leads to infinite points with Watchtower, Tomb and Inheritance (suggestion: "a card costing more than it" - anyhow, this is the most nit-picky one). If the number of Curses is too low, Pharaoh will give the second-to-last player two Curses, and none to the last. Prospector and Profiteer are very similar in both art and name. If I play several Profiteers, how do they stack? And so on...

The main question however is: How thoroughly did you test these?

Gamepiece, I've played with and have had some success with it, but then again I'm at my (relatively low) play level.
Paying zero with Artifact nets you a Copper, which you can put into play. Not paying doesn't.
Graveyard can no longer gain Graveyards.
You're right about Pharaoh. I'm okay with that.
I'm not too worried about the art and name similarity.
The way that Profiteers stack is detailed in the rulebook. It's why I detailed that the cards cost both $0 more and $1 more; two profiteers cause the cards to cost $0 more and $1 more and $2 more, etc.

I'm aware that I could spend the rest of my life refining the cards, trust me! But at some point I need to commit to the project being finished. This was supposed to be a 1-year project. It's already in the third quarter of its second year!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 07:09:43 pm by Neirai the Forgiven »
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2018, 10:11:52 am »
0

Sorry, to respond to the actual question:

I've played probably a thousand games with my testgroup over the last 19 months. I'd like more testing on Profiteer, since the idea works in my head but it's a fairly recent idea, and I've only had a half-dozen games with it since adding the passive clause. It seems good, but I'm not in the loop with extremely high-calibre players.

BTW, when I said I was probably not changing the cards anymore, I meant "before printing them" and not as a response to your earlier statement, Asper :) It totally looks like it, though.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 10:14:52 am by Neirai the Forgiven »
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2018, 11:46:34 am »
0

Gamepiece for instance is really weird and I have a hard time imagining a deck you want it in.

Of course, no sooner do I say that I'm not going to change it, then I find myself toying with this improvement:

Quote
Gamepiece - Treasure Reaction - $3
Reveal the top card of your deck. If it's a Treasure, draw it and discard a card.
Otherwise, discard it or put it back.
$1
-
When you discard this on your turn other than during Clean-up, reveal it for $1.

I think this lives up to the goal "A lesser version of Venture that goes will with Tactician and works as a sifter in the Buy phase" a bit better.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7011
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9698
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2018, 12:10:45 pm »
+1

Is it too late for suggestions?
Logged

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2018, 12:31:28 pm »
0

Is it too late for suggestions?

No, it's not too late for suggestions. I will take them all into consideration for sure, since I haven't ordered the physical copies yet.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:38:54 pm by Neirai the Forgiven »
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4754
  • Respect: +5094
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2018, 12:41:00 pm »
+1

You are free to not change them anymore, but that doesn't mean they are finished 😛

Gamepiece for instance is really weird and I have a hard time imagining a deck you want it in. For Artifact, what's the difference between paying and not paying 0? Graveyard still leads to infinite points with Watchtower, Tomb and Inheritance (suggestion: "a card costing more than it" - anyhow, this is the most nit-picky one). If the number of Curses is too low, Pharaoh will give the second-to-last player two Curses, and none to the last. Prospector and Profiteer are very similar in both art and name. If I play several Profiteers, how do they stack? And so on...

The main question however is: How thoroughly did you test these?

Gamepiece, I've played with and have had some success with it, but then again I'm at my (relatively low) play level.
Paying zero with Artifact nets you a Copper, which you can put into play. Not paying doesn't.
Graveyard can no longer gain Graveyards.
You're right about Pharaoh. I'm okay with that.
I'm not too worried about the art and name similarity.
The way that Profiteers stack is detailed in the rulebook. It's why I detailed that the cards cost both $0 more and $1 more; two profiteers cause the cards to cost $0 more and $1 more and $2 more, etc.

I'm aware that I could spend the rest of my life refining the cards, trust me! But at some point I need to commit to the project being finished. This was supposed to be a 1-year project. It's already in the third quarter of its second year!

One might argue that there is no difference between paying and not paying 0$, given that you can't overpay 0$ for Ruins, either. I already gave my suggestion of "pay any amount of $. You may gain..." to fix this.
Graveyard can gain Estates and Estates can gain Graveyards. With Tomb, Watchtower and Inheritance, you can trash one, then trash the other to get infinite points.

Anyhow, I wasn't aware of how long you have been working on this. That said, I definitely see that these are not just some throw-away ideas, but that you put quite a bit of thought into it. I guess it's mostly the way you present this, with your official unofficial twitter and all, that makes it seem like you were a tiny bit too optimistic about the state of your cards.

Your Gamepiece change for example is a huge improvement in my book, although I'd probably make it peek at the card and then just giving you the choice to put it in your hand (not draw it) at the cost of discarding a card, regardless of type. But that's really minimal (except the "put in hand" thing, that's standard rules).

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2018, 12:57:06 pm »
0

You are free to not change them anymore, but that doesn't mean they are finished 😛

Gamepiece for instance is really weird and I have a hard time imagining a deck you want it in. For Artifact, what's the difference between paying and not paying 0? Graveyard still leads to infinite points with Watchtower, Tomb and Inheritance (suggestion: "a card costing more than it" - anyhow, this is the most nit-picky one). If the number of Curses is too low, Pharaoh will give the second-to-last player two Curses, and none to the last. Prospector and Profiteer are very similar in both art and name. If I play several Profiteers, how do they stack? And so on...

The main question however is: How thoroughly did you test these?

Gamepiece, I've played with and have had some success with it, but then again I'm at my (relatively low) play level.
Paying zero with Artifact nets you a Copper, which you can put into play. Not paying doesn't.
Graveyard can no longer gain Graveyards.
You're right about Pharaoh. I'm okay with that.
I'm not too worried about the art and name similarity.
The way that Profiteers stack is detailed in the rulebook. It's why I detailed that the cards cost both $0 more and $1 more; two profiteers cause the cards to cost $0 more and $1 more and $2 more, etc.

I'm aware that I could spend the rest of my life refining the cards, trust me! But at some point I need to commit to the project being finished. This was supposed to be a 1-year project. It's already in the third quarter of its second year!

One might argue that there is no difference between paying and not paying 0$, given that you can't overpay 0$ for Ruins, either. I already gave my suggestion of "pay any amount of $. You may gain..." to fix this.
Graveyard can gain Estates and Estates can gain Graveyards. With Tomb, Watchtower and Inheritance, you can trash one, then trash the other to get infinite points.

Anyhow, I wasn't aware of how long you have been working on this. That said, I definitely see that these are not just some throw-away ideas, but that you put quite a bit of thought into it. I guess it's mostly the way you present this, with your official unofficial twitter and all, that makes it seem like you were a tiny bit too optimistic about the state of your cards.

Your Gamepiece change for example is a huge improvement in my book, although I'd probably make it peek at the card and then just giving you the choice to put it in your hand (not draw it) at the cost of discarding a card, regardless of type. But that's really minimal (except the "put in hand" thing, that's standard rules).

You're right about Graveyard, I will change it to prevent shenanigans.
You're likely also right about Gamepiece, look at is mostly worthwhile for the simplicity, and people can self-regulate. If they want to discard coppers, then they only get $1 from Gamepiece. That's likely okay.

I left the (including $0) on Artifact because my playtesters kept not understanding that they could gain Coppers with it without paying money, or that they could *not* gain Coppers with it. I'd rather it not say that, since it's more awkward than just "any amount of..."
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4754
  • Respect: +5094
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #146 on: July 17, 2018, 05:59:52 am »
0

I left the (including $0) on Artifact because my playtesters kept not understanding that they could gain Coppers with it without paying money, or that they could *not* gain Coppers with it. I'd rather it not say that, since it's more awkward than just "any amount of..."

Hum, I understand that that's an issue... In the end I guess it's fine.

Also, your rules sheet kind of makes me want to do one, myself.  :) I'll try to give some feedback on it soon.

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #147 on: July 17, 2018, 10:00:08 am »
0

Perfect, thank you!

Also I'd love to know how all this time I've had Gamepiece's rules text above its value and not noticed ;)
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4754
  • Respect: +5094
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #148 on: July 17, 2018, 10:12:10 am »
0

Am I right to believe that after playing Profiteer, I can gain the entire Border Village pile at once?

Neirai the Forgiven

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 289
  • Respect: +113
    • View Profile
Re: (Art Reveals within!) Dominion: Antiquities
« Reply #149 on: July 17, 2018, 10:20:24 am »
0

Am I right to believe that after playing Profiteer, I can gain the entire Border Village pile at once?

I *knew* there was a reason I originally restricted it to cards in your hand and deck. Back it goes!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 8 ... 13  All
 

Page created in 0.099 seconds with 20 queries.